New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I'll give you Peach, but none of those other characters have movesets that I'd say were dictated by their "personality" - ROB's moveset is mostly based around the fact that he's a robot, and Mr. Game & Watch's moveset is made entirely of references to various Game & Watch games. For Zero Suit Samus, I wouldn't say that "has a whip" is a personality quirk, nor would I say the same about Zelda's ability to use magic.

Perhaps most notably, how can you say that Fox and Falco have movesets - near identical, visually, mind you - based on their personalities when their personalities aren't the same at all?

Well that was more of a list of characters that had movesets with little to nothing to reference from.

 

[Shin F.]

You're missing the point - I'm not saying it's impossible to create a moveset entirely from scratch for Skull Kid, I'm saying it's probably not possible to create a moveset for him from scratch that isn't overly similar to another existing character's moveset, to the point where making him playable would more or less be a waste of time. Everything that he does that you and other posters have listed is something that other characters already have - yes, Zelda's normal attacks are all based on generic magical abilities, but we don't need another Zelda, we already have Zelda.

See, that's where you're wrong. The beauty of games like this is that things similar in concept can work in any number of different ways. Are you saying that because Captain Falcon uses punches, kicks and fire that he isn't unique because Mario already does those things? No. Captain Falcon uses them in completely different ways, just as Zelda and Ganondorf use magic in different ways, just as Ness and Mewtwo use psychic powers in different ways, just as Link and Marth use swords in different ways. Just because they both share the label of being magic doesn't mean it's going to be the same.

You could clone Skull Kid from Zelda and give him generic magic powers, you could clone Skull Kid from Zero Suit Samus and give him some tentacle nonsense, etc. - my question is why would you do any of these things when we already have the characters/moves that have been suggested?

And you could also take bits and pieces from both and give him a nice mix, creating an entirely new playstyle.

Think of it this way - Mewtwo is a clone of Lucario (you know what I mean), and Roy is a clone of Marth. But if we were to pretend for a moment that Roy wasn't a character in Melee and that, right now, we were arguing about whether or not Roy should be included as a character in Project M who is basically "Marth, but with fire" - could you really, in good conscience, say that that would be something worth pouring hundreds of hours of work into?

You're twisting the argument. Roy and Marth were nearly 1:1 clones in Melee. Skull Kid has far more original things that can be done with him to separate him from other characters. Your argument would be more accurate if it was "if Mewtwo wasn't in Melee and we were debating him for Project M".

I'm not saying that Skull Kid should never be playable and that everyone is wrong - only that the ideas put forth in the thread so far are not really enough to justify putting him in.

Do you have any examples of characters being designed this way, other than Captain Falcon?

Spoiler

Ness. Every move, except PK Flash and his bat and yoyo, was something he couldn't do in his game. PK Fire, PK Thunder and PSI Magnet were borrowed from party members. Everything else was made up.

Lucas. Same as Ness, except that he has Offense Up and his stick.

Zelda. She doesn't use a single one of her attacks except her Sheik transformation and Light Arrows in-game. Her other specials were borrowed from Link. Everything else was made up.

Sheik. Literally nothing except her teleport and transform was from her games.

Ganondorf. Do I really need to go over this one? He has a few moves, but most are made up.

Pit. All he had in his games was a bow (no twin swords), his wings and his shield.

Ice Climbers. They had hammers, and that's it.

ROB. He wasn't even a game character. All he had was his gyro.

Fox, Falco and Wolf. Their side b and up b are all made up, in addition to all of their normals. Possibly their reflectors, not sure about those.

Mewtwo. Everything except his specials and telekinetic throws.

There are other characters with made up moves, as well, like Luigi's Green Missile or Peach's Peach Bomber, but I'm not going to bother with listing them.

Again, I'm not saying he has nothing to draw from, I'm saying that what he does have to draw from isn't enough to give him a moveset that isn't overly similar to the movesets of characters that already exist. My argument isn't that you couldn't make a moveset for him, it's that you couldn't make one that was interesting, and that, as such, it's unlikely to be worth the time and effort required to make it a reality.

Why would a made up moveset be similar to the rest of the cast? They can literally make it into whatever they want it to be. You're limiting your imagination by somehow thinking that every generic attack will match another character's.

I'll give you Peach, but none of those other characters have movesets that I'd say were dictated by their "personality" - ROB's moveset is mostly based around the fact that he's a robot, and Mr. Game & Watch's moveset is made entirely of references to various Game & Watch games. For Zero Suit Samus, I wouldn't say that "has a whip" is a personality quirk, nor would I say the same about Zelda's ability to use magic.

Perhaps most notably, how can you say that Fox and Falco have movesets - near identical, visually, mind you - based on their personalities when their personalities aren't the same at all?

The moves don't have to be adapted from personality quirks. They can be, but they don't have to be. They can be extrapolated from other abilities or from the universe the character lives in. The Ice Climbers, for instance, gaining actual ice-based abilities, which they didn't have in Ice Climber.

 

[Paradoxium]

I recently played melee the other day, and i decided to play as pichu.
For some time now ive excepted how people feel about pichu. i mean the little guy is so cute and his mechanics are unique, i could feel for why people missed him, i imagined what how the pmbr would bring him back and buff him up,

and then i played as him

i searched frantically for something, anything that could possibly be a redeeming quality in this character that may justify a return, but alas i found nothing. I wondered why anyone could possibly want that abomination back, and the answer came to me. With one as terrible as him, he can perhaps show how no matter how bad a character may seem, no matter how bland there moveset could be, no matter how boring there play style may appear, there will always be worse, worse in the form of pichu.

There is NOTHING about his playstyle that justifies a return, you may say "OMG ROY MADE IT IN AND HES SO CLONE OF MARTH" Roy was a clone of marth, but his combos were different, he was able to juggle literally every character in the game, and he was faster than Marth when you take his fall speed into account, not only that but he was a character where his tilts were better than his ariels, all of this actually gave him a more different playstyle from Marths than most people think.
Pichu on the other hand...
Well i will say that he is not much of a pikachu clone, you see, pikachu actually has a stomach-able playstyle, pichu does not
With pichu, one must wd and dashdance endlessly until there opponent extremely and clumsily over extends themselves a ridiculous length, so that pichu may run up and attempt to punish, but really the only punish he has is somehow getting his opponent over the edge and trying to gimp them.
His playstyle that relies on you running away would be destructive to the game, you think fox makes the game boring? Imagine pichu, all he can do is hope his opponent screws up, in the mean time its keep away

The only reasons i see people wanting him back are
1-bcus melee
2-hes so cute
3-but, but, hes my favorite

honestly, if they were to buff him enough in pm, the end result would not be anything that resembles melee pichu, i just don't understand why anyone would rather have him back that someone MUCH COOLER!
****ING PICHU IS GARBAGE
In every way, shape, or form there is nothing about him that deserves a return, the only thing good about him was his ability to gimp but even pikachu does a better job at that

i just don't understand

 

[Solbliminal]

Do you have any examples of characters being designed this way, other than Captain Falcon?

Fox. That then stems to Falco and Wolf who gained inspiration from Fox's moveset. Ice Climbers. A game about jumping to the top of the hill "clearly" has full moveset potential. Sheik AND Zelda. They did nothing but fulfill a static role.

I'm not sure what capoeira has to do with being wild and unpredictable?

I'm not sure why you replied then.

Again, I'm not saying he has nothing to draw from, I'm saying that what he does have to draw from isn't enough to give him a moveset that isn't overly similar to the movesets of characters that already exist. My argument isn't that you couldn't make a moveset for him, it's that you couldn't make one that was interesting, and that, as such, it's unlikely to be worth the time and effort required to make it a reality.

And again I say, you draw inspiration from your character's personality and apply what makes sense. That is GAME DESIGNER logic. Something I actually study in fact. There is plenty of personality in the character to make a moveset possible. Best example of what I said. Sheik. Looks like a ninja, therefore fights like one. Even if she never did so in the game. It was implied she could. Just like now it was implied that Skull Kid could use a wide array of magic, as Shin was explaining. With his personality and magic use, you can do a number of things to make him an interesting character.

Going out of your way to say "your argument is wrong" while arguing with someone is pedantic. Grow up.

Two things:

1) Learn when to take constructive criticism, as well as to read. I never agreed nor disagreed on the worth of Skull Kid. What I am saying is that you lack the imagination to see potential. From a game developer's perspective, you draw inspiration from more than just "what is shown in a game". You expand upon the character based on what you know about them. My statements above clear this up.

2) Ending your statement with a childish reply to what you thought was an insult merely proves the extent of your intelligence. I think it is safe to say I have no business in continuing a discussion with someone who can't tell the difference between a critique and an insult.

 

[Bleck]

Well that was more of a list of characters that had movesets with little to nothing to reference from.

That wasn't what I was asking for, so you can see where I was confused.

See, that's where you're wrong. The beauty of games like this is that things similar in concept can work in any number of different ways. Are you saying that because Captain Falcon uses punches, kicks and fire that he isn't unique because Mario already does those things? No. Captain Falcon uses them in completely different ways, just as Zelda and Ganondorf use magic in different ways, just as Ness and Mewtwo use psychic powers in different ways, just as Link and Marth use swords in different ways. Just because they both share the label of being magic doesn't mean it's going to be the same.

This is a faith-based argument - you're essentially saying that it's possible to make a moveset that uses these things that is unique, or at least, not negatively comparable to another character's, and I'm not disagreeing. What I'm saying is that it'd probably not worth the effort that the team would have to put forward if that turned out to not be the case.

I think that going ahead with Skull Kid as a project would require a really solid and interesting kit envisioned from the get go - which is not what we have here. What we have here is the nebulous insistence that "something" could be done, sprinkled occasionally with suggestions of cloned bits of other characters.

And you could also take bits and pieces from both and give him a nice mix, creating an entirely new playstyle.

Giving a character a mix of powerful anti-approach options and long ranged normals doesn't sound like a good mix, to me.

examples

I didn't ask for a list of characters with made up moves not specifically from the games they were from, I asked for a list of characters with moves based on their personalities.

Why would a made up moveset be similar to the rest of the cast. They can literally make it into whatever they want it to be. You're limiting your imagination by somehow thinking that every generic attack will match another character's.

And you're overestimating your imagination by assuming that a character could have generic normal attacks that aren't in some way similar to the attacks of the 41 characters we already have.

There's a reason Sakurai had said he wanted to focus more on adding new ways to play the game rather than a large number of new characters in Smash 4 - it's because with the number of characters that already exist, it's rapidly approaching a point where characters play very similarly to at least some others (at least, when we're talking about normal attacks).

Keep in mind, here, that you're arguing for the existence of something - it's up to you to prove that these things do, or at least can, exist. If you think that there are interesting ideas for how Skull Kid - or any other character, for that matter! - can be a playable character, then it falls to you to demonstrate how. Saying that I 'lack imagination' doesn't implicitly prove that Skull Kid can be interesting.

The moves don't have to be adapted from personality quirks. They can be, but they don't have to be. They can be extrapolated from other abilities or from the universe the character lives in. The Ice Climbers, for instance, gaining actual ice-based abilities, which they didn't have in Ice Climber.

I agree with this.

****ING PICHU IS GARBAGE

Please, stop posting about Pichu.

Fox. That then stems to Falco and Wolf who gained inspiration from Fox's moveset. Ice Climbers. A game about jumping to the top of the hill "clearly" has full moveset potential. Sheik AND Zelda.

Third time's the charm - didn't ask for a list of characters with made up moves, asked for a list of characters with moves based on their personalities.

I'm not sure why you replied then.

The implication was that your assertion wasn't as clear-cut as you'd assumed. Saying [x] "goes with" [y] does not necessarily make it true.

With his personality and magic use, you can do a number of things to make him an interesting character.

Like what?

Learn when to take constructive criticism, as well as to read.

Telling someone to 'learn to read' is a great way to get your posts ignored. Try posting again when you can do so like an adult.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Third time's the charm - didn't ask for a list of characters with made up moves, asked for a list of characters with moves based on their personalities.

Why is this line of text smaller then the others and why does this bother me so much?

 

[Bleck]

I... I don't know how that happened.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I... I don't know how that happened.

This minor inconsistency is ruining my life!

 

[Empyrean]

Too bad I can't help with the SK discussion. Just take my word that he would be cool.

Any candidate would be cool, you say?

Just take my word that he would be even cooler.

This post has no point whatsoever, but I dun giv a crap.

 

[Solbliminal]

This minor inconsistency is ruining my life!

QUICK QQQQQQQ7777777!!! IGNORE MY POST!! IT IS CHILDISH AND DOES NOT SERVE AN OUNCE OF ADULT INTELLECT!!!

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

QUICK QQQQQQQ7777777!!! IGNORE MY POST!! IT IS CHILDISH AND DOES NOT SERVE AN OUNCE OF ADULT INTELLECT!!!

7 CAN NOT BE SYMMETRICAL NO MATTER WHICH WAY YOU SPLICE IT!!! WHY DOES EMPYREAN'S POST NOT HAVE AN E IN "GIVE"!!?? WHAT IS PURPLE!!! IS IT BETTER THEN BLUE!!??

 

[Solbliminal]

I love the way you worded that paragraph. In fact, that paragraph alone is enough of a reason to go back and spoiler my entire post so that no one else has to be bothered to read it all.

Incidentally, I'm not sure if I ever half-voted Ray, but he's really growing on me. I'd like to +1/2 him if I haven't already.

Sorry to leave you hanging like that Shin. Now to respond to this piece, Thanks for the compliment. Though I myself am not a solid supporter for Skull Kid, I can respect what he has to offer to the table. I personally want to see 2 new franchise's tossed in on that 5, so my support for him dwindles since Zelda is a well represented franchise.

As for Ray, I'm glad you are warming up to him. Hopefully the next few moveset posts I make will further that interest in the character. And if I haven't told you before, you should give Custom Robo a shot. Rather it be the Gamecube or DS versions, they are worth trying out.

 

[Deviljho]

Is it ok if I edit my Tally? (I'm pretty sure I posted here... But if I didn't here's my votes)

+1 :
Lyn
Hector
Claus

+1/2
Pichu
Toad
Ridley

I forgot to look at the first post. XD so that's why some changes have been made.

As of what everything else that is happening above this... I... Have no input. No idea of what to say/if I could even do anything. Lol

 

[Giygacoal]

Toad doesn't have any interesting moveset options.

 

[trojanpooh]

[quote="Paradoxium, post: 16200730, member: 214141"
I recently played melee the other day, and i decided to play as falco.
For some time now ive excepted how people feel about falco. i mean the little guy is so cute and his mechanics are unique, i could feel for why people missed him, i imagined what how the pmbr would bring him back and buff him up,

and then i played as him

i searched frantically for something, anything that could possibly be a redeeming quality in this character that may justify a return, but alas i found nothing. I wondered why anyone could possibly want that abomination back, and the answer came to me. With one as terrible as him, he can perhaps show how no matter how bad a character may seem, no matter how bland there moveset could be, no matter how boring there play style may appear, there will always be worse, worse in the form of falco.

There is NOTHING about his playstyle that justifies a return, you may say "OMG ROY MADE IT IN AND HES SO CLONE OF MARTH" Roy was a clone of marth, but his combos were different, he was able to juggle literally every character in the game, and he was faster than Marth when you take his fall speed into account, not only that but he was a character where his tilts were better than his ariels, all of this actually gave him a more different playstyle from Marths than most people think.
falco on the other hand...
Well i will say that he is not much of a pikachu clone, you see, pikachu actually has a stomach-able playstyle, falco does not
With falco, one must wd and dashdance endlessly until there opponent extremely and clumsily over extends themselves a ridiculous length, so that falco may run up and attempt to punish, but really the only punish he has is somehow getting his opponent over the edge and trying to gimp them.
His playstyle that relies on you running away would be destructive to the game, you think fox makes the game boring? Imagine falco, all he can do is hope his opponent screws up, in the mean time its keep away

The only reasons i see people wanting him back are
1-bcus melee
2-hes so cute
3-but, but, hes my favorite

honestly, if they were to buff him enough in pm, the end result would not be anything that resembles melee falco, i just don't understand why anyone would rather have him back that someone MUCH COOLER!
****ING falco IS GARBAGE
In every way, shape, or form there is nothing about him that deserves a return, the only thing good about him was his ability to gimp but even pikachu does a better job at that

i just don't understand
[/quote]

Just as valid an argument.

 

[Rage83]

To respond to the Pichu hate/disagreement, I leave this contribution to the discussion:

COMPLAINT:But Pichu is so weak, we don't need more useless characters!

RESPONSE: a few ways the PMBR can negate that statement.
-Recoil only happens if pichu misses her moves
-Pichu heals herself by crouching, a nod to how sleeping Pokemon can be healed in the main series
-to counter the damage mechanic, Pichu can be much stronger than it's previous appearance in Melee.
-give her something similar to Lucario's old aura system (where some attacks get stronger the more damage Pichu takes)

COMPLAINT: Ugh, I really think Pichu would be a waste of a slot, we already have like 8 Pokemon.
RESPONSE:
Seeing as how Pokemon is Nintendo's second largest(after Mario) series, it doesn't seem all that extreme. Also, bear in mind how popular Pokemon trainer was(despite being 3 characters in one)in vBrawl(unhacked).

COMPLAINT: Inclusion in Melee is a bad reason to introduce a character.

RESPONSE: She's the only character from Melee that has not yet been represented in Project M. Dr, Mario is an alt of pm mario(who was already a mix of melee mario and doc) and Young Link has had some of his moves integrated into Toon Link.
Seeing as how Project M takes inspiration, and bases content upon Melee(Brawl and 64 too)it makes perfect sense to represent yet another fighter left behind(Although this is no longer the case for all but pichu and young link.). Also, Mewtwo and Roy have recieved excellent responses, despite being forgotten Melee veterans.

COMPLAINT: But Pichu is unpopular!

Response: The Pokemon fanbase would love to disagree with you.

 

[Bleck]

To respond to the Pichu hate/disagreement

please stop

 

[Rage83]

Cool Earthbound reference. But to answer your question, no thank you. (Finally, someone who kindly decides to disagree with me. )

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Negative Man for clone engine.

 

[Paradoxium]

Please, stop posting about Pichu.

Sorry but i had excepted pichu for a while, but i reverted back, i had to speak of how i came to my conclusion

I recently played melee the other day, and i decided to play as falco.
For some time now ive excepted how people feel about falco. i mean the little guy is so cute and his mechanics are unique, i could feel for why people missed him, i imagined what how the pmbr would bring him back and buff him up,

and then i played as him

i searched frantically for something, anything that could possibly be a redeeming quality in this character that may justify a return, but alas i found nothing. I wondered why anyone could possibly want that abomination back, and the answer came to me. With one as terrible as him, he can perhaps show how no matter how bad a character may seem, no matter how bland there moveset could be, no matter how boring there play style may appear, there will always be worse, worse in the form of falco.

There is NOTHING about his playstyle that justifies a return, you may say "OMG ROY MADE IT IN AND HES SO CLONE OF MARTH" Roy was a clone of marth, but his combos were different, he was able to juggle literally every character in the game, and he was faster than Marth when you take his fall speed into account, not only that but he was a character where his tilts were better than his ariels, all of this actually gave him a more different playstyle from Marths than most people think.
falco on the other hand...
Well i will say that he is not much of a pikachu clone, you see, pikachu actually has a stomach-able playstyle, falco does not
With falco, one must wd and dashdance endlessly until there opponent extremely and clumsily over extends themselves a ridiculous length, so that falco may run up and attempt to punish, but really the only punish he has is somehow getting his opponent over the edge and trying to gimp them.
His playstyle that relies on you running away would be destructive to the game, you think fox makes the game boring? Imagine falco, all he can do is hope his opponent screws up, in the mean time its keep away

The only reasons i see people wanting him back are
1-bcus melee
2-hes so cute
3-but, but, hes my favorite

honestly, if they were to buff him enough in pm, the end result would not be anything that resembles melee falco, i just don't understand why anyone would rather have him back that someone MUCH COOLER!
****ING falco IS GARBAGE
In every way, shape, or form there is nothing about him that deserves a return, the only thing good about him was his ability to gimp but even pikachu does a better job at that

i just don't understand

Just as valid an argument.

Are you really trying to compare pichu to Falco? Lol are you high bro, because Falco is like a god compared to pichu

One of my main points about why i dont want to see him back is his playstyle was bland and DESTRUCTIVE, you can try and deny it all you want but in melee Falco was the most hyped character next to Captain Falcon. Falco's moveset had Flare, it had style, he was one of those characters that could be taken beyond the next level. Pichu relied on your opponent ****ing up and cheap gimps, Falco has enough options to keep the game interesting, he has standard shffl approaches being shffl nair and dair, along with Lazer approaches leading to grab, dair, shine, ftilt, ect. not only that but he actually has COMBOS, something pichu really lacks. People actually liked Falcos style of play, he is an exciting and fast character, hell even the most watched melee match has falco in it. Pichu is nothing. There is no exciting pichu play, there is no flare in his moveset, there is really nothing gameplay wise that is appealing about him, we are really missing nothing from him in pm. And trying to compare his playstyle to falco? Get real Falco can actually approach, pichu can't. with pichu its a ****ing waiting game the entire match.

And fyi buddy bringing up Falco is stupid, he was already in brawl there is really no point in trying to use him as an argument, if a character was in brawl already the pmbr didn't have a choice whether to add them or not.

And this entire mod started because of Falco...

My point is people try and say how unique pichu was and talk about his playstyle and what not but there is really nothing about him worth bringing back

To respond to the Pichu hate/disagreement, I leave this contribution to the discussion:

COMPLAINT:But Pichu is so weak, we don't need more useless characters!

RESPONSE: a few ways the PMBR can negate that statement.
-Recoil only happens if pichu misses her moves
-Pichu heals herself by crouching, a nod to how sleeping Pokemon can be healed in the main series
-to counter the damage mechanic, Pichu can be much stronger than it's previous appearance in Melee.
-give her something similar to Lucario's old aura system (where some attacks get stronger the more damage Pichu takes)

COMPLAINT: Ugh, I really think Pichu would be a waste of a slot, we already have like 8 Pokemon.
RESPONSE:
Seeing as how Pokemon is Nintendo's second largest(after Mario) series, it doesn't seem all that extreme. Also, bear in mind how popular Pokemon trainer was(despite being 3 characters in one)in vBrawl(unhacked).

COMPLAINT: Inclusion in Melee is a bad reason to introduce a character.

RESPONSE: She's the only character from Melee that has not yet been represented in Project M. Dr, Mario is an alt of pm mario(who was already a mix of melee mario and doc) and Young Link has had some of his moves integrated into Toon Link.
Seeing as how Project M takes inspiration, and bases content upon Melee(Brawl and 64 too)it makes perfect sense to represent yet another fighter left behind(Although this is no longer the case for all but pichu and young link.). Also, Mewtwo and Roy have recieved excellent responses, despite being forgotten Melee veterans.

COMPLAINT: But Pichu is unpopular!

Response: The Pokemon fanbase would love to disagree with you.

My main reason for not wanting Pichu back is his lack of depth and playstyle, how bout we talk about that?

 

[Solbliminal]

Negative Man for clone engine.

What is his Final Smash? Committing suicide?

 

[Bleck]

Negative Man's Final Smash makes the camera zoom in on him as he cries. Everyone else stops moving, and this continues until time runs out, at which point no winner is declared and the game returns to the character select screen.

If there is no time limit set, this continues until the Wii or Wii U is unplugged.

 

[Rage83]

The big ideas behind Pichu being requested to come back are those about IMPROVING HER. Lack of Playstyle to non-mains? That argument could be made of any character to have ever existed in any manner of fighting game. Also, let Project M Roy be an example to you of how the PMBR can improve characters. Lack of depth? My above points, and also, they do call her a joke character for a reason, if nothing else comes out of it. Personally, i've enjoyed conquering the "big, bad, perfect" top tier Melee characters(, etc) with Pichu, and many do the same, no matter how little approval makes it into this thread's polls.

 

[trojanpooh]

Subjective garbage

I obviously picked Falco deliberately because of his popularity for the purpose of contrast. There is literally nothing that separates Pichu from Falco aside from the fact that Falco is top tier, therefore popular. I respect your lack of appreciation for Pichu, but to imply that he has no merit is frankly stupid.

 

[Paradoxium]

The big ideas behind Pichu being requested to come back are those about IMPROVING HER. Lack of Playstyle to non-mains? That argument could be made of any character to have ever existed in any manner of fighting game. Also, let Project M Roy be an example to you of how the PMBR can improve characters. Lack of depth? My above points, and also, they do call her a joke character for a reason, if nothing else comes out of it. Personally, i've enjoyed conquering the "big, bad, perfect" top tier Melee characters(, etc) with Pichu, and many do the same, no matter how little approval makes it into this thread's polls.

Roy did not have a lack of playstyle, he was just bad. Pichu is bad and has a lack of playstyle. I have no doubt the pmbr can buff any character, but what they did with Roy was expand what he had from melee, pichu has nothing to expand on from melee. My point was that there is nothing from his moveset and playstyle worth bringing back, if you don't want his playstyle back than why even bother?

 

[Paradoxium]

I obviously picked Falco deliberately because of his popularity for the purpose of contrast. There is literally nothing that separates Pichu from Falco aside from the fact that Falco is top tier, therefore popular. I respect your lack of appreciation for Pichu, but to imply that he has no merit is frankly stupid.

Lol, Popularity does play a big role mind you, but that is not my main reason for hating pichu anymore, I hate pichu because his PLAYSTYLE, there is literally NOTHING about his playstyle you pichu supporters want back, there is NOTHING redeemable from his melee self, his playstyle is plain BORING. I thought his uniqueness and playstyle was a reason why you people want him back? I went and looked into it and he lacks both, and why call me stupid? I actually tried to change my views, i tried to see the other side of the argument, maybe you should do the same

 

[trojanpooh]

More subjective drabble.

Passing off an opinion as fact is pretty damn stupid, so yeah, I guess I am. Just because you don't see anything redeemable in his playstyle doesn't mean there isn't anything there. Plenty of people really enjoy playing as Pichu so clearly there's some merit to him. Personally I hate Pikachu but love playing as Pichu. I find him extremely fun to play as. Just because I personally find the spacies to be boring to play as doesn't mean I'm going to argue that they don't deserve to be playable.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

A Pichu flame war right after a Ganondorf / Black Shadow flame war. They were SO far apart in the past.

But now, one RIGHT AFTER the other? SERIOUSLY?

What's happening to this thread, man? This isn't cool guys.

 

[El Fonz0]

A Pichu flame war right after a Ganondorf / Black Shadow flame war. They were SO far apart in the past.

But now, one RIGHT AFTER the other? SERIOUSLY?

What's happening to this thread, man? This isn't cool guys.

People seem hellbent on proving the other person wrong
guess we can't handle opinions

 

[Empyrean]

I feel like there is absolutely no point in discussing Pichu. It just feels like a decision the PMBR would take regardless of what the community wants. I'm pretty sure they know how much hate/support he has .Haters gonna hate. Supporters gonna support (?). And I'm not just saying this to end the discussion ok maybe I am.

Sorry for the missing e Q7.

 

[arcticfox8]

the most watched melee match has falco in it

 

[Spire]

I would like to address Bleck.

Bleck,

Do you not realize that Skull Kid is so unique we've barely discussed who he'd even be cloned from? He'd bring more uniqueness to the roster than Ridley, for the latter has an obvious cloning base (Charizard) while the former could be adapted from any number of characters.

 

[El Fonz0]

I'd personally see SK using Ness/Lucas or Toon Link as a base, if only because they're all small and use "magic" or a fair amount of projectiles

 

[Bleck]

Bleck,

Do you not realize that Skull Kid is so unique we've barely discussed who he'd even be cloned from?

That's kind of my point, actually - I feel as though Skull Kid isn't likely with vague or nebulous ideas for a moveset, which is why I'd like to see more discussion on that point. Nevermind whether or not he's a good 'fit' for the game - let's hear some ideas for things that he could do.

Edit; Not to imply that our discussions are the be all, end all of whether a character could be picked, as I'm sure the backroom has discussions of their own.

 

[Paradoxium]

Some random guy ****ing to pichu

What Redeemable aspect from pichu's play style is worth bringing back? I can't find one but maybe you can.

 

[Spire]

Skull Kid comes up from time to time. I wouldn't expect you to read through the bountiful discussions of this thread so I'll just pick my brain for memory. Shin and I once discussed a moveset wherein Skull Kid is cloned from Diddy Kong for his stature, traction, and array of articles. We figured Skull Kid would reflect his incarnations in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess, with his most infamous appearance (MM) being the main look. Even Sakurai went with that over his TP design. Skull Kid and Majora's Mask are essentially a duo character, despite being connected. This is because there are two distinct entities working together. Majora feeds on Skull Kid's desires, bestowing him endless power and blinding him from the good of the world so he may enact his every mischievous whim. This leads to destruction.

Majora is a magical parasite demon that uses a host to navigate the world. Skull Kid is a victim and as such, many attacks will focus on ranged properties to keep distance from being hurt. He's afraid of being harmed. An easy way to discern the combative differences between the two would be segregating Majora as specials and Skull Kid as attacks. Hybridizing the two would be more inventive. Man, I've really gotta get to sleep because I work early in the morning but maybe Shin can dig up our incomplete moveset for inspiration's sake.

Looking forward to returning to Skull Kid discussion tomorrooooooow!

 

[trojanpooh]

What Redeemable aspect from pichu's play style is worth bringing back? I can't find one but maybe you can.

Sorry, but you're really not worth arguing with. It's clear you've made up your mind a long time ago and don't have any intention of changing it. If you're genuinely interested it Pichu's redeemable aspects then go back and read the earlier Pichu discussions. There's plenty there both about what made him interesting and what could make him better in the transition. Of course, you're really just interested in poking the hornet's nest so I'm sure you're not going to do that.

 

[Paradoxium]

Sorry, but you're really not worth arguing with. It's clear you've made up your mind a long time ago and don't have any intention of changing it. If you're genuinely interested it Pichu's redeemable aspects then go back and read the earlier Pichu discussions. There's plenty there both about what made him interesting and what could make him better in the transition. Of course, you're really just interested in poking the hornet's nest so I'm sure you're not going to do that.

I see your on your period right now so I'm just gonna drop the whole thing

 

[arcticfox8]

I see your on your period right now so I'm just gonna drop the whole thing

yeah tp put your on your period up
noone wants to see that ****

 

[trojanpooh]

I see your on your period right now so I'm just gonna drop the whole thing

Oh man, you're so clever and witty. Nothing like a little mysogyny to ensure everyone respects your opinions and thinks you're the cool guy you are. Also grammar is you're friend