[Nesu] It's so deserted here I could find Criminal Caterpillars. (Post here if you're cool)

[Rockstar]

Haha. Can someone link me to the video thread please

 

[Eagleye893]

Haha. Can someone link me to the video thread please

This is the link

that's the first page, but if you want you can look at other pages...



also, clinton wanna wifi?

 

[Rockstar]

Here's my tournament set against a local olimar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK-TZVyuLyQ Ness users tell me what you guys think. Any tips, opinions, criticism, and compliments well appreciated.

 

[_clinton]

-Don't get hit by Lucas' usmash, fsmash, dsmash at various semi-low to average or so % and avoid his grab, magnet, and a fresh Ftilt at high % as well as his Fair/Uair when by a kill zone at semi-high %. Keep in mind Lucas has the best pummel in the game as well so you don't even have to be at the right % for when he grabs you if you are semi-high.

-Don't get spiked as well from Lucas' Bair/Dair's 2nd and 4th hit. Also avoid getting close to Lucas' Dair when on the ground at semi-average % so you don't get wasted by his 30%+ some odd % kill combo.

-Also don't underestimate the amount of % Lucas can recover with his magnet when it comes to moves like Ness' fire and thunder. 30% is the cap in this game per move for some reason but overall Lucas can recover better than Ness can. His magnet's hitbox is also larger than yours and turns off faster to the point where I don't think you even need the auto cancel.

-Oh and his recovery when off stage is over 9000x better than yours, even if his 2nd jump isn't as good as Ness' normally because Ness' aerial attacks influence his more (of course horizontal and vertical range they tie in overall) and his sweet spot for the ledge is slightly smaller than Ness' that doesn't matter. His rope snake for example has more horizontal range than Link or Tink's claw/hookshot (and beats vertical range when it comes to Tink's). Magnet by itself happens to be better at stalling and providing horizontal distance than Samus' bombs and this isn't even talking about the advance moves with it. His PKT2 has more range than any other single distance recovery move in the game. Of course their are his advanced options for recovery as well if you want them ^_^

-Also learn all of the special movement options Lucas has that are better than your own by far such as thunderslide/magnet pull/Zap Jump and all of the different ways he can use them. For example there are at least 5 heights or so with Zap Jump for starters and 4 different speeds of magnet pull+how you can control the direction as well with it.

 

[Rockstar]

Why are you talking about Lucas?

 

[_clinton]

Why are you talking about Lucas?

Because I underestimated how long the reply would take for this:

How do I play Ness vs Lucas

 

[Dajayman]

Too bad Poocas overall sucks more than Ness. Our aerial game is far better than his and our ground game is better too outside of his jab and ftilt.

Talking about kill moves, I think bair is better than bthrow since it's quite powerful when it's fresh, it does a massive 16% damage, it has very nice range (it's slightly disjointed), it's pretty easy to land it, and it's autocancable. The only problem with bair like most characters with **** bairs is that it's most likely not going to be fresh since it's so useful, but it's still a nice 120%+ kill move even when it's staled which can't be said for Kirby, DDD, Wolf, etc.

Bair and nair are my favorite aerials, uair is pretty decent too. Save a fresh uair for 120% kills on lightweights and 140% on heavies. Bair seems to be a highly underrated move since most people worry about the bthrow at kill percents and don't realize how powerful and safe a Ness throwing out bairs is. My kills come from bair, uair, bthrow, and nair in that order of frequency.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

I have been playing Ness all wrong then. I am stuck in Melee Ness and just use fairs and dthrow to rack damage and the occasional pk fire, and then kill with bthrow.

 

[Dajayman]

Fair is s*** for racking up damage unless you are commited to a full approach fair, which is risky and not what fair does best, which is spaced zoning. Fair only does 11% fresh when all the hitboxes hit, which never happens. Fair usually does 1-3% when spaced and 6-9% when approaching. Approaching fair is decent for followup moves at low and medium percents, it allows you to either grab, jab, ftilt, dtilt, or usmash as a followup. But since it has quite low hitstun your opponent can react so you'll need to predict your opponent's next move for a proper followup.

Dthrow is only useful at low percents, and dthrow's best followups are either a regrab or fair.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Like I said, I am stuck in Melee Ness :/

 

[Rockstar]

Dthrow to bair is a great kill combo. I get it off alot

 

[Z'zgashi]

Im no ness main, but when I play him, dthrow/nair/uair are my damage rackers, and uair juggles quite nicely.

 

[Yink]

Fair should never be a damage racker. EVER.

Also you guys should use Dair more. And Dtilt. Just saying.

 

[Eagleye893]

The only reason Lucas can be seen as good by anybody is if you play him on wifi... The ability to "punish someone's mistakes", aka punishing what wifi BSs you into doing, increases greatly

I'm ****ing done with WiFi... nothing works. Ever. (DON'T call me out at all... Every character apart from ness is favored MUCH more by wifi. Ness, or at least the way I play him, has absolutely NO "spam like a ***** who can't actually play" techniques. Sure, I spam bair, but I need to space perfectly every time for that to be effective.)

AC Dair > Shieldgrab is not beaten by random FSmash. AC Dair > utilt is not beaten by random slow move or super-delayed grab.

I'm 1000% never playing wifi EVER AGAIN!!! It only makes me worse and causes me to get ****ing angry at every minor ****ing detail where I SHOULD be doing well.

I NEVER INPUT USMASH!!!
I NEVER INPUT DSMASH!!!
I ONLY INPUT FSMASH RANDOMLY!!!
I NEVER JUMP WITHOUT SOMETHING TO SHIELD ME!!!
I NEVER WALK RIGHT UP TO SOMEONE AND SAY "HIT ME PLZ, I'M A F**KING ******!!!"
I NEVER DI PERFECTLY BADLY SO THAT I DIE AT 80% TO A MOVE THAT SHOULD NEVER KILL!!!

No matter what someone sways my anger as, THERE ARE NO JOHNS HERE!!! IRL, everything is seamless, I never DI wrong... everything is right with the world. WiFi makes a ton of BS happen.

SORRY CLINTON, THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE MEAN TO YOU! IT'S JUST THAT I CAN'T STAND SOME THINGS ABOUT WIFI, AND HAVE THUS GIVEN UP ON MY ATTEMPTS TO ACTUALLY HAVE FUN PLAYING IT!



Edit: @Yink,
Dair is good for moving around and baiting super well. (WIFI SAYS NOT!!! I HATE WIFI!!!)
Bair is great when landed perfectly on the ground when it's hitting frames come out. Also, it shieldpokes VERY nicely, and can rack up damage or kill based on when you want to use it (WIFI SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHEN LANDING AND INSTEAD JUST LAND WITHOUT PROTECTION RIGHT IN FRONT OF SOMEONE SO THAT THEY GRAB ME!!!)
Uair is great for damage racking and killing, but you have to be careful of where you use it... also, NEVER MISS! (WIFI HATES ME AND SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHENEVER I WANTED TO!!!)
Ftilt can be chained from some aerials at lower percents to give some extra oomph... but it CAN be shielded by some people. That's why I only use it following a Uair, since it pops people up, and sets up perfectly for upward tilted ftilt. (WIFI SAYS I'M USING USMASH, WHICH MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!)

dthrow is a bit iffy... I use it a lot, only because I like where it places my opponent.

 

[_clinton]

GGs Eagle

Too bad Poocas overall sucks more than Ness. Our aerial game is far better than his and our ground game is better too outside of his jab and ftilt.

What BS is this?

Sure our Fair, and Bair are better by far but I'd give Lucas Dair and tie with Uair (they have different purposes, Lucas' isn't a kill move it is a priority move) and maybe Nair (Lucas' eats shields and is overall safer on them, and ours has a GTFO property). Lucas' biggest issue in the air IMO is that he feels slower than Ness, which might be true if you look at air speed acceleration and top speed instead of just top speed (which Lucas beats us in). He also has a lower 1st jump for some reason.

Ground game, you kidding? Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash are all way better with Lucas than Ness. I'm not sure if I should give him the Dtilt because ours is pretty good as well.

Talking about kill moves, I think bair is better than bthrow since it's quite powerful when it's fresh, it does a massive 16% damage, it has very nice range (it's slightly disjointed), it's pretty easy to land it, and it's autocancable.

Of course Bair>Bthrow overall, but as far as killing properties go I'd say Bthrow wins just because of like you said it is easy to keep from being stale. Also it is 15% sweet, 8% sour ^_^

 

[waldorf2007]

The only reason Lucas can be seen as good by anybody is if you play him on wifi... The ability to "punish someone's mistakes", aka punishing what wifi BSs you into doing, increases greatly

I'm ****ing done with WiFi... nothing works. Ever. (DON'T call me out at all... Every character apart from ness is favored MUCH more by wifi. Ness, or at least the way I play him, has absolutely NO "spam like a ***** who can't actually play" techniques. Sure, I spam bair, but I need to space perfectly every time for that to be effective.)

AC Dair > Shieldgrab is not beaten by random FSmash. AC Dair > utilt is not beaten by random slow move or super-delayed grab.

I'm 1000% never playing wifi EVER AGAIN!!! It only makes me worse and causes me to get ****ing angry at every minor ****ing detail where I SHOULD be doing well.

I NEVER INPUT USMASH!!!
I NEVER INPUT DSMASH!!!
I ONLY INPUT FSMASH RANDOMLY!!!
I NEVER JUMP WITHOUT SOMETHING TO SHIELD ME!!!
I NEVER WALK RIGHT UP TO SOMEONE AND SAY "HIT ME PLZ, I'M A F**KING ******!!!"
I NEVER DI PERFECTLY BADLY SO THAT I DIE AT 80% TO A MOVE THAT SHOULD NEVER KILL!!!

No matter what someone sways my anger as, THERE ARE NO JOHNS HERE!!! IRL, everything is seamless, I never DI wrong... everything is right with the world. WiFi makes a ton of BS happen.

SORRY CLINTON, THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE MEAN TO YOU! IT'S JUST THAT I CAN'T STAND SOME THINGS ABOUT WIFI, AND HAVE THUS GIVEN UP ON MY ATTEMPTS TO ACTUALLY HAVE FUN PLAYING IT!



Edit: @Yink,
Dair is good for moving around and baiting super well. (WIFI SAYS NOT!!! I HATE WIFI!!!)
Bair is great when landed perfectly on the ground when it's hitting frames come out. Also, it shieldpokes VERY nicely, and can rack up damage or kill based on when you want to use it (WIFI SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHEN LANDING AND INSTEAD JUST LAND WITHOUT PROTECTION RIGHT IN FRONT OF SOMEONE SO THAT THEY GRAB ME!!!)
Uair is great for damage racking and killing, but you have to be careful of where you use it... also, NEVER MISS! (WIFI HATES ME AND SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHENEVER I WANTED TO!!!)
Ftilt can be chained from some aerials at lower percents to give some extra oomph... but it CAN be shielded by some people. That's why I only use it following a Uair, since it pops people up, and sets up perfectly for upward tilted ftilt. (WIFI SAYS I'M USING USMASH, WHICH MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!)

dthrow is a bit iffy... I use it a lot, only because I like where it places my opponent.

You'll be back.... they always come back. Also I've absolutely no ness knowledge and have done extremely well with him online, but that's just me.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

I feel like my Ness IQ points just shot through the roof (:

Thanks DaJay and Yink for helping me.

 

[_clinton]

My Ness is OK on wifi, but both my Ness and Lucas are a million times better off of it. The thing I like about wifi is that I've been able to play with a ton of people instead of like the 2 or so very rarely IRL that I can play with.

There is a reason why I can use so many characters to some degree that is at least better than average online, and that is because of Wifi and watching/learning how people play their characters. I mean I didn't just pick up how to play as Mario, Luigi, DK, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Zelda, Samus, Pit, Kirby, D3, Olimar, Fox, Wolf, Falcon, Pikachu, Ivysaur, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Ike, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Snake, and Sonic naturally. I've had my *** handed to me by people who can play these characters and it happened on wifi. (Oh and the ones I didn't list I didn't list because I don't feel slightly above average with them, some things you just can't mimic I guess, because I can't chain grab with the Ice Climbers, and I can't "wave dash" with Peach when pulling out a veggie that well)

 

[Yink]

I feel like my Ness IQ points just shot through the roof (:

Thanks DaJay and Yink for helping me.

Eh, Ness is weird if you try to play him high level. He looks great on paper and when you first pick him up. You know, low risks high rewards (such as a fast grab, with a throw that kills). However, he just slowly gets more frustrating to play at a high level. I think Ness needs lots of patience personally.

I think my Ness is pretty darn good. I've had a couple high levels tell me it's legit.

Ness and Lucas both suck on wifi, there's no real discussion in my opinion.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Well I played Ness in SSB and Melee, so I am used to having to handle that learning curve. I just never really cared too much in Brawl until about a week ago, when I realized I don't know how to play him at all.

 

[Yink]

I'm not necessarily saying his learning curve is high, I'm more saying a lot of people enjoy playing as Ness, but he's frustrating at a high level (or just competitive in general). You'd have more luck picking up someone else.

I don't recommend to give up on him though.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Well I second him more for the fun knowing how to play him and learning a new character, basically the same reason I play Ganon . For playing cheap and stuff I have Oli (:

 

[BluePSI]

...Why do I not understand a word anyone says when they get all competitive with their terms

 

[Yink]

...Why do I not understand a word anyone says when they get all competitive with their terms

Because you just don't know the terms, silly! What do you need help with? I'd prefer we all understand. <3

 

[Dajayman]

Dair to dtilt?! Man Yink, you're sounding as crazy as Eagleye!

The number one rule for Ness in high level play: don't get grabbed! Do that and you'll be fine. :3

 

[BluePSI]

Because you just don't know the terms, silly! What do you need help with? I'd prefer we all understand. <3

...everything ._.U just what all the terms mean.

 

[Jiffyboob]

Who's going to SiiS4?

 

[Dajayman]

I am going to SiiS4. Also I hear the great, infamous, and almighty Smash64 will be going too, so I am very excited! <3

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Is anyone going to WHOBO?

 

[Dajayman]

SiiS4 is the last oos thing I'll be going to in a long time, I am getting broke.

 

[Z'zgashi]

The only reason Lucas can be seen as good by anybody is if you play him on wifi... The ability to "punish someone's mistakes", aka punishing what wifi BSs you into doing, increases greatly

I'm ****ing done with WiFi... nothing works. Ever. (DON'T call me out at all... Every character apart from ness is favored MUCH more by wifi. Ness, or at least the way I play him, has absolutely NO "spam like a ***** who can't actually play" techniques. Sure, I spam bair, but I need to space perfectly every time for that to be effective.)

AC Dair > Shieldgrab is not beaten by random FSmash. AC Dair > utilt is not beaten by random slow move or super-delayed grab.

I'm 1000% never playing wifi EVER AGAIN!!! It only makes me worse and causes me to get ****ing angry at every minor ****ing detail where I SHOULD be doing well.

I NEVER INPUT USMASH!!!
I NEVER INPUT DSMASH!!!
I ONLY INPUT FSMASH RANDOMLY!!!
I NEVER JUMP WITHOUT SOMETHING TO SHIELD ME!!!
I NEVER WALK RIGHT UP TO SOMEONE AND SAY "HIT ME PLZ, I'M A F**KING ******!!!"
I NEVER DI PERFECTLY BADLY SO THAT I DIE AT 80% TO A MOVE THAT SHOULD NEVER KILL!!!

No matter what someone sways my anger as, THERE ARE NO JOHNS HERE!!! IRL, everything is seamless, I never DI wrong... everything is right with the world. WiFi makes a ton of BS happen.

SORRY CLINTON, THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE MEAN TO YOU! IT'S JUST THAT I CAN'T STAND SOME THINGS ABOUT WIFI, AND HAVE THUS GIVEN UP ON MY ATTEMPTS TO ACTUALLY HAVE FUN PLAYING IT!



Edit: @Yink,
Dair is good for moving around and baiting super well. (WIFI SAYS NOT!!! I HATE WIFI!!!)
Bair is great when landed perfectly on the ground when it's hitting frames come out. Also, it shieldpokes VERY nicely, and can rack up damage or kill based on when you want to use it (WIFI SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHEN LANDING AND INSTEAD JUST LAND WITHOUT PROTECTION RIGHT IN FRONT OF SOMEONE SO THAT THEY GRAB ME!!!)
Uair is great for damage racking and killing, but you have to be careful of where you use it... also, NEVER MISS! (WIFI HATES ME AND SAYS THAT I NEVER USE IT WHENEVER I WANTED TO!!!)
Ftilt can be chained from some aerials at lower percents to give some extra oomph... but it CAN be shielded by some people. That's why I only use it following a Uair, since it pops people up, and sets up perfectly for upward tilted ftilt. (WIFI SAYS I'M USING USMASH, WHICH MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!)

dthrow is a bit iffy... I use it a lot, only because I like where it places my opponent.

Yoshi sucks even harder. DR in impossible, aiming eggs is hard, cg's are hella difficult, jab canceling is difficult, perfect frames and ground cancels are insanely hard to time, and even more, and those things are pretty much everything I do irl, so online I cant do ****.

I'm not necessarily saying his learning curve is high, I'm more saying a lot of people enjoy playing as Ness, but he's frustrating at a high level (or just competitive in general). You'd have more luck picking up someone else.

I don't recommend to give up on him though.

Yoshi's learning curve is the highest of all characters in brawl, so dont feel bad

 

[_clinton]

Meh, I can think of many a character who have a higher learning rate than Yoshi or Ness at high level play. Ice Climber chain grabs/them in general because keeping your partner alive can be hard for starters (granted character wise it varies, someone like ROB for example has an easier time separating them than someone like D3).

 

[BluePSI]

Yink never did give those definitions

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Yoshi's learning curve is the highest of all characters in brawl, so dont feel bad

Ganon says hi.



From his own tier.

 

[_clinton]

Pretty sure we are talking about how to learn each character at a high level of play, not which character is the hardest to play as because he is overall considered the worst one in the game.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Meh, I can think of many a character who have a higher learning rate than Yoshi or Ness at high level play. Ice Climber chain grabs/them in general because keeping your partner alive can be hard for starters (granted character wise it varies, someone like ROB for example has an easier time separating them than someone like D3).

Actually, most people agree yoshi is more difficult than ICies, just look at all of our ATs and the fact that we find new stuff at least once a month. And the fact that not one person in the world can do every single one of his techniques at least somewhat consistant yet.

 

[Yink]

Yink never did give those definitions

Shhh...I'm right here. Are there any you've seen recently you want to point out?

Also: You guys better come to Brainshock in June...if you live in the Midwest anyways. AND DAJAY WHAT THE HELL MAN YOU BETTER COME TO THIS ONE.

 

[_clinton]

I have yet to find someone who can do all of Ness' or Lucas' techniques consistent yet but I'll admit I guess we aren't finding out new things at least once a month (I think we've stalled here actually). What does he have now anyway, any chance for a full list considering how I pretty much stopped checking after learning his wavedash or whatever it is named stuff? Thanks

 

[BluePSI]

Shhh...I'm right here. Are there any you've seen recently you want to point out?

Also: You guys better come to Brainshock in June...if you live in the Midwest anyways. AND DAJAY WHAT THE HELL MAN YOU BETTER COME TO THIS ONE.

Nope, I would just like to know what they all mean ._.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Pretty sure we are talking about how to learn each character at a high level of play, not which character is the hardest to play as because he is overall considered the worst one in the game.

Ganons whole game is guessing what you're going to do before you do it, and try and punish it.

gg cp?