New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[arcticfox8]

Charizard is not too big.
He's 5 feet tall

 

[DrinkingFood]

And Charizard is a giant red dragon that isn't too big, and Bowser is a giant green turtle dragon that isn't too big. Will we care if we play a shrunken Ridley, or will we just play a shrunken ridley and breathe 16 bit fireballs on our friends? That, I attest, is the question. Realize that there probably are going to be graphical improvements on these fireballs, but

Moblins have fought me with pitchforks, swords, bows, on boars, with barrels, and more. Particularly noteworthy for the moblins seen in brawl is, aside from being seen in brawl they look just like the awesome level in Link's Crossbow Training, something that made me wish more came for the wii zapper. And I've fought a lot more of them than Ganons over the years. They're an iconic minion of a great series and have a pretty cool semi western character design in Brawl. And unlike Ganon, Tingle, or anyone else anyone can name, they've been in every zelda game. When I played Turtles Smash Up I was happy to play the foot soldier, because if it looks cool and kicks my buddies butt, and is an icon of a nintendo game, I don't know what criteria is missing. Plus their sprite is in the game and easy to get.

When I play Mario Kart I often pick Lakitu, dry bones, or Koopa Troopa, minions with good move sets can be a lot of fun to play. And also there's zero chance of those very iconic character designs being used in Smash 4. Only reason I'm not just voting for Little Mac is I'm certain he's got to make it in this time.

Pokemon canonically can have different sizes, Bowser canonically changes size on a regular basis. Ridley was only ever a comparable height to samus in one game, one game, where he still had half her height again on her. And that was likely only because of hardware limitations. He's already in Project:m anyways, he's a boss. It's his most fitting role. Why is that a problem? I don't think he's ever even been playable in any game.

Also no minion characters have ever made it into smash, why should they now? They are disposable and relatively easy in their games, why should they take up part of a limited space in P:M? If you want ****ty charqcters to waste space with just go back to brawl and use PhantomWing's BrawlEx clone engine.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Seeing as how intense things have gotten in this thread, I'll update my votes (hopefully in peace)

FULL

-Ridley
-Toad
-Ganondorf / Black Shadow
-Sukapon
-[to be filled later]

HALF

-Waluigi
-Kamek
-Dixie
-K. Rool*
-Ashley
-Jimmy T.*
-Skull Kid
-Pichu
-Ninten
-Masked Man
-Samurai Goroh
-Isaac
-Ray MK whichever, he just looks cool*


*Added just now, Anti Guy

 

[Shin F.]

He's already in Project:m anyways, he's a boss. It's his most fitting role.

Just like Roy and Mewtwo were in the previous versions of Project M as a trophy/sticker, huh? I suppose those were the most fitting roles for them, too.

I don't think he's ever even been playable in any game.

Outside of Smash, neither has Ganondorf. Your point?

Even if Ridley has only been close to Samus' size in one game, he still changes sizes like Bowser. He's never quite the same size in games. Some size comparisons from the games:

Spoiler

Scaling Samus to about the same size in these screenshots (indicated by the green lines), we can compare the relative size of Ridley (the white boxes).

You can clearly see the difference in size, but to make it more clear, here are those white boxes I drew side by side:

You can see that, like Bowser (if less extreme), he's sized differently throughout the games, especially in Metroid and Super Metroid. Even the ones that look close in size aren't as close as they seem, when you consider that in some of them he's a lot more crouched than others or has his wings extended in some of them more than others (look at the Metroid Fusion and Other M ones, for example. He's very crouched in Fusion, but not Other M, causing them to have similar sized boxes even though the one in Fusion is much bigger, and the Zero Mission one looks bigger than it is because of the wings sticking out above his head.) Yes, the only canon one in which he's actually close to Samus is the original, but look at the one from Melee's opening more closely.

Spoiler

He's big, yes, bigger than Samus, but he's not so big that he would be unfeasible as a playable character, nor does he look unnaturally small. He's only just a bit bigger than his NES incarnation, but the design they used was well-done enough that it feels right. To preempt any arguments about this being non-canon, keep in mind that Brawl is also non-canon and thus can draw from non-canon sources, especially sources within its own series (like Giga Bowser being Bowser's Final Smash, for example).

In short, there's no reason not to have Ridley sized like his Melee appearance, which is a perfectly feasible size for a playable character.

 

[Paradoxium]

Just like Roy and Mewtwo were in the previous versions of Project M as a trophy/sticker, huh? I suppose those were the most fitting roles for them, too.

Lol, not even a legit comparison

But good post though

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I personally wouldn't mind Ridley being the biggest character any way.
We've never really had a gargantuan tank type of character in Smash, and Ridley could fit that description.
Obviously his boss size would be too much, but being bigger than Bowser isn't a big deal for me.

 

[Shin F.]

Lol, not even a legit comparison

But good post though

I honestly disagree, there. Roy was the main character of one, single game. Mewtwo is just one out of... how many Pokemon, now? Ridley has been a major antagonist of an entire franchise.

Thanks for the compliment, though

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just like Roy and Mewtwo were in the previous versions of Project M as a trophy/sticker, huh? I suppose those were the most fitting roles for them, too.

Outside of Smash, neither has Ganondorf. Your point?

Even if Ridley has only been close to Samus' size in one game, he still changes sizes like Bowser. He's never quite the same size in games. Some size comparisons from the games:

Spoiler

Scaling Samus to about the same size in these screenshots (indicated by the green lines), we can compare the relative size of Ridley (the white boxes).

You can clearly see the difference in size, but to make it more clear, here are those white boxes I drew side by side:

You can see that, like Bowser (if less extreme), he's sized differently throughout the games, especially in Metroid and Super Metroid. Even the ones that look close in size aren't as close as they seem, when you consider that in some of them he's a lot more crouched than others or has his wings extended in some of them more than others (look at the Metroid Fusion and Other M ones, for example. He's very crouched in Fusion, but not Other M, causing them to have similar sized boxes even though the one in Fusion is much bigger, and the Zero Mission one looks bigger than it is because of the wings sticking out above his head.) Yes, the only canon one in which he's actually close to Samus is the original, but look at the one from Melee's opening more closely.

Spoiler

He's big, yes, bigger than Samus, but he's not so big that he would be unfeasible as a playable character, nor does he look unnaturally small. He's only just a bit bigger than his NES incarnation, but the design they used was well-done enough that it feels right. To preempt any arguments about this being non-canon, keep in mind that Brawl is also non-canon and thus can draw from non-canon sources, especially sources within its own series (like Giga Bowser being Bowser's Final Smash, for example).

In short, there's no reason not to have Ridley sized like his Melee appearance, which is a perfectly feasible size for a playable character.

3 seconds in Melee's intro cinematic is not relevant. It's designed to look cool and action-packed while maintaining a close-up on the characters, not to be accurate to canon. You don't even get a good view of his proportions. Playing something for hundreds of hours on end is much different in terms of how much scrutiny it will get compared to a few seconds of pre-rendered footage.
Also, those last three images excluding melee's are all from different angles and positions. Regardless, they are all way too big minus the first one and Melee's irrelevant exception. Having slight variation between Ridley's sizes in the game is not an excuse to downscale him so drastically.

You also missed my point earlier in the post. I wasn't saying that "Ridley is a boss in P:M/Brawl, therefore it is most fitting" anymore than you believe "MewTwo/Roy are most fit as trophies/stickers because they were in brawl". I was saying Ridley is fit as a boss because that's what he is in his games; because of his size being, with like one real exception, much too large; and because he is never playable. The only one of those that applies to Bowser is the first one.

We've never really had a gargantuan tank type of character in Smash, and Ridley could fit that description.

do you even play project m
like seriously
"Who is Bowser?"

 

[Shin F.]

3 seconds in Melee's intro cinematic is not relevant. It's designed to look cool and action-packed while maintaining a close-up on the characters, not to be accurate to canon. You don't even get a good view of his proportions. Playing something for hundreds of hours on end is much different in terms of how much scrutiny it will get compared to a few seconds of pre-rendered footage.
Also, those last three images excluding melee's are all from different angles and positions. Regardless, they are all way too big minus the first one and Melee's irrelevant exception. Having slight variation between Ridley's sizes in the game is not an excuse to downscale him so drastically.

The margin of error for the angles is negligible. We're going for general comparisons, not exact measurements. And again, I point to the difference between Super Metroid and the others.

Second, it doesn't matter how much scrutiny it was meant to have. It still exists, it's still a part of the game, therefore it can still be taken into account. It doesn't matter if almost all of them are way too big - the point was to show that he changes size, which he does if you look even just between Super Metroid and Fusion. If he changes size, then resizing him for PM is legit.

You also missed my point earlier in the post. I wasn't saying that "Ridley is a boss in P:M/Brawl, therefore it is most fitting" anymore than you believe "MewTwo/Roy are most fit as trophies/stickers because they were in brawl". I was saying Ridley is fit as a boss because that's what he is in his games; because of his size being, with like one real exception, much too large; and because he is never playable. The only one of those that applies to Bowser is the first one.

The same can be said of Ganondorf. He's also very large in a number of his games (much, much taller than Link), he is a boss in his games, and is also never playable in his games. That line of argument is invalid.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

do you even play project m
like seriously
"Who is Bowser?"

I was going more along the lines of drastic size differences than playstyle.
Bowser is just as tall as some of the human characters.
I was thinking of someone A LOT bigger than the rest of the cast.
If we're talking about playstyle, then sure, Bowser is a tank. However, he's the only one out of 41 characters with that kind of playstyle.

Edit: Sorry, I can't English today.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

You also missed my point earlier in the post. I wasn't saying that "Ridley is a boss in P:M/Brawl, therefore it is most fitting" anymore than you believe "MewTwo/Roy are most fit as trophies/stickers because they were in brawl". I was saying Ridley is fit as a boss because that's what he is in his games; because of his size being, with like one real exception, much too large; and because he is never playable. The only one of those that applies to Bowser is the first one.

1. Ridley can be shrunk. It can and has been done. He'd probably be the biggest character in the game, in the very least he'd be tied with Bowser, but he can fit.
2. Ganondorf has never been playable and has always been a boss in the Legend of Zelda series. I have no clue what kind of point you were trying to make with that argument.

Anyhow, because Melee, I think the PMBR will take the approach of characters that were frequently requested for Melee but didn't make it into Brawl and probably won't make it into 4. So I predict Ridley and Toad for sure, maybe Pichu (if they feel like getting creative with getting a self-damaging character competitive) or Geno (unless they're counting him as 3rd party, idk). Maybe even Skull Kid. Personally, that's actually all I expect in the forseeable future just because it takes so long to create and balance 1 character. I don't expect to see Ridley and Toad for another year or two at the very least.

EDIT: Well, got ninja'd on the counterargument, but I'll leave it up just to emphasize how obvious it is.

 

[Shin F.]

1. Ridley can be shrunk. It can and has been done. He'd probably be the biggest character in the game, in the very least he'd be tied with Bowser, but he can fit.
2. Ganondorf has never been playable and has always been a boss in the Legend of Zelda series. I have no clue what kind of point you were trying to make with that argument.

Anyhow, because Melee, I think the PMBR will take the approach of characters that were frequently requested for Melee but didn't make it into Brawl and probably won't make it into 4. So I predict Ridley and Toad for sure, maybe Pichu (if they feel like getting creative with getting a self-damaging character competitive) or Geno (unless they're counting him as 3rd party, idk). Maybe even Skull Kid. Personally, that's actually all I expect in the forseeable future just because it takes so long to create and balance 1 character. I don't expect to see Ridley and Toad for another year or two at the very least.

EDIT: Well, got ninja'd on the counterargument, but I'll leave it up just to emphasize how obvious it is.

I'd love Geno, but a character has to have been in Brawl to be eligible, so he's pretty much impossible unless PMBR suddenly decides to go back on their rules.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Ah, yep, forgot about that rule. So no Geno. Oh well, I wasn't a big fan of him to begin with. Really, I'm just looking forward to seeing what happens when the PMBR gets to create a character from the ground up.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The margin of error for the angles is negligible. We're going for general comparisons, not exact measurements. And again, I point to the difference between Super Metroid and the others.

That is likely a hardware limitation, early games had very restrictive limits for sprite sizes. It's even the reason mario had a mustache and hat instead of a mouth and hair. His size was fixed in later games. It's a limitation, not an accurate representation. This is grasping for straws, stop ****ing dwelling on it.

Second, it doesn't matter how much scrutiny it was meant to have. It still exists, it's still a part of the game, therefore it can still be taken into account. It doesn't matter if almost all of them are way too big - the point was to show that he changes size, which he does if you look even just between Super Metroid and Fusion. If he can change size, then resizing him for PM is legit.

It's melee, not metroid. It's not canon.

The same can be said of Ganondorf. He's also very large in a number of his games (much, much taller than Link), he is a boss in his games, and is also never playable in his games. That line of argument is invalid.

I agree. Ganondorf is too big, only a boss, and never playable; we should remove him.
...
See how that works? Citing ****ty inclusion choices from in-game characters is not an argument for even more ****ty inclusions. It's an argument against said character. Olimar's drastic up-sizing is also not an argument for resizing characters, it's an argument against including olimar at all. The difference here is that if he were properly sized, he couldn't even be in the game at all, even as a non-playable character. Ridley's size is good enough for a boss, olimar's isn't good enough for anything. The only option for him was to not be included, or be resized, at which point he might as well be playable since all his other attributes are in line. But I digress. Citing examples of Sakurai's bad design decisions does not mean more of them should be made.
Besides, Ganon isn't thqt much bigger than Link. He's a lot bigger than toon/young link. Rightfully so, considering they are children and he's a beast of a man-warlock.

1. Ridley can be shrunk. It can and has been done. He'd probably be the biggest character in the game, in the very least he'd be tied with Bowser, but he can fit.
2. Ganondorf has never been playable and has always been a boss in the Legend of Zelda series. I have no clue what kind of point you were trying to make with that argument.

Anyhow, because Melee, I think the PMBR will take the approach of characters that were frequently requested for Melee but didn't make it into Brawl and probably won't make it into 4. So I predict Ridley and Toad for sure, maybe Pichu (if they feel like getting creative with getting a self-damaging character competitive) or Geno (unless they're counting him as 3rd party, idk). Maybe even Skull Kid. Personally, that's actually all I expect in the forseeable future just because it takes so long to create and balance 1 character. I don't expect to see Ridley and Toad for another year or two at the very least.

EDIT: Well, got ninja'd on the counterargument, but I'll leave it up just to emphasize how obvious it is.

Ridley has been shrunk, and it shows that his proportions do not stand up to that. Have you seen the model? It looks terrible; not because of the quality of the work, but because of the proportions.
Regardless, this is not an argument for him. It's an argument against the fact that he is too big, but it's not a good one.

Also, Toad? Are you ****ing kidding me? He is a filler character. That's all. He only exists as a background character or extra in a lot of mario games, and in the others, he's only playable as a filler for "well... we want there to be four characters, but we don't want two marios on screen... I guess we'll just use toad".
god damn it's like you people spend all day in the smash4 forums where you circle jerk your terrible opinions until the game comes out, and if anyone disagrees, you disregard it as "Just a hater's opinion."

 

[Pseudomaniac]

How is resizing a character bad design though? I really fail to see where you're coming from.

 

[Shin F.]

That is likely a hardware limitation, early games had very restrictive limits for sprite sizes. It's even the reason mario had a mustache and hat instead of a mouth and hair. His size was fixed in later games. It's a limitation, not an accurate representation. This is grasping for straws, stop ****ing dwelling on it.

It clearly wasn't a limitation in Melee's opening. He was much bigger than that in the Prime games on the same system.

It's melee, not metroid. It's not canon.

It's Project M / Brawl, not Metroid. It's not canon. See how that goes both ways?

I agree. Ganondorf is too big, only a boss, and never playable; we should remove him.
...
See how that works? Citing ****ty inclusion choices from in-game characters is not an argument for even more ****ty inclusions. It's an argument against said character. Olimar's drastic up-sizing is also not an argument for resizing characters, it's an argument against including olimar at all. The difference here is that if he were properly sized, he couldn't even be in the game at all, even as a non-playable character. Ridley's size is good enough for a boss, olimar's isn't good enough for anything. The only option for him was to not be included, or be resized, at which point he might as well be playable since all his other attributes are in line. But I digress. Citing examples of Sakurai's bad design decisions does not mean more of them should be made.
Besides, Ganon isn't thqt much bigger than Link. He's a lot bigger than toon/young link. Rightfully so, considering they are children and he's a beast of a man-warlock.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. The fact that he is included and works fine is an argument that it can be done for Ridley, not an argument that it should never have been done. That kind of logic is backwards. It's not bad design. If you want Ganondorf and Olimar removed because they're not canon enough for you, you can take them out of your build with the Custom CSS Code.

Ganondorf is monstrously sized even next to adult Link. Or have you forgotten this?

Spoiler

I suppose that's bad design, too, and that Ganondorf needs to be taken out of Twilight Princess because he doesn't match his Ocarina of Time size, huh?

god damn it's like you people spend all day in the smash4 forums where you circle jerk your terrible opinions until the game comes out, and if anyone disagrees, you disregard it as "Just a hater's opinion."

Oh, yes, I'm sure that's why we're here in the Project M forums debating like sensible people whilst you spew the same point of Ridley being too big and try to argue that characters like Ganondorf and Olimar don't belong in a game where the whole point is to bring Nintendo Stars together regardless of what canon says. The entire Smash Bros series is a big middle finger to the canon of every other Nintendo series, and you really want to try arguing that it's important?

 

[arcticfox8]

Dr. Luigi for Clone Engine

 

[DrinkingFood]

It clearly wasn't a limitation in Melee's opening. He was much bigger than that in the Prime games on the same system.


It's Project M / Brawl, not Metroid. It's not canon. See how that goes both ways?


Wrong, wrong and wrong. The fact that he is included and works fine is an argument that it can be done for Ridley, not an argument that it should never have been done. That kind of logic is backwards. It's not bad design. If you want Ganondorf and Olimar removed because they're not canon enough for you, you can take them out of your build with the Custom CSS Code.

Ganondorf is monstrously sized even next to adult Link. Or have you forgotten this?

Spoiler

I suppose that's bad design, too, and that Ganondorf needs to be taken out of Twilight Princess because he doesn't match his Ocarina of Time size, huh?

Hot damn you just don't stop do you? My logic in none of those statements is backwards, it's spot on until you extend it to games that I never claimed it to apply to. Tell me, how many metroid games have you played? Are you not biased? I know that I am not. I haven't played any metroid games to their conclusion, only ever started like 2, haven't fought Ridley. You might say this does make me biased for characters from other games over him, which would be true, if I really played other games that much either. All the nintendo games I have played I do not expect more reps from. I'm more interested in seeing characters from franchises I haven't been exposed to much. And Metroid actually falls under that. But I do not want ridley. Because he is too big. Again, other characters being too big doesn't mean it's okay to just throw size relevance out the window. The other characters have precedence in smash, they aren't going to be cut because P:MBR doesn't work that way, they work with who they have been given. Ridley does not have precedence as a character, only as a boss. As such, he doesn't get a free pass on bad logic like the other characters do simply for the fact that they were already included. For some of them, their continued inclusion is contigent on their initial inclusion, not on whether or not it makes sense to resize them or otherwise change them. Their resizing isn't a factor because they already have that precedence. Other than precedence, some of them have very little going for them, just like Ridley. Since we can't just remove them, we can at least avoid adding even more characters with little going for them.

I'm calling it a night, if I have motivation for more cancer tomorrow I'll come back to this thread to read the inevitably circular discussions.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I honestly don't see how inconsistency with size is such a big deal in the context of a noncanon fighting game. Resizing isn't a bad design choice if it makes sense to do it.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

And smash bros representation is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. We are PLAYING smash bros, and smash bros is about bringing together the best of the best Nintendo character to duke it out, all the Nintendo characters are what makes up smash, they ARE smash bros, why the **** do we need to take a boring generic pawn off of the ****ty story mode and make h a character?
Why do we need representation of the game we are playing? I just don't understand

You know, it's really a shame that so many Smash Bros fans have never even heard of the often underappreciated Smash Bros franchise. A representative in Smash Bros could be just the kind of thing Smash Bros needs to get it's name out there. If Sakurai will continue to insult Smash Bros by refusing to give it just one single representative in Smash Bros, the most beloved crossover fighting game in the history of gaming, then it's up to the PMBR to give Smash Bros a chance to be in Smash Bros.

And that's why Primid, Tabuu, Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Sandbag should fill the remaining character slots. Thank you.

 

[Shin F.]

Tell me, how many metroid games have you played? Are you not biased? I know that I am not. I haven't played any metroid games to their conclusion, only ever started like 2, haven't fought Ridley. You might say this does make me biased for characters from other games over him, which would be true, if I really played other games that much either.

There it is, right there. Why do you think you're even qualified to argue about Ridley if you haven't even played the games?

In fact, I have played and beaten many Metroid games. And you know what? On a personal level, I despise Ridley. I honestly find him a boring and uninteresting character whose appearance in Metroid is just a chore to get to the next part. The only reasons I would add him are because people do like him, and because he's a major character from a major series, certainly more so than Roy. In fact, before I lost access to my old account, I once used the exact same anti-Ridley arguments precisely because I didn't like him, and I knew the entire time I was talking out of my ass.

Because he is too big. Again, other characters being too big doesn't mean it's okay to just throw size relevance out the window. The other characters have precedence in smash, they aren't going to be cut because P:MBR doesn't work that way, they work with who they have been given. Ridley does not have precedence as a character, only as a boss. As such, he doesn't get a free pass on bad logic like the other characters do simply for the fact that they were already included. For some of them, their continued inclusion is contigent on their initial inclusion, not on whether or not it makes sense to resize them or otherwise change them. Their resizing isn't a factor because they already have that precedence. Other than precedence, some of them have very little going for them, just like Ridley. Since we can't just remove them, we can at least avoid adding even more characters with little going for them.

EXACTLY. Smash has set the precedence for resizing characters. Why should that precedence apply solely to characters that have already been resized? Resizing has been a part of Smash since the first game. (Kirby)

My logic in none of those statements is backwards, it's spot on until you extend it to games that I never claimed it to apply to.

No, it is backwards. You're saying that the canonical sizes should matter in a non-canon game that has already disregarded canon sizes in the past, with the same character we're talking about no less.

 

[JediLink]

Are we seriously having the freaking size arguments again? Some people will never quit.

Smash is non-canon, and therefore nothing really matters. The world's not going to end because Ridley is smaller than usual. If seeing a smaller-than-usual Ridley is really going to irritate you, then don't play as him and you should be fine.

There are many, many people who want to see Ridley playable and they're all totally cool with Ridley being resized. Don't tell us that we shouldn't want something just because you don't want it.

 

[Chzrm3]

Yeah, I definitely don't see Ridley's size as a problem. If anything, I want more heavy characters. : >

Also, my brother's been playing WW HD lately so I've got a soft spot for Tetra again. It made me wonder - what limits are there to how many weapons a character can have? That is to say, if Tetra had a cutlass, a grappling hook, a skull hammer, a moblin spear/sword/stick etc etc etc, is that a problem? Does she need a certain number of artifacts to be able to pull all that stuff out? Or is it stored in a totally different way, where it's okay for her to have as many as are needed, as long as they're not projectiles?

 

[Arteen]

For the record, Ridley looks small in the Melee intro due to perspective. Ridley's actually just as big there as he is in every other appearance (Metroid 1 aside).

Ridley's also huge in the Prime games, which are not taken into account in that comparison chart. So really, the first game is the only game where he isn't gigantic compared to Samus. And the Metroid 1 Ridley looks completely different from every other incarnation anyway.

 

[arcticfox8]

Ray is too big
Ray is too small

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Ray is too big
Ridley is too small

fix'd

 

[arcticfox8]

 

[Solbliminal]

Okay this argument is getting out of hand. To slay this stupid beast of a beaten to death discussion, any ridiculous protest against Ridley because of his size is an absolute joke. Honestly I hate this character mostly because of his design, but I don't see a single reason why him being down-scaled should be a "con". The argument is about as relevant as how overpowered Issac's Earth demolishing moveset is in Golden Sun when compared to even a single character in Smash Bros. Characters implemented into Smash have always had some tweaks to make them fit into the setting of the game. Get rid of that pathetic lack of imagination most of you people have and learn how to be open minded, because Ridley isn't moving from the top of the chart. Just like how Shadow is never leaving the bottom.

Back to Ray now please?

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

Personally I think Ray would win in that matchup.


Also seriously, if Drinking Food isn't trolling I don't know what's going though his head.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Okay this argument is getting out of hand. To slay this stupid beast of a beaten to death discussion, any ridiculous protest against Ridley because of his size is an absolute joke. Honestly I hate this character mostly because of his design, but I don't see a single reason why him being down-scaled should be a "con". The argument is about as relevant as how overpowered Issac's Earth demolishing moveset is in Golden Sun when compared to even a single character in Smash Bros. Characters implemented into Smash have always had some tweaks to make them fit into the setting of the game. Get rid of that pathetic lack of imagination most of you people have and learn how to be open minded, because Ridley isn't moving from the top of the chart. Just like how Shadow is never leaving the bottom.

Back to Ray now please?

MARIO BRTOTHERS SHOULDN'T BE IN SMASH 4 CUZ DAY BE OP WIT ONE-HIT KILL JUMP ON YORE FACE MOOVEZ!

 

[Solbliminal]

Personally I think Ray would win in that matchup.


Also seriously, if Drinking Food isn't trolling I don't know what's going though his head.

Honestly, I myself just don't like Ridley. It is a matter of personal taste. That doesn't mean I'm going to argue against the character. I would rather discuss characters that people would quite possibly like, such as Ray, rather than argue against ones I do not like or am indifferent to myself. It comes across as being selfish minded. That is one of the reasons I initially didn't like the thought of anti-votes. Discussions like this become a common thing, because others won't let go the position of some characters. I flat out gave up on trying to show support for Shadow because of things like this.

Also, HayabusaTaichou. Rasgar came up with a pretty solid Final Smash for Ray a page ago. Not much different from what we had in mind, and it works.

MARIO BRTOTHERS SHOULDN'T BE IN SMASH 4 CUZ DAY BE OP WIT ONE-HIT KILL JUMP ON YORE FACE MOOVEZ!

Pretty much this, yeah. Good example. Now multiply that by 3 Falcon Punches and 2 Ganon Punches and you get the outcome of most Issac's movepool.....or this...

Spoiler

 

[Arteen]

Okay this argument is getting out of hand. To slay this stupid beast of a beaten to death discussion, any ridiculous protest against Ridley because of his size is an absolute joke. Honestly I hate this character mostly because of his design, but I don't see a single reason why him being down-scaled should be a "con". The argument is about as relevant as how overpowered Issac's Earth demolishing moveset is in Golden Sun when compared to even a single character in Smash Bros. Characters implemented into Smash have always had some tweaks to make them fit into the setting of the game. Get rid of that pathetic lack of imagination most of you people have and learn how to be open minded, because Ridley isn't moving from the top of the chart. Just like how Shadow is never leaving the bottom.

Back to Ray now please?

Try not using immature insults as a way to back up your arguments.

As far as a "pathetic lack of imagination" goes, there's already a mod that shows what Ridley would look like shrunken-down to a practical size. He's thin, frail, and not intimidating.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Try not using immature insults as a way to back up your arguments.

As far as a "pathetic lack of imagination" goes, there's already a mod that shows what Ridley would look like shrunken-down to a practical size. He's thin, frail, and not intimidating.

That model was just the boss model shrunk-down, the PMBR would make their own model that wouldn't look as frail.

 

[Solbliminal]

Try not using immature insults as a way to back up your arguments.

As far as a "pathetic lack of imagination" goes, there's already a mod that shows what Ridley would look like shrunken-down to a practical size. He's thin, frail, and not intimidating.

It is no more immature than bringing up a dead argument because your opinion is different than the majority. Just because some random mod couldn't do it properly does not mean PMBR is incapable of doing it themselves. That is an immature assumption. You are pretty much saying that they who have brought back Mewtwo and Roy and re-balanced an entire roster is incapable of making Ridley fit the P:M environment. You had a better time supporting Issac and I think that is where your time is best spent. Don't waste it on a dead argument that isn't going to change others opinion.

Also. To ease your mind, PMBR is likely to only take on what they think is possible. If they find Ridley to be an impossible task, then they won't do it. Simple as that really. Pick up, move on to a character that IS possible.

 

[Arteen]

It is no more immature than bringing up a dead argument because your opinion is different than the majority.

It was actually the current discussion topic in the thread.

Just because some random mod couldn't do it properly does not mean PMBR is incapable of doing it themselves. That is an immature assumption. You are pretty much saying that they who have brought back Mewtwo and Roy and re-balanced an entire roster is incapable of making Ridley fit the P:M environment. You had a better time supporting Issac and I think that is where your time is best spent. Don't waste it on a dead argument that isn't going to change others opinion.

Also. To ease your mind, PMBR is likely to only take on what they think is possible. If they find Ridley to be an impossible task, then they won't do it. Simple as that really. Pick up, move on to a character that IS possible.

Despite being at a solid #2 on the polls, I haven't seen much discussion about how Ridley would actually be a viable choice. IMO, he seems like one of the most difficult choices possible. Bringing back Mewtwo and Roy is an impressive feat, but both of those characters were already in Melee. A Ridley moveset would need to be designed and built from scratch. It's a monumentally more difficult effort.

Ridley's unusual proportions and posture also don't make him easily cloneable. I've seen people say he could be Charizard clone, but it would be an awkward fit at best. PMBR is also on the record for saying that clones and partial clones are much more appealing character choices, since that requires much less animation work. The current Ridley mod cleverly reuses some of Ridley's boss animations, so PMBR might be able to draw from there.

Personally, I think "classic" Ridley would actually be the best fit for Project M. They'd have to make the model from scratch, but he'd be straightforward to clone from Charizard and he would be a lot less awkward to animate.

 

[Solbliminal]

It was actually the current discussion topic in the thread.

What I said: "It is no more immature than bringing up a dead argument because your opinion is different than the majority."

What I meant: "It is no more immature than bringing up a dead argument because a very small select few have a different opinion than the majority."

It wasn't meant to be an accusation towards you starting the argument, but it was to point out that you are feeding the immature discussion that was brought up. I was doing the opposite by trying to end it.

Despite being at a solid #2 on the polls, I haven't seen much discussion about how Ridley would actually be a viable choice. IMO, he seems like one of the most difficult choices possible. Bringing back Mewtwo and Roy is an impressive feat, but both of those characters were already in Melee. A Ridley moveset would need to be designed and built from scratch. It's a monumentally more difficult effort.

Ridley's unusual proportions and posture also don't make him easily cloneable. I've seen people say he could be Charizard clone, but it would be an awkward fit at best. PMBR is also on the record for saying that clones and partial clones are much more appealing character choices, since that requires much less animation work. The current Ridley mod cleverly reuses some of Ridley's boss animations, so PMBR might be able to draw from there.

Personally, I think "classic" Ridley would actually be the best fit for Project M. They'd have to make the model from scratch, but he'd be straightforward to clone from Charizard and he would be a lot less awkward to animate.

This is your opinion versus the majority. If a huge margin of Ridley supporters can see it possible enough to vote for him, then I think this argument becomes pointless. If you want a solid discussion about Ridley, talk to ChronoBound. I'm not one who can defend the character personally, because I'm not a Metroid fan. I was simply reassuring that no matter how this argument progresses, you are not going to change the opinion of the majority. I even stated that PMBR will do what is entirely capable of them if they decide to make more characters, so it is not like I'm saying they are or are not capable of doing it. I'm just not assuming the "can't" do it like you are proclaiming by the argument against his posture, size, and model work.

Spoiler

And unlike the arguments made earlier, Ridley is indeed scaled down in the Melee intro. Even in the Melee trophy, the character doesn't really look out of place if it were to be scaled to a reasonable size. It is just a matter of making Ridley's stance fit. Any comment made about how he can't be worked into a playable state is indeed not using your imagination, and therefore an unfair con against the character. The character doesn't have to be 100%, down to the shaft measurements, accurate. I sincerely ask that you look at Melee Mewtwo and compare it to P:M Mewtwo. Melee Mewtwo has a super deformed clump of a head and small body structure that isn't even remotely accurate to his actual Pokemon appearance. They fixed this problem and gave Mewtwo an appearance that fits P:M. The same can be done with Ridley. And apparently to the #2 position he holds, he deserves the effort.

I'm done talking about Ridley though. I want to get back to my Ray discussion so I can get some more ideas for the moveset I'm drawing out.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

If Ridley got in, what size should he be? I think he would look good if he was 3/4 of Bowser's height.

 

[Solbliminal]

If Ridley got in, what size should he be? I think he would look good if he was 3/4 of Bowser's height.

 

[El Fonz0]

If Ridley got in, what size should he be? I think he would look good if he was 3/4 of Bowser's height.

Over in the Ridley ssb4 thread there was an image of Ridley with red lines on battlefield that could be ridley's size

 

[Solbliminal]

Over in the Ridley ssb4 thread there was an image of Ridley with red lines on battlefield that could be ridley's size

You mean that one I just posted?