New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Empyrean]

I definitely prefer adding new franchises where possible. It enriches the whole game.

Adding Sonic to Brawl didn't just add Sonic to the roster. It added a stage, an assist trophy and awesome music. It added trophies and stickers. It added a whole new universe. Including another Star Fox character, for example, isn't going to add nearly as much.

This makes sense in the context of Smash 4. However, in PM, a new character only adds one thing: a new character. Though I'd be interested in seeing unrepped series, I wouldn't want them to take all slots

 

[Shin F.]

This makes sense in the context of Smash 4. However, in PM, a new character only adds one thing: a new character. Though I'd be interested in seeing unrepped series, I wouldn't want them to take all slots

I was about to mention this myself, although I will say that we could still get a new stage from it, as well.

In any case, having unrepped or underepped series with interesting concepts is infinitely preferable to a well-repped series having a character with an interesting concept.

 

[Solbliminal]

This makes sense in the context of Smash 4. However, in PM, a new character only adds one thing: a new character. Though I'd be interested in seeing unrepped series, I wouldn't want them to take all slots

I was about to mention this myself, although I will say that we could still get a new stage from it, as well.

As much as I agree that a mod does not have the same impact that a new game being released would, the logic still applies. A following is a following. Drawing in more players is the goal of any character's inclusion.

 

[Shin F.]

As much as I agree that a mod does not have the same impact that a new game being released would, the logic still applies. A following is a following. Drawing in more players is the goal of any character's inclusion.

Oh, I certainly agree. Still, it's always important to look at all aspects from every angle. Even without extra trophies and stickers and such, it's still preferable to have new and underrepped series.

Hey, speaking of new series, here's an interesting thought: victory themes. We should find good victory themes for characters like Isaac and Ray, if they don't already have one. For Isaac, there's obviously the beginning of the Golden Sun Victory Fanfare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyCI0FiPPc0

(It would stop at about :06 seconds)

Are there any good ones for Ray, Saki, Advance Wars or Sukapon?

 

[Arteen]

I figure if PMBR wants to add new franchise characters to the roster, they'll at least consider adding a stage from that franchise, as well as music.

 

[Empyrean]

As much as I agree that a mod does not have the same impact that a new game being released would, the logic still applies. A following is a following. Drawing in more players is the goal of any character's inclusion.

Agreed. I could see a new series rep getting more attention than, say, a Starfox or Mario newcomer. But then again, these unrepped series tend to not have huge fandoms, so I wouldn't say that they would reel in too many new players.

I figure if PMBR wants to add new franchise characters to the roster, they'll at least consider adding a stage from that franchise, as well as music.

Though they might reskin one of the current stages (or add a completely new one, not sure how stages work), I'm pretty sure new music is out of the question, since it's not licensed in Brawl, like how they removed the Skyward Sword theme from Skyloft.

 

[Shin F.]

Agreed. I could see a new series rep getting more attention than, say, a Starfox or Mario newcomer. But then again, these unrepped series tend to not have huge fandoms, so I wouldn't say that they would reel in too many new players.

Though they might reskin one of the current stages (or add a completely new one, not sure how stages work), I'm pretty sure new music is out of the question, since it's not licensed in Brawl, like how they removed the Skyward Sword theme from Skyloft.

They should be able to add stages with the Stage Expansion Code.

New Music should be okay, actually. I think a couple of stages have new songs on them. They only really want to avoid licensing issues with playable characters. Otherwise, they would have removed Dracula's Castle.

 

[NWRL]

To the bolded, not exactly. Anything can be considered an interesting concept if approached correctly. But an interesting concept that is about a character from unrepped series, is different than just being an interesting concept. It is an interesting character that has a following that can draw more players into a series.

For instance, Sonic's appearance in Brawl instantly made a large portion of Sonic fans gravitate towards the franchise. This immediately makes the character who is from a series that is fresh to Smash Bros. the better option than a fanbase that has already gotten characters from their series in the game. I doubt a much larger margin of Mario fans that weren't already fans of Smash are going to hop into playing Smash just because one more of his friends got announced.



And this statement further proves my point. The spot goes to the character that will draw new players to the franchise, provide an interesting and unique concept, and introduce players of Smash to a series they may not have seen or had interest in prior to Smash's release.

I definitely see where you're coming from here. In reference to a new Smash game from Nintendo I agree completely, when it's a fan made mod I also say your point beats out mine, but there's also a popularity factor that comes into play too.

 

[PaRappa the Rapper]

They should be able to add stages with the Stage Expansion Code.

New Music should be okay, actually. I think a couple of stages have new songs on them. They only really want to avoid licensing issues with playable characters. Otherwise, they would have removed Dracula's Castle.

New music isn't an issue when you can change the music (BRSTMs) yourself, added some Castlevania tunes to the stage when i got 3.0.

 

[Solbliminal]

The stage for Ray would flat out be The Holosseum. While all stages are technically "Holosseum's" in Custom Robo (Gamecube), this is the standard stage of the list from the game. It is the most common name for the stage and makes the most sense.

As for the victory theme:

 

[Shin F.]

I definitely see where you're coming from here. In reference to a new Smash game from Nintendo I agree completely, when it's a fan made mod I also say your point beats out mine, but there's also a popularity factor that comes into play too.

Hence, the voting system here

New music isn't an issue when you can change the music (BRSTMs) yourself, added some Castlevania tunes to the stage when i got 3.0.

Yeah, but it's a bit different adding music yourself, and having that music in the official release. If it's in the official release, it could cause issues with the whoever actually owns the music.

As I've said, though, I think PMBR only wants to avoid issues with actual, playable characters, or else Castlevania would be gone.

 

[PaRappa the Rapper]

Agreed. I could see a new series rep getting more attention than, say, a Starfox or Mario newcomer. But then again, these unrepped series tend to not have huge fandoms, so I wouldn't say that they would reel in too many new players.

I think PMBR should just focus on delivering characters that:

a) People want
b) Maybe could bring something new and cool to the game
c) Fit the game

Hence, the voting system here

Yeah, but it's a bit different adding music yourself, and having that music in the official release. If it's in the official release, it could cause issues with the whoever actually owns the music.

I know, that's why i was saying it's easy to do it yourself so PMBR don't have to do it and get in trouble. Sorry if i was unclear.

 

[Shin F.]

I know, that's why i was saying it's easy to do it yourself so PMBR don't have to do it and get in trouble. Sorry if i was unclear.

You're fine. I just wanted to be clear, myself.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I think PMBR should just focus on delivering characters that:

a) People want
b) Maybe could bring something new and cool to the game
c) Fit the game

c) What's your definition on "fit in" in a game that has Kirby and Snake duking it out in Dracula's Castle?

 

[Solbliminal]

I definitely see where you're coming from here. In reference to a new Smash game from Nintendo I agree completely, when it's a fan made mod I also say your point beats out mine, but there's also a popularity factor that comes into play too.

Even with the popularity factor, my statement still holds ground. An example:

->Lets say Fire Emblem has 1000 number of fans in Smash while Custom Robo has 0 number of fans in Smash. If you add Lyn, say that adds about +100 Fire Emblem fans that haven't already played Smash or were not interested previously. If you add Ray, say that adds about +1000 fans in Smash. Are you going to pick the:

A) Popular choice of an existing franchise

or

B) Choice that draws in a bigger number

 

[Shin F.]

c) What's your definition on "fit in" in a game that has Kirby and Snake duking it out in Dracula's Castle with Light Sabers?

Fixed

 

[Empyrean]

New music isn't an issue when you can change the music (BRSTMs) yourself, added some Castlevania tunes to the stage when i got 3.0.

I know, I myself added Castlevania music to the stage like you, but like Shin said, having the music in the official release could cause problems. IIRC, they removed the SS theme from Skyloft to avoid having problems with Nintendo.

 

[Chaos Wolf]

For new and unsuggested Reps, perhaps Sylux or one of the other Hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters. Trace? Weevil? Kanden?

Sylux is the biggest of the hunters, but since they've been shown to use similar weaponry to Samus in MP: H, they could be simple clones with slightly changed B moves. For example

Sylux: Much Stronger, but Vastly shorter range
Trace: Weaker, but much smaller, faster projectiles
Kanden: Stronger, Heavier, sinks like a rock
Weevil: Faster, Lighter, weaker

Also, for Wario/Warioware... I picture most of the choices having unconventional movesets like they're ringleader., 8-volt and 16 Volt could homage plenty of unrepped but likely games (I.E. Star Punches)

Ashley, maybe Zelda's unmodded B moves, but with a Down B that randomly casts an item effect on the either her or the person immediately in front of her (i.e. Either of the Mushrooms, Flower poison, Metal Box, etc etc)

 

[Solbliminal]

So to give a little update, my girlfriend is going to be helping me draw out the moveset. She will be drawing the bases for each of Ray's attacks and I will be using the bases to complete a picture of what Ray look's like performing the attack. In the initial post of said pictures, I will include a description of said attack, who's and what animation is being used to perform the attack, and how the attack can be used with Ray's playstyle.

To give a quick example (and note this is only an example and not a sample of the moveset in progress):

~Side Smash - ______ Gun: This attack, Ray fires a blast a short distance in front of him no farther than the width of Bowser's frame. This move's hitbox in height is as big as Wolf's B-Special, and cause tripping on impact.

~The animation being used for this attack is modified from Samus' Side-B.

~This move is used to momentarily stagger the opponents movement long enough to use one of the many combo approach options in Ray's arsenal. An example of this attack being used to start a combo is: Side Smash -> Wavedash once towards target -> Grab -> Pummel once -> Up Throw -> Wavedash once backwards towards target -> Up Smash.

 

[Sharkarat]

I think those ideas for Sylux, Weavel & Trace could just as well work on Dark Samus (not at the same time), and she's a much more popular character. And Weavel should be Heavier, shorter ranged, but stronger rather than your idea imo.
I really don't think they could do Weavel's alt-form, which stops the most interesting thing about him. if it weren't for that he would actually be one of my most wanted.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

So to give a little update, my girlfriend is going to be helping me draw out the moveset. She will be drawing the bases for each of Ray's attacks and I will be using the bases to complete a picture of what Ray look's like performing the attack. In the initial post of said pictures, I will include a description of said attack, who's and what animation is being used to perform the attack, and how the attack can be used with Ray's playstyle.

To give a quick example (and note this is only an example and not a sample of the moveset in progress):

~Side Smash - ______ Gun: This attack, Ray fires a blast a short distance in front of him no farther than the width of Bowser's frame. This move's hitbox in height is as big as Wolf's B-Special, and cause tripping on impact.

~The animation being used for this attack is modified from Samus' Side-B.

~This move is used to momentarily stagger the opponents movement long enough to use one of the many combo approach options in Ray's arsenal. An example of this attack being used to start a combo is: Side Smash -> Wavedash once towards target -> Grab -> Pummel once -> Up Throw -> Wavedash once backwards towards target -> Up Smash.

> Has girlfriend
> Plays video games

PICK ONE!

 

[Solbliminal]

> Has girlfriend
> Plays video games with her.

DAMNNN!

Fixed

 

[Shin F.]

Fixed

Gamer girls are awesome. I knew a couple in high school, but they were always already with someone else whenever I met them, it seemed. Still, they were great to hang around just as friends. You're a lucky one

 

[Solbliminal]

Gamer girls are awesome. I knew a couple in high school, but they were always already with someone else whenever I met them, it seemed. Still, they were great to hang around just as friends. You're a lucky one

I know that feeling. In my first college year, I had a lady friend who hung around me and led me on for an entire day before she realized "OH WAIT!! You thought I was single?! I didn't mean to give you the wrong idea."

But yeah, my girlfriend is a sweetie. Too bad for her, Waluigi isn't liked by the fans here in P:M. She absolutely loves him as a character and wanted him in Smash. But hey, shes got Luigi at least~

 

[PaRappa the Rapper]

> Has girlfriend
> Plays video games

PICK ONE!

Why should I?

 

[Rasgar]

Gamer girls are indeed awesome. I married one

Anyhow, I've been messing around with more weapons, and I wanted to update on a few things I said earlier.

-Apparently my memory on how the Trap Gun works was horribly inaccurate. What the gun actually does is shoot bullets that don't go anywhere, and the little pellets just hover in front of you. THEN they fire at the enemy after a few seconds pass. So basically, it's like shooting with a long delay. Generally you have enough time to shoot three burst before the first one activates, or enough time to get around to the other side of your opponent.

-I found the Claw Gun, for some reason in Arena they changed the name to Catch Gun. I could see this working like Link's clawshot.

-As a possible alternative for the jet mode (in case I can convince anyone to my PoV), there's the Acrobat Bomb/Pod (they're basically the same thing). Instead of firing out, it makes a large explosion under your feet (even in midair) that launches you upwards. In CRA, hitting an enemy with the explosion launches them in the exact same manner, but I see no reason why it can't just hurt enemies instead in Smash.

 

[Solbliminal]

Gamer girls are indeed awesome. I married one

Anyhow, I've been messing around with more weapons, and I wanted to update on a few things I said earlier.

-Apparently my memory on how the Trap Gun works was horribly inaccurate. What the gun actually does is shoot bullets that don't go anywhere, and the little pellets just hover in front of you. THEN they fire at the enemy after a few seconds pass. So basically, it's like shooting with a long delay. Generally you have enough time to shoot three burst before the first one activates, or enough time to get around to the other side of your opponent.

-I found the Claw Gun, for some reason in Arena they changed the name to Catch Gun. I could see this working like Link's clawshot.

-As a possible alternative for the jet mode (in case I can convince anyone to my PoV), there's the Acrobat Bomb/Pod (they're basically the same thing). Instead of firing out, it makes a large explosion under your feet (even in midair) that launches you upwards. In CRA, hitting an enemy with the explosion launches them in the exact same manner, but I see no reason why it can't just hurt enemies instead in Smash.

Not sure if the Trap Gun can be balanced or feasible honestly. But I am glad you found the Catch Gun as well as like the idea of it. Depending on if the concept of your alternative for jet mode can be balanced with the moveset I'm drawing out, I'll see how it works.

Also a matter I want to bring up. I will need ideas and feedback on certain moves when I complete the moveset to establish the balance and overall feasibility of Ray. Unlike the Lyn moveset, I'm going to continue to update this movelist until I can reach absolute satisfaction of the majority here. Is that okay with everyone?

 

[Anti Guy]

For new and unsuggested Reps, perhaps Sylux or one of the other Hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters. Trace? Weevil? Kanden?

Sylux is the biggest of the hunters, but since they've been shown to use similar weaponry to Samus in MP: H, they could be simple clones with slightly changed B moves. For example

Sylux: Much Stronger, but Vastly shorter range
Trace: Weaker, but much smaller, faster projectiles
Kanden: Stronger, Heavier, sinks like a rock
Weevil: Faster, Lighter, weaker

Also, for Wario/Warioware... I picture most of the choices having unconventional movesets like they're ringleader., 8-volt and 16 Volt could homage plenty of unrepped but likely games (I.E. Star Punches)

Ashley, maybe Zelda's unmodded B moves, but with a Down B that randomly casts an item effect on the either her or the person immediately in front of her (i.e. Either of the Mushrooms, Flower poison, Metal Box, etc etc)

I'm not sure why the Hunters keep coming up. They were in like what, 1 game? I don't even know who they are. Most people don't know who they are. How can they represent the series?

But that's not even the biggest problem. We already have two VERY strong candidates for Metroid. Ridley and Dark Samus. Both are very popular, and if Ridley can't get in, then Dark Samus is a very strong candidate with strong cloneability and many options to set her apart from the base with her phazon-based weaponry. If there is ANY series that does not need more ideas for, it's Metroid, because I feel like it's highly highly likely that one of these two will make it in.

 

[Solbliminal]

I'm not sure why the Hunters keep coming up. They were in like what, 1 game? I don't even know who they are. Most people don't know who they are. How can they represent the series?

But that's not even the biggest problem. We already have two VERY strong candidates for Metroid. Ridley and Dark Samus. Both are very popular, and if Ridley can't get in, then Dark Samus is a very strong candidate with strong cloneability and many options to set her apart from the base with her phazon-based weaponry. If there is ANY series that does not need more ideas for, it's Metroid, because I feel like it's highly highly likely that one of these two will make it in.

Oh hello there Anti-Guy! I wanted to ask you before if I'm still allowed to change that vote for Shadow. Given how shakey his chances are, and how people are imploring 3rd party doesn't stand a chance because of the C&D arguement / Nintendo comes first, I feel his support is best left at a half vote so I can show my full support for Ray.

 

[KaneStaff]

Skull kid!!! Give him a half point, please! I wish I hadn't already voted... Skull Kid is my #1 choice! Haha, oh well.

 

[Anti Guy]

Oh hello there Anti-Guy! I wanted to ask you before if I'm still allowed to change that vote for Shadow. Given how shakey his chances are, an how people are imploring 3rd party doesn't stand a chance, I feel his support is best left at a half vote so I can show my full support for Ray.

If you haven't changed your votes before, then you can update it once. I'm really opposed to you changing your Shadow vote though because you feel really strongly about him. Your votes should reflect your feeling, and not be based on the current standings, otherwise the votes lose their meaning. You can change your vote if you want Ray in more than one of the five you've picked (but like I said, not because one of those five has a poor chance).

As for your moveset, I'd consider two things to make it worth your time.

1) Think of the overall playstyle first. Like Luigi and Jigglypuff are strong aerial fighters. IC and Dedede have strong grab games. Link and Samus have heavy projectile use. Brawl- was creative with Olimar by making the Pikmin stationary. Could Ray be like Mega Man where even his regular attacks have some kind of projectile/ranged element to them? He was only a shooter, from what I understood. He could be heavily focused on spacing but lack finishing strength as a compromise. Or would you make up random punches and kicks to supplement his projectiles?

2) More important to this thread, IMO, is viability in programming. Keep in mind the articles available, especially since I'd imagine he'd be dependent on projectiles. Maybe you can incorporate fake projectiles and stuff to circumvent that. Also maybe animations. One of the things I liked about the Lyn moveset is the idea that several attacks would have the same startup animation to make her unpredictable. That also saves on animation work. Maybe if Ray could be cost-effective with animations (i.e. using the same stance, but shooting different things), that's something else to consider.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I think people should at least have a chance to change a full vote to a character that was thought of after all 5 votes were used.

 

[Anti Guy]

I think people should at least have a chance to change a full vote to a character that was thought of after all 5 votes were used.

Yeah, that's what I'm allowing. But with hesitation. It makes me wonder if you really liked that character that much... then why didn't you even think to vote for him in the first place? I already have a lot of crazy +1s as it is.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Also, do you know if I have voted yet anti guy?

 

[Anti Guy]

Also, do you know if I have voted yet anti guy?

I don't have anything for you

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I don't have anything for you

good, just wanted to make sure

 

[Solbliminal]

If you haven't changed your votes before, then you can update it once. I'm really opposed to you changing your Shadow vote though because you feel really strongly about him. Your votes should reflect your feeling, and not be based on the current standings, otherwise the votes lose their meaning. You can change your vote if you want Ray in more than one of the five you've picked (but like I said, not because one of those five has a poor chance).

As for your moveset, I'd consider two things to make it worth your time.

1) Think of the overall playstyle first. Like Luigi and Jigglypuff are strong aerial fighters. IC and Dedede have strong grab games. Link and Samus have heavy projectile use. Brawl- was creative with Olimar by making the Pikmin stationary. Could Ray be like Mega Man where even his regular attacks have some kind of projectile/ranged element to them? He was only a shooter, from what I understood. He could be heavily focused on spacing but lack finishing strength as a compromise. Or would you make up random punches and kicks to supplement his projectiles?

2) More important to this thread, IMO, is viability in programming. Keep in mind the articles available, especially since I'd imagine he'd be dependent on projectiles. Maybe you can incorporate fake projectiles and stuff to circumvent that. Also maybe animations. One of the things I liked about the Lyn moveset is the idea that several attacks would have the same startup animation to make her unpredictable. That also saves on animation work. Maybe if Ray could be cost-effective with animations (i.e. using the same stance, but shooting different things), that's something else to consider.

Thank you for the feedback. And if you want to keep tabs on my progress more deeply, I am inclined to give you my skype to share it more thoroughly. As for my vote for Shadow, I'll give a more of an in depth reasoning behind why I've chose to do so.

-Custom Robo was a game that kind of slipped my mind during my initial votes, and something I mistakenly overlooked. It is literally a game I owned and loved, but as time went by it just kind of went to the back of my mind. I had somewhat of a limited understanding of the choices before me and chose the characters I either found to be most interesting, or ones I felt should be in. If I had to pick a more sincere character to replace on my votes, that would be Primid, because the character shows little promise when compared to the large list before me after seeing a more thorough display of characters. He was a vote I felt highly about before my understanding of clones, feasibility, and other matters that go into how much time is required of a character as well as their true demand in appearance. But if I were to replace Shadow, it is because I don't want a vote to have so many reasons to be wasted, no matter how strongly I feel of the character. It is ultimately up to you if you will allow my vote change to waver or not. I'm taking this far more seriously than before.

To wrap this up, I gave it sincere thought and would not be making a moveset if I didn't completely support a character I felt deserved the position.

 

[arcticfox8]

Gosh people keep talking about Ridley and Dark Samus, but I'm bout to blow your minds with the true Smash worthy Metroid villain.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Gosh people keep talking about Ridley and Dark Samus, but I'm bout to blow your minds with the true Smash worthy Metroid villain.

I was JUST about to post this.

 

[Solbliminal]

Gosh people keep talking about Ridley and Dark Samus, but I'm bout to blow your minds with the true Smash worthy Metroid villain.

Kraid for P:M Space Emissary