New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Cool Blue]

That's not quite true, either. Roy is a lot more popular then Pichu. Granted, Roy's popularity is a direct result of his being a Melee veteran. So while his veteran status is the ultimate reason, I should correct myself in saying it's not the only reason.

It's a complicated issue. It really can't be viewed in black and white. Every aspect has to be taken into consideration.

Yeah, I guess.
It's just really hard because it seems so unfair to me that Pichu probably won't make it in.
I just feel like there is so much missed potential here.

 

[Shin F.]

Yeah, I guess.
It's just really hard because it seems so unfair to me that Pichu probably won't make it in.
I just feel like there is so much missed potential here.

Yeah, we all have those characters. All we can do is support them and hope for the best.

 

[Solbliminal]

Good or not, it is the best legitimate argument for him.

Best or not, that doesn't mean this argument changes Pichu's position in terms of a desired character. I pretty much feel the same way about Pichu that I do about Waluigi. Yes it is unfortunate, but it hardly seems fair to clutter the roster before giving other series some spotlight.

I sympathize with Pichu users because I loved Roy in Melee, and I was pretty bummed when I couldn't use him in Brawl (he's the reason I got into Brawl Modding) and ecstatic when he returned in Project M. Now, Pichu users have hope for their main to return in a new, awesome and unique way. They've been teased about it not once, but twice with the April Fools vid and the stock icon in the 3.0 release. I think they deserve some kind of recognition.

I mained Roy in Melee. As a guilty pleasure, I loved playing Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 as Lars. I have played many games where my main character has been left high and dry. Street Fighter, Tekken, Marvel vs Capcom, you name it. But just because one character does not make the returning cut, does not mean that character should get an immediate playable status before any other. Especially when that character falls short from demand. And representation DOES make a difference when it is part of the demand. Mod or not, if PMBR plans to be "professional" about anything they are doing, then they do have to consider things like a normal company would. They even made a statement in regards to how they understand the pressure Sakurai undergoes when selecting his initial roster. That sounds like they are taking such things into consideration.

I'm not being inconsiderate about Pichu. I'm being considerate to those who have it way worse. If PMBR has no plans to do 5 all new characters, throw the Pichu fans a bone. I've already said this many times before. I'm not against him, but I don't see him as a larger priority than the demand of other characters.

I'm also sorry if my wording is off or has offended anyone. I'm having a very off-day.

 

[Saito]

I mained Roy in Melee. As a guilty pleasure, I loved playing Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 as Lars. I have played many games where my main character has been left high and dry. Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Tekken, Marvel vs Capcom, you name it. But just because one character does not make the returning cut, does not mean that character should get an immediate playable status before any other.

Don't you think that's a problem in itself?

I hate the fact that companies cut characters from their fighting games in general. They almost always don't do it because they want to, they do it because they lack funding or time.

And no one here is saying that Pichu deserves the spot more than anyone else other than a couple of people. I say Pichu has a better chance of making it back in because of his status as a melee veteran. This doesn't assure him but gives him enough pull to make him considerable. Whereas any other pokemon would probably get denied without a second thought.

I'm not being inconsiderate about Pichu. I'm being considerate to those who have it way worse. If PMBR has no plans to do 5 all new characters, throw the Pichu fans a bone. I've already said this many times before. I'm not against him, but I don't see him as a larger priority than the demand of other characters.

I haven't seen a single bad suggestion in this thread. I only have one downvote and that's on Ganon/Black shadow because it affects older players.

Pichu is just someone I want back. People can call it selfish but it's my vote after all.

 

[Cool Blue]

I'm not being inconsiderate about Pichu. I'm being considerate to those who have it way worse.

While it would be cool to have reps from new series, (heck, I voted for Isaac and Ray) it just doesn't seem right to leave behind old characters. If Pichu is added in, then there would still be plenty of space for either characters without represented series or characters with under represented series. It's like the old saying:"Make new friends but keep the old; one is silver,the other is gold."

 

[Shin F.]

"Make new friends but keep the old; one is silver,the other is gold."

How do I choose?!?!

 

[Cool Blue]

How do I choose?!?!

Ha I see what you did there.
It's even more fitting because Pichu was introduced in Gold and Silver.

 

[Solbliminal]

Don't you think that's a problem in itself?

I hate the fact that companies cut characters from their fighting games in general. They almost always don't do it because they want to, they do it because they lack funding or time.

Yes, it is absolutely bogus. But I understand the mentality behind such decisions. Either the character's popularity wasn't as desirable as one would have hoped, or the character was dropped in favor of another. Which makes sense. Especially when considering PMBR's position of having only 5 slots. It is no different than how the Xbox 360 version of Skullgirls is the last to receive updates due to Microsoft's constrained data space requirements preventing them from making the update possible, or how BlazBlue Chronophantasma will not receive an Xbox 360 version because the game takes up more memory than the Xbox 360 disc can contain, And even the fact that Lars will not make a return to Ninja Storm because of his lack of demand. How about the fact that Link will not return in the new port of Soul Calibur 2? There was not enough demand for a Wii U version, so he gets left high and dry, while Spawn and Heihachi are both playable.

Sacrifices have to be made for situations like this. I will say it again. If they have no plans on extending the roster with new characters. Pichu, all day long.

While it would be cool to have reps from new series, (heck, I voted for Isaac and Ray) it just doesn't seem right to leave behind old characters. If Pichu is added in, then there would still be plenty of space for either characters without represented series or characters with under represented series. It's like the old saying:"Make new friends but keep the old; one is silver,the other is gold."

Okay, now consider this. Character X has had a chance to be in the game because he was in the last game. But character Y has a lot more fans than character X. Character Y has had far more requests to get in than character X. Character X gets in and people supporting character Y lose hope. The game loses this majority of fans supporting character Y. And the chances are, if this character's series hasn't received noticeable representation, this character's series dies-off. But character X's series has a fair amount of characters that give his series notice. There is no chance this series will die-off even if character X didn't show up.

Consider the following is character Y: Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Balloon Fight, Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack).

Now consider if character Y would have been the following characters: Ice Climbers, Pit, Marth, Roy, R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Captain Falcon, Ness, Lucas, and Samus.

It doesn't feel good to have a series neglected and possibly die off from lack of representation. THAT is hardly fair.

 

[Cool Blue]

Okay, now consider this. Character X has had a chance to be in the game because he was in the last game. But character Y has a lot more fans than character X. Character Y has had far more requests to get in than character X. Character X gets in and people supporting character Y lose hope. The game loses this majority of fans supporting character Y. And the chances are, if this character's series hasn't received noticeable representation, this character's series dies-off. But character X's series has a fair amount of characters that give his series notice. There is no chance this series will die-off even if character X didn't show up.

Consider the following is character Y: Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Balloon Fight, Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack).

Now consider if character Y would have been the following characters: Ice Climbers, Pit, Marth, Roy, R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Captain Falcon, Ness, Lucas, and Samus.

It doesn't feel good to have a series neglected and possibly die off from lack of representation. THAT is hardly fair.

Yes, but the thing is, both characters X and Y, and Z, and 2 others can be added in in this situation.
If Pichu is added in. there are still 4 slots left. With those, the PMBR could give attention to much-needed series. They can be your Ray, your Isaac, your Balloon Fighter, your Lip, your Andy/Sami.
In conclusion, there is NO good reason for Pichu to not be in. (unless I'm missing something that is glaringly obvious)

 

[Saito]

Yes, it is absolutely bogus. But I understand the mentality behind such decisions. Either the character's popularity wasn't as desirable as one would have hoped, or the character was dropped in favor of another. Which makes sense. Especially when considering PMBR's position of having only 5 slots. It is no different than how the Xbox 360 version of Skullgirls is the last to receive updates due to Microsoft's constrained data space requirements preventing them from making the update possible, or how BlazBlue Chronophantasma will not receive an Xbox 360 version because the game takes up more memory than the Xbox 360 disc can contain, And even the fact that Lars will not make a return to Ninja Storm because of his lack of demand. How about the fact that Link will not return in the new port of Soul Calibur 2? There was not enough demand for a Wii U version, so he gets left high and dry, while Spawn and Heihachi are both playable.

Sacrifices have to be made for situations like this. I will say it again. If they have no plans on extending the roster with new characters. Pichu, all day long.

I want a source on lars not having demand. He was solid in the game and the main reason behind his inclusion was probably due to connections. (Lars' tekken 6 costume was designed by the creator of naruto)

Sacrifices are bogus.
But my vote for Pichu still stands.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yes, but the thing is, both characters X and Y, and Z, and 2 others can be added in in this situation.
If Pichu is added in. there are still 4 slots left. With those, the PMBR could give attention to much-needed series. They can be your Ray, your Isaac, your Balloon Fighter, your Lip, your Andy/Sami.
In conclusion, there is NO good reason for Pichu to not be in. (unless I'm missing something that is glaringly obvious)

The fact that Pichu is not in great demand. That is the most obvious point. It is harsh, it is unfair, but it is the truth.

I want a source on lars not having demand. He was solid in the game and the main reason behind his inclusion was probably due to connections. (Lars' tekken 6 costume was designed by the creator of naruto)

If you were around during the times when that game had an active online, all you would hear is how Naruto fans think Lars stole a slot from a deserving Naruto character. A lot like how people feel about 3rd parties in Smash. This is pretty much why he never came back. Pretty stupid considering what took his place.

Sacrifices are bogus.
But my vote for Pichu still stands.

I don't blame you. In fact, if Pichu does make it, he needs a Ninja Storm 2 Lars outfit.

 

[Shin F.]

I don't blame you. In fact, if Pichu does make it, he needs a Ninja Storm 2 Lars outfit.

Naruchu? Larsichu?

 

[Solbliminal]

Naruchu?

Wrong. Alexanderchu.

 

[Cool Blue]

The fact that Pichu is not in great demand. That is the most obvious point. It is harsh, it is unfair, but it is the truth.

Well then I guess I'll just have to build hype for Pichu. Then nobody could say no.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well then I guess I'll just have to build hype for Pichu. Then nobody could say no.

I like the motivation, but it has been attempted. Far too many salty Pichu haters, just like how people hate Shadow the Hedgehog. This goes back to something @ Shin F. had said about my Shadow support.

If the community weren't so against Shadow from the beginning, he'd be at the top by now.

The same applies to Pichu. Trying to support Pichu is like trying to fight a river of pure salt.

 

[Cool Blue]

"The same applies to Pichu. Trying to support Pichu is like trying to fight a river of pure salt."
Just dilute the salt with all of the pros the character can provide.

 

[Solbliminal]

Just dilute the salt with all of the pros the character can provide.

I like the motivation, but it has been attempted.

People have tried. This thread literally suffered from trying to argue the reasons why Pichu is a good idea.

To put it in perspective, it was like trying to convince you that Ridley can be made proportionally right in P:M.

 

[Cool Blue]

People have tried. This thread literally suffered from trying to argue the reasons why Pichu is a good idea.

To put it in perspective, it was like trying to convince you that Ridley can be made proportionally right in P:M.

Can you point me to the pages where the bulk of the argument took place?

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Can you point me to the pages where the bulk of the argument took place?

Arguments.
There have been many.
Spanning multiple threads and countless pages (even the Social Thread IIRC).

 

[Cool Blue]

Arguments.
There have been many.
Spanning multiple threads and countless pages (even the Social Thread IIRC).

Well then at least tell me what the main arguments against Pichu are.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Well then at least tell me what the main arguments against Pichu are.

"He's gey"
"He's a stupid character"
"Why would we want a joke character?"
"He's garbage"
"I don't like him, so no one should like him"

I wouldn't call them arguments.
The battle of Pichu is a battle of Logic v.s. Hate

 

[Ginge]

Search this thread for the word Pichu. There are way too many to link em.

Arguments against Pichu:
"Pikachu is an underplayed character in Project M. If Pichu is made viable, it might make Pikachu even more underplayed."

"Pokemon is overrepresented. We should represent new series before adding more to the oversaturated ones"

 

[Cool Blue]

"He's gey"
"He's a stupid character"
"Why would we want a joke character?"
"He's garbage"
"I don't like him, so no one should like him"

I wouldn't call them arguments.
The battle of Pichu is a battle of Logic v.s. Hate

Well that's unfortunate that hateful trolls represent the majority.

 

[Shin F.]

You'd have to read the entire thread to find every single anti-Pichu argument. Some are legit, good reasons, but many are not. Just as there are both legit and sucky reasons to include him. Far too many people fixate on one reason as though it's the end-all-be-all, and refuse to look at the entire picture because they're blinded by either hate or devotion.

 

[Solbliminal]

You'd have to read the entire thread to find every single anti-Pichu argument. Some are legit, good reasons, but many are not. Just as there are both legit and sucky reasons to include him. Far too many people fixate on one reason as though it's the end-all-be-all, and refuse to look at the entire picture because they're blinded by either hate or devotion.

Pretty much this. I was previously part of the majority that didn't want him, but then I tossed him a half vote. I don't like the thought of people losing a main, but I also don't like the idea of a generally more deserving character getting the shaft. I'm not against him, but I would much rather have another character over him. That is why he only got my half and not my whole vote.

Personally, I would just scrap an Alloy for a Pichu slot.

 

[Darkmask]

If they do add Pichu back into the fold, one thing that has to be considered is what to do with him. One of the big draws of Project M is that it can take the copycat characters and help establish them as separate entities from their mirror move originals. However, at the same time, people who are clamoring for Pichu, a lot of them are doing so because they mained Pichu in Melee, and therefore if they do give him a move overhaul, it could end up souring the people who fought for him.

I agree that he can't just be a faster, self-damaging clone of Pikachu, because we don't want Pikachu to be outshined, but enough of the original design should remain intact for those who enjoy him because of how he played in Melee.

One idea I had is to turn one of his taunts into Rest, which can be held like Sonic and Mewtwo's taunts. It has Pichu sleeping, and slowly recovering health, if not a taunt, then as an actual move. This way a fast player can move away and slowly regen a little of that lost HP that Pichu suffers when using moves.

Also I think some of Pichu's moves should be changed, at least ones that aren't that popular, maybe his Thundershock can be changed into something else? Maybe Wild Charge? Or replace his Skull Back with Wild Charge, change the mechanics of it slightly? It's a recoil electric move, or maybe Charge Beam, something a bit more akin to R.O.B.'s laser, where if Pichu tries using it too much it tires him out and doesn't go out as far.

Maybe add a high risk big hit move, replace Thunder with a Zap Canon equivalent, where Pichu can generate a big blast!

Just some ideas. I am not opposed to adding Pichu back into the roster, but I think he needs a careful revamp is all.

 

[Shin F.]

Pretty much this. I was previously part of the majority that didn't want him, but then I tossed him a half vote. I don't like the thought of people losing a main, but I also don't like the idea of a generally more deserving character getting the shaft. I'm not against him, but I would much rather have another character over him. That is why he only got my half and not my whole vote.

Personally, I would just scrap an Alloy for a Pichu slot.

That would work, except that the Alloys don't have specials. They could theoretically add them, but there's a HUGE obstacle there - the Alloys have an incredibly small file size limit. If they tried to fit an entire character onto an Alloy slot, they wouldn't be able to to do it without somehow increasing that.

(Although the idea of KOing a ton of Pichus in Multi-Man Brawl is highly amusing.)

 

[Xinc]

I'm pretty neutral on Pichu. I really didn't see him as a really dominating factor (obviously) but his mechanics means he'd be long due for a buff. If he was buffed too much, he'd be potentially better than Pikachu. I think if Pichu was made, the team would have to make something different (like range difference in that Pichu deals more damage but has less range), kind of like Roy/Marth

 

[Shin F.]

If they do add Pichu back into the fold, one thing that has to be considered is what to do with him. One of the big draws of Project M is that it can take the copycat characters and help establish them as separate entities from their mirror move originals. However, at the same time, people who are clamoring for Pichu, a lot of them are doing so because they mained Pichu in Melee, and therefore if they do give him a move overhaul, it could end up souring the people who fought for him.

I agree that he can't just be a faster, self-damaging clone of Pikachu, because we don't want Pikachu to be outshined, but enough of the original design should remain intact for those who enjoy him because of how he played in Melee.

One idea I had is to turn one of his taunts into Rest, which can be held like Sonic and Mewtwo's taunts. It has Pichu sleeping, and slowly recovering health, if not a taunt, then as an actual move. This way a fast player can move away and slowly regen a little of that lost HP that Pichu suffers when using moves.

Also I think some of Pichu's moves should be changed, at least ones that aren't that popular, maybe his Thundershock can be changed into something else? Maybe Wild Charge? Or replace his Skull Back with Wild Charge, change the mechanics of it slightly? It's a recoil electric move, or maybe Charge Beam, something a bit more akin to R.O.B.'s laser, where if Pichu tries using it too much it tires him out and doesn't go out as far.

Maybe add a high risk big hit move, replace Thunder with a Zap Canon equivalent, where Pichu can generate a big blast!

Just some ideas. I am not opposed to adding Pichu back into the roster, but I think he needs a careful revamp is all.

You and Cool Blue weren't around for it, so I'm going to put the BEST idea I've ever seen for Pichu here.

I thought of another Pichu idea-- who remembers the Plasma ability from Kirby's Super Star?

What if Pichu had a move like that? It could start off as a very weak attack with short range, but could charge the more you ran around (dashdancing FTW) It would work well for a hit-n-run esque character. When fully charged, Pichu would become electrified, which would damage enemies that touched it (like in Super Star) as well as Pichu itself. Using the move then would unleash an incredibly powerful electric ball of death

To elaborate on the Plasma Pichu idea

Pichu's Thunder Jolt (B), Agility (up B) and Thunder (down B) would be his most revamped moves.

Thunder jolt would have less range, but would be able to paralyze opponents like ZSS's Paralyzer. Pichu will take damage from using this move, but it can give you time to escape if you're in a bind.

Agility would feature three zips instead of two (each zip would be slightly shorter than one of Pika's). The move still does no damage.

Thunder would instead become Discharge. Normally, Discharge would be a VERY weak move. The more Pichu runs around (again, dashdancing FTW), the more electricity it will build up. When fully charged, Pichu will become electrified-- anything it touches will take damage, and Pichu will take damage itself until it uses Discharge. Discharge would look similar to Pika's Thunder except for one thing-- it travels horizontally! Instead of coming from the clouds, Pichu will discharge a gigantic thunderbolt from it's own body that would shoot straight ahead, decimating all that it touches! The question is: can Pichu live long enough to use it?

Also, I had a really silly idea. If Pichu got a final smash, what if it was Destiny Bond? A 20-second timer would appear above Pichu's head, and if it is KO'd before that timer runs out, whoever landed the killing blow will be instantly defeated! Imagine the salt this would cause in Team Matches! :kappa:

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that Pichu can't use destiny bond. Would still be hilarious though.

This idea was what made me give Pichu a half-vote.

 

[Cool Blue]

You and Cool Blue weren't around for it, so I'm going to put the BEST idea I've ever seen for Pichu here.


This idea was what made me give Pichu a half-vote.

That sounds really cool.

 

[Solbliminal]

That would work, except that the Alloys don't have specials. They could theoretically add them, but there's a HUGE obstacle there - the Alloys have an incredibly small file size limit. If they tried to fit an entire character onto an Alloy slot, they wouldn't be able to to do it.

I'm aware of the no specials part. I didn't know they specifically had file size limits. But to the point, I'm only suggesting that PMBR go the extra mile for Pichu if they plan on filling the slots. Otherwise, just give it to him.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm aware of the no specials part. I didn't know they specifically had file size limits. But to the point, I'm only suggesting that PMBR go the extra mile for Pichu if they plan on filling the slots. Otherwise, just give it to him.

Yeah, pretty much every character has very, very strict file size limits that they can't go over. The more complex the character, the higher the limit. So characters like Marth (no articles or overly complex animations) have very low file size limits, while characters like Samus or Zelda (many projectiles, shared file size between they and their transformations) have higher limits. You can imagine what characters that don't even have full movesets in the first place would be like. There is room for more than their default bits, but not much.

 

[Darkmask]

It is a shame that Geno isn't an option. He's certainly one of my highest picks for a Character to be added to Project M, specifically because he is a part of Nintendo and Mario history, and because he'll probably never get added to the real Smash due to damn Square Enix not just giving the rights to him and Mallow to Nintendo where they belong.

What we want:

What's really happening:

 

[Solbliminal]

Yeah, pretty much every character has very, very strict file size limits that they can't go over. The more complex the character, the higher the limit. So characters like Marth (no articles or overly complex animations) have very low file size limits, while characters like Samus or Zelda (many projectiles, shared file size between they and their transformations) have higher limits. You can imagine what characters that don't even have full movesets in the first place would be like. There is room for more than their default bits, but not much.

I was aware characters files had size limits. What I meant to say is that I didn't realize that the Alloys had a lot smaller ones compared to the cast. I mean it makes sense, but I never considered that.

Well enough about Pichu. Lets talk Metal Mario.

 

[arcticfox8]

I was aware characters files had size limits. What I meant to say is that I didn't realize that the Alloys had a lot smaller ones compared to the cast. I mean it makes sense, but I never considered that.

Well enough about Pichu. Lets talk Metal Mario.

Hold R at the character select when choosing Mario. That's all I want.

 

[Shin F.]

Hold R at the character select when choosing Mario. That's all I want.

Or just play Metal Brawl

 

[arcticfox8]

Or just play Metal Brawl

Yeah but what if I want to main Metal Mario in tournament.

 

[Cool Blue]

Lets talk Metal Mario.

What new gameplay mechanics could he offer?

 

[Solbliminal]

Hold R at the character select when choosing Mario. That's all I want.

Imagine all the combos he could do with that amazing fast fall. And his fireballs could have metal properties, so they too fast fall. Making for some sweet overhead combos. And he was a Smash 64 vet that never got to be playable until that accursed temporary metal box that didn't properly justify the character at all. Seriously. And he isn't even oil colored anymore. I demand Metal Mario justice! !!

 

[MLGF]

Every character should just get an unlimited form of sorts.
Just rip off Arc-System!