New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Spire]

This is PMBR. If they can't pull it off, no one can. It would be so epic to see him play like that - he'd be a really advanced character with the switching mechanism.

One question for thought: which part needs to be KO'd for it to count? Skull Kid or Majora?.

To balance, one of the two halves would either take priority (like Ice Climbers), or if either half dies they both die. It could go like this:

• Majora's Mask, separately controlled, would be faster and ungrounded completely. If Skull Kid dies, it would disappear. It'd be like leaving Popo and controlling Nana, only gaining total levitation. As Majora's Mask, you'd have far more control of the stage, but you'd also have to protect Skull Kid. Perhaps Skull Kid cannot be controlled without Majora's Mask, as he falls limp upon separation. The separation only allows control over the Mask, but if Skull Kid is destroyed, the Mask immediately disappears and you respawn with one less stock.

Wait a minute... Palutena would be a great addition! Another Kid Icarus rep with an available model. +1 Female, +1 Magic User. Has she been discussed?

 

[AnOkayDM]

I agree for the most part, although... I'm still very fascinated by that Mask Link idea, the one without the transforming but just the changing stats.

It's an interesting idea, and one I could get behind if there weren't better choices. However, for all the dedicated Samus mains who whined about her stance change, and the fact that the people who want Young Link back feel that way because Toon Link isn't enough like the character they knew, can you imagine the potential backlash if they changed Young Link that drastically?

 

[Solbliminal]

We don't need to revive Young Link though. That's what Toon Link is for. I love The Legend of Zelda and would gush over maximum representation thereof, but I respect the space and necessity that other series deserve. I stand by the notion that if The Legend of Zelda gets a new rep, it should be Skull Kid. The only addition to that would be the Ganondorf / Black Shadow split. The Legend of Zelda would then gain two new movesets, but only one new slot. The series is oversaturated with heroes as is—we need another villain!

Whatever you say, but that doesn't change my stance on the character. You won't convince me otherwise. Kafei is more feasible than Skull Kid, and Tetra is being explained as a semi-Toon Link clone as it is. It isn't even NEARLY a stretch to allow him use of the items in Majora's Mask. Ness barrows moves from the party members in his game, R.O.B. literally had no grounds to work with other than his top, and Captain Falcon / the Star Fox crew literally only drove futuristic space age vehicles in their initial game appearances before the first Smash.

While I like Skull Kid, and your argument is very well constructed, Kafei isn't a standalone Link clone. It is a hybrid Sheik and Young Link clone. With tools like Bomb-Chu, Ice Arrows, and the Great Fairy Sword, Kafei having the said hybrid moveset would greatly benefit from the mix by being able to quickly close the gap between himself and the player he is fighting.

And in all honesty, why not just have both anyways? With Pichu practically getting confirmed, it isn't like getting another Zelda character is going to kill anyone. Seriously. After all the "Pichu was in Melee hue hue", it should NOT matter how much representation there is. I honestly do not want to hear it.

 

[Shin F.]

It's an interesting idea, and one I could get behind if there weren't better choices. However, for all the dedicated Samus mains who whined about her stance change, and the fact that the people who want Young Link back feel that way because Toon Link isn't enough like the character they knew, can you imagine the potential backlash if they changed Young Link that drastically?

Point taken, although to be fair, the stance changes on both of them would be/are strictly optional since they're mapped to taunts.

Say, what would people think if PMBR could map Zelda and Sheik's change to a taunt and give them both a proper down B? It would be interesting for people who main one but not the other...

 

[Spire]

Or to break all rules and separate them indefinitely, changing Sheik into Skyward Sword's Impa

Kafei would be a decent alternate Link representative, bringing back some Young Link flavor, but exploring unused items (Ice Arrows require the bow... Toon Link should be able to alternate between Fire and Ice Arrows via taunt or something). Kafei could also be our Mask Link, not the transformable one, but the status/effect changing version discussed previously. Since he is known for sporting the Keaton Mask, he could wear others as well.

Kafei could basically be our unsung hero of Termina. He could be our Mask Link. So..

Kafei or Skull Kid?

 

[Solbliminal]

Or to break all rules and separate them indefinitely, changing Sheik into Skyward Sword's Impa

Kafei would be a decent alternate Link representative, bringing back some Young Link flavor, but exploring unused items (Ice Arrows require the bow... Toon Link should be able to alternate between Fire and Ice Arrows via taunt or something). Kafei could also be our Mask Link, not the transformable one, but the status/effect changing version discussed previously. Since he is known for sporting the Keaton Mask, he could wear others as well.

...Which is something I stated when I initially brought up Kafei in the first place.

 

[Spire]

...Which is something I stated when I initially brought up Kafei in the first place.

You like to claim your ideas a lot. Don't assume everyone reads every page. I don't care if I'm the originator of an idea that might take fruition some day. What's important is that we discuss ideas, even those brought up time and again by users unbeknownst of their previous discussion. There's too much to catch up on. If an idea is mused by more than one person, then that's a sign we—as a collective—might be on to something. There's no ownership of ideas—think of it positively!

 

[Inawordyes]

Or to break all rules and separate them indefinitely, changing Sheik into Skyward Sword's Impa

Kafei would be a decent alternate Link representative, bringing back some Young Link flavor, but exploring unused items (Ice Arrows require the bow... Toon Link should be able to alternate between Fire and Ice Arrows via taunt or something). Kafei could also be our Mask Link, not the transformable one, but the status/effect changing version discussed previously. Since he is known for sporting the Keaton Mask, he could wear others as well.

Kafei could basically be our unsung hero of Termina. He could be our Mask Link. So..

Kafei or Skull Kid?

Skull Kid. I see the potential in Kafei, but if all we're gonna get out of him would basically be a third Link with a different skin, then I'm gonna go with the main antagonist with a unique-able moveset over a side character.

... That sounded mean, haha. Between the two, I'd really much rather have Skull Kid, as I want to see a creepy magic user rather than a replacement for Young/Masked Link to get around actually including three links in the game. And yes, I am aware that I am severely downplaying his potential, but even you said as much above.

(Still sounds mean, haha. Sorry. )

 

[AnOkayDM]

Point taken, although to be fair, the stance changes on both of them would be/are strictly optional since they're mapped to taunts.

Say, what would people think if PMBR could map Zelda and Sheik's change to a taunt and give them both a proper down B? It would be interesting for people who main one but not the other...

True, but the argument goes that to not use them would be hindering yourself on purpose.

I don't know if a transformation like that is possible via a taunt, and I think the balance implications would have to be considered very carefully. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but I'm sure some people would be. Plus, when they separated the Pokémon Trainer characters and kept Zelda and Sheik together, I think they made their choice pretty obvious.

Kafei or Skull Kid?

Skull Kid. Having a third Link playstyle would be pointless, especially if it's not the one people actually want. (Speaking of sounding mean... )

 

[Solbliminal]

You like to claim your ideas a lot. Don't assume everyone reads every page. I don't care if I'm the originator of an idea that might take fruition some day. What's important is that we discuss ideas, even those brought up time and again by users unbeknownst of their previous discussion. There's too much to catch up on. If an idea is mused by more than one person, then that's a sign we—as a collective—might be on to something. There's no ownership of ideas—think of it positively!

No no, I understand your point. And yes I do claim my ideas, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to discuss them. To me it does matter merely because I'm an artist aspiring to be a game designer, and one thing I can't stand is to see my ideas getting jacked. It isn't anything personal against you.

That aside, I do agree with you completely though. Masked Hero of Termina or Unused tools of Link would be preferable for a character like Kafei. I can go either way on this discussion. I just honestly like the character enough to believe he deserves exposure. Rather it be as a clone or unique character.

 

[Shin F.]

Kafei or Skull Kid?

Skull Kid. I liked Kafei. He's my favorite sidequest character, and the parallels between him and Link always fascinated me, but Skull Kid is more suited to Smash Bros. I realize that Kafei has potential, but... well,

I see the potential in Kafei, but if all we're gonna get out of him would basically be a third Link with a different skin, then I'm gonna go with the main antagonist with a unique-able moveset over a side character.

 

[Banjodorf]

I don't actually understand why Samus mains could possibly complain about the stance change. Everything in the Plasma stance is exactly the same, you just have more options if you want them. ****in people.

That Skull Kid idea was pretty pro Spire. It'd be nice if they COULD do that.

However, in terms of villains, I really think the best bet is Ridley.

A. He's the 2nd choice in terms of votes.
B. He's got a lot of in-game voice files that can be expanded upon, and in-game art.
C. he's got a lot of PSA work.
D. It's ****ing Ridley. The fact he doesn't already rep Metroid in Smash is astonishing.
While he may be difficult to decide on a size, he seems simple enough to base on Charizard, and I really just doubt the PMBR would go for Dark Samus, and pass up a chance to match or EXCEED the Mewtwo/Roy hype by being the ones to REALLY bring Ridley to the fans and competitive scene.

 

[Solbliminal]

Skull Kid. I liked Kafei. He's my favorite sidequest character, and the parallels between him and Link always fascinated me, but Skull Kid is more suited to Smash Bros. I realize that Kafei has potential, but... well,

Is that really the reason no one is supporting his potential? I thought the point of this discussion was to find a character that met the criteria of a clone like Pichu or Roy to ease the workload for PMBR. If that were the case, I would have wrote out an original moveset for him ages ago.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Is that really the reason no one is supporting his potential? I thought the point of this discussion was to find a character that met the criteria of a clone like Pichu or Roy to ease the workload for PMBR. If that were the case, I would have wrote out an original moveset for him ages ago.

Kafei is always gonna be overshadowed by Skull Kid. You know that, right? I'm not trying to get you down, but people aren't supporting Kafei because they prefer Skull Kid.

 

[Shin F.]

Is that really the reason no one is supporting his potential? I thought the point of this discussion was to find a character that met the criteria of a clone like Pichu or Roy to ease the workload for PMBR. If that were the case, I would have wrote out an original moveset for him ages ago.

That and the fact that there are more important Zelda characters that are possibilities. Look at it this way: If you could have a new Sonic character, would you choose some side character like... Silver or Big? Or would you go for one of the big 3 (Tails, Knuckles, Shadow)?

When it comes down to it, Kafei is a side character, no two ways about it. He doesn't fit the title of "Nintendo All-Star" the way that Skull Kid or Tetra/Telda do. Yes, he has unique moveset potential, but so do the more important characters.

 

[Solbliminal]

Kafei is always gonna be overshadowed by Skull Kid. You know that, right? I'm not trying to get you down, but people aren't supporting Kafei because they prefer Skull Kid.

That isn't going to make him any more feasible than he already is. He is just another Ridley case, where as Kafei has plenty of clonability from both Sheik and Young Link. I don't understand you people. 1 minute you all clamor over Pichu and how unique he can be, but the moment I drop Kafei the conversation's tide changes.

That and the fact that there are more important Zelda characters that are possibilities. Look at it this way: If you could have a new Sonic character, would you choose some side character like... Silver or Big? Or would you go for one of the big 3 (Tails, Knuckles, Shadow)?

When it comes down to it, Kafei is a side character, no two ways about it. He doesn't fit the title of "Nintendo All-Star" the way that Skull Kid or Tetra/Telda do. Yes, he has unique moveset potential, but so do the more important characters.

Between you and me, I would pick Silver out of that lot.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

That and the fact that there are more important Zelda characters that are possibilities. Look at it this way: If you could have a new Sonic character, would you choose some side character like... Silver or Big? Or would you go for one of the big 3 (Tails, Knuckles, Shadow)?

When it comes down to it, Kafei is a side character, no two ways about it. He doesn't fit the title of "Nintendo All-Star" the way that Skull Kid or Tetra/Telda do. Yes, he has unique moveset potential, but so do the more important characters.

HEY! SILVER IS A VERY IMPORTANT CHARACTER IN....... Sonic 06..... I`ll shut up now.

 

[Inawordyes]

Is that really the reason no one is supporting his potential? I thought the point of this discussion was to find a character that met the criteria of a clone like Pichu or Roy to ease the workload for PMBR. If that were the case, I would have wrote out an original moveset for him ages ago.

Kafei is always gonna be overshadowed by Skull Kid. You know that, right? I'm not trying to get you down, but people aren't supporting Kafei because they prefer Skull Kid.

I support Kafei, I think he would be really cool. Just as I support a lot of characters that would be awesome to have in the game. But at the end of the day, we only have five (four?) slots, and Skull Kid has more going for him ultimately in the end than Kafei does. Ideally, I would like both in the game, but neither could get in, and if not, we have to choose one, and that one would probably end up being Skull Kid. If he isn't eligible due to the grey area surrounding his AT inclusion in SM4SH, then by all means, bring on Kafei - I would enjoy that very much so - but if not, then I think that Skull Kid takes precedence.

 

[AnOkayDM]

That isn't going to make him any more feasible than he already is. He is just another Ridley case, where as Kafei has plenty of clonability from both Sheik and Young Link. I don't understand you people. 1 minute you all clamor over Pichu and how unique he can be, but the moment I drop Kafei the conversation's tide changes.

"You people," nice. You should know I despise the idea of Pichu, and think he's an immense waste of a slot, so thanks for lumping me in there.

Secondly, Skull Kid is plenty feasible, although perhaps not in the way Spire described, and has lots of potential to be more interesting than a third Link style, especially if they make him a really dark character with a twisted moveset.

I support Kafei, I think he would be really cool. Just as I support a lot of characters that would be awesome to have in the game. But at the end of the day, we only have five (four?) slots, and Skull Kid has more going for him ultimately in the end than Kafei does. Ideally, I would like both in the game, but neither could get in, and if not, we have to choose one, and that one would probably end up being Skull Kid. If he isn't eligible due to the grey area surrounding his AT inclusion in SM4SH, then by all means, bring on Kafei - I would enjoy that very much so - but if not, then I think that Skull Kid takes precedence.

This is basically it. Kafei is not inherently a bad choice, but Skull Kid is a better one. Also, I wouldn't give Zelda two more characters; limiting myself to one, Skull Kid is my choice. (Then Tetra, by the way. Then Kafei.)

 

[Shin F.]

"You people," nice. You should know I despise the idea of Pichu, and think he's an immense waste of a slot, so thanks for lumping me in there.

Secondly, Skull Kid is plenty feasible, although perhaps not in the way Spire described, and has lots of potential to be more interesting than a third Link style, especially if they make him a really dark character with a twisted moveset.

This is basically it. Kafei is not inherently a bad choice, but Skull Kid is a better one. Also, I wouldn't give Zelda two more characters; limiting myself to one, Skull Kid is my choice. (Then Tetra, by the way. Then Kafei.)

This. Every word was stolen from my mouth here. I would even argue that characters like Zant, Midna and Saria are higher on my list than Kafei. It's not that I don't like Kafei, it's just that including him is like adding Admiral Dane. Does anyone here even know who that is? I'd be surprised. I couldn't even remember his name 'till I looked it up.

 

[Solbliminal]

"You people," nice. You should know I despise the idea of Pichu, and think he's an immense waste of a slot, so thanks for lumping me in there.

Secondly, Skull Kid is plenty feasible, although perhaps not in the way Spire described, and has lots of potential to be more interesting than a third Link style, especially if they make him a really dark character with a twisted moveset.



This is basically it. Kafei is not inherently a bad choice, but Skull Kid is a better one. Also, I wouldn't give Zelda two more characters; limiting myself to one, Skull Kid is my choice. (Then Tetra, by the way. Then Kafei.)

Don't assume I lumped everyone in on that statement. The ones I referred to should know who that was aimed at. I do realize there are a decent amount of people who, like you and me, despise Pichu. Stop over reacting.

I'm aware he is doable, but the workload required of the character is still about as tremendous as Issac or Sukapon. Like I said many times before. I chose Kafei because of his clonability being much less of a workload compared to that of Skull Kid. Of course people will still choose Skull Kid, but I'm not one of those people.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Don't assume I lumped everyone in on that statement. The ones I referred to should know who that was aimed at. I do realize there are a decent amount of people who, like you and me, despise Pichu. Stop over reacting.

tldr: Don`t be offended if you arn`t a offender

 

[AnOkayDM]

This. Every word was stolen from my mouth here. I would even argue that characters like Zant, Midna and Saria are higher on my list than Kafei. It's not that I don't like Kafei, it's just that including him is like adding Admiral Dane. Does anyone here even know who that is? I'd be surprised. I couldn't even remember his name 'till I looked it up.

Saria is a little much there. But I see your point. Midna and Zant would probably both be better choices than Kafei, as they're simply more important. Skull Kid still trumps both of them for me though.

Don't assume I lumped everyone in on that statement. The ones I referred to should know who that was aimed at. I do realize there are a decent amount of people who, like you and me, despise Pichu. Stop over reacting.

I'm aware he is doable, but the workload required of the character is still about as tremendous as Issac or Sukapon. Like I said many times before. I chose Kafei because of his clonability being much less of a workload compared to that of Skull Kid. Of course people will still choose Skull Kid, but I'm not one of those people.

Overreacting? I corrected you on one thing I thought you got wrong.

SK's workload would likely not be anywhere close to Isaac's or Sukapon's. Hell, if you want Kafei to be a projectile-heavy character, he'll probably be tougher to do than Skull Kid. Especially if you're serious about including Bombchus; I doubt anything of the sort is even remotely possible with the Clone Engine.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

So you guys I dunno if this has been said before but.....

If playable giga bowser can be ringed out and stuff in PM

Ridley is Definitely possible.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm aware he is doable, but the workload required of the character is still about as tremendous as Issac or Sukapon. Like I said many times before. I chose Kafei because of his clonability being much less of a workload compared to that of Skull Kid. Of course people will still choose Skull Kid, but I'm not one of those people.

It's good of you to think of PMBR here, but think of it this way: PMBR wants every character they add (if they do) to be someone that tons of people will celebrate being included. Mewtwo and Roy were pure hype. They've shown with Mewtwo that they're willing to work hard to make the characters they want be perfect, even if they have to make it from near scratch. I don't think they would settle on a lesser character just to make things easier on themselves. It would undermine all the work they've put into every other aspect of the game.

Cloneability is good, but who the character is and what they represent takes precedent, I think, second only to the meta game. The ideal character, then, is one who has a great deal of meaning and can be cloned from someone else while staying true to who they are. Kafei has the cloneability, but not the meaning. Skull Kid has far more meaning and can be partially cloned. Yes, he would take a lot more work since he'll be far more unique, but anything worth doing is worth doing right.

Saria is a little much there. But I see your point. Midna and Zant would probably both be better choices than Kafei, as they're simply more important. Skull Kid still trumps both of them for me though.

You sure about that? Saria's just as important as Sheik and she could be cloned from Ivysaur with tons of plant-based attacks as the Sage of the Forest.

Also:

Spoiler

 

[AnOkayDM]

So you guys I dunno if this has been said before but.....

If playable giga bowser can be ringed out and stuff in PM

Ridley is Definitely possible.

Ridley should most certainly not be Giga Bowser's size.

You sure about that? Saria's just as important as Sheik and she could be cloned from Ivysaur with tons of plant-based attacks as the Sage of the Forest.

Saria: the world's weirdest Ivysaur clone.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Ridley should most certainly not be Giga Bowser's size.



Saria: the world's weirdest Ivysaur clone.

I'm saying that size wouldn't be a problem, not that he just be that size XD

 

[AnOkayDM]

I'm saying that size wouldn't be a problem, not that he just be that size XD

Ah, fair enough in that case. Yeah, anyone who thinks size is an issue is...silly.

 

[Solbliminal]

Saria is a little much there. But I see your point. Midna and Zant would probably both be better choices than Kafei, as they're simply more important. Skull Kid still trumps both of them for me though.



Overreacting? I corrected you on one thing I thought you got wrong.

SK's workload would likely not be anywhere close to Isaac's or Sukapon's. Hell, if you want Kafei to be a projectile-heavy character, he'll probably be tougher to do than Skull Kid. Especially if you're serious about including Bombchus; I doubt anything of the sort is even remotely possible with the Clone Engine.

Yeah over reacting. There was no point in correcting me when it wasn't aimed towards you.

As far as Bomb-Chu is concerned, I'm guessing you never heard of a Bomb-omb before.

 

[Shin F.]

Saria: the world's weirdest Ivysaur clone.

Yeah, but she'd also be the world's only Ivysaur clone

I'm saying that size wouldn't be a problem, not that he just be that size XD

Well... Giga Bowser is a lot smaller in P:M, so I honestly wouldn't see anything wrong with it. He could be balanced. Still, probably best to make him Bowser-sized.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Yeah over reacting. There was no point in correcting me when it wasn't aimed towards you.

As far as Bomb-Chu is concerned, I'm guessing you never heard of a Bomb-omb before.

There was no way for me to know that. You quoted me and said "you people."

Oh? When did Bob-ombs start going up walls and upside down on ceilings? Besides, as far as I know, you can't make someone spawn an item and edit that independently of editing the item itself. On top of that, even if you made him pull out Bob-ombs, they'd be primed in his hand, not able to be set down and walk.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well I honestly tried my best with Kafei. I give in. Onto other characters...

Spoiler

 

[Shin F.]

Well I honestly tried my best with Kafei. I give in. Onto other characters...

Spoiler

Ummmm. One question: Who is that? I've never played Paper Mario, so a name would be useful so I can look him up on wiki.

 

[Solbliminal]

Ummmm. One question: Who is that? I've never played Paper Mario, so a name would be useful so I can look him up on wiki.

Rawk Hawk

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Rawk Hawk

RAAAAWK THE HAWWWK!

 

[Solbliminal]

RAAAAWK THE HAWWWK!

All the little Rawkster's know what time it is?....ITS TIME TO RAWWWWWWWWWWK

 

[AnOkayDM]

Rawk Hawk has a sticker, so he's eligible. I have to say it'd be weird to see a sub-boss before the main character of the franchise though.

 

[Solbliminal]

Rawk Hawk has a sticker, so he's eligible. I have to say it'd be weird to see a sub-boss before the main character of the franchise though.

Understandable. But Glitz Pit was the best part of Thousand-Year Door.

 

[MLGF]

DISREGARD, I'M UNORGANIZED AS ****

 

[Solbliminal]

Fire Emblem Costumes~

Wrong section to be posting in. You want the Alt Costume Thread.