New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

If we were to get a Mario newcomer, I much rather see Toad. Its still a shame that he has yet to be in Smash Bros. despite all the prominence he has in the mainline Mario titles. I don't think the little guy gets enough love in general.

I'm just incapable of understanding the want for Toad, no matter how hard I try.
It confuses me very much.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Sorry to post so much but I just want to say the attacks seemed to have calmed down for a long while--I've been on since like 4 or 5 o clock. So maybe Alfonzo Bagpipez can work on posting that edited Hector moveset.

...and maybe Anti Guy can update the OP since nobody's voted in a while. Please??? I found my votes and want to update them with the new characters.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Paratrooper was my favorite character in Mario Tennis as well.

As for Waluigi, A LOT of people don't want to see him added in for either Smash 4 or Project M. On the negative list, I think he may be the one Nintendo character with the single most negative votes.

If we were to get a Mario newcomer, I much rather see Toad. Its still a shame that he has yet to be in Smash Bros. despite all the prominence he has in the mainline Mario titles. I don't think the little guy gets enough love in general.

Yay somebody likes Toad! As for Waluigi I can see where everyone else is coming from but when the clone engine is released to the public I know I'm going to take a shot with him with a group of people in a forum somewhere. Same with Toad if he ends up confirmed as remaining a B move for Peach in Smash 4.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm just incapable of understanding the want for Toad, no matter how hard I try.
It confuses me very much.

I think the divisions regarding potential Mario character is why I think a DK newcomer would be better. There is basically only two choices for a DK character, and DK in general could definitely use an additional character (same with Metroid).

coughAndy??coughAdvanceWars??cough

I really think Isaac and an Advance Wars rep should be added as well.

 

[Solbliminal]

You know, Luigi seems to lead a jelous life in spite of his brother. It nearly terrifies me to think of what poor Waluigi writes in his diary. I imagine that his mother was the type of person to scold him for not being like his brother so as a child he was locked in a closet and starved to death, while Wario was the one who was mama's spoiled fat gluttonous pig.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Sorry to post so much but I just want to say the attacks seemed to have calmed down for a long while--I've been on since like 4 or 5 o clock. So maybe Alfonzo Bagpipez can work on posting that edited Hector moveset.

I dun did it, because you asked for it (not really).
No real changes, I just made it NOT ugly and added the highly sought after GIFs (which SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE).

[collapse=GUH]

NORMALS:

JAB COMBO:
Jab 1: Left Hook Punch (does 2-3% damage, poor range as far as jabs go)
Jab 2: Reverse Roundhouse Kick (does 3%)
Immediate Follow-up with Horizontal Ax Slash
(does 8%, has light-armor frames, has good knockback, can kill mid-weights at >120% if sweet spotted)


*A fairly situational jab sequence, similar to Lucas' in execution (two inputs, three attacks).


DASH ATTACK:
An upwards Ax sweep similar to Wolf's DA in function. (does 7-11%, as great range for a dash attack, has a lot of end lag, easily punished.)


TILTS:
S-Tilt: Stabby-Thrust (like Roy's, but with a two-handed ax. does 4-7%. can be angled, a keep-away side tilt)

U-Tilt: Ganondorf's vBrawl U-Smash, with less start and end lag (does 4-6%, allows for juggles and follow-ups)

D-Tilt: Hilt Poke (does 4%, has almost no knockback on-stage with hella hitstun, has meteor properties off-stage)


SMASHES:
F-Smash: Similar to Dedede's side smash, animation wise. Has 2 optional attacks (by pressing A, he twirls around and does the same attack again, moving slighty forward each time.)

(Super-Armor on first hit. 1st hit: 10-22%, depending on charge. 2nd hit: 10-15%. 3rd: hit: 10-15%. Each attack has a slight quake effect, similar to Wario's D-Smash. MAJOR shield damage. MAJOR end lag. Impossible for these attacks to link without inhuman SDI. 1st and 3rd attacks similar to Ike's F-Smash in knockback, 2nd is much weaker.)

*One of his PM "gimmicks"


U-Smash: Shoryuken with a BIG *** AX (Super-Armor frames, does 15-25%, depending on charge. More vertical knockback than Ike's U-Smash, bothersome start and end lag.)

D-Smash: Spins 3 times with his Ax, similar to Roy's and Dedede's animation wise (Light-Armor frames, does 8-17%, depending on charge and if sweet/sour spotted, great horizontal knockback with a lasting hitbox all the way through on the ax and his body)


AERIALS:
Nair: 2 forward kicks, each similar to Mario's Nair in knockback (1st and 2nd hit: 4% each, can kill at high percents)

Uair: I dunno how to describe this. Imagine Wario doing his U-Tilt in the air if he were holding an ax.....yeah..got nothing else, yet. (very quick aerial, does 6%, juggles though)

Bair: A downward ax swing behind Hector. (does 7-12%, if sweet/sour spotted. spike properties if sweet spotted, moderate start up lag.)

Dair: Ike's Nair, without as much horizontal coverage. (does 7-12%, sends opponent diagonnally upwards, depending on what point of the swing connects. moderate kill power. no meteor properties)

Fair: Does 3 frontflips while holding out his ax. Think like Metaknight's Nair, but lasting much longer with INSANE range. If holding A, Hector will gain forward momentum while falling, during the attack animation. Is Jump or UpB cancellable, if double jump isn't used. (3 hits, each doing 7-10%. Excellent knockback on each hit, so they can't really flow into each other, while they all have potent killing potential. MAJOR end lag [a bit longer than Link's Dair] if not L=cancelled)

*his OTHER main gimmick



GRAB GAME:
Pummel: A headbutt, like Ike's, does more damage (dunno the numbers)

F-Throw: Hector Knee (does 4%, medium knockback, can chain throw at lower percents)

B-Throw: Backward Ax Sweep (does 6%, high knockback for a throw)

U-Throw: Upward Ax Sweep (does 7%, latches opponent onto the ax and flings them, can reliably kill off the top at higher percents)

D-Throw: Stomp (does 4%, similar to Snake's D-throw, an excellent tech chase throw)



SPECIALS: (copy and pasted from previous post with minor changes)

Up B: Standard attack animation (whatever it's called)

I couldn't find the animation I wanted, but he jumps WAY higher. It wouldn't allow for a lot of lateral recovery, but it could be used as an aerial finisher, with a hitbox all the way through (sweet spot on the axe, sour spot on his body).

*Light Armor frames, does 8-10%, has meteor properties on the downward swing.


Side B: Hand-Axe (using the Boomerang as a base)

Functioning almost exactly like the boomerang, traveling twice as fast. Maybe doing more damage with less hit-stun as a trade-off.

*does 6%, hitstun similar to Falco lasers


Neutral B: Warrior Critical Spin Attack

Chargable. Once fully charged, allows Hector to move across the stage while spinning, similar to Toon Link, but a LOT slower. Press B again for the optional second hit. Instant fast fall if used in the air.

*spin sequence does 10% all the way through, has less range than Link's spin attack, always sends opponents up diagonally.

*optional hit does 8%, has meteor properties

While I know Hector doesn't do this in-game, just look at all of the FE and Mother characters. A lot of them take attacks from their allies or just pull some crap out of nowhere (Eruption? Seriously, what is that?).


Down B: Parry

Similar to Counter in function, with twice the number of active frames Marth's Counter has. The counter-attack does 4% and has set knockback, sending the opponent a considerably far distance. A "get out mah face" move, primarily.


FINAL SMASH: Armads Critical (just for lols)

Stuns all players on stage, INSTAKILL on axe hit, causes a tremor effect that does 30% to any characters standing on the stage that aren't hit by the axe.


TAUNTS:
****, I don't know.

[/collapse]

I like a lot of your move ideas, but the damage numbers sometimes raise an eyebrow, since I sometimes find them to be needlessly poor at racking up damage (speaking from my Roy experience, here) or to have other points of confusion. For example, the smash attacks; are those low damage numbers because of a sourspot? If not, 10% on a non-linkable fsmash hit aint gunna cut it. In general, I'd say including specific numbers can just be a wasted effort, since it's so hard to get them right off of pure theory and it takes focus away from the strategic/aesthetic value of the moveset.

Yeah, most of the low numbers are based on sour spots (for smashes it's the damage for sour spotting + no charge). The percentages are kind of pointless, but I just wanted to show what I thought would be okay damage numbers. (I am certainly no expert, though). Late reply, because it wasn't relevant until I made it relevant.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Oh and...

Can Mewtwo and Roy be used as bases for other clone engine characters?

EDIT: that Hector looks cash, son. Way better to look at :D

 

[Inawordyes]

So, does Skull Kid being confirmed as an assist trophy for SM4SH basically put his chances to crap for being a Clone Engine character?

 

[Shin F.]

So, does Skull Kid being confirmed as an assist trophy for SM4SH basically put his chances to crap for being a Clone Engine character?

Actually, I think it increases his chances, since he officially doesn't break the 'no back-porting characters' rule :D

For those who don't know what we're talking about, today's pic of the day:

Spoiler

 

[Generically Epic]

I dun did it, because you asked for it (not really).
No real changes, I just made it NOT ugly and added the highly sought after GIFs (which SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE).


Yeah, most of the low numbers are based on sour spots (for smashes it's the damage for sour spotting + no charge). The percentages are kind of pointless, but I just wanted to show what I thought would be okay damage numbers. (I am certainly no expert, though). Late reply, because it wasn't relevant until I made it relevant.

I like it, but it needs more magic, bro.

 

[Inawordyes]

Actually, I think it increases his chances, since he officially doesn't break the 'no back-porting characters' rule :D

For those who don't know what we're talking about, today's pic of the day:

Spoiler

I would hope then that Skull Kid is the first character, post-3.0, to be developed by the PMBR, alongside Toad (plz), as both have been officially and basically deconfirmed, respectively, and both have massive potential as well as popularity and more relevance to their series than most of the other [eligible] Zelda and Mario characters.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

So, does Skull Kid being confirmed as an assist trophy for SM4SH basically put his chances to crap for being a Clone Engine character?

He looks SO COOL, it's a damn shame he's just an assist trophy though. I think that means he's actually the first assist trophy revealed though.

Still, the Back Room could clarify on whether he's disqualified or not, since he won't be a playable character in Smash 4.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I like it, but it needs more magic, bro.

Spoiler

 

[Shin F.]

He looks SO COOL, it's a damn shame he's just an assist trophy though. I think that means he's actually the first assist trophy revealed though.

Still, the Back Room could clarify on whether he's disqualified or not, since he won't be a playable character in Smash 4.

Skull Kid's first official appearance in HD! It's pretty freaking awesome.

Actually, come to think of it, if Skull Kid is getting recognition as an Assist Trophy, I wonder what that means for Vaati in SM4SH? Vaati's definitely more important to the series, so I wonder if he has a chance of actually being playable in Smash 4.

 

[Zelow]

1-VOTE
-Issac (Golden sun is a game loved by very many, Moveset could be a lot of fun with a sword/magic set)
-Lyn (Female diversity!! lol no really the game needs some really neat sword fighters and her being female could open the option for more speed over power kinda build)
-Andy (Would love to see some advance wars represented. Plus some pretty cool abilities could be added with tanks and missiles)

1/2-Vote
-Paper Mario (It would be a lot of fun to see some of Mario and game and watches play-styles fuse here)
-Toon Zelda (I am sorry to say this is just the Zelda fan in me coming out for that reason alone it is only a 1/2 vote for me)
-Toad (Could be really good with some of his mushroom powers. I would really like to see some kind of poison attack for a poke and run strategy from him)

DOWN-VOTE:
-The rest of the options (I am sorry to say, but at least for me personally I do not find any of these characters to be real appealing aside from the ones mentioned above)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Would the Back Room be seen as competing with Smash 4 if they made the cool looking assist trophies from there playable in Project M? I hope not, as I still have hopes that Skull Kid could be here.

 

[Shin F.]

Would the Back Room be seen as competing with Smash 4 if they made the cool looking assist trophies from there playable in Project M? I hope not, as I still have hopes that Skull Kid could be here.

Errrrrrrrrrrrrr

Damn it, that's a valid point. You just crushed my Skull Kid P:M possibility hype.

 

[Generically Epic]

Would the Back Room be seen as competing with Smash 4 if they made the cool looking assist trophies from there playable in Project M? I hope not, as I still have hopes that Skull Kid could be here.

...why would anyone even remotely consider using trophies...

 

[trojanpooh]

DOWN-VOTE:
-The rest of the options (I am sorry to say, but at least for me personally I do not find any of these characters to be real appealing aside from the ones mentioned above)

If you ask me this kind of crap shouldn't be allowed. Down votes are bad enough as is, but downvoting literally everyone you don't actively want is a real douche move.

 

[Generically Epic]

Spoiler

fire emblem's magic is greatly unrepresented in this game. I want to see some healing spells, or some fire attacks, some evil far attacking dark spells, or something.

 

[Generically Epic]

If you ask me this kind of crap shouldn't be allowed. Down votes are bad enough as is, but downvoting literally everyone you don't actively want is a real douche move.

he has to give a reason for each one, his vote is void until then.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrr

Damn it, that's a valid point. You just crushed my Skull Kid P:M possibility hype.

Sorry, I was trying to be realistic

In any case this is a really big question and I hope we get an answer. When do you think the PMBR will do an AMA again? Isn't it done over on the Subreddit or something? I ask cuz I don't go to Reddit very often and don't want to miss the opportunity to ask.

 

[trojanpooh]

he has to give a reason for each one, his vote is void until then.

Reason or no, I still think it's bull to downvote everyone aside from your own votes. There's supposed to be 4 tiers of "voting":
+1 for your 5 personal picks. These are the 5 new characters you'd pick if you were in charge.
+0.5 for runners ups. There are other characters you'd like to see.
+0 for anyone who you don't care about.
-1 for anyone you find actively offensive. These characters would somehow detract from your enjoyment of the game if they made it in.

 

[Shin F.]

If you ask me this kind of crap shouldn't be allowed. Down votes are bad enough as is, but downvoting literally everyone you don't actively want is a real douche move.

Honestly, I agree. I can understand down-voting someone you're actively against, but voting them down just because they don't appeal to you is, I couldn't have said it better, a real douche move. I thought the point of downvotes was only for characters you're absolutely and actively against being in the game, not just anyone you don't care for.

+1 for your 5 personal picks. These are the 5 new characters you'd pick if you were in charge.
+0.5 for runners ups. There are other characters you'd like to see.
+0 for anyone who you don't care about.

-1 for anyone you find actively offensive. These characters would somehow detract from your enjoyment of the game if they made it in.

Ninja'd

Sorry, I was trying to be realistic

In any case this is a really big question and I hope we get an answer. When do you think the PMBR will do an AMA again? Isn't it done over on the Subreddit or something? I ask cuz I don't go to Reddit very often and don't want to miss the opportunity to ask.

Meh, it comes and goes anyway.

Reddit sometimes scares me, so I have no idea about that...

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

fire emblem's magic is greatly unrepresented in this game. I want to see some healing spells, or some fire attacks, some evil far attacking dark spells, or something.

I'm sorry to break it to you...but Hector doesn't use magic.
Shocking, I know.
Speaking of that, having shock effects and quake effects on some of his attacks may be a good idea, considering his in-game affinity is Thunder.
Hmmmmm, yes...I would like that A LOT.

 

[Chzrm3]

Skull Kid looks so cool!!! :D

I see a few people concerned about the PMBR using a character that's an AT in Smash 4, but I think the Project M team would be all about that. AT's are probably the safest choices, since you definitively know they won't be playable.

Now this does interesting things if there's another Zelda rep - we dunno if Tetra is going to be playable in Smash 4, but we know for sure that Skull Kid won't. I think he might legitimately be the best choice now, if they want to make either another mage or another Zelda character. And if they want both, MMMM SON! He's appealing. >:D

Regardless, I think it's so cool he's an AT. I'm hoping he has his adorable laugh and summons the moon to kill people. Also, he should be an AT that doesn't care about who summoned him - if the person he summoned gets hit with a moon, they should die too.

But anyway, that's Smash 4 stuff. Man, as bizarre as this sounds, I kinda hope Dixie or K. Rool get confirmed as an AT next so that the PMBR can work on them. XD

 

[ChronoBound]

But anyway, that's Smash 4 stuff. Man, as bizarre as this sounds, I kinda hope Dixie or K. Rool get confirmed as an AT next so that the PMBR can work on them. XD

I am pretty sure the team has said they personally don't care who ends up in Smash 4 and they are not concerned over "who is likely".

 

[Chzrm3]

I am pretty sure the team has said they personally don't care who ends up in Smash 4 and they are not concerned over "who is likely".

Didn't they specifically say that they'll never do Animal Crosser because he's in Smash 4, since they don't want to aggro Nintendo? : >

 

[Anti Guy]

As for Waluigi, A LOT of people don't want to see him added in for either Smash 4 or Project M. On the negative list, I think he may be the one Nintendo character with the single most negative votes.

That's actually Pichu right now. As of now, Pichu is the worst ranked character after the Sonic ones.

 

[ChronoBound]

That's actually Pichu right now. As of now, Pichu is the worst ranked character after the Sonic ones.

I think Waluigi and Krystal are next after Pichu though, right? Waluigi was higher than Pichu for a while (in negative votes), though overall Pichu seems to be more positively received than the Sonic trinity, Waluigi, and Krystal since he actually does have some support.

 

[Anti Guy]

I think Waluigi and Krystal are next after Pichu though, right? Waluigi was higher than Pichu for a while (in negative votes), though overall Pichu seems to be more positively received than the Sonic trinity, Waluigi, and Krystal since he actually does have some support.

In terms of net points, Krystal is kinda close (4 points ahead), and Waluigi not as much (5.5 points ahead). Negative-votes-wise, it's not even close. Pichu has 45 negative votes, which is the second worst of ALL characters, second only to Shadow. Krystal has 27, and Waluigi has 34.

 

[ChronoBound]

In terms of net points, Krystal is kinda close (4 points ahead), and Waluigi not as much (5.5 points ahead). Negative-votes-wise, it's not even close. Pichu has 45 negative votes, which is the second worst of ALL characters, second only to Shadow. Krystal has 27, and Waluigi has 34.

How do Knuckles and Tails compare to the Negative Nintendo trinity (Pichu, Waluigi, Krystal)?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

In terms of net points, Krystal is kinda close (4 points ahead), and Waluigi not as much (5.5 points ahead). Negative-votes-wise, it's not even close. Pichu has 45 negative votes, which is the second worst of ALL characters, second only to Shadow. Krystal has 27, and Waluigi has 34.

But with a game that has almost 100,000 unique downloads, you can really only take this poll with a grain of salt. I`m not saying this because my favorite is unliked (I personally have no preference on what character gets in as long as the character is well made and easily fits into the cast), I`m saying this because this poll holds barely over 1/1000 of the Project M player base.

 

[Anti Guy]

How do Knuckles and Tails compare to the Negative Nintendo trinity (Pichu, Waluigi, Krystal)?

Knuckles: -28.5 (9, 7, 41)
Tails: -24 (12, 14, 43)

Pichu: -12.5 (23, 19, 45)
Waluigi: -6 (18, 20, 34)
Krystal: -8.5 (8, 21, 27)

But with a game that has almost 100,000 unique downloads, you can really only take this poll with a grain of salt. I`m not saying this because my favorite is unliked (I personally have no preference on what character gets in as long as the character is well made and easily fits into the cast), I`m saying this because this poll holds barely over 1/1000 of the Project M player base.

The poll should be taken with a grain of salt, but not for that reason. The fact that it's flexible and allowing people to add in new character over time (which I allowed to facilitate discussion and squeeze out any possible missing candidates we missed) causes an imbalance. But the fraction is not a big deal since there's still a sizeable number of people voting to get an idea of relative popularity.

Whenever a new character gets revealed, I'll probably reboot the poll, restrict the options to the ones that have been successful so far, and restrict the voting to those to make it a lot consistent.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Knuckles: -28.5 (9, 7, 41)
Tails: -24 (12, 14, 43)

Pichu: -12.5 (23, 19, 45)
Waluigi: -6 (18, 20, 34)
Krystal: -8.5 (8, 21, 27)

Mind adding shadow to that comparison?

 

[Anti Guy]

Mind adding shadow to that comparison?

-43.5 (10, 7, 57)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Sorry for double posting, but I can`t edit my post without getting a error message.

I think we should remove (or at lease give him a con) Claus from the Poll as Lucas was confirmed in a stream to have a Claus/Masked Man alt. costume (even the light saber looking sword got in to replace his stick, btw I have a huge theory on how the sword is actually a wooden replica and that is why it does the same amount of damage as his stick)

 

[Anti Guy]

Sorry for double posting, but I can`t edit my post without getting a error message.

I think we should remove (or at lease give him a con) Claus from the Poll as Lucas was confirmed in a stream to have a Claus/Masked Man alt. costume (even the light saber looking sword got in to replace his stick, btw I have a huge theory on how the sword is actually a wooden replica and that is why it does the same amount of damage as his stick)

Do you have a link or something? I feel like that's really weird for them to do considering that they said they would only make an alt costume if it's the same character, and those two are not the same. And either way, if they did, I don't think it's an absolute contraindication to him being in because they can just snap their fingers and remove it as an alt costume if they decide to make the character... whereas if he appeared in SSB4, then that's no good.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Do you have a link or something? I feel like that's really weird for them to do considering that they said they would only make an alt costume if it's the same character, and those two are not the same. And either way, if they did, I don't think it's an absolute contraindication to him being in because they can just snap their fingers and remove it as an alt costume if they decide to make the character... whereas if he appeared in SSB4, then that's no good.

Well it`s still Lucas, he`s just wearing a costume of Claus (I think he also wears that costume somewhere in the game)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

sorry again for double post

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dnb8sadxbwyu375/LucasAlt2.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8u9upbuahmtmei/LucasAlt1.png