New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Empyrean]

It's actually 1/6th.

Close enough. It's still a lot though.

 

[heroscott]

Do we have an actual vote count yet?

 

[Solbliminal]

For reference's sake, I went Lyn, Ridley, Issac, Sami and Saki. I'd probably have mentioned Takamaru if I didn't have a weirdly strong belief in him making it into Smash4. Lyn is there to ensure I get my Iaijutsu/battojutsu fix on both the PM and S4 fronts.

If I had what I "wanted" it wouldn't really feel right. I'm all about the thought of pleasing a greater majority. Not just fulfilling a wishlist, but exposing new fanbases to this one to draw in more players. Introducing a new series character may, not only appeal to our current majority, but also reach the appeal of communities that support series that don't already have characters. A good 2 or 3 characters from series that needs them and 2 or 3 from a series that hasn't had a character already, sounds fair.

Yep, that statement is pretty accurate, though my 5 is a tad different.

- Waluigi (AKA a person everyone is 50/50 on, but can be put in to help show off their good side.)
- Newcomer from new series
- Preferably a second newcomer from a new series.
- Other two are newcomers from existing franchises.

The only requirement I have for any newcomer, like I have said a few times before I believe is that they should be fun to play, unique and/or represent their franchise in a positive way. Waluigi is definitely the oddball when it comes to this description, I am trying to create a competitively viable, yet wacky, yet unique, yet fun move set that represents him and his fighting capabilities. As for his series he rep, he could represent the Mario Sports/side games (speaking of which I may need to play them again to find my down and side specials. Also instead of a Mushroom for the series I would use Wario's W). As for the other newcomers, I'm open to anybody, I refused to do a down vote when i had the chance to, and I still do now. I need to find a 3rd character to main, and Waluigi would fit the bill, but who knows how that will go? (Probably very poorly.) Takamaru would be interesting, I have always liked Samurais, but I have never played his game…

I am not 100% sure about this, but I think we should pay attention to Smash 4's developments. Using my list as an example, I wanted Little Mac on my original list for the clone engine, but Smash 4 changed that. If Isaac does get confirmed for Smash 4, the support I sorta had for him will be gone completely and I will be 100% on Waluigi. The day he was confirmed as an assist trophy, I ran at light speed to this thread to try and give Waluigi fans what they want. I remember that day, it felt so long ago.

Spoiler

Only one person can replace Waluigi's assist trophy when he is off finally enjoying the battle.

Spoiler

"Leave it to me!"

Not to put you down, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. This kind of support is in the direction of series that already has enough characters. And I LOVE Waluigi man. I seriously do. He is the only character aside from Shy Guy that I play in the Mario spin-offs. I was bummed by his Smash 4 de-confirmation. But at the same time, I understand why it had happened. This kind of support is no different than the Pichu fans, though they have more justified reasons for being upset. But it is even less fair to give other series that have been without deserved support for so long, the cold shoulder. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda have a fair amount of characters. If there were going to be more than 5 slots, I'm sure each of them would get 1 more character. I'm not saying Pichu and Waluigi shouldn't be in Smash Bros. or P:M. I am saying that if we are on the limit of 5 more characters, we should not play selfish because (X) Mario / Zelda / Pokemon character did not make the cut.

Game series like Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Pannel De Pon (Tetris Attack), Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Balloon Fight, and so on, have been shafted left and right.

Example 1: "Oh poo, my favorite Mario / Pokemon / Zelda character didn't get in out of the 5-7 we already have."
vs
Example 2: "Ugh, why are Metroid and DKC only getting 2 characters?"
vs
Example 3: "Man, (insert unrepped series here) STILL doesn't have a character to play as. That is my favorite series."

Oh boy, people are going to be real sad about skipping out on another Pokemon, Zelda, or Mario character. Especially when other series are left high and dry with no more than a main character or 2, if not none. See my point?

Do we have an actual vote count yet?

Here are the final results. I won't be tallying anymore votes after this point.

There were 249 unique people voting.

As usual, it'll be this format, and I've only included characters with at least 10 votes:

Name: Score (+1s, +1/2s, -1s, %)

Individual Tiers
Isaac: 132.5 (131, 23, 10, 93.90%)

Ridley: 100.5 (108, 33, 24, 85.45%)

Lyn: 74 (83, 26, 22, 83.21%)

Ganondorf + Black Shadow: 68 (91, 23, 35, 76.67%)

Dark Samus: 53 (54, 40, 21, 81.74%)

King K Rool: 46 (43, 32, 13, 85.23%)

A Tier
Skapon: 39.5 (44, 31, 20, 78.95%)
Bowser Jr.: 37 (39, 32, 18, 79.78%)
Saki: 37 (33, 26, 9, 86.76%)
Skull Kid: 32 (27, 18, 4, 91.84%)
Masked Man/Claus: 30.5 (27, 15, 4, 91.30%)

B Tier
Sami: 23.5 (34, 13, 17, 73.44%)
Dixie Kong: 23 (35, 38, 31, 70.19%)
Paper Mario: 20 (25, 34, 22, 72.84%)
Tom Nook: 20 (18, 20, 8, 82.61%)
Ray: 18.5 (11, 15, 0, 100.00%)
Andy: 15.5 (14, 19, 8, 80.49%)
Samurai Goroh: 15 (13, 26, 11, 78.00%)

C Tier
Toad: 7.5 (21, 19, 23, 63.49%)
Waluigi: 6 (31, 26, 38, 60.00%)
Lip: 5.5 (1, 9, 0, 100.00%)
Hector: 3.5 (11, 19, 17, 63.83%)
Tetra: 3 (9, 14, 13, 64.89%)
Red/Pokemon Trainer: 1 (5, 4, 6, 60.00%)
Plusle & Minun: -3 (6, 9, 13, 51.85%)

D Tier
Toon Zelda: -9.5 (6, 7, 19, 40.63%)
Krystal: -10.5 (11, 25, 34, 51.43%)
Pichu: -12.5 (36, 25, 61, 50.00%)

F (Sonic) Tier
Tails: -25.5 (16, 19, 51, 40.70%)
Knuckles: -28.5 (15, 11, 49, 34.67%)
Shadow: -53.5 (12, 7, 69, 21.59%)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

@bksbestbwoy

*knocks on wood*

If I had what I "wanted" it wouldn't really feel right. I'm all about the thought of pleasing a greater majority. Not just fulfilling a wishlist, but exposing new fanbases to this one to draw in more players. Introducing a new series character may, not only appeal to our current majority, but also reach the appeal of communities that support series that don't already have characters. A good 2 or 3 characters from series that needs them and 2 or 3 from a series that hasn't had a character already, sounds fair.



Not to put you down, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. This kind of support is in the direction of series that already has enough characters. And I LOVE Waluigi man. I seriously do. He is the only character aside from Shy Guy that I play in the Mario spin-offs. I was bummed by his Smash 4 de-confirmation. But at the same time, I understand why it had happened. This kind of support is no different than the Pichu fans, though they have more justified reasons for being upset. But it is even less fair to give other series that have been without deserved support for so long, the cold shoulder. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda have a fair amount of characters. If there were going to be more than 5 slots, I'm sure each of them would get 1 more character. I'm not saying Pichu and Waluigi shouldn't be in Smash Bros. or P:M. I am saying that if we are on the limit of 5 more characters, we should not play selfish because (X) Mario / Zelda / Pokemon character did not make the cut.

Game series like Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Pannel De Pon (Tetris Attack), Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Balloon Fight, and so on, have been shafted left and right.

Example 1: "Oh poo, my favorite Mario / Pokemon / Zelda character didn't get in out of the 5-7 we already have."
vs
Example 2: "Ugh, why are Metroid and DKC only getting 2 characters?"
vs
Example 3: "Man, (insert unrepped series here) STILL doesn't have a character to play as. That is my favorite series."

Oh boy, people are going to be real sad about skipping out on another Pokemon, Zelda, or Mario character. Especially when other series are left high and dry with no more than a main character or 2, if not none. See my point?

Personally I'd like to see:

Mother rep (existing series that needs another character)

Metroid rep (existing series that needs another character)

Isaac (new series character)

Andy (new series character)

Ray (new series character)

But that's just me. Maybe I should've voted like this from the beginning...

 

[krazyzyko]

I know he's not on the list but Ryu from street fighter would be perfect. He was in SNES and Snake kinda has the same layout as him.

B- Hadouken (1st is slow, 2nd is normal, 3rd is fast and 4th is a strong fireball which gives 2 hits)

Side B- Tatsumaki (covers more ground if charged)

Up B- Shoryuken

Down B- Focus attack (breaks guard, has super armor for 1 hit, can be jump canceled)

He has plenty of moves to choose from for his normals.
It'd be cool if his aerials would have 0 landing lag like in SF. No wallkick, slow movement(dash, run, jump) laggy cooldown specials to even it out.

 

[TheNotSoShyGuy]

Not to put you down, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. This kind of support is in the direction of series that already has enough characters. And I LOVE Waluigi man. I seriously do. He is the only character aside from Shy Guy that I play in the Mario spin-offs. I was bummed by his Smash 4 de-confirmation. But at the same time, I understand why it had happened. This kind of support is no different than the Pichu fans, though they have more justified reasons for being upset. But it is even less fair to give other series that have been without deserved support for so long, the cold shoulder. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda have a fair amount of characters. If there were going to be more than 5 slots, I'm sure each of them would get 1 more character. I'm not saying Pichu and Waluigi shouldn't be in Smash Bros. or P:M. I am saying that if we are on the limit of 5 more characters, we should not play selfish because (X) Mario / Zelda / Pokemon character did not make the cut.

Game series like Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Pannel De Pon (Tetris Attack), Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Balloon Fight, and so on, have been shafted left and right.

Example 1: "Oh poo, my favorite Mario / Pokemon / Zelda character didn't get in out of the 5-7 we already have."
vs
Example 2: "Ugh, why are Metroid and DKC only getting 2 characters?"
vs
Example 3: "Man, (insert unrepped series here) STILL doesn't have a character to play as. That is my favorite series."

Oh boy, people are going to be real sad about skipping out on another Pokemon, Zelda, or Mario character. Especially when other series are left high and dry with no more than a main character or 2, if not none. See my point?

I think I do, but in my opinion, you could replace Waluigi with any character that people are iffy about. A hated character could be put in to say, "take a second look at this character, you may like them more than you realize." Unfortunately yes I do realize that Mario may be over represented. I thought I understood you, but I may have been ignorant. (Even though being awake a midnight didn't really help my already poor argument skills.) To be honest, I kinda wish that they outright confirmed a long time ago if there were no more characters, then my heart strings wouldn't be as tugged when a certain character wasn't announced. Then again we wouldn't have this speculation thread to determine which characters the players like/hate.

On a side note, I see that we agree on side characters in the Mario spin-offs, Shy Guy and Waluigi.

 

[Zzuxon]

In my wildest clone engine dreams, this would be the clone negine roster:
Mewtwo
Roy
Toad
Skull Kid
Ridley
Isaac
Another new series, hopefully Ray, Andy, Tom Nook, or Sukapon.

In my view, giving the Big three more characters is definitely justifiable. Mario, Zelda, and pokemon, are by far nintendo's biggest series, which means additional characters are warranted.
But beyond that, their size means they have many popular, important characters, meaning that calling 4 mario or zelda characters "fair" is very debatable.

My plan doesn't favor pokemon over mario and zelda, gives the criminally understaffed metroid a second character, and includes 2 new series. It seems equitable to me.

 

[Shin F.]

I know he's not on the list but Ryu from street fighter would be perfect. He was in SNES and Snake kinda has the same layout as him.

B- Hadouken (1st is slow, 2nd is normal, 3rd is fast and 4th is a strong fireball which gives 2 hits)

Side B- Tatsumaki (covers more ground if charged)

Up B- Shoryuken

Down B- Focus attack (breaks guard, has super armor for 1 hit, can be jump canceled)

He has plenty of moves to choose from for his normals.
It'd be cool if his aerials would have 0 landing lag like in SF. No wallkick, slow movement(dash, run, jump) laggy cooldown specials to even it out.

He's not in Brawl, so he's not eligible.

 

[Solbliminal]

I think I do, but in my opinion, you could replace Waluigi with any character that people are iffy about. A hated character could be put in to say, "take a second look at this character, you may like them more than you realize." Unfortunately yes I do realize that Mario may be over represented. I thought I understood you, but I may have been ignorant. (Even though being awake a midnight didn't really help my already poor argument skills.) To be honest, I kinda wish that they outright confirmed a long time ago if there were no more characters, then my heart strings wouldn't be as tugged when a certain character wasn't announced. Then again we wouldn't have this speculation thread to determine which characters the players like/hate.

On a side note, I see that we agree on side characters in the Mario spin-offs, Shy Guy and Waluigi.

Like I said. I love the character Waluigi. I wanted him in Smash ages ago. Unfortunately he isn't in Melee, Brawl, or Smash 4, but I'm not going to go out of my way to take a slot from a series that hasn't even gotten enough, if not a single character.

In my wildest clone engine dreams, this would be the clone negine roster:
Mewtwo
Roy
Toad
Skull Kid
Ridley
Isaac
Another new series, hopefully Ray, Andy, Tom Nook, or Sukapon.

In my view, giving the Big three more characters is definitely justifiable. Mario, Zelda, and pokemon, are by far nintendo's biggest series, which means additional characters are warranted.
But beyond that, their size means they have many popular, important characters, meaning that calling 4 mario or zelda characters "fair" is very debatable.

Yes they are big series, but no it is not justifiable. When you neglect other types of Nintendo fans, you neglect the chance to expand on the Smash fanbase. Sure Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are among the titans of Nintendo. But Donkey Kong and Metroid are too, and they've received very poor support from Sakurai. Dixie and K. Rool are among the most requested DK newcomers. Ridley has been Smash's all time desired character. We are really going to choose Toad or Waluigi over characters like that when the Mario series easily has 5 - 7 characters? Makes little to no sense whatsoever.

My plan doesn't favor pokemon over mario and zelda,

It is rather hypocritical to favor one overstaffed series over another.

gives the criminally understaffed metroid a second character,

We all know Ridley deserves a slot. I can agree with this.

and includes 2 new series. It seems equitable to me.

No arguments here.

 

[TheNotSoShyGuy]

Hmmm… I'm thinking of characters that could make it in. If I was the PMBR…

- I would pick a highly popular assist trophy because they already have a model to base colors and art style from, but need some adjustments to make the model better (Isaac or Lyn)
- A character that everyone and their mother want in Smash Bros. (Ridley, which me personally have no opinion on)
- An obscure character that people probably have never heard of (Takamaru)
- A character from a franchise that needs a rep or two that has not been applied to the previous 3 things I have listed so far, (K. Rool, Ninten, etc)
- A character that could be a clone of someone else for easy workload and to fill more space quicky.

That is just me attempting to get into the mind of the PMBR. I don't know how they think, I wish I was in there to learn, but then I would be under NDA.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Ridley wouldnt be a second character, Ridley would be the third metroid rep

also how did we have a Skullgirls Post and nobody told me this, you guys are jerks

 

[Solbliminal]

Hmmm… I'm thinking of characters that could make it in. If I was the PMBR…

- I would pick a highly popular assist trophy because they already have a model to base colors and art style from, but need some adjustments to make the model better (Isaac or Lyn)
- A character that everyone and their mother want in Smash Bros. (Ridley, which me personally have no opinion on)
- An obscure character that people probably have never heard of (Takamaru)
- A character from a franchise that needs a rep or two that has not been applied to the previous 3 things I have listed so far, (K. Rool, Ninten, etc)
- A character that could be a clone of someone else for easy workload and to fill more space quicky.

That is just me attempting to get into the mind of the PMBR. I don't know how they think, I wish I was in there to learn, but then I would be under NDA.

PMBR to my knowledge does what they believe most of the fans will appreciate while being professional about it. They also make almost everything from scratch, so they will not use the assist trophy models. It is easier to provide the best quality when something is made from the ground up.

There is no general mentality for who they choose, other than who is most popular by demand, as we've not even seen a single "new" character yet. If anything, this poll gauged what characters would be acceptable. Since not all characters received the front page treatment, a handful of them didn't get voted on unless someone here is incredibly active enough to read up on who is eligible. So to be quite honest, any characters between B-Tier and S-Tier are desirable choices.

 

[TheNotSoShyGuy]

I know they are going to make the model from scratch, I just said that so they can get the art style and colors correct.

 

[Solbliminal]

I know they are going to make the model from scratch, I just said that so they can get the art style and colors correct.

The way you said it made it sound like they should adjust the assist trophy model rather than build one from scratch.

 

[Cool Blue]

I understand that Pokemon has a lot of characters, but NOBODY complained when Mewtwo was announced. I just don't get why people try to pull that same excuse when Pichu has basically the same status that Mewtwo does.

 

[Solbliminal]

I understand that Pokemon has a lot of characters, but NOBODY complained when Mewtwo was announced. I just don't get why people try to pull that same excuse when Pichu has basically the same status that Mewtwo does.

Nobody complained about Mewtwo because no one expected Roy or Mewtwo at all. There were no guidelines to our character limit, and nobody outside of PMBR's backroom and close social group even knew of the existence of the Clone Engine until after they were announced.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Nobody complained about Mewtwo because no one expected Roy or Mewtwo at all.

And because everyone likes Mewtwo.

 

[Shin F.]

Nobody complained about Mewtwo because no one expected Roy or Mewtwo at all.

Correction: No one complained about Mewtwo because:

1) He's extremely popular
2) He has an original moveset

 

[Solbliminal]

Correction: No one complained about Mewtwo because:

1) He's extremely popular
2) He has an original moveset

That is just the ladder.

 

[Cool Blue]

Nobody complained about Mewtwo because no one expected Roy or Mewtwo at all. There were no guidelines to our character limit, and nobody outside of PMBR's backroom and close social group even knew of the existence of the Clone Engine until after they were announced.

Mewtwo was announced second so people knew the guidelines by then.

 

[Shin F.]

Mewtwo was announced second so people knew the guidelines by then.

Yeah, Mewtwo was announced in October and the guidelines were laid out in September. Still:

1) He's extremely popular
2) He has an original moveset

Neither of which Pichu has as of yet. That could change, don't get me wrong - I'd like to see Pichu with OrangeSodaGuy's moveset. But this is how the general fanbase sees things.

 

[Cool Blue]

Yeah, Mewtwo was announced in October and the guidelines were laid out in September. Still:

Neither of which Pichu has as of yet. That could change, don't get me wrong - I'd like to see Pichu with OrangeSodaGuy's moveset. But this is how the general fanbase sees things.

I know these things. The reason I am mad is because some people just diss Pichu because Pokemon is an over represented series.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yeah, Mewtwo was announced in October and the guidelines were laid out in September. Still:

Neither of which Pichu has as of yet. That could change, don't get me wrong - I'd like to see Pichu with OrangeSodaGuy's moveset. But this is how the general fanbase sees things.

Shin pretty much said the same thing I was going to say word for word, quotes and all. Also consider that their guidelines said that they may not even fill all of the slots. Mewtwo was a must. Pichu is not.

I know these things. The reason I am mad is because some people just diss Pichu because Pokemon is an over represented series.

People diss Pichu because he is a bad character. Kind of like how you rag on Ridley for struggling with proportions, like a majority of others. You really don't have room to argue.

 

[Cool Blue]

Shin pretty much said the same thing I was going to say word for word, quotes and all. Also consider that their guidelines said that they may not even fill all of the slots. Mewtwo was a must. Pichu is not.



People diss Pichu because he is a bad character. Kind of like how you rag on Ridley for struggling with proportions, like a majority of others. You really don't have room to argue.

While Pichu was undoubtedly the worst character in Melee, that doesn't mean that he HAS to be bad in Project M.
Look at Kirby. He was GARBAGE in Melee, and now he is really great in Project M. Why can't the PMBR do the same with Pichu?

 

[Solbliminal]

While Pichu was undoubtedly the worst character in Melee, that doesn't mean that he HAS to be bad in Project M.
Look at Kirby. He was GARBAGE in Melee, and now he is really great in Project M. Why can't the PMBR do the same with Pichu?

You are missing the point. Majority does not want him back generally because he is just flat out unpopular as a Smash Bros. character. He brings nothing unique to the table like Mewtwo does, and his undoubtedly the worst character considered for Melee's roster.

And how could you even begin to compare Kirby to Pichu? Kirby was a veteran far before Pichu even was brought into existence. And garbage? What are you talking about? I don't even main Kirby and I could play circles around a majority of the cast using him. Pichu doesn't even begin to compare. It has nothing to do with how PMBR can make a character play, because that applies to every single character addition. That is a poor argument.

 

[Shin F.]

You are missing the point. Majority does not want him back generally because he is just flat out unpopular as a Smash Bros. character. He brings nothing unique to the table like Mewtwo does, and his undoubtedly the worst character considered for Melee's roster.

And how could you even begin to compare Kirby to Pichu? Kirby is veteran far before Pichu even was brought into existence. And garbage? What are you talking about? I don't even main Kirby and I could play circles around a majority of the cast using him. Pichu doesn't even begin to compare. It has nothing to do with how PMBR can make a character play, because that applies to every single character addition. That is a poor argument.

The good argument is his status as the last remaining veteran with no representation at all in Project M. The argument that he was garbage in Melee also means nothing, considering what PMBR could do with him. The only real argument against him is lack of support from the community.

 

[Cool Blue]

The good argument is his status as the last remaining veteran with no representation at all in Project M. The argument that he was garbage in Melee also means nothing, considering what PBR could do with him. The only real argument against him is lack of support from the community.

Exactly. My original post was just to show the biggest argument against Pichu didn't make much sense.

 

[Shin F.]

Exactly. My original post was just to show the biggest argument against Pichu didn't make much sense.

The sad thing is, though, that the argument does make sense. Fan favorites almost always should have higher priority over characters that aren't so well-liked. Pichu's veteran status helps, but whether that alone is enough remains to be seen.

 

[Solbliminal]

The good argument is his status as the last remaining veteran with no representation at all in Project M.

Even that is not a good enough argument and you know that.

The argument that he was garbage in Melee also means nothing, considering what PBR could do with him. The only real argument against him is lack of support from the community.

I never said it had to do with his playstyle, you should re-read my statement Shin. It is the fact the character does not offer anything interesting as a variety compared to what we already have. Even you have made this argument about certain characters. We are looking for unique additions.

 

[Saito]

And how could you even begin to compare Kirby to Pichu? Kirby was a veteran far before Pichu even was brought into existence. And garbage? What are you talking about? I don't even main Kirby and I could play circles around a majority of the cast using him. Pichu doesn't even begin to compare. It has nothing to do with how PMBR can make a character play, because that applies to every single character addition. That is a poor argument.

Dropping in to talk about this.

That's personal experience of usage of a character. More than likely you don't play in extremely high level Melee play because it's very likely that the bolded would not happen.

Just because you performed well doesn't make the character good across the board. If that was the case then I could easily say that Pichu wasn't garbage because I personally could play circles around the entire cast.

It's a reason that Kirby is the second to last on the tier list, along with the only person to have a negative match-up against Pichu. It's also what makes the prospect of Project M Pichu even more delicious because look at how good kirby is in P:M.

/my2cents

 

[Saito]

Also to make another point.


This is Project M. It's not their Job to represent Nintendo's history

This means that people don't have to look at what characters deserve representation as opposed to looking at what characters might be really fun to play as.

However, people consider the status of smash as a crossover fighting game so they do think about what nintendo characters they want to see in as well.

Everyone has their own balance of the above two statements.

----------------
I lean more towards the fun factor as opposed to the representation. They could bring in original characters and I would still be happy just as long as they are fun to play as.

I understand people wanting non represented people being in as well, but the only reason I can see them wanting them in is because they think that these characters have potential in a smash brothers game.

Characters like Issac and Ray fall into this place. They both have a lot to offer, are not represented other than assist trophy's and just in theory sound like a lot of fun to play as.

 

[Shin F.]

Even that is not a good enough argument and you know that.

Good or not, it is the best legitimate argument for him.

I never said it had to do with his playstyle, you should re-read my statement Shin. It is the fact the character does not offer anything interesting as a variety compared to what we already have. Even you have made this argument about certain characters. We are looking for unique additions.

That particular statement wasn't directed at you in particular, it was just a general statement.

But yes, we do want unique characters more than anything. That's why Isaac and Ray are so desirable. But you yourself said it: PMBR can make anyone unique and interesting. Lack of uniqueness isn't much of a reason for excluding anyone. If a character has a particularly unique aspect that no one else does (like Isaac and his psynergy or Ray and his heavy use of projectiles), then it is a very strong reason for including them, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of making seemingly boring characters unique in their own way. I may sound like a broken record, but really, OrangeSodaGuy had a great way of separating Pichu from the others.

I sympathize with Pichu users because I loved Roy in Melee, and I was pretty bummed when I couldn't use him in Brawl (he's the reason I got into Brawl Modding) and ecstatic when he returned in Project M. Now, Pichu users have hope for their main to return in a new, awesome and unique way. They've been teased about it not once, but twice with the April Fools vid and the stock icon in the 3.0 release. I think they deserve some kind of recognition.

 

[Saito]

I sympathize with Pichu users because I loved Roy in Melee, and I was pretty bummed when I couldn't use him in Brawl (he's the reason I got into Brawl Modding) and ecstatic when he returned in Project M. Now, Pichu users have hope for their main to return in a new, awesome and unique way. They've been teased about it not once, but twice with the April Fools vid and the stock icon in the 3.0 release. I think they deserve some kind of recognition.

I can't like this post enough.

 

[Cool Blue]

Even that is not a good enough argument and you know that.

How is that not a good argument?
I'm pretty sure Roy and Mewtwo fans would be pissed if either one of them didn't make it in but the other two did.
Pichu has every right to be in Project M. The only thing he lacks is community support.

 

[Saito]

How is that not a good argument?
I'm pretty sure Roy and Mewtwo fans would be pissed if either one of them didn't make it in but the other two did.
Pichu has every right to be in Project M. The only thing he lacks is community support.

He means that Pichu being a Melee Veteran isn't a good argument.

 

[Shin F.]

I personally think it's a great argument. Roy wouldn't have even been considered if he wasn't a Smash veteran. A character from a single Japan-only game with only one other appearance in the form of DLC? Lyn would've been chosen over Roy for sure if he wasn't in Melee.

The thing is, we all support unlikely characters. I support Ninten. Sol, you support Shadow and Kafei. Lightdasher I think was the name of the person supported Medli. TheNotSoShyGuy supports Waluigi. Let's not fool ourselves. Those characters, no matter how much we love them and no matter how unique they could be have very, very low chances unless a large portion of PMBR are fans of those characters. The clincher that separates those unlikely characters from this particular unlikely character is that he has people that already main him. He's already been playable before. None of the others have. That fact alone was what made Roy a shoe-in for the Clone Engine.

 

[Cool Blue]

He means that Pichu being a Melee Veteran isn't a good argument.

Yes, I know that is what he meant.

 

[Cool Blue]

I personally think it's a great argument. Roy wouldn't have even been considered if he wasn't a Smash veteran. A character from a single Japan-only game with only one other appearance in the form of DLC? Lyn would've been chosen over Roy for sure if he wasn't in Melee.

The thing is, we all support unlikely characters. I support Ninten. Sol, you support Shadow and Kafei. Lightdasher I think was the name of the person supported Medli. TheNotSoShyGuy supports Waluigi. Let's not fool ourselves. Those characters, no matter how much we love them and no matter how unique they could be have very, very low chances unless a large portion of PMBR are fans of those characters. The clincher that separates those unlikely characters from this particular unlikely character is that he has people that already main him. He's already been playable before. None of the others have. That fact alone was what made Roy a shoe-in for the Clone Engine.

Well then Pichu should be a shoe-in because he was playable too.

 

[TheNotSoShyGuy]

I just thought of this and I am not a brawl modder yet so correct me if am wrong. Can new franchises, if added have their own victory music? Like is there a flag you set to determine what "franchise" they are from? I mean Meta Knight has his own music even though he is from the Kirby series, so I assume it may be possible, and I know icons are possible due to Dracula's Castle. Can anybody confirm this for me if you can?

 

[Shin F.]

Well then Pichu should be a shoe-in because he was playable too.

That's not quite true, either. Roy is a lot more popular than Pichu. Granted, Roy's popularity is a direct result of his being a Melee veteran. So while his veteran status is the ultimate reason, I should correct myself in saying it's not the only reason.

It's a complicated issue. It really can't be viewed in black and white. Every aspect has to be taken into consideration.

I just thought of this and I am not a brawl modder yet so correct me if am wrong. Can new franchises, if added have their own victory music? Like is there a flag you set to determine what "franchise" they are from? I mean Meta Knight has his own music even though he is from the Kirby series, so I assume it may be possible, and I know icons are possible due to Dracula's Castle. Can anybody confirm this for me if you can?

You can. Dantarion's CSE is capable of adding music, and you can also assign new victory themes with it. (There is, in fact, a code to give every character an individual victory theme like Meta Knight.)