New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Mowg]

@ Shin F. I´ve been sleeping on Ninten, right on repping Earthbound.

 

[Darkmask]

You do know that Sheik is a guy, right?

Unless you are in to that kind of stuff. I won't judge.

Sheik being a guy or girl is a whole different can of worms, and there's really no concrete answer to that. The trophy information from Brawl, for instance, clearly refers to Sheik as just a 'persona' of Zelda, meaning she's still female.

Melee Trophy Info: This is Zelda's alter ego. Using a variation of the name of the ancient Sheikah tribe, she appears before Link and teaches him melodies instrumental to his success. It's believed that she's not just a quick-change artist, but rather that she is able to instantaneously alter her clothing and her eye and skin color by using her magical skills.

Brawl Trophy Info: The persona Zelda adopted to escape from Ganondorf. She completely hid all traces of her Zelda identity and appeared to Link as the last member of the Sheikah tribe. She taught Link essential ocarina melodies and then vanished in an instant. She didn't appear very often--rather, she would show up to support Link in crucial situations.

EDIT: Ninja'd, told ya this topic was a can of worms.

 

[Bleck]

the concrete answer is that Sheik is a man

 

[Shin F.]

the concrete answer is that Sheik is a man

Sheik is very clearly referred to as a she in her trophies. Not to mention that Sheik is, in fact, Zelda, who is also very clearly a woman.

 

[Mowg]

Wait dogs, I want to hear both sides.

 

[Bleck]

you heard it here first folks smash bros trophy info is more canon than the games from which characters originate

 

[arcticfox8]

There was a really good page linked somewhere(probs in this thread, but might've been elsewhere) explaining Sheik's gender and why she is definitely a she.

 

[Shin F.]

you heard it here first folks smash bros trophy info is more canon than the games from which characters originate

Wait, wait, wait - you're telling me Zelda has a **** in the original games? That's news to me.

You guys, I never knew that all those people were right when they called Zelda a "he".

 

[arcticfox8]

Wait, wait, wait - you're telling me Zelda has a **** in the original games? That's news to me.

Good news tho
My fanfiction now makes sense

 

[Celestis]

Sheik is only posing as a guy. Once the identity was reviled, is was a she.

 

[Bleck]

Wait, wait, wait - you're telling me Zelda has a **** in the original games?

whether or not someone has a penis is irrelevant to whether or not they're a man or a woman

 

[Shin F.]

whether or not someone has a penis is irrelevant to whether or not they're a man or a woman

I'm starting to think you never learned the difference between a boy and a girl.

 

[Cool Blue]

You had it right. Sheik's definitely a girl. I don't know what Cool Blue has been smoking lately, but I want some.

Taken from Zelda Wiki
"Sheik (pronounced /ˈʃiːk/SHEEK) is one of the last surviving Sheikah in Ocarina of Time. He[0] aids Link on his quest without really describing who he is or why he is doing so. He has great advice, wisdom, and knowledge of the world, making him an invaluable ally for Link. Sheik also teaches Link various warp songs with the use of his Harp."
Unless the people who wrote that article were smoking whoever knows what.

Also, is there a canonical source that refers to Sheik as a female? If there is, please point my head to it.

Edit: The Triforce of Power turned Ganondorf into a giant pig with dual swords, and that's cool, but turning a woman into a man? That's completely out of the question.

 

[Bleck]

I'm starting to think you never learned the difference between a boy and a girl.

I mean it's pretty widespread knowledge in the 21st century that biological sex and gender identity are not synonymous but I mean kudos on proving to everyone present that you're not really sure what you're talking about

 

[Shin F.]

Taken from Zelda Wiki
"Sheik (pronounced /ˈʃiːk/SHEEK) is one of the last surviving Sheikah in Ocarina of Time. He[0] aids Link on his quest without really describing who he is or why he is doing so. He has great advice, wisdom, and knowledge of the world, making him an invaluable ally for Link. Sheik also teaches Link various warp songs with the use of his Harp."
Unless the people who wrote that article were smoking whoever knows what.

Also, is there a canonical source that refers to Sheik as a female? If there is, please point my head to it.

Edit: The Triforce of Power turned Ganondorf into a giant pig with dual swords, and that's cool, but turning a woman into a man? That's completely out of the question.

Wiki's not canon, and besides that, you'll note that Sheik is also referred to as a she in later parts of the page.

I mean it's pretty widespread knowledge in the 21st century that biological sex and gender identity are not synonymous but I mean kudos on proving to everyone present that you're not really sure what you're talking about

We're not talking about gender identity, we're talking about Sheik's biological gender. Her gender identity is irrelevant, considering she specifically disguised every aspect of herself, and so any affiliation towards masculine or feminine identity is merely a part of the disguise.

 

[Mowg]

whether or not someone has a penis is irrelevant to whether or not they're a man or a woman

Bleck has a point. It´s not just in the genitals but in the perception of the self, which encompasses ¨gender identity¨.

 

[Cool Blue]

Wiki's not canon, and besides that, you'll note that Sheik is also referred to as a she in later parts of the page.

What makes the wiki non-canon?

Edit: It refers to Sheik as a "her" in the non-canon portion of the article.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Common sense dictates that Shiek is a girl.

Shiek was referred to with male pronouns by some characters in Ocarina of Time, but that was only a testament to how great the disguise was.

It's later revealed, however, that Shiek is the alter ego of Zelda.

Who is a woman.

So Shiek is a woman.

/stupid debate

 

[Rᴏb]

 

[arcticfox8]

http://www.freewebs.com/sheiksevensage/sheiksgender.htm
NOW EVERYONE SHUT THE **** UP
FOR THE LOVE OF GANON'S TESTICLES

 

[Shin F.]

Bleck has a point. It´s not just in the genitals but in the perception of the self, which encompasses ¨gender identity¨.

And as I said, Sheik is a disguise of Zelda. Her entire persona as Sheik was a disguise - any indication towards either gender identity is a part of the disguise. If you want to know Sheik's gender identity, you have to look at the real her - IE Zelda, who you'll note (while called a tomboy) is very feminine.

In-game references to her as a male are a part of the story to prevent the player from connecting her to Zelda. Much in the same way Samus was called a male the entire first Metroid game.

 

[Cool Blue]

Common sense dictates that Shiek is a girl.

Shiek was referred to with male pronouns by some characters in Ocarina of Time, but that was only a testament to how great the disguise was.

It's later revealed, however, that Shiek is the alter ego of Zelda.

Who is a woman.

So Shiek is a woman.

/stupid debate

Alright, fine. My mistake.

But still, the Triforce could turn her into a guy if necessary.

 

[Bleck]

We're not talking about gender identity, we're talking about Sheik's biological gender.

no I'm pretty sure that you're the only person whose talking about that because it's the only perception of the conversation in which you don't appear to be an enormous tool

Her gender identity is irrelevant, considering she specifically disguised every aspect of herself, and so any affiliation towards masculine or feminine identity is merely a part of the disguise.

yeah that's the point

the masculine identity is a part of the disguise

and sheik is the disguise

therefore sheik's masculine's identity makes sheik a man

Common sense dictates that Shiek is a girl.

common sense dictates that as was already said sheik's gender isn't the same thing as sheik's sex - the only frame of mind where the latter overrides the former is not really what I'd call common sense but rather common stupidity

 

[Darkmask]

You guys do realize Bleck is trolling you now, right?

 

[arcticfox8]

Okay look
Sheik was posing as a boy
That doesn't mean she wanted to be a boy
It was a temporary identity to stay alive
Gender identity is irrelevant

 

[Bleck]

I'm pretty sure that anybody with a furry avatar is literally incapable of understanding what 'trolling' means

 

[Cool Blue]

You guys do realize Bleck is trolling you now, right?

I don't think anybody here (bar Bleck, sometimes he scares me) is stupid enough to not realize that Bleck is a troll.

 

[arcticfox8]

I'm pretty sure that anybody with a furry avatar is incapable of understanding what 'trolling' means

Okay
Real
Cut it out
Like 10 seconds ago

 

[Bleck]

like I guess let's all talk about how I'm such a ~troll~ and then everyone can dismiss me and continue having offensive perceptions of sex/gender concepts, sure

I miss when "trolling" people meant something other than "this person is saying I'm wrong and I'm too dumb to do anything but strawman their statements so they'll stop making me look like a moron"

 

[Bleck]

double post whoops

 

[Mowg]

I´ve learned more about the legend of Zelda in this one night than I have in all the rest of my life just by observing some of you squatting on Ganon´s cueball noggin´, arguing. I think you´re all quite bright, but your playing pong with your self-importance. Take a break. It´s not worth it. This all started with Cool Blue´s funny troll but then everyone blew it up. forgive the vulgarity.

 

[Darkmask]

like I guess let's all talk about how I'm such a ~troll~ and then everyone can dismiss me and continue having offensive perceptions of sex/gender concepts, sure

I miss when "trolling" people meant something other than "this person is saying I'm wrong and I'm too dumb to do anything but strawman their statements so they'll stop making me look like a moron"

I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am saying the topic of Sheik's gender is a hot button that's caused flame wars elsewhere, such as Zelda forums, because many sources say different things, in Smash she's a girl, in the Manga its a guy, and in the game, they never actually say outright what Sheik is. In the end it just doesn't really matter and doesn't really have any pertinence in a New Character Discussion thread.

 

[Bleck]

yeah I really got that from the part where you said I was a troll yeah

 

[Mowg]

Now I feel like it´s my fault because I mentioned sex appeal. it won´t happen again.

 

[Bleck]

I'll sex your appeal

 

[Mowg]

I would like to destroy a Falco.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Now that that misadventure is over, how about we talk about, you know, clone engine characters?

I still don't know how Samurai Goroh could play, even though I gave him a half vote. F-Zero fans help me pls.

 

[Bleck]

make him a clone of marth but change like three of his moves and nobody will complain

 

[arcticfox8]

I understand gender identity just fine
Sheik's gender is not a case of that

EDIT:That took awhile to post
I do want to move on
Samurai Goroh could be a Falcon clone with a sword
S'all I got tho
Yw

 

[Bleck]

says stop posting about thing

half an hour later posts about thing