New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[HayabusaTaichou]

Being Pretentious is a bad thing.

 

[Solbliminal]

Probably myself, since I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who's played the series lol

Okay.. First off, I held back from saying anything to the first remark made towards me. Mostly because I was unsure if you were under the assumption that I've never played the game myself.

Second of all, I've played the living hell out of Custom Robo back when I used to own a copy for the GameCube. Don't be so full of yourself as if you have higher knowledge of the series "just because you played it obsessively". Hell, I've known people who have played a game more times than most others, and they still don't know crap about good game design. That is not to say I know more than anyone else, but I most certainly understand enough to know what pleases the general public. Sure it has been a while since I've actually played the game, but don't think I'm doing this blindly. I most certainly am doing my research. I'm not just ass slapping moves in. I'm trying to maintain balance between Project M's atmosphere, Custom Robo's playstyle based on gameplay, and what is appealing to the general public.

And lastly, where were you when this Ray support even started? If you are such a Custom Robo fan, why are you choosing now to start showing it instead of pages back when this discussion started? Why weren't you the one starting the discussion yourself if you have so much to say about Ray? I'll say it again. I'm not perfect, but I know what is desired by most of the people voting on Ray to begin with. I've explained the core gameplay of the Custom Robo series to people curious about Ray, and have even got support from another avid Custom Robo player who actually enjoys my moveset concept. You are just one of the few who is just displeased with it, so sorry to say you are just going to continue being displeased if you keep acting like your "infinite knowledge" supersedes everyone else's. Keep in mind we are making a Smash Bros. character and not some dream build Custom Robo.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

 

[Shadic]

@ Fortress and @ HayabusaTaichou - Stop.

Thread continues.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Did anyone ever care enough to make an Ashley moveset?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Did anyone ever care enough to make an Ashley moveset?

No.

EDIT: Just "No", I have nothing else to add.

EDIT2: Must... resist... urge... to add... obvious snarky comment!

 

[Sharic X]

No.

EDIT: Just "No", I have nothing else to add.

EDIT2: Must... resist... urge... to add... obvious snarky comment!

3 hours later...

[EDIT4657485: Still no.]

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Did this thread nearly get locked/was locked and I wasn't at fault?

C'mon guys don't lose the

way. Obey the rules.

Anyways, no an ashely moveset hasn't been made yet.

The more I hear talk about ray the more I like it. Can't wait to see the rest of sobliminal's work.

I tried to be as on topic as I could don't kill me.

 

[Solbliminal]

I'm quite fond of Ashley myself. I'll see what I can do about making her a moveset after I finish Ray's.

 

[Marthmario]

Out of curiosity, why has Daisy not been suggested?

 

[Shin F.]

Out of curiosity, why has Daisy not been suggested?

Because nobody cared enough to suggest her? I think most people would prefer Toad or Waluigi if Mario got a new character.

 

[Solbliminal]

Out of curiosity, why has Daisy not been suggested?

Because this:

Spoiler

(art by Penril)

 

[Marthmario]

Because nobody cared enough to suggest her? I think most people would prefer Toad or Waluigi if Mario got a new character.

I only mention it because she's been a popularly requested character/has a vocal fan-base.
Also dat art.

 

[Solbliminal]

I only mention it because she's been a popularly requested character/has a vocal fan-base.
Also dat art.

I would say vocal, but most definitely not popular. It is about the same as the Waluigi situation here.

 

[Marthmario]

When do you guys expect a reveal for P:M?

 

[Solbliminal]

When do you guys expect a reveal for P:M?

It is honestly hard to say. I would hope sometime before Smash 4 gets close to its release.

 

[Fortress]

And lastly, where were you when this Ray support even started?/

Like, 150 pages back. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. Like, when I had posted a Primid and Skull Kid moveset back. I actually kind of forgot that I've been here in this thread since, well, pretty much the beginning.

And do you really expect everybody to like your moveset? You shouldn't, you're going to have a couple of people who don't. I don't, so I threw out my own. You should get used to it. Ray's cool, has an awesome pool of moves to choose from, but we disagree on the jab, and I'm not going to turn around and tell you that I think your idea is better because of some drawings and long paragraphs.

Go back, and read my moveset again, and really read it this time. You know that it's more than some crap 'dream Robo build'. If it was my dream build, we'd be talking about the Swift here, and not the Ray.

Also, still haven't heard your full moveset, or been told where (if) you've posted it previously.

 

[Solbliminal]

Like, 150 pages back. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. Like, when I had posted a Primid and Skull Kid moveset back.

...when this Ray support even started?

Talking about it and getting support are two different things. The support started when I continued to pop the subject until it caught fire.

 

[Fortress]

Talking about it and getting support are two different things. The support started when I continued to pop the subject until it caught fire.

No Yeah, I remember. I was the guy who was shooting your idea down because Ray was too tiny in its own series, and because it was really projectile heavy. I'm not going to say that I didn't warm up to it because you kept going on about it, but I remember, because I was the guy poo-pooing on your suggestions.

Not sure why this matters, I don't care about you getting credit for it, so I don't need to keep being reminded that you brought it up and that you kept driving for its support. Just tell me some more of your moves so that I can bounce ideas off of you. I thought that was the point of me going through making my own moveset up for you.

SHOW ME YA' MOVES, ALREADY. LET'S TALK RAY.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Just tell me some more of your moves

Missed opportunity to use "Show me your moves"

Go directly to Jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200

 

[Fortress]

Missed opportunity to use "Show me your moves"

Go directly to Jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200

Did I really? I was already in edit before you'd posted that. Even considered putting in a video clip.

Anyway, Sol, let's rap; what's your reasoning behind having a projectile jab, what will you do to make up for Ray's inability to pick people up off of the ground with a jab (I'm guessing the hitboxes for the projectiles will be small?), and what can we see in terms of hitstun/endlag? Will there be an infinite that Ray can perform? It's implied by the sketches that it will be a three-hit-and-done kind of thing.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Missed opportunity to use "Show me your moves"

Go directly to Jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200

Can I collect 201? HA, I'm wearing glasses and that makes me the victor!

 

[Solbliminal]

No, I remember. I was the guy who was shooting your idea down because Ray was too tiny in its own series, and because it was really projectile heavy. I'm not going to say that I didn't warm up to it because you kept going on about it, but I remember, because I was the guy poo-pooing on your suggestions.

Not sure why this matters, I don't care about you getting credit for it, so I don't need to keep being reminded that you brought it up and that you kept driving for its support. Just tell me some more of your moves so that I can bounce ideas off of you. I thought that was the point of me going through making my own moveset up for you.

That wasn't the point of my reply. The reply was towards your remarks as if no one has played the series before. Don't expect people to listen to arrogance. That is the last way to get your character support. If you read you will notice I'm completely fine with suggestions and cooperation. I've even said this several times throughout the thread. Rasgar can even back me up on that. The moveset was never about credit. It is about appeal, which I already know not everyone is going to like Ray, even if I take your suggestions.

I've got a lot going on, hence why there has been lack of updates with the moveset visuals. The moveset is by no means complete. You would already be seeing a moveset sheet if I did that. But I do have move concepts written out. Here are a few:

-Claw/Grapple Gun: Functions as a grab similar to that of Link or Samus.

-Drill Gun: A multi-hitting move that functions similar to a one-path PK Thunder. So obviously a lot of continuous hitstun based on charge duration.

-Gravity Gun: A small hitbox range black hole that appears on screen a set distance based on length of charge. Think Dormammu from UMvC 3.

-Stun Gun: Planned to use as grab pummel.

-Charge: Dashing A attack obviously.

-Standard Bomb: Was planned for Side-Smash, may re-map. Travels a 45 degree angle for a set distance and drops straight down after reaching maximum height/distance. Has KB based on charge.

-Standard 3-Shot Gun: Set as a jab string with very little hitstun. It is a trade off for his mobility and being able to use it during air dashes. L-Cancelable.

-Blade Gun: Converted to a melee blade for his B-Air. A good move for air juggles.

-Knuckle Gun: Set for either his forward or up tilt to pop the opponent into the air.

-Air Dashes: A main function for Ray as part of his air game. Backwards dashes can be utilized to combo with B-Air, U-Air, and D-Air, while Forward dashes can utilize spacing and F-Air.

The focus is to make his specials set-ups for his kill shots via: Bombs or other high KB moves. I'm still researching what would make a decent pod for his game style. The guns are part of his damage game

 

[Fortress]

-Claw/Grapple Gun: Functions as a grab similar to that of Link or Samus.

Kind of figured that your grab would incorporate either this or the Drill Gun, though, would this attack be a side-special like ZSS's?

-Drill Gun: A multi-hitting move that functions similar to a one-path PK Thunder. So obviously a lot of continuous hitstun based on charge duration.

Continuous hitboxes implies that you don't intend to use the Drill Gun as a grab, if you decide to use it at all. Are you going to have this as a side-special? Charge duration implies a Smash Attack, which I always figured you'd use a Bomb for, for heavy damage and knockback which would be visually represented as well.

-Gravity Gun: A small hitbox range black hole that appears on screen a set distance based on length of charge. Think Dormammu from UMvC 3.

I'm pretty confused about this one. Again, the phrase 'charge duration' implies that you designed this as a Smash Attack, and the only one that makes sense to me is up-smash, since it's similar in its own way to Snake's (both being a projectile). Now, in Custom Robo, this weapon is intended to keep your opponent on the ground and out of the air, and would have to serve a similar role in Smash, but I can only see that working if it functioned like Zelda's Din's Fire. Let's compare the attack to other attacks in Smash.

-Stun Gun: Planned to use as grab pummel.

That makes enough sense.

-Charge: Dashing A attack obviously.

There's no debate on that one.

-Standard Bomb: Was planned for Side-Smash, may re-map. Travels a 45 degree angle for a set distance and drops straight down after reaching maximum height/distance. Has KB based on charge.

I figured it'd just explode in front of Ray like Samus's f-smash. It sounds a lot like Snake's u-smash, but his u-smash is effective in that you can chain the first hit into the missile thanks to the DACUS technique. It's a unique concept for Ray, but I don't see it practical as a side-smash at least.

-Standard 3-Shot Gun: Set as a jab string with very little hitstun. It is a trade off for his mobility and being able to use it during air dashes. L-Cancelable.

This one confuses me. It's L-cancellable, but it's a ground attack? You're going to have to explain this one more. Also, I figured that Ray would be able to, I don't know, slide back or slide forward during his jab to close distance or put distance between himself and his opponent, similarly to how you can do sliding shots in Custom Robo. Then again, I don't see the practicality of that in a Smash setting. Anyway, explain more what you mean by a jab being l-cancellable.

-Blade Gun: Converted to a melee blade for his B-Air. A good move for air juggles.

For the move to be an effective juggle, I'd like to hear what kind of hitbox placement and knockback the attack would have. I don't know too many b-airs that are outright juggles, but I know some d-airs act like them (like Roy's, sort of).

-Knuckle Gun: Set for either his forward or up tilt to pop the opponent into the air.

That's what I was saying, seeing as the trajectory in Custom Robo puts your opponent above you. I say it should be on his up-tilt, personally, and still think that it should be a part of his jab.

-Air Dashes: A main function for Ray as part of his air game. Backwards dashes can be utilized to combo with B-Airs, while Forward dashes can utilize spacing.

I can see this as his forward-special in the air. It's a lot like Rob, but Ray does utilize this in its series.

The focus is to make his specials set-ups for his kill shots via: Bombs or other high KB moves. I'm still researching what would make a decent pod for his game style. The guns are part of his damage game

Umbrella, Wall, and Acrobat Pods would make the most sense. Umbrella for recovering and hitting opponents above Ray, Acrobat to give Ray momentum boosts (kind of like ROB), and Wall just to use something that looks visually damaging, and not just a plain explosion.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

When do you guys expect a reveal for P:M?

I'm placing my bets on a little before or a little after this year's E3. The PMBR definitely won't reveal him or her during E3 so as to not get on Nintendo's bad side.

The earliest for me could be May- or June-ish. So a little more than 2 months away if that's the case, but if we're expecting the character reveal later then it'll probably be around July- or August-ish.

Or the PMBR could do what they did last year and have a showing in September and October. But waiting for that'll be TORTURE.

 

[Solbliminal]

Kind of figured that your grab would incorporate either this or the Drill Gun, though, would this attack be a side-special like ZSS's?

It would be his standard grab function.

Continuous hitboxes implies that you don't intend to use the Drill Gun as a grab, if you decide to use it at all. Are you going to have this as a side-special? Charge duration implies a Smash Attack, which I always figured you'd use a Bomb for, for heavy damage and knockback which would be visually represented as well.

Charge can also be used in specials, as shown by Ike, Marth, Roy, Luigi, and Pikachu. I intended this to be a Special.

I'm pretty confused about this one. Again, the phrase 'charge duration' implies that you designed this as a Smash Attack, and the only one that makes sense to me is up-smash, since it's similar in its own way to Snake's (both being a projectile). Now, in Custom Robo, this weapon is intended to keep your opponent on the ground and out of the air, and would have to serve a similar role in Smash, but I can only see that working if it functioned like Zelda's Din's Fire. Let's compare the attack to other attacks in Smash.

This move is unique in its own right, but you can compare it to Din's Fire, yes. A Din's Fire with the function of pulling your opponent down via trip/footstool reaction would be quite a concept.

I figured it'd just explode in front of Ray like Samus's f-smash. It sounds a lot like Snake's u-smash, but his u-smash is effective in that you can chain the first hit into the missile thanks to the DACUS technique. It's a unique concept for Ray, but I don't see it practical as a side-smash at least.

It would be an anti-air. But I do see this being more functional if mapped to a different command.

This one confuses me. It's L-cancellable, but it's a ground attack? You're going to have to explain this one more. Also, I figured that Ray would be able to, I don't know, slide back or slide forward during his jab to close distance or put distance between himself and his opponent, similarly to how you can do sliding shots in Custom Robo. Then again, I don't see the practicality of that in a Smash setting. Anyway, explain more what you mean by a jab being l-cancellable.

L-Cancelable implies it is his N-Air as well.

For the move to be an effective juggle, I'd like to hear what kind of hitbox placement and knockback the attack would have. I don't know too many b-airs that are outright juggles, but I know some d-airs act like them (like Roy's, sort of).

Well since it is an energy blade, I see it working similar to Donkey Kong's U-Air in terms of juggle, but with a hitbox more like Ike's F-Air.

That's what I was saying, seeing as the trajectory in Custom Robo puts your opponent above you. I say it should be on his up-tilt, personally, and still think that it should be a part of his jab.

I'm holding back from using too many straight out physical attacks. This defeats the purpose of Ray's nearly range only playstyle. This is what people are expecting from Ray. In a sense, P:M's Mega Man from the common comparison people have made.

I can see this as his forward-special in the air. It's a lot like Rob, but Ray does utilize this in its series.

I had this concepted for a unique function to Ray where tapping (or double tapping) forwards or backwards mid-air would initiate an air dash in that direction. R.O.B. is limited to slow moving up and forward dashes. Ray would have forward and backward dashes set to an immediate drop rather than angled attack cancel drops like R.O.B. has.

Umbrella, Wall, and Acrobat Pods would make the most sense. Umbrella for recovering and hitting opponents above Ray, Acrobat to give Ray momentum boosts (kind of like ROB), and Wall just to use something that looks visually damaging, and not just a plain explosion.

These all sound fine. I'll research them to see how I can visually present them.

 

[Fortress]

I feel like the Stun Gun would still make a nice n-air, with the multi-hit 'aura'-type attack similar to Mewtwo's n-air. I can imagine it being a low-startup, low-endlag move that's easier to hit with than a projectile n-air. I also feel like Ray shouldn't be totally without physical attacks. I can see Ray using the boosters on its legs for tilts, like I suggested before. I mean, Samus never attacks physically beyond her Screw Attack in any game she's in.

 

[Solbliminal]

I feel like the Stun Gun would still make a nice n-air, with the multi-hit 'aura'-type attack similar to Mewtwo's n-air. I can imagine it being a low-startup, low-endlag move that's easier to hit with than a projectile n-air. I also feel like Ray shouldn't be totally without physical attacks. I can see Ray using the boosters on its legs for tilts, like I suggested before. I mean, Samus never attacks physically beyond her Screw Attack in any game she's in.

The same can be said about Mega Man really. I'm quite fine with Ray's N-Air remaining a neutral fire. I mean we are trying to differentiate him, not make him "like" other characters. And if he comes off as generic or a flat out wannabe Samus/Snake/Link, it is going to be a far worse reception. This is why I pitched the pure ranged character concept. This received a lot of positive feedback.

 

[Shin F.]

I feel like the Stun Gun would still make a nice n-air, with the multi-hit 'aura'-type attack similar to Mewtwo's n-air. I can imagine it being a low-startup, low-endlag move that's easier to hit with than a projectile n-air. I also feel like Ray shouldn't be totally without physical attacks. I can see Ray using the boosters on its legs for tilts, like I suggested before. I mean, Samus never attacks physically beyond her Screw Attack in any game she's in.

Now I know Other M was a travesty, but that's no reason to completely ignore it. It did have some pretty good gameplay, after all.

 

[Fortress]

Now I know Other M was a travesty, but that's no reason to completely ignore it. It did have some pretty good gameplay, after all.

Metroid Other What?

 

[Solbliminal]

Metroid Other What?

Nintenwho? Oh right. Nintendon't.

 

[JCOnyx]

To be perfectly honest, I see Ray's Bair having an animation more similar to Tink's rather than Ike's Fair. But with the increased character size Tink's Bair could in fact possibly become that large... that sounds sort of toxic like 2.6 Ivy's Bair.

Either way you have to be careful with juggling Bairs, those are Puff's and Kirby's thing.

 

[XXXX1000]

It's funny that you mention a forwards/backwards airdash for Ray because I think he would be awesome with an 8-way airdash (balanced by either restricting it to one in the air or have it eat his double jump). That would make his combo game both incredibly creative and flexible and it'd instantly set him apart from the rest of the cast. He's the only character it would really make sense for.

 

[Solbliminal]

To be perfectly honest, I see Ray's Bair having an animation more similar to Tink's rather than Ike's Fair. But with the increased character size Tink's Bair could in fact possibly become that large... that sounds sort of toxic like 2.6 Ivy's Bair.

Either way you have to be careful with juggling Bairs, those are Puff's and Kirby's thing.

I said hitbox range. Not animation.

And about B-Airs...

Spoiler

 

[JCOnyx]

Yeah... it's just a hitbox that large for a Bair juggle is rather insane.

It would be... unBEARable.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yeah... it's just a hitbox that large for a Bair juggle is rather insane.

It would be... unBEARable.

When you condense the hitbox to match his frame, it is not as bad as it sounds. You can BEARly notice.

 

[Sharic X]

Out of curiosity, why has Daisy not been suggested?

Well, considering Rosalina...there is a slight chance she might make the Smash 4 roster.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Well, considering Rosalina...there is a slight chance she might make the Smash 4 roster.

Um... wouldn't Rosalina make Daisy (or any other Mario Character that isn't a vet for that instance) LESS likely? Also I can think of PLENTY of other reasons why any other option would be better then Daisy.

 

[Sharic X]

I am changing my vote for Paper Mario to Ray
------

+1 Vote

Skull Kid: I love the Skull Kid as a character because he was controlling the mask and the mask was controlling him. It was as if they became when one (which they technically did), but the reason why I think he'd be an appropriate and great choice is because he could bring an interesting move set to the table. If the devs get really creative using his powers and overall things he does in Majora's Mask, he'd be great.

Shadow: Though many people may not like Shadow and rather think of him as a Sonic clone, Shadow can easily be customized to have a completely different move set than Sonic. Aside from the normal kick, punch, jump that Sonic does, Shadow could use moves like Chaos Spear, Chaos Arrows, Chaos Control and Chaos Blast. Plus, he could also use weapons, hence the ones he uses in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Tom Nook: Well, as we all know Villager is in Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U and Tom Nook would be fun because he could use things he sells, instead of just things that you can use. Imagine dropping a couch on Link or throwing a raccoon clock at Yoshi. Now that'd be fun!

Kafei: Although many of you think this is rather silly or unnecessary, he was playable for a little bit in Majora's Mask, and that makes him the second character to be playable aside from the main hero, Link. Besides, everyone who played Majora's Mask, whether they did his side quest or not, they will still say they remembered seeing a little ****** with blue hair and Pikachu mask (OK OK, it's a Keaton mask but it's meant to look like a Pikachu) running away from you. Plus he could have a very interesting move set in the right hands.

Ray: Ray from Custom Robo. He's awesome, has a potentially great and promising moveset, and also...he's from a Nintendo franchise. Not that it matters much, but hey. It's a bonus.

I have no +1/2 votes or downvotes, so that completes my list.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I am changing my vote for Paper Mario to Ray
------

+1 Vote

Skull Kid: I love the Skull Kid as a character because he was controlling the mask and the mask was controlling him. It was as if they became when one (which they technically did), but the reason why I think he'd be an appropriate and great choice is because he could bring an interesting move set to the table. If the devs get really creative using his powers and overall things he does in Majora's Mask, he'd be great.

Shadow: Though many people may not like Shadow and rather think of him as a Sonic clone, Shadow can easily be customized to have a completely different move set than Sonic. Aside from the normal kick, punch, jump that Sonic does, Shadow could use moves like Chaos Spear, Chaos Arrows, Chaos Control and Chaos Blast. Plus, he could also use weapons, hence the ones he uses in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Tom Nook: Well, as we all know Villager is in Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U and Tom Nook would be fun because he could use things he sells, instead of just things that you can use. Imagine dropping a couch on Link or throwing a raccoon clock at Yoshi. Now that'd be fun!

Kafei: Although many of you think this is rather silly or unnecessary, he was playable for a little bit in Majora's Mask, and that makes him the second character to be playable aside from the main hero, Link. Besides, everyone who played Majora's Mask, whether they did his side quest or not, they will still say they remembered seeing a little ****** with blue hair and Pikachu mask (OK OK, it's a Keaton mask but it's meant to look like a Pikachu) running away from you. Plus he could have a very interesting move set in the right hands.

Ray: Ray from Custom Robo. He's awesome, has a potentially great and promising moveset, and also...he's from a Nintendo franchise. Not that it matters much, but hey. It's a bonus.

I have no +1/2 votes or downvotes, so that completes my list.

Changing full votes is against the rules, you can however, +1/2 vote Ray.