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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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Solbliminal

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That is extremely suggestive. I could argue that Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, or an Advance Wars rep could bring something to the game in addition to representing an important aspect to Nintendo.

I also don't appreciate you calling my argument a fallacy and a strawman.

Just admit that you have want to see the character just because you have your own criteria for what you support (and that you like the character).

Anti-Guy brought up solid points in regards to this as well.

Objectively though, Mother is a much smaller series than series like Metroid and DK, and both of those series have popular, iconic, and characters that could bring something new to the table in terms of movesets.. We also have series like Golden Sun that also rival (and probably exceed) the popularity of Mother like Golden Sun, that have yet to make a playable debut in Smash Bros.
To be fair, I find almost all of ChronoBounds arguments pretty accurate, even if it is a scumbag move to throw DeviantArt and Furries into a Sonic argument. I find Earthbound to be finely represented with Ness and Lucas. If anyone else should be added, Giygas or Masked man would be a good stopping point. Punch-Out, Advanced Wars, Golden Sun, Puzzle League, Joy Mech Fight, and many other series have gone on without proper representation for the past installment.

-For Golden Sun, Issac and Felix should be the only representatives the series needs. Fans are willing to settle for Issac. I wouldn't mind having both despite never having played a single Golden Sun game.

-Metroid has only had Samus herself, and I hardly feel that is really fair on the series. Ridley or Dark Samus would be the clear best choices, despite how much I hate both of those characters.

-Advance Wars seems to have two popular faces, and they are Andy and Sami. I can't really offer much opinion here.

-As far as the other installments are concerned, they only need one Rep.
 

ChronoBound

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To be fair, I find almost all of ChronoBounds arguments pretty accurate, even if it is a scumbag move to throw DeviantArt and Furries into a Sonic argument.
The only time I have brought in deviantArt and furries into a Sonic debate is when I desribe the reasons why there are a lot of people who are hostile towards the series, which is not a "scumbag" move since it is something I have seen listed as a reason why people hate the Sonic series and/or or his fanbase.

-For Golden Sun, Issac and Felix should be the only representatives the series needs. Fans are willing to settle for Issac. I wouldn't mind having both despite never having played a single Golden Sun game.
.
Technically, only Isaac qualifies since he is the only Golden Sun character to have made any appearance in Brawl. :p I still find it weird how that series received absolutely no stickers, and its only content was an Assist Trophy, a trophy of said Assist Trophy, and a single remix (likely only happened because Sakuruba also composed a number of other tracks for Brawl).

Also, I am sorry if my personal opinions on Mother (and future potential newcomers for it) offended any Mother fans. I also did not mean to be obnoxious or domineering towards anyone I was responding. Simply liking a character is a valid reason to support a character (for example, I probably the only person in this thread that has brought up Pico, because I am probably the only one that has likes him, or head of him, F-Zero is very niche unfortunately).
 

splat

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TTechnically, only Isaac qualifies since he is the only Golden Sun character to have made any appearance in Brawl. :p I still find it weird how that series received absolutely no stickers, and its only content was an Assist Trophy, a trophy of said Assist Trophy, and a single remix (likely only happened because Sakuruba also composed a number of other tracks for Brawl).
It was you who scouted various Japanese boards to see what characters they like, right? If so, do you also happen to know how the Japanese think of the Golden Sun series?
 

Solbliminal

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The only time I have brought in deviantArt and furries into a Sonic debate is when I desribe the reasons why there are a lot of people who are hostile towards the series, which is not a "scumbag" move since it is something I have seen listed as a reason why people hate the Sonic series and/or or his fanbase.



Technically, only Isaac qualifies since he is the only Golden Sun character to have made any appearance in Brawl. :p I still find it weird how that series received absolutely no stickers, and its only content was an Assist Trophy, a trophy of said Assist Trophy, and a single remix (likely only happened because Sakuruba also composed a number of other tracks for Brawl).
Ridley is too big. <- Scumbag Statements -> Sonic is a furry fanbase. Don't argue something for your own convenience. No fan enjoys being labeled by a negative stereotype. To use labels against a person, no matter how much they are used, is a scumbag move. And to be fair, Mario is a bigger furry than Sonic and you don't see anyone complaining. You already know my stance on this argument and it won't change.

As for Golden Sun, I thought for sure they had a sticker for Felix. That is surprising to me. Well either way I still stand by my statement though. It isn't like what I said isn't true.
 

ChronoBound

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It was you who scouted various Japanese boards to see what characters they like, right? If so, do you also happen to know how the Japanese think of the Golden Sun series?
During pre-Brawl, Isaac was a pretty frequent request in Japan. He was certainly less common than Olimar, but in terms of other potential new series newcomers. He was definitely ahead of the rest of the pack.

The tragic thing is that the passage of time has not been nice to the Golden Sun series (or Isaac) in Japan. The series (and Isaac) have fallen down the memory hole there. Requests for Isaac (or Matthew) were very rare from checks I have done in recent years.

Its worth nothing as well Dark Dawn was absolutely DISDAINED among the Japanese player base, and game bombed very badly in Japan (sold less than 100K). The dismal performance of the latest game in Japan as well as the very strong negative reception by those that did play it makes the outlook for a fourth game look dismal. Even the guys behind the series in recent interviews seem very reluctant to want to do another installment.

Also, my apology and elaboration of my views got buried on the bottom of the previous page, so I will re-post it:

Also, I am sorry if my personal opinions on Mother (and future potential newcomers for it) offended any Mother fans. I did not mean to be obnoxious or domineering towards anyone I was responding. Simply liking a character is a valid reason to support a character (for example, I probably the only person in this thread that has brought up Pico, because I am probably the only one that has likes him, or head of him, F-Zero is very niche unfortunately). If you want the Masked Man in, its cool, its your vote. As with people disagreeing about Pichu or BlackShadow/Ganondorf, people have different parameters or belief systems that cause what they believe to be a good or bad addition.

I feel passionately about this (potential newcomers) in general because I would like to see characters that feel the same way as Sakurai's own newcomer additions and fit the meaning of Smash Bros. (as opposed to the characters I personally like the most or think would be the easiest ones to go with) Even characters like ROB and Wii Fit Trainer have incredible importance to Nintendo (ROB being the trojan horse that saved the North American game industry and a symbol of Nintendo's toy-designer legacy, and Wii Fit Trainer representing a franchise with multiple installments that have sold well over 15 million copies and one of the icons of Nintendo's Wii revolution).

That is why although I personally feel lukewarm about Lyn, I gave her one of my votes. Although she may not be significant to the Japanese side of things, she is to Western fans. I also personally like characters like Toad, Paper Mario, Little Mac, Pico, and K. Rool far more than any Advance Wars character, yet I included an Advance Wars character in my five votes because its a long-running series that is both well-loved and lacking any major content in Smash Bros. and likely won't in Smash 4. For a character fanbase its bad enough their character of inclusion is not included, but for an entire universe to be excluded, in such a gathering of all Nintendo's franchises like Smash Bros.?, I think that is worse, especially at this point. The same goes for Golden Sun (personally, have never played a Golden Sun game and have no exposure to Isaac as a character) except on an even greater scale than Advance Wars. Golden Sun's popularity and accolades rivals that of many series that do have playable characters already in Smash Bros. Again, its a series that will probably be overlooked again in Smash 4 (though not as likely as Advance Wars).

Of my votes, only Ridley and Dixie Kong I like personally as characters However, even there I felt they had a reason to be in Smash Bros. Ridley is basically the most popular, important, and recognizable Metroid character next to Samus, and is arguably the most important Nintendo character from a veteran franchise not yet playable (truly among the few characters that could be labelled a Nintendo All-Star not yet playable).

As for Dixie Kong, both her and K. Rool have impressive credentials. The DKC trilogy is among the most loved of games on the SNES, and have stood the test of time. One has been the main or co-starring protagonist in two out of three of the DKC game, while the latter was the antagonist in all of Rare's DK games (albeit with thinly veiled disguises in subsequent appearances). Between the two, I felt that the hand to go more towards Dixie not just she would be the easier between the two to develop (I personally regard Dixie and K. Rool as equally important to the DK series at this point) but also she has the distinction of being among the few characters that was planned to be in Brawl at some point before being scrapped (Forbidden 7). Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario, all Forbidden 7 characters, have been restored to playable status in Project M. Of the remaining Forbidden 7, we have Toon Zelda (altergo clones aside from Toon Link usually have mixed or negative receptions), Toon Sheik (an original character that does not qualify since she technically made no appearance in Brawl), pra_mai (there is all sorts of debates about what this is, but I think its Plusle & Minun, but others will strongly disagree), and of course Dixie Kong. Of all these four planned newcomers, Dixie Kong is easily the most popular, important, and iconic to her respective series. It would be nice to see the team restore one of Sakurai's planned extra Brawl newcomers (Mewtwo, Roy, and Doc are all veterans) and to add in what is arguably Nintendo's most important heroine not yet playable in the Smash Bros. series.

Although there is plenty of characters I like and love over Lyn, Isaac, and an Advance Wars newcomer, I thought about what characters:
1. Could be very well-received
2. Development ease (though Isaac and Ridley are legitimately difficult ones)
3. Importance to Nintendo as a whole.

Lyn might be the flimsiest on the last point, though, looking at a Western lens in general, we certainly care more about Metroid, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars far more than the Japanese fanbase does, and FE7 is generally still the most popular FE in the West (FE13 might rival it now though, however, lets see how that game will survive the passage of time).

I generally want to see a set of newcomers that would be something Sakurai would pick if he had more Western inclinations (hence looking at Metroid, DK, Golden Sun, Advance Wars), as opposed to characters I just really happen to like.
 

Saito

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I never played Melee so I have no nostalgic feelings for Mewtwo nor do I care about his inclusion. I`m not mad that he`s in or anything, I think it`s great that all the Mewtwo mains get him back and I personally will attempt to main him and if his playstyle appeals to me then great. I feel that as long as the character has potential he shouldn`t be held back because his series already has 3 characters for it.
I never played Melee so I have no nostalgic feelings for Mewtwo nor do I care about his inclusion.
I never played Melee
never played Melee
I keep forgetting that people exist who haven't played all iterations of smash since they first came out.
 

Chzrm3

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I haven't actually ever played Smash Bros. I'm really good at Farmville, though, so I joined these forums to see if I could get people to sign my "Farmviller for Smash 4" petition.
 

Malion

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you know what I just thought of? If ridley is too big we should just have his entry animation with him huge and he eats a poison mushroom!
 

DMurr

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Alright, I've been lurking for a while.. so I'm gonna throw in my two cents:

Up Votes:
+ Black Shadow/Ganondorf - this is a wonderful idea.. Black Shadow is a perfect fit for Ganondorf's current moveset, especially being from the same series as Captain Falcon. F-Zero doesn't necessarily need a second rep, but, in my opinion, Black Shadow is the only one who should be considered for a clone spot. He would fit in fantastically with the mood of Project M, with much less being required for him as a newcomer than others. Ganondorf with a new moveset is something I don't believe will ever happen, as Sakurai has noted Ganondorf as his favorite character in Brawl to play as.. just a thought.
+ Pichu - call me crazy. I know the hate, but since Project M is supposed to be Brawl remade like Melee, and Pichu is arguably the only one left, why shouldn't he be a part of it? I know there's a lot of Pokemon characters, but Pichu is not a new addition to the series. Since the atmosphere of this game is so competitive, I think Pichu is a wonderful addition. As a somewhat joke-ish character, he adds something that isn't really there. Imagine getting spanked by a competitive Pichu.. lol. I know that the PMBR would make his playstyle gimmick work very well as I have complete faith in their creative ability. I think adding Pichu would actually ADD to the legitimacy of Project M.
+ Lyn - as others have stated, I think Lyn would be one of the most well received characters in Project M. This is her time to shine, as I do not believe she will be in Smash Wii U/3DS. I know there are already 3 Fire Emblem characters.. and I'm biased because I love Fire Emblem, but I honestly do believe she fits Project M incredibly well. I know the PMBR would make her look and feel fantastic, as with what I've seen with Roy. The professionalism is amazing. I'm so impressed by Project M.
+ Sami - I would really like to see more series, especially GBA games, get more representation. Also, Snake clone? Yes please. If I'm right, Andy is more of the main character? Sami fits better, in my opinion anymore, and is more feasible as a clone.
+ Tom Nook - Animal Crossing should have gotten a rep in Brawl, in my opinion, and Tom Nook doesn't have much of a chance anymore for Smash Wii U/3DS and there's already a stage for him and everything.

Half Votes:
~ Isaac - tricky for me.. I would like to hold out hope that he's likely for Smash Wii U/3DS. I also don't think he fits well as a clone of anyone. Better suited to be a unique character. But I would put him on my up vote list otherwise because I love the character.
~ Saki - I'm all about these new series reps, but who would he be a clone of? Don't kill yourselves PMBR, unless you're passionate about these characters.
~ Hector - the axe as a clone of Ike? Fantastic.. but Hector? Cool character, but Lyn is so much better of a choice and 5 FE characters is complete overkill. If they decided to make him though, I'd be thrilled.
~ Sukapon - if he is manageable, it would be great, and one of my top choices, but I don't know how easily he would be made.

Down Votes:
- Samurai Goroh - Black Shadow is much more feasible as a clone, and the Ganondorf moveset fits him much better than Samurai Goroh.
- Ridley
- Krystal
- Toon Zelda/Transformation
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Rool
- Any and all Sonic characters/3rd Parties - I like the Sonic characters.. but there's so many good options for Project M from real Nintendo characters, I would hate to see one of the limited spots go to a 3rd party character.

My reasoning for all of these is that I believe that have a great chance of being in Smash Wii U/3DS. Also, I don't think they are nearly as do-able as the characters I chose on.

Also, what would everyone think of Fierce Deity Link as a clone of Ike? =D
So much text... haha
 

Malion

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+ Tom Nook - Animal Crossing should have gotten a rep in Brawl, in my opinion, and Tom Nook doesn't have much of a chance anymore for Smash Wii U/3DS and there's already a stage for him and everything.
- Toon Zelda/Transformation
My reasoning for all of these is that I believe that have a great chance of being in Smash Wii U/3DS. Also, I don't think they are nearly as do-able as the characters I chose on.
you really think toom nook will be easier to do than toon zelda?
 

trojanpooh

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Pokemon is probably Nintendo's single biggest series in sales next to Mario. Not a good comparison.

As I said before, that comment I made is likely going to go over very well. :laugh: However, I never care for being popular among the crowd.

Also, the number of reps a series has is not necessarily a bad argument.

For example, I think nearly everyone would be outraged if Star Fox for example had seven characters that were all similar to one another, yet a series like Kirby was stuck with only one character.

Its a bit dishonest to to say that the number of characters a series has shouldn't mean anything.
The number of characters from a series shouldn't mean anything. This is a fanmod, not an official release. It isn't the PMBRs job to represent Nintendo history, it's to make a badass game that'll be fun to play for years down the line. Having 7 spacies would obviously suck, but having an additional 4 Starfox characters who are all unique would be a-okay if that's what they believed to be best. Saying that "ermergerd, Mather haz 3 meny chrctrs" is a crap argument. You don't want another Ness inspired moveset would be a good argument because it actually takes gameplay into account. Take that spacies example again. What if the PMBR added Lyn, Pico, Andy, and Charles Barkley but they were all spacies. It'd suck just as hard as if they added Peppy, Slippy, Leon, and Krystal but they were spacies. This isn't a Smash 4 speculation thread, people, let's cut it with the series reps crap.
 

AnOkayDM

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The dash attack doesnt look like that and he is literally doing the final cutter sideways without the slamming animation.

What if he gets a taunt that changes the bomb properties like samus?? Or holding A brings out ice instead. Plus, the bomb is not the difference between the two, its everything else. They already have to give up the fire arrow, so why not a change or an addition that doesnt change his playstyle just what they will do seeing an explosion...

Since you arent the voice stop talking for them then. I want young link back and hate toon link. Yet im the one suggesting this aspect. So please, obviously if someone is bringing up points about a character they may want them to be brought in. So already your statement about the bomb isnt completely valid esp since you dislike him.
It's clearly based on the dash attack--which is a forward swipe with the cutter.

Ice would change his playstyle. Changing his bomb to an "ice bomb," whatever the hell that even means, will change his playstyle. You can't change his best tool and not expect his playstyle to change. Maybe giving him a stance change would work, but what would be the point? Samus already has this exact change, and do you know why? Because it's canon. Young Link doesn't need it, especially not for only two moves. Ice arrows replacing fire arrows makes sense, but something made up to replace his bomb doesn't.

Okay, find me other Young Link mains who want this change. A change he doesn't need for an important move to something entirely made up.
Also, I don't dislike him. I mained him in Melee. I just recognize that Toon Link is better than he will ever be and that having three Links on the roster is very excessive. Also, my point is that most Young Link supporters who want him back probably wouldn't welcome this change. So far, you're the exception. Find me people who agree with you.

@Hero_42. Why arent you complaining about the deku nut as the bomb replacement and the ice arrows?? By your perspective it isnt young link so it shouldnt be suggested or talked about. Though you have said nothing. Pick your arguments wisely b/c you wont get away being biased with me.
Replacing the bomb at all is a stupid idea. Period. If he can keep the original and get an extra option, sure, that'd be cool. But stripping him of his main tool is a dumb choice. As for the ice arrows, they could potentially help his game, and they're not made up, so yeah, they have my support.

Stop putting words in my mouth if you want to be taken seriously. My stance isn't that Young Link shouldn't be changed at all. That's idiotic. He wasn't very good, so of course he should be changed. But he should only be improved. His bomb is one of his most important attacks, so changing it will change his playstyle, which entirely defeats the purpose of those who want him back. Giving him a stance change for ice bombs would be okay, I guess, as long as he kept his original bomb, though I don't see the point, especially since such a thing has never existed in the games he represents. I support the Deku nut idea more, as long as his original bomb remains as well--especially since the item in question already exists in Brawl as well as in his games; however, the change still has to be considered carefully for the balance of the game. Giving him unlimited access to such a tool may make him too powerful. I like the idea of ice arrows because they would probably increase the hitstun of his arrows, which would certainly be a positive, considering that's what his projectiles are for.
 

trojanpooh

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This ice bomb conversation is really dumb. Remember how the PMBR removed PK Freeze? That wasn't just cuz, it was because freezing is a terrible mechanic.
 

Solbliminal

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So guys. I just did some research and found a fairly well received Nintendo game that has the main character as a sticker in Brawl. Donbe from Shin Onigashima.



Apparently the game was released on a Famicom Disk System and later re-released on SNES, GBA, and Wii Virtual Console. But sadly the character suffers the same fate as Sukapon. The game he is from was only released in Japan. I feel this character would be interesting and a nice contrast to the ones that are already suggested. Thoughts?
 

trojanpooh

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Yes, but they could do the same with any ice-based attack.

Then what on earth would be the point of them? They aren't canon and they don't freeze, so why make ice bombs? You could give anyone ice attacks, doesn't mean you should.
 

Shin F.

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Then what on earth would be the point of them? They aren't canon and they don't freeze, so why make ice bombs? You could give anyone ice attacks, doesn't mean you should.
Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating Ice Bombs at all. I really don't like the idea. Just playing a bit of devil's advocate for ice attacks in general, since I'm in definitely in favor of Ice Arrows. If he had Ice Bombs as well, it'd be too much. You may as well give him a blue tunic and call him the Ice Climbers' cousin. I want Mask Link, not Ice Link.
 

PsionicSabreur

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There is also the fact that Ness also looks pretty similar to Lucas as well.

In general, I think three Mother characters would be pretty redundant. I think there is plenty of series that could use an additional character over Mother (Mario, DK, Metroid, F-Zero). As well as plenty of Nintendo series out there that clearly deserve playable representation that currently lack it.

Actually, thinking about it, the only other more boring addition than an additional Mother character would be an additional Star Fox character.

Mother is a concluded series. Its never going to receive any more installments (don't bring up fangames that less than 25k people will ever play), and its future at this point is ports. I think for a series that has only three installments, two of which never left outside Japan, it has certainly gotten more than enough content in Smash Bros.

Let some other series shine. Especially considering Sakurai will likely be overlooking them again in Smash 4 (I'm looking at you Metroid, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars).

Considering very avid Mother 3 fans are regulars in this thread, I realize this comment is going to go over well. :laugh:
Okay, well, my turn to respond I guess, my nerd-rage has subsided after reading through the rest of your discussion, and I do believe you have valid arguments, but I have a few more things to say:

Why does your reply even apply to my statement?
You may not be trying to strawman, but whenever you respond to any of my comments it seems like you are simply out of touch with what I'm trying to say:
All I said was Lucas wearing a set of clothes similar to Claus's doesn't mean we should assume he's deconfirmed. I wasn't lobbying, or asserting that I wanted him in even if I had to destroy everything you've ever cared about.

You know when I said that you were taking shots at the Masked Man fans? Allow me to elaborate.
You took my first mention of the Masked Man, singled it out, and made a completely unrelated comment about how you still didn't like him. Then you ended with a veiled "come at me, bro :laugh: ." It might not be outright disrespect, but it certainly doesn't seem like it was meant to be productive.

Secondly, you are misrepresenting the bulk of your opposition in this debate. You seem to have implied that I'm an avid fanboy, and that the fanboys on this forum refuse to believe that Mother is less popular than other Nintendo franchises. The only statement I supported in that argument was "Mother is not unpopular." If I could have been expected to be any more neutral with that sentence, I'd like to know how.
The disrespect comes from misrepresentation of your opposition, not whether you've decided to be be an outright troll. Honestly, it seems as if you are assuming that anybody and everybody who upvoted the Masked Man is nothing more than an "avid Mother 3 fan," and I'm sure that if you actually looked into the reasoning of all of his supporters this would certainly not be the case.

Now, I really like the Mother series, I found all three to be well-written, very enjoyable, and artistically inspiring. I'd love to see the Masked Man make it in for numerous reasons:
-His gameplay and moveset potential
-My opinion that, symbolicallly, it would pit Lucas (and Ness, to a lesser extent) against a worthy antagonist and the very representation of Mother's darker side. Nothing would be quite as intense as a good Claus vs. Lucas battle
-I find Lucas hilariously fun to play as, so a distinct take on this new P:M-original style seems exciting to me, not boring
-Claus would be simple to make, although admittedly he is a bit more difficult than the absolute easiest
-Yes, I do just like the character. So do many others, enough so that I wouldn't feel like I'd be in an extreme minority for being excited at his inclusion
-I could probably keep going, but I think you get the point that, in my personal opinion only, all of this outweighs my concern for series representation. You don't have to doggedly tell me that it matters - I already see that it does - it just factors into my decisions differently.

Maybe that makes me diehard, but I'd appreciate it if you would stop trying to talk with anyone who even expresses vague approval for Claus as if they were some sort of half-brained fanboy that's ignoring all of the facts.
 

Promestein

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Full Votes:

Ridley - A long-requested character for Brawl, Ridley would serve as an excellent addition to Project M who would give the Metroid series (at the time of Brawl's release, one of Nintendo's top four franchises) a much-needed extra character who has a large amount of potential when it comes to moves. Has an announcer call, too. That helps.

Pico - As mentioned on page 111, Pico would serve as an excellent representative for F-Zero. Of the original four pilots, Captain Falcon is playable, Samurai Goroh is an assist trophy, Dr. Stewart was a trophy in both Melee and Brawl, and Pico was a trophy in Brawl. Between Dr. Stewart and Pico, however, the choice would have to be Pico.
Being a hitman with experience in the use of firearms, as evidenced by his Master Cup ending in GX, Pico could utilize an array of firearms in Project M. These would not serve as projectiles, instead having the muzzle flashes serve as the hitboxes. Explosives could also be employed, lending to Pico being a clone of Snake. Pico would, ideally, serve as a highly aggressive fighter, as in F-Zero.

These are my only full votes. I don't feel as if any other characters would really add anything to Project M. Sorry.


Half Votes:

Black Shadow - Were it not for the most common idea for Black Shadow involving the displacement of Ganondorf, I would support Black Shadow 100%. However, alienating many Ganondorf players just for an extra F-Zero rep doesn't seem prudent.

Louie - A character I've never seen seriously suggested, this was an idea I had ages ago. The idea was for him to be a partial clone of Olimar, only instead of plucking Pikmin with B, he would cycle between the Flare Cannon, Shock Therapist, Monster Pump, and Comedy Bomb from the Titan Dweevil. Ideally, each would give his moves different properties, while not changing outright how they function. FC would give more range, ST would cause stun, MP would give a bit more knockback, and CB would cause damage over time. That said, Pikmin does not deserve another representative, I just find the idea too amusing. Perhaps some others will as well.

Isaac - As much as I absolutely loathe everything about Golden Sun, Isaac is a huge fan favorite from a series that doesn't have any characters in Brawl. However, he is already an assist trophy, which could lead to some wonkiness, and while the series has practically died completely in terms of support in Japan, there's still a possibility of him being in SSB4 as playable. I can't throw my full support behind such a character, especially if he'd be as difficult to implement as I've heard. On the plus side, he has an announcer call.


Minus Votes:

Pichu - Why? Why add Diet Pikachu? The three most commonly cited reasons I've seen have been "He was in Melee!", "He was my main!", or "Lol it would be so funny to beat a pro with Pichu! xD". Young Link wasn't brought into Project M, despite playing vastly differently from Link and Toon Link alike. Why would Pichu, a character whose largest difference from Pikachu is the fact that it damages itself, deserve a spot? Why not just incorporate positive attributes from Pichu (assuming you can find any) into Pikachu? I mean, Mario and Dr. Mario got fused for P:M, but Pichu is just too incredible for that? If any Pokemon characters were to be added, I'd understand Darkrai, Plusle & Minun, even Groudon itself, but Pichu?

Lyn - Fire Emblem already has three representatives. Marth was the first lord, Roy was the first lord on a handheld, and Ike was the latest lord at Brawl's release. What significance does Lyn have? She's in the second handheld Fire Emblem game, which happened to be the first released in English. I say, keep her as an assist trophy.

Ninten - First off, let me just say I'm a raging Mother fan. I've cleared Mother twice, Mother 2 thrice, and Mother 3 once. I've debated for hours and hours on countless different forums about how Ninten and Giegue could be or could have been in Brawl.
Ness is essentially an updated version of Ninten. The key (canon) difference in their appearances is that Ninten has his hat turned the other way, and has his shirt tucked into his shorts on that same side. Gameplay-wise, they're rather similar, using bats and primarily defensive PSI. The biggest difference is that Ninten only gets defensive PSI (and is the only one in the series to get ONLY defensive PSI) and can use a slingshot, whereas Ness can use yo-yos, as well as PSI Flash and Rockin. If ANY representative should be added from the first Mother, I feel the one that would allow for the greatest variety and creativity would be Giegue. With PSI Beam and 4th Dimension Slip, he could likely be a clone of Mewtwo.

Masked Man - The main reason for me opposing this character is stated in the OP: He is a walking spoiler. I can speak from experience, Project M convinced me to try out something I've never played before, namely Castlevania. It's been said that Lucas can wear the (Un)Masked Man's outfit in P:M 3.0. That is fine. However, I do not feel that Mother needs another representative, and especially not two from the same game. Besides, Masked Man only has, what, two attacks? PK Thunder and sword attacks, I believe, except for the final battle where he also can use PK Love. Yeah, keep it to Lucas.


And that's pretty much the entire reason I signed up, was to share my thoughts. Sorry to all I offend.
 

Yeerk

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I haven't actually ever played Smash Bros. I'm really good at Farmville, though, so I joined these forums to see if I could get people to sign my "Farmviller for Smash 4" petition.
god damn i'm so gullible

+ Sami - I would really like to see more series, especially GBA games, get more representation. Also, Snake clone? Yes please. If I'm right, Andy is more of the main character? Sami fits better, in my opinion anymore, and is more feasible as a clone.
My first thought was, in what way is Sami a better fit than Andy? Since you haven't played the series, is it just because she could clone Snake?

I've also been thinking lately, WHY should people be expected to vote for characters that are the most likely to make it in? Isn't it the purpose of this thread to feel out what characters interest the community the most? It seems like a lot of people base their votes on what they think would be easier for the PMBR to do, or what the PMBR is most likely to do based on that ease. To me, this thread is about being greedy. Who do you want in? And of course, people will disagree on your choices and you'll argue; that is the other purpose of this thread. But I feel like some people want to dodge around arguments/explanations by using the PMBR as a crutch. "My vote is valid because it makes the character easier for the PMBR!" Who would you want to play as in a SSB game? Pick that character! Only then should you worry about things like the Rating the characters section that's in the OP; it shouldn't be your first thought in imagining your own character addition. Sure, it's probably a nice guideline for the PMBR to follow for themselves, as it makes no sense to consider a sidequest character that would take 1000 hours to create. But for us voters (who's opinions may not ultimately matter anyway), it makes more sense to be greedy. Having said that, I hate the idea of more Pokemon, Starfox, Fire Emblem, Zelda, and Mario characters being added instead of Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Sin & Punishment, Animal Crossing, etc., etc., blah blah. Blah. But again, that's what the discussion section is for.

(sheik93, I'm not trying to call you out with any of this, just using your post as an example. All of my votes were for characters who's series I thought weren't represented well enough: Andy, Ridley, Isaac, Skapon. And I'm certainly not discrediting your reason for having an Advance Wars representative in the game in the first place; I love Andy and Sami. For the record, I voted for Andy and not Sami, but that's just my preference.)
 

Shin F.

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So let me get this straight....
Half votes:
Louie - A character I've never seen seriously suggested, this was an idea I had ages ago.
...
That said, Pikmin does not deserve another representative, I just find the idea too amusing. Perhaps some others will as well.

Minus Votes:
Masked Man - The main reason for me opposing this character is stated in the OP: He is a walking spoiler.
...
However, I do not feel that Mother needs another representative, and especially not two from the same game.

And that's pretty much the entire reason I signed up, was to share my thoughts. Sorry to all I offend.
Now, you're free to vote how you want and I won't try to convince you, but isn't this a little self-contradicting? One series you feel deserves no more reps gets a half-vote, and the other series you feel doesn't deserve another rep gets nothing but down-votes.
 

Solbliminal

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So let me get this straight....

Now, you're free to vote how you want and I won't try to convince you, but isn't this a little self-contradicting? One series you feel deserves no more reps gets a half-vote, and the other series you feel doesn't deserve another rep gets nothing but down-votes.

Let him be. It isn't like Louie is going to get anywhere.
 

TopTierPichu

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The PMBR can do a lot of stuff to Pichu to make him different than Pika, for example Thunder can spike allowing for a ground bounce, forward B is already a lot different than Pika's but it could use a bit more speed,

Also what if we cloned masked man from Pit?
 

Promestein

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[...]isn't this a little self-contradicting? One series you feel deserves no more reps gets a half-vote, and the other series you feel doesn't deserve another rep gets nothing but down-votes.
Completely correct. I suppose you could call me deranged, but the idea of a character who switches elements just interests me. At least, more than a third 'kid who uses PSI'.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh wait...this is serious, isn't it? Eesh.
I wasn't actually suggesting them. I was merely stating which Pokemon I believe to be more deserving of a spot, if any.
 

Shin F.

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Let him be. It isn't like Louie is going to get anywhere.
Eh, alright, I'll let it slide. Edit: (Or I was going to, then I saw the posts after yours...)

Also what if we cloned masked man from Pit?
Fascinating! Tell me more.

Completely correct. I suppose you could call me deranged, but the idea of a character who switches elements just interests me. At least, more than a third 'kid who uses PSI'.
The thing is, saying every other Mother character is just another kid who uses PSI is like saying every Fire Emblem character is just another sword user. The way they use their abilities and techniques are vastly different. Just look at Ness and Lucas. Their PM versions have maybe four attacks in common off the top of my head.

Besides that, this is called the Clone Engine for a reason, in that it creates clones. Saying they'd be too similar isn't a really, truly valid argument against any character, no matter who it is. Even many of Masked Man's detractors believe he would be unique amongst the rest of the cast.

I wasn't actually suggesting them. I was merely stating which Pokemon I believe to be more deserving of a spot, if any.
Pichu is FAR more deserving of a spot, and this is coming from someone who really doesn't care for him AT ALL.
 

Banjodorf

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I am not a very big fan of Lyn. I just think she is one of the character that has the potential to be among the most well-received.

I think a DK newcomer, Metroid newcomer, Isaac, another new series newcomer (Advance Wars, Sukapon, Saki, Tom Nook) is what I think would be for the best.

I don't mind if one of the slot goes to an "over-repped" series (Pokemon, FE, Mother), however, I do think that in case of DK and Metroid at least, and at the very least Golden Sun (the sales and professional reviews alone speak for this series), need some consideration based on some of the parameters typical in a Smash Bros. game.

I'll agree to that. Given that in that scenario, there'd be one slot left, that slot could probaly go to the Mother fanbase or the Zelda fanbase, or somebody else, possibly by another form of vote, to satisfy some of the "Obsessive" fans.

Though in reality, your list is pretty much equal to mine, except mine includes Masked Man and Skull Kid, which on your list only one of those would survive. I sort of excluded the "other other series" rep, just because none of them interest me, and I hardly ever see demand for them. Tom Nook would be cool, albeit hard to work with no doubt.

Obviously I have a DK, Metroid and Isaac on there though. Ultimately it's the PMBR's decision, but hopefully it'll be swayed in a positive direction for all.

Also, lately I've been really excited by the prospect of playing as a legitimate Dixie Kong. Just sayin'. Hair everywhere.
 

TopTierPichu

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Fascinating! Tell me more
well if I understand properly in order to have a character have wings they have to be cloned from one that does. the reason that he can't be done from meta knight is because he dosnt have any articles that masked man needs (despite being a better choice of wings for masked man.)

clearly his height and model would have to be scaled down to be more like Lucas' (after all they are twins). Pits bow can be changed to MM's blaster and be altered into a charged PK Thunder blast. his bow/sword would have to be redone into a PSI beam sword
 

Solbliminal

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My stance on Pichu is just simply that the character itself is just not deserving of a slot. I don't care personally how much better or different he can be made. I don't care about the fact he was in Melee. I just don't like Pichu for Smash when we already have Pikachu. Gardevoir, Scizor, and Blaziken are Pokemon I can easily see deserving slots merely because of their popularity. But as far as Pichu is concerned, we already have Pikachu. Notch-Eared or Pichu Bros. either one of which I don't personally see any more appealing than the next Pichu suggestion. I can get behind Plusle and Minun if it is absolutely necessary to have a Pikachu clone, but I honestly prefer not having another Pokemon to take up an entire row of the roster selection.

And please understand. I don't mind representation, but it becomes a thing when it literally almost takes an entire row of the roster alone.
 

Promestein

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Did you like not play Mother 3 or even look at a picture of him Masked man is NOTHING like the other Mother reps
Did you not play Mother 3? The Masked Man's techniques, if I recall correctly, consist of sword swipes, arm cannon shots, PK Thunder, and PK Love. He also has wings that he uses to fly away a few times. None of these wow me as much as they seem to wow others.

"But you can have them all together! Think of the tools!"
Somebody is getting ready to say that, as they read this, and, well, I can't really argue with that kind of logic, but the same could be said for all proposed characters.

The thing is, saying every other Mother character is just another kid who uses PSI is like saying every Fire Emblem character is just another sword user.
No, Masked Man and Ninten are just other kids who use PSI. I wouldn't be adverse to Giegue, or Loid, or Jeff, or Teddy. In fact, I think there's been a decent amount of support for Jeff, and I believe you mentioned Giegue a dozen or so pages ago. Perhaps it was somebody else?
Fire Emblem ISN'T made up of sword users though. There are axe users, lance users, magic users, and bow users. Just like how Mother has more than just Ninten/Ness/Lucas types.

Pichu is FAR more deserving of a spot, and this is coming from someone who really doesn't care for him AT ALL.
I disagree. From my point of view, Pichu doesn't bring anything to the table aside from being an inferior clone of Pikachu. After seeing what they've done with Wario though, I have nothing but confidence that, if they tried, the PMBR could make Pichu not only decent, but quite a bit different from Pikachu. In that case, though, why not just make an all-new character? Why port a character that will have to be changed so much? If they are going to have to change it so much, then why not just make Plusle & Minun?
(Although I still think 8 Pokemon is too much.)
 

Anti Guy

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god damn i'm so gullible


My first thought was, in what way is Sami a better fit than Andy? Since you haven't played the series, is it just because she could clone Snake?

I've also been thinking lately, WHY should people be expected to vote for characters that are the most likely to make it in? Isn't it the purpose of this thread to feel out what characters interest the community the most? It seems like a lot of people base their votes on what they think would be easier for the PMBR to do, or what the PMBR is most likely to do based on that ease. To me, this thread is about being greedy. Who do you want in? And of course, people will disagree on your choices and you'll argue; that is the other purpose of this thread. But I feel like some people want to dodge around arguments/explanations by using the PMBR as a crutch. "My vote is valid because it makes the character easier for the PMBR!" Who would you want to play as in a SSB game? Pick that character! Only then should you worry about things like the Rating the characters section that's in the OP; it shouldn't be your first thought in imagining your own character addition. Sure, it's probably a nice guideline for the PMBR to follow for themselves, as it makes no sense to consider a sidequest character that would take 1000 hours to create. But for us voters (who's opinions may not ultimately matter anyway), it makes more sense to be greedy. Having said that, I hate the idea of more Pokemon, Starfox, Fire Emblem, Zelda, and Mario characters being added instead of Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Sin & Punishment, Animal Crossing, etc., etc., blah blah. Blah. But again, that's what the discussion section is for.

(sheik93, I'm not trying to call you out with any of this, just using your post as an example. All of my votes were for characters who's series I thought weren't represented well enough: Andy, Ridley, Isaac, Skapon. And I'm certainly not discrediting your reason for having an Advance Wars representative in the game in the first place; I love Andy and Sami. For the record, I voted for Andy and not Sami, but that's just my preference.)

When/if I ever reboot the poll (presumably when a new character is announced), I'll restrict the voting to non-technical reasons for wanting/not wanting a character. Reason being is that those are really completely different criteria and can be handled separately. For now though, what each potential candidate might be technically be capable of doing is still valuable to the discussion though.
 
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