New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Exodo]

He actually doesn't use a shield. That's just his FE Awakening art, and all old FE characters have art that conform to the class that they're use in Awakening. For example, Roy is modified to look like the Hero class.

Well i think that could make him kinda unique ans could be used as reference that class.

 

[Anti Guy]

Well i think that could make him kinda unique ans could be used as reference that class.

You'd have to play the game to understand, but it doesn't make sense to do that. Characters like Ephraim are downloadable guest characters that have no role in the story. There's no point in making a reference to the class he's using (Great Knight) because the game can't accommodate his original class (Lord). To do the character justice, you'd base him on the form he uses in his own game, not one where he appears as a downloadable cameo.

 

[Xermo]

But Ness didn't have PK Cross or EK Tether in his games though.

Pk flash, get it right. And he did have it in Earthbound, it was one of the only unique offensive PSI utilized by him aside from PSI Rockin'.

The hell is Pk tether

 

[Exodo]

You'd have to play the game to understand, but it doesn't make sense to do that. Characters like Ephraim are downloadable guest characters that have no role in the story. There's no point in making a reference to the class he's using (Great Knight) because the game can't accommodate his original class (Lord). To do the character justice, you'd base him on the form he uses in his own game, not one where he appears as a downloadable cameo.

Well i guess your right.

 

[Vigilante]

Andy is more important than Sami, why do you throw him under the bus @ Vigilante ?

I actually do not mind Andy. The reaosn iw as thinking of Sami is because everyone is mentioning her here, lol. I have not played Advance Wars, but form the information I gathered, it ssems she is an infantry unit, so she fights on the ground without the use of vehicles. Nevertheless, while I neve rplayed any Advance Wars games, I am kind of interested of one day getting to it.

Also, Soren is the best mage.

So why hasn't anyone proposed Old man from the original Legend of Zelda yet? XD

 

[Rasgar]

I actually do not mind Andy. The reaosn iw as thinking of Sami is because everyone is mentioning her here, lol. I have not played Advance Wars, but form the information I gathered, it ssems she is an infantry unit, so she fights on the ground without the use of vehicles. Nevertheless, while I neve rplayed any Advance Wars games, I am kind of interested of one day getting to it.

Actually, the characters in Advance Wars are simply commanders who order around generic units, like the ones that come from the assist trophy. From a gameplay standpoint, none of them are actually in combat. Movesets for them would basically be created from scratch like Captain Falcon. Sami is often shown with military weapons in her artwork though.

 

[Anti Guy]

I actually do not mind Andy. The reaosn iw as thinking of Sami is because everyone is mentioning her here, lol. I have not played Advance Wars, but form the information I gathered, it ssems she is an infantry unit, so she fights on the ground without the use of vehicles. Nevertheless, while I neve rplayed any Advance Wars games, I am kind of interested of one day getting to it.

Also, Soren is the best mage.

So why hasn't anyone proposed Old man from the original Legend of Zelda yet? XD

She's actually a commanding officer, just like Andy. CO's don't fight in the game, but grant their armies stat bonuses and special abilities. You start off with Andy in the first two games (and the first game revolves around him, which is why he's considered the main character), and Sami and Max are two other COs that you can choose from in the same country/army. The main character shifts to a new CO, Jake, in the third game (probably to add a little variation), while Sami and Max are still supporting some. Andy is an unlockable.

 

[Xermo]

On a side note though, sami does specialize in infantry units.

 

[ChronoBound]

On a side note though, sami does specialize in infantry units.

That and the character is often depicted with realistic military weapons in all of her official artwork, and is a member of Orange Star's special forces. Like mentioned earlier, the transition for her to become a derivative of Snake is a lot more believable than any other Advance Wars character (or at least those that qualify for Project M).

 

[Spleenhunter]

Pk flash, get it right. And he did have it in Earthbound, it was one of the only unique offensive PSI utilized by him aside from PSI Rockin'.

The hell is Pk tether

I am well aware of the names of the moves, but I purposely butchered the names to make my post more interesting than, "Some characters have moves that aren't canon in their games" which was the point of my post. Granted, I haven't played any of the Mother series, so I might be wrong about what specific abilities he used.

 

[Raijinken]

I am well aware of the names of the moves, but I purposely butchered the names to make my post more interesting than, "Some characters have moves that aren't canon in their games" which was the point of my post. Granted, I haven't played any of the Mother series, so I might be wrong about what specific abilities he used.

I think the general trend with Smash is that as long as the move appears in the game somewhere, it may be stretched to "fair game". After all, Zelda never uses the three Goddess powers, and Marth and Roy used a Rapier as their default weapons, yet his attack animation was the overhead swing due to how the first game animated Marth's attacks. Same for Ness/Lucas. Since the games term learning a new PSI/PK as "Realized the power of", then it could be reasonable to imagine that Paula/Kumatora helped Ness/Lucas realize the power of PK Fire/Thunder/Freeze/Starstorm/Magnet.

Besides, if everything had to be strict to the games, Pokemon would only get four moves each, and that would be miserable.

 

[Shin F.]

I think Andy makes more sense as an Advance Wars character. If a character is seen as the face of a game / series, they should get first dibs.

And having the weaponry for the moveset isn't a very good reason (IMO) to choose a supporting character over a main character. If it was, then we wouldn't be playing as Ness or Lucas. We'd be playing as Paula and Kumatora, since those are the characters who actually fight with the techniques Smash Ness and Lucas do. That's not the case, though. Just like Ness was chosen over Paula despite primarily using her moves, just like Lucas was chosen over Kumatora, I think Andy would be a better choice than Sami simply because he is the closest thing the series has to a main character.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Andy makes more sense as an Advance Wars character. If a character is seen as the face of a game / series, they should get first dibs.
.

Andy is to Eliwood as Sami is to Lyn.

That should clear things up.

 

[Shin F.]

Andy is to Eliwood as Sami is to Lyn.

That should clear things up.

I've never played Fire Emblem, so that doesn't really mean much to me. That's why I used the Earthbound analogy.

 

[ChronoBound]

I've never played Fire Emblem, so that doesn't really mean much to me. That's why I used the Earthbound analogy.

I have played both EarthBound and Mother 3, and your analogy is not apt to describe the roles.

Sami is basically Lyn.

 

[Shin F.]

I have played both EarthBound and Mother 3, and your analogy is not apt to describe the roles.

Sami is basically Lyn.

Would you mind expanding on why it's not apt? Because from where I'm standing, it seems like the same thing. Not trying to be a nuisance, I just really want to know.

Like I said, I've never played Fire Emblem. Telling me "Sami is Lyn" has no meaning to me.

 

[ChronoBound]

Like I said, I've never played Fire Emblem. Telling me "Sami is Lyn" has no meaning to me.

Kumatora and Paula are not more important than other party members or the main protagonist of their respective games (Ness/Lucas).

In Advance Wars 1, Andy is overall the most important CO, but Sami and Max also have a lot of promience in that game (next most important COs protagonists after Andy). In the sequel, all three of those COs are basically equal in importance. While in Dual Strike, Max and Sami have a role in the main story, while Andy is relegated to being an unlockable only character.

Its the same with FE7, Lyn's campaign is basically a tutorial, whereas the mainstory to FE7 (the Black Fang and Nergal) has either Eliwood or Hector as the lord, with Lyn having a supporting role in the main campaign, but below one of the two lords (depending on the mode, it either has Hector/Lyn or Eliwood/Lyn as the major supporting characters).

Like I said, it would be a lot easier to understand if you played FE7.

However, Sami/Lyn don't compare to Paula and Kumatora in terms of overall importance.

 

[Shin F.]

Kumatora and Paula are not more important than other party members or the main protagonist of their respective games (Ness/Lucas).

In Advance Wars 1, Andy is overall the most important CO, but Sami and Max also have a lot of promience in that game (next most important COs protagonists after Andy). In the sequel, all three of those COs are basically equal in importance. While in Dual Strike, Max and Sami have a role in the main story, while Andy is relegated to being an unlockable only character.

Kumatora? Perhaps. But you can't say Paula's not as important as Ness without seriously downplaying everything she did - it was her prayers that defeated Giygas, and it was she who psychically called Jeff to rescue her and Ness in Threed. She is very important. In fact, defeating Giygas with her prayers is arguably more important than anything Ness did in the entire game. Importance and Movepool are trumped by Main Character in this case.

So Andy is the most important CO in the first game, is equal to Sami and Mac in the third, and is a hidden unlockable in the third. That still means Andy's been the main character of a game while Sami has only been support.

Okay, regarding the Fire Emblem argument, basically you're saying Sami is like Lyn because although they aren't the main character of their game, they're popular. I almost feel bad for pointing this out, but that's actually an argument against Sami since Lyn's not actually playable in Smash, where Marth (the face of the series) is.

That doesn't mean I'd be against Sami entirely or anything like that, and of course Project M doesn't have to follow the same formulas Smash does, but if they do follow the same kind of process the official games do, then I've never seen an instance in Smash where a Support Character is chosen over a Main Character.

 

[ChronoBound]

Kumatora? Perhaps. But you can't say Paula's not as important as Ness without seriously downplaying everything she did - it was her prayers that defeated Giygas, and it was she who psychically called Jeff to rescue her and Ness in Threed. She is very important. In fact, defeating Giygas with her prayers is arguably more important than anything Ness did in the entire game. Importance and Movepool are trumped by Main Character in this case.
.

Paula basically becomes non-existent storyline wise after you recruit her. Heck, all the party members in EarthBound basically don't speak much after you end up recruiting them. That is one of the main things Mother 3 has over EarthBound. Additionally in EarthBound, none of the party members really have discernible personalities. They are just kind of "there" after you recruit them. That is what I mean by storyline importance, you just kind of forget about them.

Also, Andy is nowhere near the face of Advance Wars as Marth is to Fire Emblem. Marth has four games to himself and himself alone (arguably he might share FE12 with the My Unit), whereas Andy at best arguably has one, and he is not even more popular than other COs from his series. He is basically like Eliwood, he may be overall the most important CO to AW1, but is less popular than both Sami and Max, just like how Hector and Lyn are more popular than Eliwood.

Like I said, if you were a FE fan, this would be a lot easier to grasp.

 

[Shin F.]

Paula basically becomes non-existent storyline wise after you recruit her. Heck, all the party members in EarthBound basically don't speak much after you end up recruiting them. That is one of the main things Mother 3 has over EarthBound. Additionally in EarthBound, none of the party members really have discernible personalities. They are just kind of "there" after you recruit them. That is what I mean by storyline importance, you just kind of forget about them.

Being forgettable is entirely dependent on the player. I found every single Earthbound character to be quite memorable. Paula, in particular, had just as many story roles as Ness did.

It seems like you're saying Sami is a more worthy choice because of her personality? Correct me if I'm wrong about that, I may be reading too much into that statement about them having no personalities, but if so, then that's not the kind of thing that really shows through in Smash.

Like I said, though, I don't think Sami would be a bad choice. I think she'd be great. But going by how characters were picked for previous Smash games, Andy just fits the bill. Of course, Project M isn't an official Smash game, so superior popularity is probably good enough that she'd get chosen anyways.

 

[ChronoBound]

Being forgettable is entirely dependent on the player. I found every single Earthbound character to be quite memorable. Paula, in particular, had just as many story roles as Ness did.

It seems like you're saying Sami is a more worthy choice because of her personality? Correct me if I'm wrong about that, I may be reading too much into that statement about them having no personalities, but if so, then that's not the kind of thing that really shows through in Smash.

Like I said, though, I don't think Sami would be a bad choice. I think she'd be great. But going by how characters were picked for previous Smash games, Andy just fits the bill. Of course, Project M isn't an official Smash game, so superior popularity is probably good enough that she'd get chosen anyways.

No, I am not advocating Sami based on personality.

I am saying that just being the most prominent in a game like Advance Wars (especially when the main protagonist is not particularly well-liked), especially in later games when the supporting protagonists have an equal or greater role, should not be used against Sami.

If you are going to use the "she isn't the most important" line against Sami, you might as well also use it against Lyn, and unlike Lyn, Sami does have equal or greater importance in later Advance Wars storylines.

Also, as others have previously mentioned, Sami's connection with infantry and her canonical depiction of:
1. Being a member of Orange Star's specical forces.
2. Being depicted with realistic weapons.

Makes her plausible to have a derivative of Snake's moveset, and considering how the Project M team is pressed for time and staff, this makes her particularly atttractive, especially in comparison to other potential new series newcomers.

 

[Xermo]

Heck, all the party members in EarthBound basically don't speak much after you end up recruiting them. That is one of the main things Mother 3 has over EarthBound.

Not to butt in or anything, buuuuut...

You can't say "character X doesn't speak, therefor they aren't memorable/have no personality." If that was the case, who the hell were samus and link in their first titles? In a game like Earthbound, just being one of the "chosen 4" and a member of the party signifies importance. Many plot elements literally revolve around what Ness' friends can do. Who drives Ness to rescue her from a blue cult? Paula. Who contacts Jeff when they're stranded in a hole? Paula. Who breaks out of school and risks his life for people who claim to be his friend? Jeff. These characters didn't even need to talk after they joined the party. They knew what to do. Mother 3 had a story. It needed dialogue to advance the plot because literally everything in every chapter was different. Mother 3 didn't go full on Earthbound until chapter 7, because at that point a clear goal was set: hunt down the needles. That's when dialogue became scarce because they didn't need to talk.

Hell, from my time playing FE7, a party member joined almost every chapter, having importance only in said chapter. That didn't make me want to remember them. Their class and attributes did.

This being completely unrelated to you guy's convo. Just my gripes with your earthbound argument.

 

[Shin F.]

If you are going to use the "she isn't the most important" line against Sami, you might as well also use it against Lyn, and unlike Lyn, Sami does have equal or greater importance in later Advance Wars storylines.

Also, as others have previously mentioned, Sami's connection with infantry and her canonical depiction of:
1. Being a member of Orange Star's specical forces.
2. Being depicted with realistic weapons.

Makes her plausible to have a derivative of Snake's moveset, and considering how the Project M team is pressed for time and staff, this makes her particularly atttractive, especially in comparison to other potential new series newcomers.

I'm not using it as a point against Sami, but rather, a point for Andy. Let me try to explain my perspective a bit better.

You're saying it's Sami's moveset potential as a Snake clone that makes her the better choice, and that makes sense. Andy, I've heard, is more of a support character and doesn't canonically use the kinds of weapons he would gain from Snake.

However, this is why the Earthbound analogy is a good one. Like Ness, Andy specializes in support and healing. Like Ness, Andy could borrow from his comrades. Smash has never cared about canonical abilities, as many characters can attest to. Is there anything Sami can do that Andy is just physically incapable of borrowing from her? Unless I'm greatly mistaken, there isn't.

Looked at from this perspective, Andy and Sami could have equal moveset potential. Their status as a main or support character isn't a point against Sami, it's a boost for Andy. Sami gets a pretty big boost of importance for her popularity and for being a major characters, but historically, the face of the series wins against more popular characters. (Marth and Ike, both main Fire Emblem characters were chosen over Lyn, for instance. It's not that there was anything wrong with Lyn, she just wasn't chosen because there were characters with more importance.)

If one of them is chosen, it will probably be Sami because I'm sure PMBR will want to appeal to the fans and she's more popular. I'm just saying that historically, this is the way past Smash characters seem to have been chosen.

I understand your position, and I hope I've explained mine well, but I don't really see any point in arguing further since we both seem set on our preferred characters. I'd like to just agree to disagree.

 

[Anti Guy]

I don't think Andy would be a candidate for a Snake clone. He'd have to hit it out on his own or clone someone else (for example Pit, replacing his "swords" with wrenches)

 

[Raijinken]

For a Non-Fire Emblem example (that said, everyone should play FE7, easily the best GBA game ever), Andy vs Sami is actually fairly similar to Zero vs Megaman X. X is the main character, bar the Megaman Zero and ZX series'. X is the face of the series as a whole, too, aside from Megaman Classic. Despite this, Zero is pretty much universally more popular than X due to his personality and weapon (and everything else, really), to such a level that (spoilers for people who haven't played MMX yet)

Spoiler

Capcom tried to kill him off, then made him an optional sidequest in X2,

then made him temporarily playable in X3, then made him fully playable in X4 and further. While X would deserve a slot for being the face of the series, many fans of the X series would likely appreciate Zero as a fan favorite (much like Pikachu is guaranteed a slot as Pokemon's mascot, but Charizard lately has been the fan-favorite amongst players who started on RGBY back in the day), and it could be argued that Zero as a clone off of (for instance) Marth/Link would be easier than X as a clone off of Samus for instance.

Basically, it's what's called an ensemble darkhorse. They're not the main character, they just hog the spotlight in the fans' eyes.

 

[MLGF]

The fact people could support Lyn over any other FE protagonist while saying Sami doesn't deserve a slot is so ****ing hypocritical it gives me AIDS.

 

[F. Blue]

I don't think Andy would be a candidate for a Snake clone. He'd have to hit it out on his own or clone someone else (for example Pit, replacing his "swords" with wrenches)

Snake already holds a knife, how hard can it be to change it to a wrench? (I'm not sure if it's possible to have two of them, but I'm guessing it's just a model attached to a bone, which turns invisible unless the animation needs it?) Obviously he'd use different animations than Snake, but so would Sami. The term 'clone' is not as limiting as you make it sound.

Moreover, to become a commanding officer, I'm sure all of the characters have had some kind of military training. I'm sure Andy can hold a gun or throw a grenade, even if he's not as experienced as Sami.

 

[Raijinken]

Moreover, to become a commanding officer, I'm sure all of the characters have had some kind of military training. I'm sure Andy can hold a gun or throw a grenade, even if he's not as experienced as Sami.

And yet the famous "What's an airport?" line makes you wonder sometimes...
I'm all for Andy, but yea, I think he'd tend more towards Pit, both from a weapon standpoint as well as his stature. Whereas Sami would fit best over Snake or Zamus.

Edit: Thinking even more, Andy would probably fit well over Toon Link, too. Give him a wrench to swing around, alter properties on bombs and whatnot to make them reflect military hardware, come up with something as Hyper Repair.

 

[F. Blue]

I'm all for Andy, but yea, I think he'd tend more towards Pit, both from a weapon standpoint as well as his stature. Whereas Sami would fit best over Snake or Zamus.

Andy and Sami both follow the 'six heads' Disney rule of proportions. Andy is shorter, but it's as simple as shrinking the model.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

The fact people could support Lyn over any other FE protagonist while saying Saki doesn't deserve a slot is so ****ing hypocritical it gives me AIDS.

Wait, I missed a discussion on Saki (Sin & Punishment)?

 

[MLGF]

Oh sorry, I meant Sami from advance wars.
Sorry, long night and I'm not too experienced in either series anyhow.

#johns

 

[DarkDeity15]

How about Fierce Deity Link? He's the only thing I could think of that would work. He appeared in Brawl as a sticker, and obviously isn't going to be playable in Smash 4, while having some very interesting and unique move set potential. I'm guessing he would be a big, slower character with lots of power. You have to really pay attention to how big he is though. He's basically an 8 foot tall OoT Link (so modeling shouldn't be too much of an issue) with a massive double helix sword. If I were to compare him to another character, he's like Ike on a larger scale, with a bit less mobility.

He'd probably be given the Bowser treatment with how comparatively slow he is (by that I mean giving him super armor on some of his attacks, such as smash attacks).

 

[Raijinken]

How about Fierce Deity Link? He's the only thing I could think of that would work. He appeared in Brawl as a sticker, and obviously isn't going to be playable in Smash 4, while having some very interesting and unique move set potential. I'm guessing he would be a big, slower character with lots of power. You have to really pay attention to how big he is though. He's basically an 8 foot tall OoT Link (so modeling shouldn't be too much of an issue) with a massive double helix sword. If I were to compare him to another character, he's like Ike on a larger scale, with a bit less mobility.

I always thought he'd be better as a unique non-clone final smash for Young Link (who in general would probably do better drawing from mask powers from MM rather than being a full clone) instead of a unique character, but it's an interesting idea.

 

[Sour Supreme]

How about Fierce Deity Link?

Brb, let me change my name to DarkNinten and then suggest him.

Just kidding. That's actually an interesting concept, most people usually try to ask for him as an Alternate Costume, which doesn't do much for the character (He'd be shrunken down). The only thing I'm opposed to is that he's so bada*ss that balancing him would just feel wrong. Like Link and Fierce Deity duking it out and having it be a fair match? Plz.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Brb, let me change my name to DarkNinten and then suggest him.

Just kidding. That's actually an interesting concept, most people usually try to ask for him as an Alternate Costume, which doesn't do much for the character (He'd be shrunken down). The only thing I'm opposed to is that he's so bada*ss that balancing him would just feel wrong. Like Link and Fierce Deity duking it out and having it be a fair match? Plz.

Lol.
While that's true, there's always turbo mode if you want to see his "true power". But hey, if Jiggs can put up with Ganondorf, why can't Link put up with FDL? Besides, imagine what a "Dark" color swap would look like for Fierce Deity. Pure awesome.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Lol.
While that's true, there's always turbo mode if you want to see his "true power". But hey, if Jiggs can put up with Ganondorf, why can't Link put up with FDL? Besides, imagine what a "Dark" color swap would look like for Fierce Deity. Pure awesome.

Can't argue with that. He couldn't really have an Alternate Costume tho.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Can't argue with that. He couldn't really have an Alternate Costume tho.

Maybe one where he has a cape? Even more awesome.

 

[MM3K]

I don't think the PMBR would put in power-up style costumes (Super Sonic, Mega Pokemon, etc.) in the game as alternate costumes or separate characters, due to the huge power differences, as Psy put it, Link vs Fierce Deity Link wouldn't make for a fair match. But then again, that brings the issue of characters like Pikachu being able taking on characters like Bowser on an equal footing into light

 

[Saito]

Fierce Diety Link is too big.

Also I had originally thought he was going to be Young link's final smash if he had made it into brawl.

Alt costume needs to happen for him.

 

[Saito]

I don't think the PMBR would put in power-up style costumes...

Fire flower Peach.
Shadow Peach (essentially)
Technically each samus suit is a power up so the light suit counts too.