Ness

[Roger Wilco]

I've been playing with Ness a lot recently, and I've actually become quite good with him. I hope they add another Mother character though, even if it isn't Porky. The series is just fantastic as a whole.

they should 100% add duster because he'd be super rad in a smash game

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I always thought a good way to improve Ness' recovery was that you didn't have to worry about aiming the PK Thunder at the right angle. If Ness is off the stage all you have to do is hit yourself with PK Thunder (from any direction) and Ness will automatically blast homing to the ledge. That would keep his recovery unique but make it a lot easier to pull off.

I think that's a really bad idea and here is why:
People will just take the ledge from you(Ivysaur). PK Thunder 2 loses aiming ability. Doing this doesnt really make it faster which is its main problem(the slowness).

 

[Koopaul]

Ness is covered in electricity when he blasts to a ledge. If anyone is hanging on, they'll get zapped. I'm just trying to come up with a way to keep Ness' recovery (which has because iconic for him) but make it easier to recover with.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

When you grab a ledge you become invincible. A person would simply be invincible when Ness tries to recover.

 

[grizby2]

making the recovery home-in on the ledge takes away his ability to play tricks on the opponent (also makes his waaaaay too predictable, as if its not already predictable..). you should just aim it like usual. another option is to sorta make it curve like lucario's Up-B.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I've been thinking about a recovery(not necessarily for Ness, but it might fit) that works like Pikachu's B attack where it hugs surfaces. If Ness, say, hit himself into a wall he would cling to the wall and curve up it. This could let him get to a ledge pretty easily and if the ledge was occupied he could simply hug the wall/floor and slide past it onto the stage.

 

[Roger Wilco]

easy fix: make up b a teleport like zelda's, neutral b pk thunder, and keep side b pk fire. everyone's happy especially me. the teleport should be somewhat short ranged but not make him immobile, and increase range of pk thunder 2.

 

[Schoo]

easy fix: make up b a teleport like zelda's, neutral b pk thunder, and keep side b pk fire. everyone's happy especially me. the teleport should be somewhat short ranged but not make him immobile, and increase range of pk thunder 2.

So, pretty much give him a teleport like Mewtwo in Project M? I like it. I don't really agree with having his PK Thunder on his neutral. I think he just needs a new neutral B all in all.

 

[grizby2]

I've been thinking about a recovery(not necessarily for Ness, but it might fit) that works like Pikachu's B attack where it hugs surfaces. If Ness, say, hit himself into a wall he would cling to the wall and curve up it. This could let him get to a ledge pretty easily and if the ledge was occupied he could simply hug the wall/floor and slide past it onto the stage.

haven't heard that concept before, that's pretty unique. though, I'd hate to hit a wall in a downward angle.

..anyone think ness should be able to wall-cling like lucario, squirtle, ect?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Maybe I've been playing too long, but I really dont think aiming pk thunder 2 is that hard.

The only changes I think it would need are:
-Less ending lag(so he has better options when recovering onto the stage instead of to the ledge)
-No freefall unless he hits himself (so eating his thunder doesnt instantly kill him)

 

[PKBeam]

Maybe I've been playing too long, but I really dont think aiming pk thunder 2 is that hard.

The only changes I think it would need are:
-Less ending lag(so he has better options when recovering onto the stage instead of to the ledge)
-No freefall unless he hits himself (so eating his thunder doesnt instantly kill him)

Ness' PK Thunder 2 has a very large autocancel (no landing lag) area, even moreso than Lucas'.
That means he can do really dumb troll things with his thunder.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Ness' PK Thunder 2 has a very large autocancel (no landing lag) area, even moreso than Lucas'.
That means he can do really dumb troll things with his thunder.

The only time there is no landing lag is when you finish all of your lagging in the air before you land. Whether on the ground or in the air there is still a large amount of time when you are in cooldown from PK Thunder 2 and have no hitbox on you.

 

[PKBeam]

Oh whatever, I meant that its easier to autocancel Ness' PK Thunder 2 when aiming for the stage from the most common point that Lucas'.

But how do you explain that when you SH PKT2 as Lucas and shoot yourself parallel to the screen, you get probably a frame or two of lag when you land?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

What does "parallel to the screen" mean?

I also have trouble understanding your first sentence.

 

[iam8bit]

I just hope they beef my Ness up a bit from Brawl.

N64 to Melee transition was horrible, they gimped him a lot. Then from Melee to Brawl some things were improved, but with the overall "slowness" I found myself kinda replacing Ness with Lucas (though I still consider Ness my main).

I'm both excited and scared about what will happen to Ness in Smash 4.

 

[PKBeam]

What does "parallel to the screen" mean?

I also have trouble understanding your first sentence.

180 degrees. Straight line.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

180 degrees. Straight line.

What? 180 degrees is a half circle and all PK Thunder 2s are straight lines until you run into something that causes you to change direction.

 

[grizby2]

you know, along with the ungimpable projectile aspect from melee, id be fine if just the ending animation and landing lag was less.

 

[PKBeam]

What? 180 degrees is a half circle and all PK Thunder 2s are straight lines until you run into something that causes you to change direction.

No, straight line as in parallel to FD...

-------------------------------------------->
_____________________________________
\ Final Destination /

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

you know, along with the ungimpable projectile aspect from melee, id be fine if just the ending animation and landing lag was less.

Combining the faster projectile speed from Brawl with the (mostly)unbreakable projectile from Melee would result in something generally overpowered, I think. There would have to be some sort of projectile speed reduction(reduced from Brawl's speed) to compensate.

No, straight line as in parallel to FD...

-------------------------------------------->
_____________________________________
\ Final Destination /

Oh I understand now. Horizontal.

Ness' and Lucas' upB moves may simply have different amounts of lag on them. Even if they didn't, however, the amount of time lagging on the ground vs. lagging in the air is different simply because they have different fall speeds. Ending PK Thunder 2 at the same height above the ground may result in an "auto-cancel" for one and not the other simply because one is more or less floaty than the other.

 

[PKBeam]

Oh well doesn't matter... in the end no matter how good Ness' PKT2 is at autocancelling, Lucas will still be a lot better at recovering.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Oh well doesn't matter... in the end no matter how good Ness' PKT2 is at autocancelling, Lucas will still be a lot better at recovering.

In the end Jigglypuff will have a better recovery than Ganon....

 

[PKBeam]

True, and MK will still OP the crap out of everyone else

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

But we can dream, right?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Actually, I really loved playing as Ness in Brawl. I think they finally got a right playstyle for him, but that damn grab release thing just ruined him... This, and the King Dedede vs DK matchup, Pokémon Trainer´s Stamina mechanic, Lucario´s Aura mechanic and Hyrule Tier are combined probably the most ****ty things in Brawl combined...

I still would like a more EarthBound-true moveset for Ness though. Just replace a few attacks for a swing with his Yo-Yo or Bat and replace PK Fire and Thunder with other **** and I´d be content. However... Changing Ness too much now would also be weird.

 

[PKBeam]

But we can dream, right?

Maybe in a few months we can find that maybe a certain combo or use of a move can bump some characters up like 5 spots... and maybe someone will finally get a +1 on MK from a secret chaingrab or something...

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Oh I thought we were talking about Smash 4. I dont really care what happens in Brawl at this point.

 

[BoomToon]

they should 100% add duster because he'd be super rad in a smash game

Duster is awesome but I would love to see Kumatora in there too.

 

[PKBeam]

really, mother 1 characters should be in this game before we add another mother 3 char.

 

[PigmaskColonel]

Although I liked Lucas more than Ness in Brawl, Ness found the perfect moveset and play style in Brawl. But you know what? I think Ness, Lucas, and Porky should be in SSB4!

 

[PKBeam]

mmmmm.... i'd prefer a mother 1 character

 

[PigmaskColonel]

Hmm. If that's the case, then let's get Porky and Ninten!

 

[Tree Cat]

I believe the best way to fix his recovery is to make PKT able to withstand a hit (like lucas') and add the ability to curve PKT2 a bit. I also want double jump cancel into forward smash because that is the ****.

 

[PigmaskColonel]

I believe the best way to fix his recovery is to make PKT able to withstand a hit (like lucas') and add the ability to curve PKT2 a bit. I also want double jump cancel into forward smash because that is the ****.

You know, that totally makes sense. I didn't really think about PK Thunder. I did have some trouble performing it succesfully, so they should make it to where it can hit an object at least once with out dissappearing.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

If they made it so you didnt go into freefall if someone ate it then it wouldnt even be an issue.

 

[grizby2]

I was playing with my friend the other day. we always like to do Ness vs lucas matches. he knows that in these matches, I'll NEVER use PSI flash, because its just about the simplest thing for ness/lucas to absorb. somehow, I managed a fully charged PSI Flash on him while we were both standing on the stage, which is pretty much the worst position to be at for attempting to land PSI flash on another 10 year smash vet (especially one that knows how you play). you would think he would just wait till it was gone, or try to absorb it like he normally does. but no, for some reason he charged at me, noticed I hadn't let go yet, roll dodged, side dodged twice, and then he TOOK it.
..

... we laughed so hard.
if anything, I use PSI Flash as a mind trick, but JEEZ, it must have taken at least 4 years to actually land that on him while he was lucas

Spoiler

(and not in helpless state. dat shish don't count. )

 

[PKBeam]

PK Flash.
10PKFlash

 

[Pazzo.]

In any case, here's hoping to a better Ness!

 

[PSIguy89]

first off I love this thread and the ideas you guys throw out! (props to diddy) although im feeling like the only big change Ness could get at this point (moveset wise) is a new final smash WHICH imo should have been PK ROCKIN from the start. man....that day on the dojo when they reveal Ness's FS I was so pissed lol
also you know what change I want the most? a clearer sound file for "PK flash" do you even know how many years it took me to actually hear that?!? lol

 

[PKBeam]

Does anyone else think when SSB4 is released Ness will be like -2 or -3 against Villager...
- drop bowling ball on PK Thunder 2
- gimp him with the item collect
- camp him with the slingshot
- disjointed ground game
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Villager was a hard counter for Ness...