New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Chaos Wolf]

Heads up, I modified my votes, now Skull Kid's been added to Half Vote and Black Shadow/Ganondorf has been dropped down there. In BS/G's Place, I added Ray from Custom Robo I'll add a moveset shortly

 

[AnOkayDM]

Skull Kid is officially not playable in Smash 4! So unless the P:MBR is opposed to giving confirmed Smash 4 ATs playable status in P:M, there's literally nothing keeping him from the Clone Engine. Guys, let's do it!

 

[Pikmin1211]

Someone should start a Skull Kid thread poll. Do it.

 

[GunBlaze]

Skull Kid is officially not playable in Smash 4! So unless the P:MBR is opposed to giving confirmed Smash 4 ATs playable status in P:M, there's literally nothing keeping him from the Clone Engine. Guys, let's do it!

He is still in said game, so that's a no-no.

 

[Pikmin1211]

He is still in said game, so that's a no-no.

Eh. It's not such a big deal.
It's an assist, not a character.

 

[GunBlaze]

Eh. It's not such a big deal.
It's an assist, not a character.

From a legal standpoint, it is.

 

[AnOkayDM]

He is still in said game, so that's a no-no.

Says who?

"Additionally, to avoid appearing as competition to Smash U/3DS sales in Nintendo's eyes, we do not have any plans to try to "back port" any new Smash 4 characters to Project M."

He's not playable, so with the info we have, he's eligible.

 

[StarshipGroove]

Here's what I would do if I was part of the PMBR

"Because of the plentiful character requests, we have decided to include 30 character cameos hidden in the stages of PM 3.0 that will pop up at intervals, when you least expect it. If you see your most wanted character make an appearance on stage, you will know that he/she will not be playable. :^) "

(of course all the cameos would end up being characters nobody really wanted)

 

[batistabus]

Says who?

"Additionally, to avoid appearing as competition to Smash U/3DS sales in Nintendo's eyes, we do not have any plans to try to "back port" any new Smash 4 characters to Project M."

He's not playable, so with the info we have, he's eligible.

Exactly. If it were the other way, assuming stickers were back, nobody would be eligible.

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

I'm just getting tired of my suggestions getting shafted because they are not "infinity popular character from so and so series". Kafei is my favorite Zelda character, honestly. So I'm supposed to vote on who I want right?

Shadow: No he is the bane of Sonic and doesn't deserve to, 3rd party.

Daroach: No, ignored completely, rather have pointless minion character Waddle Dee.

Raiden: Who needs Raiden? NOPE! Liquid Snake ...but 3rd party

Waluigi: No more Mario unless Toad or Paper Mario, but Waluigi sucks anyways.

Kafei: Why would you even suggest this worthless character?

Yeah I feel pretty confident in these votes. I'll toss in a half vote for Sakurai's Cat and Missingno. and call it a night.

Sarcasm aside, there is no point in me having ever voted. No character I like is liked by the general public. Anything I say is considered stupid or pointless.

You are talking to a bunch of old dudes that will harp on you just because your opinion and suggestions differ from theirs. Its quite sickening... I love hearing ideas and peiple elaborating on them and ill put in my 2cents about it and we'll go from there. Nobody will consider it if they never liked the idea at all. They will point out every bad thing about it which contradicts what this clone engine and what the ssb series is about. People want diversity if your character isnt what they want.... Fox falco wolf ganon falcon pikachu pichu marth roy. are all characters that are or have clones. The amount of diversity they want is ridiculous. Wolf and diddy kong share the same down Ariel. Kirby jiggs mario squirtle all share the same down air... Clone engine has to derive from a character. So in order for it to work, the character can't be 100% different. Even so, people are too hateful about suggestions that aren't their own and contradict themselves when downvoting sonic chars but upvoting liquid. Bringing up points about one character but overlook it for another. Its a discussion thread. Talk about it. Why is everyone expressing their hate and not giving good reasons about it, and just bad mouthing when someone talks about said character.

I hate pichu with a passion. People mained him, but its not my fault they chose a purposefully bad character. So i want to know how to buff him without breaking the game. Havnt had an answer yet. Ive been reading and keeping up, but so far everything has its game breaking aspects or doesnt specifically specify the skills needed to use such moveset. In a sense, it just gives a bad player an easy comeback gimick. You will pribably have to change his movesets or give him new stuff... Like electic attacks that land will increase overall damage and knockback, but missed attacks only hurt her. Idk if that is even possible. I can look at both sides of the table. Can we all just actually discuss things and not find stupid reasons someone shouldnt be in.
Falcon only has falcon punch. He also has only one move. He is a badass though... Idk skull kid nor kafei, but i f kafei has ice arrows and shiz, im down with that. Unless he has a stupid deku nut then i go back to neutral.

Im sure we are all humans, so can we please just talk about things and not act out?? Its not working obviously b/c the same characters come up over and over. No lame reasons such as third party crap or over rep. Those reasons arent cutting it b/c everyone keeps bringing up their suggestions.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

You are talking to a bunch of old dudes that will harp on you just because your opinion and suggestions differ from theirs. Its quite sickening... I love hearing ideas and peiple elaborating on them and ill put in my 2cents about it and we'll go from there. Nobody will consider it if they never liked the idea at all. They will point out every bad thing about it which contradicts what this clone engine and what the ssb series is about. People want diversity if your character isnt what they want.... Fox falco wolf ganon falcon pikachu pichu marth roy. are all characters that are or have clones. The amount of diversity they want is ridiculous. Wolf and diddy kong share the same down Ariel. Kirby jiggs mario squirtle all share the same down air... Clone engine has to derive from a character. So in order for it to work, the character can't be 100% different. Even so, people are too hateful about suggestions that aren't their own and contradict themselves when downvoting sonic chars but upvoting liquid. Bringing up points about one character but overlook it for another. Its a discussion thread. Talk about it. Why is everyone expressing their hate and not giving good reasons about it, and just bad mouthing when someone talks about said character.

People aren't logical creatures. Logic is strong, but emotions run stronger. This isn't an attack on anyone-- I'm not above. As people we just naturally want to feel validated in our opinions. Who likes the feeling of being wrong? I can admit that there's a bit of vitriol in this thread at times, but it's nothing that any of us should be getting overly heated about. lol

I hate pichu with a passion. People mained him, but its not my fault they chose a purposefully bad character. So i want to know how to buff him without breaking the game. Havnt had an answer yet. Ive been reading and keeping up, but so far everything has its game breaking aspects or doesnt specifically specify the skills needed to use such moveset. In a sense, it just gives a bad player an easy comeback gimick. You will pribably have to change his movesets or give him new stuff... Like electic attacks that land will increase overall damage and knockback, but missed attacks only hurt her. Idk if that is even possible. I can look at both sides of the table. Can we all just actually discuss things and not find stupid reasons someone shouldnt be in.
Falcon only has falcon punch. He also has only one move. He is a badass though... Idk skull kid nor kafei, but i f kafei has ice arrows and shiz, im down with that. Unless he has a stupid deku nut then i go back to neutral.

I can't speak for everyone, but one of the reasons I'd like to see Pichu return is because it's self-damage mechanic could be retooled to make it unique from all of the other characters we've been suggesting. There have been several great ideas floating around this thread:

Spoiler

One idea was to give Pichu something similar to Lucario's old mechanic. It's electric attacks would grow stronger as it took more damage. However, since Pichu is the game's lightest character, this creates a lot of tension. It becomes a game of sudden death. You can KO foes easily, but you're also risking death yourself.

An idea that I had myself was that Pichu could "electrify" itself for a short period of time by using Thunder or it's charged smash attacks. While 'electrified', it would damage anything it touched and it's electric attacks would be boosted, but Pichu itself takes damage while in this state. If we really wanted to go full ArcSystemsWorks, there could be different levels of charge. Pichu could have three levels of charge, reached by electrifying yourself repeatedly (before your charge runs out). The higher the charge level, the more damage P's electric attacks (and it's very touch) would cause-- but Pichu would accumulate more damage to itself, and faster!

Sorry if that explanation is a wall of text, haha. Two other reasons I think Pichu is a good fit outside of being able to be retooled is because...
A. It was acually playable in a previous game and had people that mained it.
B. P:M is basically the sequel to Melee anyhow. Pichu may as well be brought back since it's the only SSBM fighter with no real representation in the game yet (Doc and Young Link already did the fusion dance with Mario and Tink)
C. There needs to be an "underdog". Everybody's too legit.

You're totally entitled to your opinion of course, so please excuse the wall of text. Hope this clears up some of our stances somewhat.

Im sure we are all humans, so can we please just talk about things and not act out?? Its not working obviously b/c the same characters come up over and over. No lame reasons such as third party crap or over rep. Those reasons arent cutting it b/c everyone keeps bringing up their suggestions.

That's fandom for ya
Me personally, I'm kinda lukewarm on Kafei. I'm sure he'd be a neat character if done right, but I personally feel like there are more important Zelda characters we could be considering. i would take Skull Kid, Tetra, and even Tingle over Kafei-- they played bigger roles in their games, and Tingle is one of the few characters (besides the main trio) to appear in multiple games. Even then, I would prefer Lyn/Dixie/Ridley/Issac/SamuraiGoroh over any of the Zelda choices since their games don't have that many characters.

I can understand ChronoBound's stance of wanting characters from series that don't have a lot of rep, to be honest. I only give Pichu a pass because there were people that mained it in Melee. (and because I think this game could really use an "underdog" character as written earlier.)

 

[Starcutter]

People aren't logical creatures.

Excuse me I'm a people

that's offensive

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Excuse me I'm a people

that's offensive

He and I are too so it`s also an insult to himself.

 

[Starcutter]

He and I are too so it`s also an insult to himself.

yeah im a jokester get it?

 

[Spire]

You do realize that every single one of these characters would use a separate one of the 5 clone engine slots making him the only new character, right? Also you need to provide a reason for all your cons.

Yes, and so? I can vote for who I want.

 

[Malion]

Yes, and so? I can vote for who I want.

You still need to post reasonings for each con. Just giving a heads up on that one.

 

[KingOfNothing]

So, I already used my +1 votes on characters a while back, but with the new Skull Kid info, am I allowed to possibly change my list?
If not
1/2 to Skull Kid

 

[arcticfox8]

Ideas for Yink: Direct port him from Melee except for 2 things. Change his arrows so that they freeze on hit, but beyond that it keeps everything his old fire arrows had. Change his bomb to a deku nut. It does the same thing for his recovery but changes how it hurts enemies. We know how the item works. But give him a taunt for masks. He puts a mask on and it can be broken like Squirtle's shades. Most masks do nothing, but on random draw some masks do cool things. The deku mask increases Deku nut power and decreases weight and fall speed. Giant mask super mushrooms you. So on. Certain masks have negative effects, like the bomb mask. The only way to take off a mask is to put a new mask on or the mask has to be broken. Thoughts?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Ideas for Yink: Direct port him from Melee except for 2 things. Change his arrows so that they freeze on hit, but beyond that it keeps everything his old fire arrows had. Change his bomb to a deku nut. It does the same thing for his recovery but changes how it hurts enemies. We know how the item works. But give him a taunt for masks. He puts a mask on and it can be broken like Squirtle's shades. Most masks do nothing, but on random draw some masks do cool things. The deku mask increases Deku nut power and decreases weight and fall speed. Giant mask super mushrooms you. So on. Certain masks have negative effects, like the bomb mask. The only way to take off a mask is to put a new mask on or the mask has to be broken. Thoughts?

I would like it if the mask has to be beaten off and couldn`t just be switched, then changing masks would always grow tension in the player because he knows that if he gets a bad mask he`ll be stuck with it.

EDIT: Sorry for bad english, I`m foreign to the language.

 

[Shin F.]

I would like it if the mask has to be beaten off and couldn`t just be switched, then changing masks would always grow tension in the player because he knows that if he gets a bad mask he`ll be stuck with it.

EDIT: Sorry for bad english, I`m foreign to the language.

Your english is fine, I couldn't tell you're not a native speaker. I like the idea a lot, though I can't tell how feasible it is. Let's discuss which masks would do what.

Deku Mask - Bombs become Deku Nuts, lowered weight and slower fall.
Zora Mask - No drowning when in water, longer range on the Boomerang because of the fins he gets in MM.
Goron Mask - Heavier falling and weight, close to Bowser. More powerful bombs.
Giant's Mask - Super Mushroom effect.
Bunny Hood - Same as the item, increased running speed.
Blast Mask - Explodes in your face as soon as you put it on, does the same damage to you as a bomb.
Kamaro's Mask - Makes Link stay in place and dance until the mask is broken.
Bremen Mask - Makes Link play his Ocarina and march forward slowly until he hits a ledge.
Great Fairy Mask - Makes him floatier, makes Ice Arrows stronger.
Fierce Deity - ... uh, actually, let's not do this one. Or it could have him shoot beams from his sword when doing normal attacks. Or maybe it does nothing in normal gameplay but makes his Final Smash more powerful.

This is really interesting. It incorporates the masks while not taking up extra slots. It acts very similarly to Samus' beam change. I woder how many they can feasibly do...

 

[Malion]

The masks sound cool in theory but giving him a random element seems a bit annoying.

It'd be better for him to have specific different masks for certain taunt imputs... but only around 3-5 of them.

 

[Shin F.]

The masks sound cool in theory but giving him a random element seems a bit annoying.

It'd be better for him to have specific different masks for certain taunt imputs... but only around 3-5 of them.

There would be up to four, then, in that case, since there are four taunt directions. I'd go with the Deku, Zora, Goron, and Great Fairy/Fierce Deity ones I suggested, if that were the case. Or, if the two side directions had the same effect, then just the Deku, Zora, and Goron ones.

I think this is the most realistic way I've seen of incorporating Mask Link. It doesn't change his model or animations, just adds a mask and changes a couple of stats, so there's no need to have him take multiple slots.

I think I'd like to add a half vote for Mask Link, if he's done this way.

 

[Malion]

Well it might be possible to, like squirtle, have a mask unlocked by taunting then imputing a series of directions... not sure if multiple options are possible but it could be cool.

(Even though it's impossible, a mask of truth that detects exploding capsules/barrels would be cool)

 

[Shin F.]

Well it might be possible to, like squirtle, have a mask unlocked by taunting then imputing a series of directions... not sure if multiple options are possible but it could be cool.

(Even though it's impossible, a mask of truth that detects exploding capsules/barrels would be cool)

I don't see why multiple options wouldn't be possible. They've done things more complex than that before.

As for the Mask of Truth thing - sounds cool, even if it is highly improbable. I say improbable and not impossible because PMBR are freaking wizards when it comes to making things like that work.

 

[Anti Guy]

So, I already used my +1 votes on characters a while back, but with the new Skull Kid info, am I allowed to possibly change my list?
If not
1/2 to Skull Kid

You can. Just let me know the changes.

 

[arcticfox8]

I think a random mask element would work best so you would be more wary about putting a mask on because you could draw a Bomb mask. Either way I think Yink should keep most everything else from Melee. Link and Tink took his moves for a reason. His bad stuff can stay too since he'd be getting new arrows and bombs (maybe, unless the nuts are exclusive to Deku mask) + masks to expand his options.

 

[Shin F.]

I think a random mask element would work best so you would be more wary about putting a mask on because you could draw a Bomb mask. Either way I think Yink should keep most everything else from Melee. Link and Tink took his moves for a reason. His bad stuff can stay too since he'd be getting new arrows and bombs (maybe, unless the nuts are exclusive to Deku mask) + masks to expand his options.

One of the problems with that is that the main features of Project M are precision and skill. Adding a random chance of different masks adds an element of luck akin to items, which is something P:M generally avoids.

 

[arcticfox8]

One of the problems with that is that the main features of Project M are precision and skill. Adding a random chance of different masks adds an element of luck akin to items, which is something P:M generally avoids.

What are Turnips.

 

[Shin F.]

What are Turnips.

Turnips are okay because Melee.
Also, they don't have as great an impact as the masks would...

 

[Malion]

What are Turnips.

turnips don't make you walk off the side of the stage or make you explode. slightly perky randomness and full on danger city are a little different.
Judgement would have been a better argument because it can be a lot of different effects. but even a 1 for judgement isn't as bad as having a bomb explode on your face without warning. if you had to trigger it with b it would be cool though.

 

[Shin F.]

turnips don't make you walk off the side of the stage or make you explode. slightly perky randomness and full on danger city are a little different.
Judgement would have been a better argument because it can be a lot of different effects. but even a 1 for judgement isn't as bad as having a bomb explode on your face without warning. if you had to trigger it with b it would be cool though.

Triggering it with down b would be interesting. That would make it useful for a quicker bomb recovery if used right, but with the added risk that it can explode on you at inopportune moments if hit hard enough and keeps you from using normal bombs, since down b would be the trigger.

 

[arcticfox8]

turnips don't make you walk off the side of the stage or make you explode. slightly perky randomness and full on danger city are a little different.
Judgement would have been a better argument because it can be a lot of different effects. but even a 1 for judgement isn't as bad as having a bomb explode on your face without warning. if you had to trigger it with b it would be cool though.

I never said anything besides Bomb mask. The other negative ones are silly. It could have a timer, or is activated when you press a button. I just think there are so many masks that limiting it to 3 would be a waste.

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

Look at all this... Regular conversations. Wow. Please no deku nut. Just give him an ice bomb. Keep his specials chilly lol. At higher damage it would help the combo game if they freeze but dont shoot to the sky. They will also have breaking out options if they are fast enough.. Since it is also a bomb it wont freeze on a shield and can bounce around or be placed for a future explosion. Give it some thought.... Esp during a match.

@Orangesodaguy. That is what i was talking about. It gives an easy comeback gimmick... Thats why i suggested my thing to maybe help out, but i dont really see a way to give him good properties that dont destroy the fabric of smash. PM is for balancing though. Suggesting an underdog for a reason is actually a con. Just b/c he was in melee doesnt mean he needs to be a character. Atl costume like doc Mario(if they can give self damage properties to only those outfits) then he can be in. But prob wont happen b/c height. Lucario was a had character but the brawl mechanic helped. But he wasnt complete crap like pichu. With the ability to harm themsepves. Players hsve they option to zone a person out and just kill them with a ridiculous attack @50%... Pikachu can already play keep away. A faster pika is overkill.

 

[Spire]

This is a very interesting take on Mask Link. Instead of transforming, he gains stat boosts and special effects. This would make him a very unique character and while Smash is already over-saturated with Links (3 really is pushing it when numerous other characters deserve some limelight), it would definitely be a unique attribute. Down-B instant explode Blast Mask is brilliant. Considering the Goron and Zora masks didn't transform Link in OoT, it would not be farfetched to see their smaller provisions sans transformation.

Neutral B = Ice Arrows (mini icebergs on contact with water?)
Down B = Deku Nut

Deku Mask — 1/2 weight, Enhanced Deku Nuts
Goron Mask — 2x weight, 2/3 speed, 2x power
Zora Mask — Enhanced Boomerang
Giant's Mask — Super Mushroom
Blast Mask — Down-B auto-detonates, no Deku Nuts
Bunny Hood — Exactly like the item
Garo's Mask — Invisible when dodging
Fierce Deity Mask — Blade Beams

 

[Shin F.]

Look at all this... Regular conversations. Wow.

Amazing, isn't it?

Please no deku nut. Just give him an ice bomb. Keep his specials chilly lol. At higher damage it would help the combo game if they freeze but dont shoot to the sky. They will also have breaking out options if they are fast enough.. Since it is also a bomb it wont freeze on a shield and can bounce around or be placed for a future explosion. Give it some thought.... Esp during a match.

If they do give him a Deku Nut, I think it would best serve as being exclusive to the Deku Mask, replacing the bomb. Since they're both items (I think? Aren't bombs stored separately somewhere?), it shouldn't be hard to have a different item come out depending on whether he has the Deku Mask equipped. It doesn't matter to me either way, though.

The Ice Bomb sounds very interesting. Is that even a real item? It doesn't particularly matter, It's just familiar but I can't think of where from. I may be thinking of Samus' Ice Missile.

This is a very interesting take on Mask Link. Instead of transforming, he gains stat boosts and special effects. This would make him a very unique character and while Smash is already over-saturated with Links (3 really is pushing it when numerous other characters deserve some limelight), it would definitely be a unique attribute. Down-B instant explode Blast Mask is brilliant. Considering the Goron and Zora masks didn't transform Link in OoT, it would not be farfetched to see their smaller provisions sans transformation.

Neutral B = Ice Arrows (mini icebergs on contact with water?)
Down B = Deku Nut

Deku Mask — 1/2 weight, Enhanced Deku Nuts
Goron Mask — 2x weight, 2/3 speed, 2x power
Zora Mask — Enhanced Boomerang
Giant's Mask — Super Mushroom
Blast Mask — Down-B auto-detonates, no Deku Nuts
Bunny Hood — Exactly like the item
Garo's Mask — Invisible when dodging
Fierce Deity Mask — Blade Beams

That's a great idea with the Garo's Mask, there.

Can I move Mask Link to a +1 and bring Black Shadow/Ganondorf down to a half vote? If so, I'd like to do that.

 

[True Fool]

Paratrooper was my favorite character in Mario Tennis as well.

As for Waluigi, A LOT of people don't want to see him added in for either Smash 4 or Project M. On the negative list, I think he may be the one Nintendo character with the single most negative votes.

If we were to get a Mario newcomer, I much rather see Toad. Its still a shame that he has yet to be in Smash Bros. despite all the prominence he has in the mainline Mario titles. I don't think the little guy gets enough love in general.

People complain about too many sword-users, but personally I think we have plenty of short and stumpy-punch and kick type characters. I would vastly prefer Waluigi over Toad for that very reason. Sure, Toad would have his own spin on it, but I'm just not interested in what he would bring to the game.

Downvote for Toad, reasons above.

 

[Spire]

Toad is O.G. How is he still Peach's counter? He's playable in just about every Mario spinoff and is featured alongside Mario, Luigi, and Peach in Super Mario 3D World. What gives Sakurai?

 

[Shin F.]

Toad is O.G. How is he still Peach's counter? He's playable in just about every Mario spinoff and is featured alongside Mario, Luigi, and Peach in Super Mario 3D World. What gives Sakurai?

Toad likes where he is right now. He just comes out when Peach needs him to pwn someone with spores... the rest of the time, he spends his time up her dress. I repeat: He gets to spend all day doing who knows what under Peach's dress. Let that sink for a second, and tell me you'd want things to change if you were in his 'position'. XD

 

[Yeerk]

Toad likes where he is right now. He just comes out when Peach needs him to pwn someone with spores... the rest of the time, he spends his time up her dress. I repeat: He gets to spend all day doing who knows what under Peach's dress. Let that sink for a second, and tell me you'd want things to change if you were in his 'position'. XD

She farts fire all the time, I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Shin F.]

She farts fire all the time, I'm not so sure about that.

In Melee and Project M, yes... but in Brawl, and presumably SSB4, what happens? Hearts, exploding everywhere.