New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Are there any good reasons to NOT add Ridley?
I'm all ears...

He is already a boss (Big Ridley vs. Little Ridley ftw)

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

So the thing that made Pichu unique in the first place was the self-damaging mechanic, which also made him horrible. How about we keep what makes him unique while simultaneously getting rid of what makes him terrible? Pichu retains the self-damaging mechanics, but he acquires lucario's old mechanic of being stronger with more percent damage. The key thing is that Pichu has control over his percent damage because of the self-damaging moves. Pichu would essentially just be a very high risk high reward character with intense power and knockback and speed as he gets to higher percents, but at the same time risking death because he's a light character with high percent.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

So the thing that made Pichu unique in the first place was the self-damaging mechanic, which also made him horrible. How about we keep what makes him unique while simultaneously getting rid of what makes him terrible? Pichu retains the self-damaging mechanics, but he acquires lucario's old mechanic of being stronger with more percent damage. The key thing is that Pichu has control over his percent damage because of the self-damaging moves. Pichu would essentially just be a very high risk high reward character with intense power and knockback and speed as he gets to higher percents, but at the same time risking death because he's a light character with high percent.

This is genius. And he can have Charge be a taunt that raises his percent by 5% or so.

 

[GunBlaze]

So the thing that made Pichu unique in the first place was the self-damaging mechanic, which also made him horrible. How about we keep what makes him unique while simultaneously getting rid of what makes him terrible? Pichu retains the self-damaging mechanics, but he acquires lucario's old mechanic of being stronger with more percent damage. The key thing is that Pichu has control over his percent damage because of the self-damaging moves. Pichu would essentially just be a very high risk high reward character with intense power and knockback and speed as he gets to higher percents, but at the same time risking death because he's a light character with high percent.

Rewarding players for their mistakes instead of their skills, while acting as a double-edged sword in that Pichu would suck at low percentages.


Doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Chzrm3]

If I'm wrong here than please just ignore my nonsense. Last week was rough on me and I'm just now catching up on sleep. I had to work two jobs on Thanksgiving and one of them kept me until the morning of black Friday, followed by working through Saturday on both jobs. Sunday and Monday were not as bad, but I still lost sleep because of working at 2:30 a.m. everyday and 12:00 a.m. for Thanksgiving.

Hey, no worries! Sorry to hear you had to work on Thanksgiving, that's a tough break. =( Did you get to spend any time with your family? I always feel awful when I hear stories like this, so I really hope you at least got to enjoy some time with your friends/fam. : (

As far as the questions you were asking, I think the primary time sponges are actually creating animations and hitboxes/properties for attacks that don't yet exist in the game. So with someone like Sukapon, if he has an established moveset outside of his game but it's not really reflected in any other character, it means they'd need to take the Sukapon model, animate it to be doing one of those unique attacks, and then setting up the properties of that attack so that it functions correctly. After that, they tweak it so it lends itself to a balanced, fun-to-play character.

So with Mewtwo, the reason he took so much time even though he already had a moveset mapped out for him from Melee was because Brawl didn't have anything comparable that they could borrow from. A lot of his aerials and ground attacks were really unique, so they had to be re-animated and re-constructed. It was helpful that they had his Melee base to work off of, and this would help for Sukapon too, but a lot of stuff had to be created from just that.

Hopefully that was a helpful explanation. But none of this really matters - here's to hoping you can catch up on sleep, and I really hope you don't have to work on Christmas/New Years because of all the time you did during Thanksgiving.

Are there any good reasons to NOT add Ridley?
I'm all ears...

Haha, the only good reason I can think of is that it'd be hard to get him right, but that's kind of a reason that would just get the PMBR pumped, if anything. There are other reasons like Sakurai maaaaaaayyybe adding him into Smash 4 - after all, it's Sakurai we're talking about. He could have a change of heart today and run into Namco's offices with his toothbrush still sticking out of his mouth, spewing out about how he had an epiphany and now Ridley needs to be implemented as a 4 part character where every time he dies, he comes back as a stronger version with more mecha parts on him.

 

[Saito]

Rewarding players for their mistakes instead of their skills, while acting as a double-edged sword in that Pichu would suck at low percentages.


Doesn't solve the problem.

Interesting to say the least.

But technically with Pichu they are punishing players for their skills since self damage infliction.

Might as well go all in to make every point of damage taken an additional benefit to turn some tables.

 

[Chzrm3]

Rewarding players for their mistakes instead of their skills, while acting as a double-edged sword in that Pichu would suck at low percentages.


Doesn't solve the problem.

I guess there are a couple ways you can play with this - maybe only damage Pichu does to himself counts toward his damage increasing mechanic, so him getting batted around wouldn't ramp it up? To take it even further, maybe it's only damage Pichu does to himself that also hurts his opponent? (that might be taking it too far, haha, but it would ensure that only skill was being rewarded)

I really like the idea of playing as Pichu being this crazy experience where you're basically made of paper, but you also have the potential to blow people up if you get going and your damage ramps up. That just seems so exciting and crazy, and I can't think of any character that really has a playstyle like that.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Is this a joke? Pichu is a clone that existed previously in Melee. The PMBR has gone on record in saying that Roy took much less time to make than Mewtwo because of just that. Plus having moveset (which they have all the frame/damage/everything data for) in Melee means they can port it over fairly easily (compared to making a new character anyways) and then build from there. Any other character from here on out requires being built 100% from scratch, meaning they'll all take longer than Mewtwo to make. That means it's a ~300 hour character vs a ~700+ hour character.

I agree that Pichu has ease of implementation going for him, but this is misrepresenting the facts. This article explicitly states that the model and animations are responsible for the bulk of the time commitment for creating the character, for example:
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities

The only thing the PMBR has to directly cut down time spent on Pichu in this regard is Pika's animations, which in reality puts him on the same level as the other "easy" characters given that most animations will need to be tweaked because the animation will be warped when mapped to Pichu's different body proportions (you know, the same ones that make an alt Pichu costume absolutely unacceptable) and the occasional oddball animation such as usmash. Pichu is far from the only candidate that can borrow animations from other characters (some of them borrow even more effectively because they more closely share a body type), and either way he'll need to have his model and animations painstakingly recreated by hand. This will be difficult, just like any other character, and having frame data and hitboxes from Melee does absolutely nothing to mitigate this.

Roy was easier because he shares a body type with Marth as well as the majority of his animations (the only different animation in Melee was Counter, if I'm not mistaken, and they obviously slightly changed a select few or pulled an animation from Ike to make them more distinguishable). I would argue that Mewtwo took an especially long time specifically because he had animations people expected to see recreated on his character, which could not be taken from any existing character in the game. In effect, he was recreated from scratch, moreso than a large portion of the candidates need to be, not just Pichu.

So, the statement that any other character except Pichu would take longer than Mewtwo is ignorant to the fact that Pichu is subject to the same exact design process as the other potential additions, or rather, that the other additions follow the same design process as Pichu. Sure, he's easier than most, but the doubled time commitment you're arbitrarily presenting is inaccurate.

 

[Solbliminal]

@Chzrm3 Sadly I moved out of state to find a job so I could return to college. I didn't get to see my family because of this. It is unfortunate because my family misses me. But it isn't all that bad. I finally bought a computer, I'm just waiting to have the internet set up now. No more of this phone texting nonsense. Hopefully then I can type out proper explainations to my comments and character suggestions. I'll be planning movesets for Kafei and Shadow soon. Maybe Raiden too if anyone finds interest in him.

And a comment to Pichu fans. I personally wouldn't care if he made it as long as at least one character I personally want to see makes it in. My votes were for characters I was interested in seeing in P:M, but by no means are they exactly what I want. Shadow, Kafei, and Raiden currently are characters I want to see. I wouldn't mind Knuckles, Gray Fox, Liquid Snake, Tails, or Skull Kid, but they are not my primary picks. The only reason I myself didn't vote these characters was because of the general lack of interest in them.

 

[trojanpooh]

And a comment to Pichu fans. I personally wouldn't care if he made it as long as at least one character I personally want to see makes it in. My votes were for characters I was interested in seeing in P:M, but by no means are they exactly what I want. Shadow, Kafei, and Raiden currently are characters I want to see. I wouldn't mind Knuckles, Gray Fox, Liquid Snake, Tails, or Skull Kid, but they are not my primary picks. The only reason I myself didn't vote these characters was because of the general lack of interest in them.

I honestly don't care who the other 4 characters are as long as Pichu is among them. There's some stuff I'd like to see, but all I really want is my main of 5+ years to come back in a playable but recognizable state.

Also, you're not voting right. It doesn't matter what you think is likely or popular or anything, you should vote for what you want to see. It's like they say in school: if you have a question [character you want to vote for] say something because it's likely that lots of people in the class have the same question [character on their minds].

 

[Chzrm3]

@Chzrm3 Sadly I moved out of state to find a job so I could return to college. I didn't get to see my family because of this. It is unfortunate because my family misses me. But it isn't all that bad. I finally bought a computer, I'm just waiting to have the internet set up now. No more of this phone texting nonsense. Hopefully then I can type out proper explainations to my comments and character suggestions. I'll be planning movesets for Kafei and Shadow soon. Maybe Raiden too if anyone finds interest in him.

That's a tough situation, but good for you for pursuing college like that! I know a lot of people who gave up even when they had everything handed to them, so mad props to you for working that hard.

I'm looking forward to that Kafei moveset - I didn't even realize he was considered Termina's Link until someone mentioned it, so now I'm excited to read more about him. =D

 

[Paradoxium]

KingClubber says there is a 50/50 chance of pichu returning

 

[Yeerk]

So the thing that made Pichu unique in the first place was the self-damaging mechanic, which also made him horrible. How about we keep what makes him unique while simultaneously getting rid of what makes him terrible? Pichu retains the self-damaging mechanics, but he acquires lucario's old mechanic of being stronger with more percent damage. The key thing is that Pichu has control over his percent damage because of the self-damaging moves. Pichu would essentially just be a very high risk high reward character with intense power and knockback and speed as he gets to higher percents, but at the same time risking death because he's a light character with high percent.

Cool idea, but why not just add Gohan instead?

...now Ridley needs to be implemented as a 4 part character where every time he dies, he comes back as a stronger version with more mecha parts on him.

Hmmm, you're really talking to the PMBR here, aren't you?

 

[Malion]

Someone should give Pichu bide so that as he gets hit he powers up an attack and then releases it Solar Beam style.

 

[GunBlaze]

KingClubber says there is a 50/50 chance of pichu returning

Source?

 

[Paradoxium]

Source?

I just happened to go on to the dabessdi irc chat and he just happened to be there, so I questioned him. he said the CPU's could di, not every character has a final smash, a change list will be released much sooner, and that the members of the pmbr don't have turn ups (lol), I have the conversation saved, I'll post it If you want

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I just happened to go on to the dabessdi irc chat and he just happened to be there, so I questioned him. he said the CPU's could di, not every character has a final smash, a change list will be released much sooner, and that the members of the pmbr don't have turn ups (lol), I have the conversation saved, I'll post it If you want

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! who`s KingClubber? PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!

 

[LeeYawshee]

who`s KingClubber?

One of the people at PMBR, I presume.

 

[GunBlaze]

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! who`s KingClubber? PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!

The wizard behind, most notably, AI Falcon Sacred Combos.

 

[Chzrm3]

One of the people at PMBR, I presume.

That sig + Qx7's post, oh man. That's just too funny. XD

So Pichu's got a 50/50 chance? Dude I just pooped, died of happiness, was reincarnated as Pichu, and then got owned in Melee for 12 years. _ Fells good man.

My guess is that chance is entirely dependent on whichever side in the PMBR wins the eternally raging debate about whether or not he should be included. I don't even wanna know how heated that is! I just hope that there are some brilliant, eloquent would-be lawyers on Pichu's side of things who decided to mod Smash instead of going to law school. Hue hue hue. (or maybe it would be better if they went to law school, but mod smash in their free time? Although, how much free time do you really have during law school.... it may delay Pichu if that's the case. So maybe they should be willfully unemployed geniuses who won the lottery and used it to buy thousands of dollars of Pichu merchandise. Yeah, that makes more sense!)

 

[TopTierPichu]

Pichu should have 100% chance, easily splice the announcer to say pichu, easy moveset, to tier character in melee

 

[Solbliminal]

So here is an interesting bit of info I dug up on Kafei:

"In his youth,Kafei was part of the Bomber's Secret Secret Society of Justice"....."In the manga Kafei retains the strength of a man, despite being turned into a child".

Thoughts?

 

[Steelia]

KingClubber says there is a 50/50 chance of pichu returning

I honestly hope to see Pichu come back. He (she?) had such great potential with the self-hurt mechanic while being so small, fast, and surprisingly strong, would love to see how the PMBR could make it even more interesting. Seen plenty of comments on the PM YouTube videos, and even some suggestions during PM streams, asking about Pichu's whereabouts as well.

While it would undoubtedly be nowhere near as hyped as Mewtwo and Roy's reveals, I don't doubt it'd be received well, especially for the last Melee character. It kind of sucks the Pokemon side of the roster is clogged thanks to Pokemon Trainer setting his team free, but that's not Pichu's fault.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Pichu would generate a lot of hype especially if he uses his percentage to an advantage

 

[trojanpooh]

I think you guys are a little delusional if you think Pichu would generate all that much hype outside of the inner circle of Pichu fans, but who cares? Hype only lasts a week or so after release, it's not very important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that Pichu would be a good character to implement. He'd be interesting, add a unique character to the roster, and make a lot of old Melee fans happy.

 

[GunBlaze]

Smashboards is insane!

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I think you guys are a little delusional if you think Pichu would generate all that much hype outside of the inner circle of Pichu fans, but who cares? Hype only lasts a week or so after release, it's not very important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that Pichu would be a good character to implement. He'd be interesting, add a unique character to the roster, and make a lot of old Melee fans happy.

Isn`t it weird how people were wanting Mewtwo since before the Clone engine yet once he was announced hardly anyone cared past posting "Awesome!" in the comments?

 

[Paradoxium]

I think you guys are a little delusional if you think Pichu would generate all that much hype outside of the inner circle of Pichu fans, but who cares? Hype only lasts a week or so after release, it's not very important in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that Pichu would be a good character to implement. He'd be interesting, add a unique character to the roster, and make a lot of old Melee fans happy.

Are you forgetting who the second most loved character amongst the casuals is? Next to Kirby pichu was the most loved characters in the casual scene, if they heard pichu was in there would be a fair amount of hype

 

[Paradoxium]

Isn`t it weird how people were wanting Mewtwo since before the Clone engine yet once he was announced hardly anyone cared past posting "Awesome!" in the comments?

It's because after Roy was announced M2 was pretty much expected, believe me there is a lot of hype for mew2

 

[trojanpooh]

Are you forgetting who the second most loved character amongst the casuals is? Next to Kirby pichu was the most loved characters in the casual scene, if they heard pichu was in there would be a fair amount of hype

I'm not sure that's right. Neither of those characters are all that popular in the casual scene from what I've observed. Kirby is quite popular for people who never really play aside from a few times a year, but that isn't a casual player, that's a nonplayer.

 

[Paradoxium]

I'm not sure that's right. Neither of those characters are all that popular in the casual scene from what I've observed. Kirby is quite popular for people who never really play aside from a few times a year, but that isn't a casual player, that's a nonplayer.

Eh I guess you may be right on this one, but to be fair whenever I had smash bros at my house it was always Kirby and pichu, and wherever I went it was still always, Kirby and pichu

 

[Chzrm3]

Hahahaha, that is kinda true for me too, actually. I know more than a few people who go "Ooooo I LOVE smashbrothers, I'm SO good", and then they pick Kirby and jump up to the top of the stage and use Down-B x 500, or pick Pikachu/Pichu and just spam thunder.

I actually knew this one kid in high school who was convinced he could destroy my buddy and I in Smash and taunted us for a solid month about it, so we finally went up against him and his friend one day when the game club had Melee running. We were Sheik and Falco, because after a solid 3 years of beat downs from random challengers, we knew better than to use our favorites (DK and Dr. Mario) on the first match. (That always ended miserably). But then he picked Roy, and his friend picked Pichu, and we kind of awkwardly 8-stocked them. His buddy kept charging headbutt and then dying. To make things even more awkward, the kid insisted we do this on the Super Mario Bros 2 level. So Pichu was just kind of derping into the waterfall and then messing up his recovery and dying for no reason, while this Roy tried his hardest and got wrecked.

We didn't even do the best of 3, he was just like "wow, you guys are probably better than me" and left. I always felt kinda bad about that. I've wondered in years past if the kid was just looking to make more friends and didn't know how, so he figured challenging us to Smash Bros would put him in an environment where he could shine. Maybe he had plans, after narrowly beating us over several intense matches, to invite us over to his house to play more Smash. During that time he'd show us more about who he was and what he was all about, and we'd become closer than just acquaintances. Eventually we'd look forward to spending the afternoons at his house, all having fun together while being taught by him. He'd be the ringleader and alpha dog of our little smashing quartet.

Anyway, I don't think my friend or I were really mean or anything, we were always pretty quiet even when we won. He might've seen that and thought that we weren't interested in talking to him. Maybe our calm demeanor + the sound whupping we'd given him had made it seem like we weren't even interested in him at all. Like we thought he was wasting our time, or something.

Yeah, I dunno. I still think about that match every now and then. You know how you have a catalog of matches ingrained in your memory? That one's in mine. Most of the others I either think "ugh, why'd I SD" or "man, that was such a sick finish", but that match just makes me feel kinda sad, like I was so focused on winning that I didn't see who this kid really was.

.........Um yeah, I'm just gonna chalk this one up to "Smash Boards Withdrawal" again and let's pretend this was a big ol' rant about how cool Lyn would be with her big nice swords and ponytail.

 

[trojanpooh]

One surefire way to detect a bad Smash player is they'll claim they can beat you before even watching you play. That's really interesting to me that both of you observed heavy Pichu use in the casual circuit. I'll admit that I haven't considered myself casual in a long long time, and I don't really play with them anymore outside of my brother and his fiance, so what do I know?

 

[Paradoxium]

I dunno, after thinking back about all those times I played melee I kinda miss pichu, it was always fun to see the noobs pick him up only to be slammed back into the dirt

 

[trojanpooh]

It's more fun to see the good players scoff at someone for picking Pichu only to be slammed back into the dirt.

 

[Paradoxium]

Pichu doesn't have a spike, therefore he cannot slam players into the dirt
Falco scrub bub 1v1 get on my level newb

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Pichu doesn't have a spike, therefore he cannot slam players into the dirt
Falco scrub bub 1v1 get on my level newb

but can you TRIP!

 

[CardiganBoy]

He is already a boss (Big Ridley vs. Little Ridley ftw)

Who even plays Subspace Emissary after getting every character, anyways?

 

[red9rd]

Texture I use in Melee

Spoiler

 

[Malion]

Who even plays Subspace Emissary after getting every character, anyways?

People do play boss battles though.