New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Spire]

Are the pop gun and peanut separate articles? By that leaf, are Link's bow and arrow separate articles?

 

[arcticfox8]

What all is considered an article? I know projectiles and command grabs are, but what else is? Is that it? Teleports and floats aren't, as proven by Mewtwo. What about, say, glides, counters, and number of jumps?

 

[Ginge]

I was just showing you the discussion about him. I don't have enough experience (RE: any) with Skull Kid to really contribute to this discussion.

I can contribute to any Fire Emblem related discussion, though. I know we keep having the "No more sword users" argument. Has a moveset for any of the other eligible Fire Emblem-ers been proposed? I think I remember an Ephraim one by someone (Alfonzo Bagpipez maybe?). Has a Hector or Micaiah moveset been discussed?

 

[arcticfox8]

If it was FE, it was probs Alfonzo.

WAIT MY CODE OF SILENCE

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I was just showing you the discussion about him. I don't have enough experience (RE: any) with Skull Kid to really contribute to this discussion.

I can contribute to any Fire Emblem related discussion, though. I know we keep having the "No more sword users" argument. Has a moveset for any of the other eligible Fire Emblem-ers been proposed? I think I remember an Ephraim one by someone (Alfonzo Bagpipez maybe?). Has a Hector or Micaiah moveset been discussed?

I made a complete Hector moveset and suggested specials for Mickey. I'll link em for you when I'm not on mobile.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Are the pop gun and peanut separate articles? By that leaf, are Link's bow and arrow separate articles?

Nope. From what I understand, anything that leaves the character model and can exist on its own (so, not Squirtle's new down-B, even though it looks like a projectile) is an article. The bow doesn't count because it's always in Link's hands, but the arrow does because it leaves his person.

What all is considered an article? I know projectiles and command grabs are, but what else is? Is that it? Teleports and floats aren't, as proven by Mewtwo. What about, say, glides, counters, and number of jumps?

Number of jumps can be edited, I know that for sure. I don't think command grabs technically count as articles, but they're similar in that you can't create one. It's entirely possible counters are the same way. From what I understand, you also can't add a glide or a crawl to anyone who doesn't have one (though I'm not sure how Samus can crawl now).

 

[F. Blue]

The PMBR can do a lot more with those limitations than you may think. Toon Link's multihit bombs and Samus' crawl shouldn't have been possible but by some creative workarounds they exist.

 

[AnOkayDM]

It makes me sad Toonie still can't crawl.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

It makes me sad Toonie still can't crawl.

What would his crawl attack be? Picking up pigs and getting 20 rupees for it so that he can spend that money on the quick sail?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

What would his crawl attack be? Picking up pigs and getting 20 rupees for it so that he can spend that money on the quick sail?

We're changing Tink's Down-B to that, right now.

 

[AnOkayDM]

What would his crawl attack be? Picking up pigs and getting 20 rupees for it so that he can spend that money on the quick sail?

Just a simple stab or swipe was my idea, but having heard the truth of your words, I must concede.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Just a simple stab or swipe was my idea, but having heard the truth of your words, I must concede.

DAT ANT CANON BRO!

 

[MonkUnit]

Articles are generally projectiles and usually things that are not attached to the character's default model such as ZSS' whip on U-Smash. On Dantarion's website, there is a list of Articles for each character. It should be up to date, but this should give people a better understanding of what Articles are and what Articles each character has.

 

[cmvnb3]

Wait, who's idea was it to use Rob as a clone to Skull Kid? While I appreciate the effort, this is not something that will work. Like you said, barely any animations for ROB while Skull Kid will need quite a few. I think our best bet would be to use Diddy as a Skull Kid clone.

At least for now. Until we figure out something better.

I suggested ROB not for the physicals, but for the similarities to all four of his specials to what Skull Kid could have for his specials. Then I supposed that using the two fairies as hands for physicals while Skull kid's actual arms are just folded all the time(they wouldn't even have bones here) would make it easier to replace all of ROB's robot arm physicals. I don't know what's more taxing, special mods or physical ones but I assumed it was harder to deal with unique specials that didn't matchup to the clone base.

 

[CardiganBoy]

It makes me sad Toonie still can't crawl.

Whats funnier is that Toon Link crawl would be similar to Snake's.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Whats funnier is that Toon Link crawl would be similar to Snake's.

The fact that he couldn't crawl in vBrawl is pretty dumb, considering the game he comes from. Samus also should've been able to "crawl" (morph ball mode) in the first place.

 

[CardiganBoy]

The fact that he couldn't crawl in vBrawl is pretty dumb, considering the game he comes from. Samus also should've been able to "crawl" (morph ball mode) in the first place.

Yeah it always frustated me the fact that Samus can't move freely around with the morphball in other smash games, with the addition of the morphball crawl in Project M, Samus feels more like you are playing a Metroid game, and it's one of the things i'm more grateful about the PMBR.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Has a Hector or Micaiah moveset been discussed?

Here are the movesets you ordered, sir.
Just click the arrows, and you'll be whisked away to a new world of hopeless fan speculation and analysis.

Micaiah

Hector

 

[Ginge]

Here are the movesets you ordered, sir.
Just click the arrows, and you'll be whisked away to a new world of hopeless fan speculation and analysis.

That Hector one looks tasty. The Micaiah moveset is also good, but I'm not too attached to HER as much as the idea of a FE mage. I'd be all for Hector after reading that.

Still think Lyn needs an Up-B similar to Pikachu's if she's included.

 

[Cubelarooso]

As for the "leak," I'm not so sure the PMBR would release a third party character for PM. They're smart, and make decisions based on what's best for the game. And third party characters don't really add anything to the game; in Knuckles's case, Dixie Kong, Toad, Bowser Jr., and Andy (or even Sami herself) could all justifiably have similar stats, have access to abilities equivalent to anything Knuckles can do (climbing, gliding, diving, digging for items, digging for movement, digging for traps, earthquake, spindash, or even using a spring like Sonic's), offer even more abilities than Knuckles, are alike in difficulty animation-wise, and have greater interest from players. The same could be said for the other third parties.
On the other hand, they could detract from the game:

• Adding a third party brings in a third party. Nintendo has stayed its hand thus far, but we can't be sure Sega (or Konami) would do the same. Sega may currently have its own plans for a fighting game featuring Knuckles as a playable character, and would thus view PM as competition to be eliminated.
• Even if Sega itself takes no action, Nintendo might. In a hypothetical third-party-PM future, whenever Nintendo wishes to license a character for a small cameo, the other company (any other company) could point to how Nintendo previously failed to take action against those who turned a small cameo into a major role – a role that could possibly encroach upon the company's own present or future products. Regardless of whether that's an actual concern for the company, the very potential provides them with the leverage to get a better deal from Nintendo, which means a worse deal for Nintendo. Wanting to avoid this future, Nintendo would take action.
  
• On the subject of copyright, both Sonic and Metal Gear characters have official voices, and extensively using someone's voice-work without compensation strays into the same territory as the Skyloft theme. Admittedly, the Sonic cast changes actors so frequently that I doubt I would notice if the PMBR made their own, but getting a sound-alike with good recording equipment is still more work than just pitch-shifting.
• Frankly, adding a Sonic character may be bad for PM's image. The Sonic fanbase has a certain notoriety, and association with other fan-projects that stick secondary Sonic characters into things may dissuade newcomers from further investigation.
  
• Not that player whims should be fiat, but community involvement is a driving force of this game, and this thread provides quantitative evidence that few people want another Sonic character, and many people would prefer no character at all. And, besides just the game's well-being, I'd expect the developers would prefer to work on something that would be appreciated.

I actually haven't updated the OP with a link to the most recent results. I'm gonna be out for a while... can someone with a lot of free time go back like 20 or so pages and find my last update so I can quote it?

Here's the next tally,…

With the game's ambiguity established, would you care to humor me and change Sukapon's entry to use neuter pronouns next time you update the first post, Anti Guy?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Sukapon may not have a gender, but we're all going to refer to it as a "he" anyway, just look at Mewtwo. "He's" actually genderless.

And whatever the chance of Knuckles being in, and however unpopular, it's ultimately the PMBR's decision who the remaining 5 characters are. If they're all big Sonic fans, or just feel that a slower, heavier hitting Sonic clone is interesting to them, we'll all probably accept it and move on relatively easily.

Personally, I hope the leak is real and not real. I want Skull Kid and Isaac in, but the other 3 I could go either way except Knuckles, who I would like to stay out of a predominantly Nintendo game. Also, as both a big Mario and Mother fan I'm a little sad no extra characters from either series are getting in. But, if Isaac and Skull Kid make it in I'll get over myself

 

[Cubelarooso]

The difference is that many people have not heard of Sukapon, so their mental image can yet be influenced by how it is introduced. Considering that some users have expressed interest in having more female characters (it is even listed as a "pro" for Lyn) and that I like Sukapon (and thus wish to artificially stack it with pros of dubious merit), I'd prefer not to declare "male" the default gender.

 

[Grey Belnades]

Hector

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I can't invest myself in Hector or Micaiah no matter how much I like them because of how dubious their chances are.

 

[Anti Guy]

As for the "leak," I'm not so sure the PMBR would release a third party character for PM. They're smart, and make decisions based on what's best for the game. And third party characters don't really add anything to the game; in Knuckles's case, Dixie Kong, Toad, Bowser Jr., and Andy (or even Sami herself) could all justifiably have similar stats, have access to abilities equivalent to anything Knuckles can do (climbing, gliding, diving, digging for items, digging for movement, digging for traps, earthquake, spindash, or even using a spring like Sonic's), offer even more abilities than Knuckles, are alike in difficulty animation-wise, and have greater interest from players. The same could be said for the other third parties.
On the other hand, they could detract from the game:

• Adding a third party brings in a third party. Nintendo has stayed its hand thus far, but we can't be sure Sega (or Konami) would do the same. Sega may currently have its own plans for a fighting game featuring Knuckles as a playable character, and would thus view PM as competition to be eliminated.
• Even if Sega itself takes no action, Nintendo might. In a hypothetical third-party-PM future, whenever Nintendo wishes to license a character for a small cameo, the other company (any other company) could point to how Nintendo previously failed to take action against those who turned a small cameo into a major role – a role that could possibly encroach upon the company's own present or future products. Regardless of whether that's an actual concern for the company, the very potential provides them with the leverage to get a better deal from Nintendo, which means a worse deal for Nintendo. Wanting to avoid this future, Nintendo would take action.
  
• On the subject of copyright, both Sonic and Metal Gear characters have official voices, and extensively using someone's voice-work without compensation strays into the same territory as the Skyloft theme. Admittedly, the Sonic cast changes actors so frequently that I doubt I would notice if the PMBR made their own, but getting a sound-alike with good recording equipment is still more work than just pitch-shifting.
• Frankly, adding a Sonic character may be bad for PM's image. The Sonic fanbase has a certain notoriety, and association with other fan-projects that stick secondary Sonic characters into things may dissuade newcomers from further investigation.
  
• Not that player whims should be fiat, but community involvement is a driving force of this game, and this thread provides quantitative evidence that few people want another Sonic character, and many people would prefer no character at all. And, besides just the game's well-being, I'd expect the developers would prefer to work on something that would be appreciated.

With the game's ambiguity established, would you care to humor me and change Sukapon's entry to use neuter pronouns next time you update the first post, Anti Guy?

Thanks! Yeah I can use "it."

 

[Rasgar]

Putting the question aside of whether or not Knuckles is a good choice, I have to wonder why people are considering Knuckles as a heavier sonic clone. Why would he use any of Sonic's moves?

 

[Cubelarooso]

Because who wouldn't want to copy Sonic's swag?

Thanks! Yeah I can use "it."

Cool beans.

 

[Generically Epic]

Putting the question aside of whether or not Knuckles is a good choice, I have to wonder why people are considering Knuckles as a heavier sonic clone. Why would he use any of Sonic's moves?

the nair, and b-down could easily be kept similar
God, I hate the hate on the sonic fanbase and I'm cosplaying as Mario. >>

 

[Generically Epic]

Yeah it always frustated me the fact that Samus can't move freely around with the morphball in other smash games, with the addition of the morphball crawl in Project M, Samus feels more like you are playing a Metroid game, and it's one of the things i'm more grateful about the PMBR.

I've always been disappointed that Yoshi can't move his opponents when he grabs them...

 

[Halfhead]

Would Banjo-Kazooie be a possible thing or is the legal area to grey there? I've wanted that character since I saw a commercial for Smash 64 even before it came out.
In the same vain, Simon Belmont?
I'd also like to remind the anti-third-partiers that we do have a Castlevania stage.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Would Banjo-Kazooie be a possible thing or is the legal area to grey there? I've wanted that character since I saw a commercial for Smash 64 even before it came out.
In the same vain, Simon Belmont?
I'd also like to remind the anti-third-partiers that we do have a Castlevania stage.

Clone engine characters have to already be in Brawl in some way. End of story.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Would Banjo-Kazooie be a possible thing or is the legal area to grey there? I've wanted that character since I saw a commercial for Smash 64 even before it came out.
In the same vain, Simon Belmont?
I'd also like to remind the anti-third-partiers that we do have a Castlevania stage.

Dracula is a character that has existed long before Castlevania and the stage is made of completely original material, they are much less likely to get in trouble for that then adding in a character that is owned by Konami (If you didn't know, Dracula is public domain meaning anyone can use the name). Also, "First and foremost as a game mod, we are still under certain legal obligations and restrictions. To stay in Nintendo's good graces and to avoid attracting Cease & Desist letters from 3rd party companies, we are limiting our choice of new characters to those that Nintendo has already licensed for inclusion in Brawl." - Clone Engine Blog Post. Here is the link you you don't believe me http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities

 

[MLGF]

I can't invest myself in Hector or Micaiah no matter how much I like them because of how dubious their chances are.

Well, it's not your fault the internet likes girls with boobs compared to potentially interesting weapon users.
Hector could very well be a great character, along with potentially other long range heavy characters, but we'll likely never get it because the least important lord in the series somehow gets dibs.
Eh.

 

[Vigilante]

What sucks about working with Smash Bros is that there are so many cool Nintendo characters to choose from, that the hance of making everyone happy is 0%. This thread makes me wish we had unlimited ressources. Nevertheless, don't limit yourselves to rumours for ideas. Unlike what they seem to indicate, we do not yet have a finalized roster of clones, nor do we know how many there might be.

On the subject of FE characters, Soren is the coolest FE character who will never have a chance at being playable in any smash game. I soloed the game with him.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

What sucks about working with Smash Bros is that there are so many cool Nintendo characters to choose from, that the hance of making everyone happy is 0%. This thread makes me wish we had unlimited ressources. Nevertheless, don't limit yourselves to rumours for ideas. Unlike what they seem to indicate, we do not yet have a finalized roster of clones, nor do we know how many there might be.

On the subject of FE characters, Soren is the coolest FE character who will never have a chance at being playable in any smash game. I soloed the game with him.

So your telling me Saki still has a chance?

 

[cmvnb3]

I think the main problem is that they're holding out to wait and see what shows up in smash 4 before committing to anything. Above all, avoiding that dreaded C&D is what matters most. It'd be nice if they could just reach a secret agreement with Nintendo of what's allowable instead of having this one-sided cold war scenario.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Well, it's not your fault the internet likes girls with boobs compared to potentially interesting weapon users.
Hector could very well be a great character, along with potentially other long range heavy characters, but we'll likely never get it because the least important lord in the series somehow gets dibs.
Eh.

Lyn is not just a girl with boobs. Smh, just as interesting as an axe or any weapon user.

Magic can be boring, axes can be boring, and yet they can be exciting, just like a sword user can still be exciting.

I think you hate the character too much, it clouds your judgement.

 

[MLGF]

I admit she has potential, but I don't understand her innate popularity within the Smash fandom, as it appears many supporters don't seem into FE that much as a whole.

 

[cmvnb3]

I admit she has potential, but I don't understand her innate popularity within the Smash fandom, as it appears many supporters don't seem into FE that much as a whole.

I bet a lot of them are on the Lyn fanwagon just for the T&A or I think it might be some just liking samurai but it's all quite dubious and I'd hate to see PM lose some of it's respectability by adding in fanservice-pandering newcomers without even asking why they want them so much.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I admit she has potential, but I don't understand her innate popularity within the Smash fandom, as it appears many supporters don't seem into FE that much as a whole.

I am into FE. In fact, FE7 is the first FE game I actually played. Man, I really enjoyed the game and the cast so much, I replayed it countless times.