New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[arcticfox8]

The dash attack doesnt look like that and he is literally doing the final cutter sideways without the slamming animation.

What if he gets a taunt that changes the bomb properties like samus?? Or holding A brings out ice instead. Plus, the bomb is not the difference between the two, its everything else. They already have to give up the fire arrow, so why not a change or an addition that doesnt change his playstyle just what they will do seeing an explosion...

Since you arent the voice stop talking for them then. I want young link back and hate toon link. Yet im the one suggesting this aspect. So please, obviously if someone is bringing up points about a character they may want them to be brought in. So already your statement about the bomb isnt completely valid esp since you dislike him.

Its non-canon and a bad idea. How are you supposed to bomb jump if you get frozen on explosion?

 

[Shin F.]

I'd much prefer if he had a regular bomb that changes into a Deku Nut when wearing the Deku Mask. Ice Arrows, unlike Ice Bombs, actually exist in Zelda so they make sense. Honestly, I think the ice arrows and masks are enough to separate him without changing much of anything else, except the little nuances of how the moves work. Oh, and of course the Bomb Mask would make down-b an instant detonation.

 

[SethTheMage]

Dixie Kong +1
One of my all-time favorite Nintendo characters, so I've wanted her in Smash for a long time. She would be relatively easy to implement into Project M as a Luigified Diddy (just as long as she has enough hair attacks to make her interesting; maybe even use it in her recovery instead of Diddy's jetpack).

Lyn +1
Since she has almost no chance of making it into Smash Wii U/3DS, this would be her time to shine. She has a very unique fighting style that would blend perfectly with the fast-paced gameplay of Project M. Her only drawback is that she would require a ton of work. Though, at least as far as I'm concerned, it would be worth it.

Ridley +1
I don't even need to explain myself here. He's popular, and can easily be resized. Plus, he has an existing model in Brawl, and various PSAs to draw inspiration from.

Ganondorf/Black Shadow +1
I'm upvoting this idea only for the unique Ganondorf idea (never played F-Zero, so Black Shadow holds no value to me). He deserves so much more than being a Captain Falcon clone.

I didn't come here to be a Negative Nancy, so I'm not anti-voting anyone.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Those are not the same Mega Men. Each series' Mega Man is a separate character: X, MegaMan.exe/Rockman.exe, and Megaman Volnutt/Rock Volnutt

whom is this?

 

[MLGF]

I propose the PM:BR puts in BBA Mega Man.
It is his destiny.

 

[Anti Guy]

whom is this?

...you mean "who"?

He's usually called Bad Box Art Mega Man. Not really canon because it's an American thing, but he did sneak his way in to some games recently.

 

[trojanpooh]

It's worth noting that the Mega Man from Smash 4 isn't based on the old Mega Man art, even the real concept art. He's based on the sprite, the artwork Mega Man is taller and doesn't have the same facial structure.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I was thinking about your calling Skapon a "she," so I just searched up the name in Japanese and came across the Japanese Wikipedia entry for JMF. It refers to him as a "he." It's not a primary source, but I'd think since they'd have access to all the sources, if there was anything that referred to him as a "she," it would've reflected on the entry.

I've compiled most of the game's dialogue, but probably only the top three are pertinent.
[collapse= VERY big]

[\collapse]
Although honestly, I started using "she" because I've been thinking about it, and, even if Sukapon is referred to as male at the very end of a modestly selling 20-year-old Japanese-only game in a language where pronoun gender is more of a suggestion, I don't think anyone would mind if we were to pull a Birdo.

 

[Anti Guy]

I've compiled most of the game's dialogue, but probably only the top three are pertinent.
[collapse= VERY big]

[\collapse]
Although honestly, I started using "she" because I've been thinking about it, and, even if Sukapon is referred to as male at the very end of a modestly selling 20-year-old Japanese-only game in a language where pronoun gender is more of a suggestion, I don't think anyone would mind if we were to pull a Birdo.

The dialogue there doesn't help much. When referring to Skapon it always just uses the full name instead of a pronoun.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I also love Jeff as a Snake clone, but that one would be tougher because Jeff doesn't have a really lanky body like Snake. He'd probably be about Ness's height. Still, that might make for an interesting take on the character!

Hey Chzrm3! I thought that you might be tired of paying a dollar for every call you make, so my friend ShadowGanon made this.

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

Its non-canon and a bad idea. How are you supposed to bomb jump if you get frozen on explosion?

Thats the thing, do you remember what happens when you get frozen?? You get shot up into the air. Even higher than a regular explosion at low percents. The knockback for getting frozen could be fixed so it is the same always for even high percent combos.

I literally just dont want a deku nit.

@Hero_42. Why arent you complaining about the deku nut as the bomb replacement and the ice arrows?? By your perspective it isnt young link so it shouldnt be suggested or talked about. Though you have said nothing. Pick your arguments wisely b/c you wont get away being biased with me.

 

[Cubelarooso]

The dialogue there doesn't help much. When referring to Skapon it always just uses the full name instead of a pronoun.

Thanks for translating.
If pronouns aren't used, then the proper one is not established. To use either "he" or "she" is arbitrary, but I think the argument favors the later, the most on-topic reason being that I think identifying Sukapon as female makes it more to endearing to readers (thus increasing its support) and to players (thus increasing its appeal).

 

[TopTierPichu]

it's a robot, it dosnt have a gender

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

it's a robot, it dosnt have a gender

Magnemite would like to disagree.

 

[arcticfox8]

Magnemite would like to disagree.

No it wouldn't.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

No it wouldn't.

I WILL FIND A GENDERED ROBOPOKE!

 

[Cubelarooso]

I WILL FIND A GENDERED ROBOPOKE!

Mech-Zangief.

 

[TopTierPichu]

game over masked man supporters, Lucas' unmaksed man alt costume has Claus beam sword, Maksed Man deconfirmed

 

[Shin F.]

game over masked man supporters, Lucas' unmaksed man alt costume has Claus beam sword, Maksed Man deconfirmed

Not necessarily. PMBR may not have decided on who they want to use yet. They can always remove the costume if they ever decide to add Masked Man.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Plus they're probably going to change the costume anyway--since Lucas dressed up as the Masked Man but never even had access to the sword he used, they'll at least change that when somebody points it out.

So that could leave Masked Man as a playable character open up for later.

 

[trojanpooh]

Plus they're probably going to change the costume anyway--since Lucas dressed up as the Masked Man but never even had access to the sword he used, they'll at least change that when somebody points it out.

So that could leave Masked Man as a playable character open up for later.

Or maybe they don't care because it looks cool?

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Sorry, Toon Link, Link already has your sword and a copy of your clothes. I'm going to have to ask you to leave the premises.

Before someone tells me it's not the same thing, just consider this against outright disqualification. What is actually wrong with Lucas and Claus both battling with swords, may I ask? Or, they could just remove the sword if necessary, and leave the costume, which is completely canon by itself.

 

[Galaga]

I don't know if I've posted this idea before or not, but I figure I'd share it. What if PMBR decided to add the protagonist from the Mother 4 fangame, Travis as a clone engine character?

Since PMBR doesn't want to use official Nintendo characters that aren't referenced in Brawl, why not add an unofficial character? I mean Mother 4 is an unofficial true sequel to the EarthBound/Mother series that its fans created because they know Nintendo won't give it to them, very similar to what the PMBR is trying to accomplish for SSBM. Travis could even use some of Ness'/Lucas' animations, meaning he's easier to create. Opinions on the idea?

 

[Shin F.]

I don't know if I've posted this idea before or not, but I figure I'd share it. What if PMBR decided to add the protagonist from the Mother 4 fangame, Travis as a clone engine character?

Since PMBR doesn't want to use official Nintendo characters that aren't referenced in Brawl, why not add an unofficial character? I mean Mother 4 is an unofficial true sequel to the EarthBound/Mother series that its fans created because they know Nintendo won't give it to them, very similar to what the PMBR is trying to accomplish for SSBM. Travis could even use some of Ness'/Lucas' animations, meaning he's easier to create. Opinions on the idea?

I'm really looking forward to Mother 4, but adding a fan character would make PM seem much more fan-modish, which is something they're trying very hard to avoid. Besides that, I'm pretty sure for Clone Engine they don't want to use any character that wasn't in Brawl, official or no.

If they add a new Mother character, I think it needs to be Ninten, Claus or Jeff. No one else has both the fighting potential and importance to the series. Even then, Jeff is only important enough to be there because of his Assist Trophy status.

Ana, Paula, Poo, and Kuma, all have potential as fighters, but Ness and Lucas already borrow most of their attacks so those two could need to be reworked if they're added. Loid has the same potential as Jeff, but Jeff is already an AT and Loid's really not important enough. Teddy, Duster and Boney also have potential as fighters, but they aren't nearly as vital as even the others. Porky is important to the series, but doesn't have great moveset potential. Giygas is very important, but we can't comprehend his attacks so his moveset potential isn't as great as it could be.

 

[Banjodorf]

Lucas and Masked Man have the same outfit and weapon? Funny. I can play as both Link and Toon Link, as well as variations of both at the same time. (I know they aren't the same person, but why does it honestly matter? It's a cool throwback to a character that doesn't yet exist in P:M.

People are so nitpicky sometimes.

So...how 'bout that Skull Kid hype?

Also, I'll point out, Mario has a Wario recolor. Wario disconfirmed.

But seriously, come on people. Masked Man would likely play totally different from Lucas, and a little homage isn't going to make him a bad or irrelevant choice. Fack.

 

[Solbliminal]

Giygas is very important, but we can't comprehend his attacks so his moveset potential isn't as great as it could be.

It wouldn't be up to the fans to comprehend his movepool. If Nintendo can bull**** a movesets for Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Shiek, and R.O.B., then I'm completely sure that PM:BR is just as capable of BSing a moveset for Giygas. Especially after seeing how they handled modifying the Brawl newcomers movesets and reimagined Mewtwo and Roy.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sorry, Toon Link, Link already has your sword and a copy of your clothes. I'm going to have to ask you to leave the premises.
Before someone tells me it's not the same thing, just consider this against outright disqualification.

There is also the fact that Ness also looks pretty similar to Lucas as well.

In general, I think three Mother characters would be pretty redundant. I think there is plenty of series that could use an additional character over Mother (Mario, DK, Metroid, F-Zero). As well as plenty of Nintendo series out there that clearly deserve playable representation that currently lack it.

Actually, thinking about it, the only other more boring addition than an additional Mother character would be an additional Star Fox character.

Mother is a concluded series. Its never going to receive any more installments (don't bring up fangames that less than 25k people will ever play), and its future at this point is ports. I think for a series that has only three installments, two of which never left outside Japan, it has certainly gotten more than enough content in Smash Bros.

Let some other series shine. Especially considering Sakurai will likely be overlooking them again in Smash 4 (I'm looking at you Metroid, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars).

Considering very avid Mother 3 fans are regulars in this thread, I realize this comment is going to go over well.

 

[splat]

In general, I think three Mother characters would be pretty redundant. I think there is plenty of series that could use an additional character over Mother (Mario, DK, Metroid, F-Zero). As well as plenty of Nintendo series out there that clearly deserve playable representation that currently lack it.

[...]

Considering very avid Mother 3 fans are regulars in this thread, I realize this comment is going to go over well.

I'm not a big Mother fan (I tried Mother 3, but the gameplay just isn't for me), but I think the 'series reps' argument is pretty ****ty.

There's a ton of characters out there that I think would be fun to play as but "shouldn't" make it as their series apparently have enough characters. Personally, I'd much rather play as Lyn, Masked Man or Bandana Dee (I know he's not legible, but as an example) than as Jody Summers or Sami because their series don't get the attention they long for.

Not to mention the hypocrisy - everyone and their mothers were wishing for Mewtwo; a character from the series that had most reps to begin with.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I never played Melee so I have no nostalgic feelings for Mewtwo nor do I care about his inclusion. I`m not mad that he`s in or anything, I think it`s great that all the Mewtwo mains get him back and I personally will attempt to main him and if his playstyle appeals to me then great. I feel that as long as the character has potential he shouldn`t be held back because his series already has 3 characters for it.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Not necessarily. PMBR may not have decided on who they want to use yet. They can always remove the costume if they ever decide to add Masked Man.

don't remove the costume just the sword and return the stick, Lucas actually wears that uniform in-game when he went into thunder tower, just return the stick and we are fine

 

[ChronoBound]

Not to mention the hypocrisy - everyone and their mothers were wishing for Mewtwo; a character from the series that had most reps to begin with.

Pokemon is probably Nintendo's single biggest series in sales next to Mario. Not a good comparison.

As I said before, that comment I made is likely going to go over very well. However, I never care for being popular among the crowd.

Also, the number of reps a series has is not necessarily a bad argument.

For example, I think nearly everyone would be outraged if Star Fox for example had seven characters that were all similar to one another, yet a series like Kirby was stuck with only one character.

Its a bit dishonest to to say that the number of characters a series has shouldn't mean anything.

 

[Anti Guy]

Regarding series rep... think about it this way. You have a handful of die hard Mother fans who really want Masked Man. You have Fire Emblem fans that want characters like Lyn. You have the Zelda fans, especially Majora's Mask ones. These people really, really care about those characters. And these fan bases have different sizes. Having appropriate series representation is not just a numbers game, but also a way of making sure that the diverse fan bases that come together to smash the hell out of each other are appropriately satisfied at the very least. For Advance Wars like me and Chrono, we've been starving so long for a character that people wanting more Zelda and Mother characters seem too greedy in comparison.

 

[Solbliminal]

So...funny story. I walked into a gamestop yesterday and saw a kid wearing a Pichu hat.

 

[splat]

Pokemon is probably Nintendo's single biggest series in sales next to Mario. Not a good comparison.

Why isn't that a good comparison? It makes your argument extremely situational. "Yes, series numbers matter - but not for this series, because it's huge!"

Also, the number of reps a series has is not necessarily a bad argument.

For example, I think nearly everyone would be outraged if Star Fox for example had seven characters that were all similar to one another, yet a series like Kirby was stuck with only one character.

Its a bit dishonest to to say that the number of characters a series has shouldn't mean anything.

Your logical fallacy is: strawman.

I didn't state "the number of characters a series has shouldn't mean anything".

What I've stated is that a character should be picked based on the character itself: what would it bring to the game - instead of being picked for being part of a particular series.To keep with given examples:
I wouldn't mind an extra Star Fox rep, because I'm curious how the PMBR would handle building a Spacie from the ground up (and they have been a pretty defining archetype in the Smash games), but a second one would be a bad choice as it'd just be more of the same.
I think Masked Man is a decent pick because his PSI abilities combined with his physical attributes could make an interesting move set, but Ninten would just be more of the PSI Kid archetype.

 

[Solbliminal]

...For Advance Wars like me and Chrono, we've been starving so long for a character that people wanting more Zelda and Mother characters seem too greedy in comparison.

I honestly feel this way about Sonic and Metal Gear, even if they are guests. They have a decent history with Nintendo. Especially Sonic. The fact Nintendo even allows Sega to make the M&S at the Olympic games a consistent series as well as gain a lot of Sega games as exclusives, shows how buddy buddy the two have become. At the very least, Tails or Eggman should be playable. I know people say guest characters don't deserve more characters because of simply being guests, but being a fan of a series (like what you are saying) I feel Sonic itself is under represented. Not everyone wants to just play as Sonic. Myself included. I couldn't care less who was added, just as long as it isn't Big or Jet. In fact, the consistant cast pretty much got condensed to 11 or so characters. Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Shadow, Vector, Blaze, Cream, Rouge, Silver, and Eggman.

 

[ChronoBound]

What I've stated is that a character should be picked based on the character itself: what would it bring to the game - instead of being picked for being part of a particular series.

That is extremely suggestive. I could argue that Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, or an Advance Wars rep could bring something to the game in addition to representing an important aspect to Nintendo.

I also don't appreciate you calling my argument a fallacy and a strawman.

Just admit that you have want to see the character just because you have your own criteria for what you support (and that you like the character).

Anti-Guy brought up solid points in regards to this as well.

Objectively though, Mother is a much smaller series than series like Metroid and DK, and both of those series have popular, iconic, and characters that could bring something new to the table in terms of movesets.. We also have series like Golden Sun that also rival (and probably exceed) the popularity of Mother like Golden Sun, that have yet to make a playable debut in Smash Bros.

 

[Chzrm3]

Also, the number of reps a series has is not necessarily a bad argument.

I hate to be contradictory, but it's probably much less important than how easy the character would be to create, the ideas/passion that the team has for the character, the niche the character could fill in PM's meta, and the level of hype the character would generate if announced.

So it's kind of the least interesting approach to choosing characters, and you could wind up with a set of characters that would be programming nightmares for the PMBR. "Let's pick Ridley, Dixie, etc etc etc!" and then all in all it's like 3,500+ hours of work for them to pull that off. I dunno if they'd be up for that. : X

Conversely, I don't think a character should ever be discounted because of how many reps their franchise hasif they're relatively feasible to pull off, have interesting game-play implications, and have a contingent of fans who'd be pumped to play as them. And let's be honest, if you are gonna think of it that way, then you probably shouldn't ever have a Fire Emblem character in your top 5, right? I know you really like Lyn, but I don't think you can justify her being a 4th FE character following that logic.

It's much more interesting to think of what Lyn could offer the game and how many people would be happy to see her than to crunch the numbers and say "Well okay, before Lyn comes in we should push DK and Metroid up to 4, because it'd be mathematically inaccurate for DK to have 3 while FE has 4...." It gets into a strange kind of silliness where people are pulling up sales figures and then interpreting them in different ways.

"Sure, DK has generated this much money for Nintendo, but a significant amount of that was the arcade machines - we should only count stuff from the SNES onward! Also, the bongo games shouldn't be counted, because fans didn't like them! So if you look at the SNES stuff, DK 64 (which I'm being very generous in allowing because it had very mixed reception), and the new Donkey Kong Returns games, you can see that it is numerically acceptable for DK to get a third rep in Project M if Fire Emblem gets a fourth."

I dunno. If we were executes at Nintendo that stuff might matter, but I don't think it holds much weight here.

 

[MLGF]

Does representation matter as much for a fan-mod?
I can understand Nintendo, but here I just want to see fun and enjoyable movesets.
Which is why I recommended Black Knight <_<, I mean, I sure as hell wouldn't want him if this was about represenation.

 

[splat]

That is extremely suggestive. I could argue that Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, or an Advance Wars rep could bring something to the game in addition to representing an important aspect to Nintendo.

I think you are really misinterpreting my stance. I feel that we should look at a character on the character's basis first as opposed to what series they're from.
All the character you named I feel are interesting - I just don't like how people exclude other interesting characters because their series have 'enough' reps.

Just admit that you have want to see the character just because you have your own criteria for what you support (and that you like the character).

Anti-Guy brought up solid points in regards to this as well.

More than willing to admit: of course I do. This is what it always boils down to - I'm no different from everyone else in this thread.

Objectively though, Mother is a much smaller series than series like Metroid and DK, and both of those series have popular, iconic, and characters that could bring something new to the table in terms of movesets.. We also have series like Golden Sun that also rival (and probably exceed) the popularity of Mother like Golden Sun, that have yet to make a playable debut in Smash Bros.

Again, popular and iconic characters that'd have a different play style from any of the current characters I can fully get behind: no matter the series.

 

[ChronoBound]

You're a really big fan of Lyn.

I am not a very big fan of Lyn. I just think she is one of the character that has the potential to be among the most well-received.

I think a DK newcomer, Metroid newcomer, Isaac, another new series newcomer (Advance Wars, Sukapon, Saki, Tom Nook) is what I think would be for the best.

I don't mind if one of the slot goes to an "over-repped" series (Pokemon, FE, Mother), however, I do think that in case of DK and Metroid at least, and at the very least Golden Sun (the sales and professional reviews alone speak for this series), need some consideration based on some of the parameters typical in a Smash Bros. game.