Ness

[grizby2]

Alternate Skin.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Alternate Skin.

What a quack . Personally I'd like to see a masked man alternate skin If they do them that is ^^;

 

[PK-Omelette]

What a quack . Personally I'd like to see a masked man alternate skin If they do them that is ^^;

MM is Claus.

He already is an alternate skin to Lucas...

 

[Tepig2000]

Starfox suffers the same problem by having three characters with similar specials. I would change Wolf's specials or boot him. I feel that Falco is alright in having tweaked specials to show how he uses the same equipment differently than his leader. Luigi I also feel is ok being a semi-clone because he is a team-mate to the main character.

Ness already borrows specials from other characters. I don't think you need two Psi boys that showcase similar powers. Just my opinion.

Wolf is really diferent from Fox. The only specials that need changing are his down special and final smash.

 

[Bowserlick]

Well, out of all the specials I do think down B is the worst offender. But Up B really is quite similar.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Lets not get caught up on animations and names of moves. How similar are they mechanically? The similarities between wolf's upB and fox's upB are less than those between Sheik's uair and Samus' uair.

 

[ClubbyBear]

I made this image a bit ago for Ness

I hope Ness returns, he's my main player.

 

[grizby2]

I made this image a bit ago for Ness

I hope Ness returns, he's my main player.

he looks so vibrant! hd here we come~
and welcome to the forums!

 

[ClubbyBear]

he looks so vibrant! hd here we come~
and welcome to the forums!

Thanks :D

 

[DonkaFjord]

If both Lucas and Ness return I am guessing Lucas would be the unlockable character this time.

 

[Phan7om]

Some changes...

• Change Up-B to make it easier to recover / Make his Double Jump higher and give it super armor. (The teleport idea sounds nice)
• PSI Magnet hitbox instead of windbox / Jump Cancelable PSI magnet
• No "10 frames of lag" after grab release
• Melee Sweetspot sound on F-Smash. (Fully charged should have really high knockback if sweetspotted)
• Slightly better grab range.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You've seen Ness's down B in Melee SD Remix? It's basically a Shine there.

 

[Molten Lava]

i've been maining Ness since Smash 64, so naturally my first post is going to be in the Ness forums.

surprisingly, my paranoia is not that he'll be bad, but that he won't be in the game, period. it's irrational to be concerned with this, given he's a veteran fighter from all Smash games and his series has had plenty of representation (three total stages, items, and a second character), but Sakurai is kind of a wild card and will do his own thing that nobody expects. i have friends talking about possibility of another Mother character while i'm just worrying about him being in the game in general.

as for a moveset change, to be totally honest, i'm content with his moveset now. obviously, things like grab releases and huge lag are things i'd like to see changed for the better, but all in all, i've been kicking ass with Ness all these years and his moveset in Smash 4 won't be stopping me. if anything at all, i saw one recommendation that his Up+B should have the ability to charge if the B button is held down for a recovery, and a standard PKT if released regularly, and i'm on board with that. i'm also on board with changing his Final Smash, as that isn't important to competitive play (assuming the properties of Final Smashes stay the same), but still is nice to have.

 

[Louie G.]

i've been maining Ness since Smash 64, so naturally my first post is going to be in the Ness forums.

surprisingly, my paranoia is not that he'll be bad, but that he won't be in the game, period. it's irrational to be concerned with this, given he's a veteran fighter from all Smash games and his series has had plenty of representation (three total stages, items, and a second character), but Sakurai is kind of a wild card and will do his own thing that nobody expects. i have friends talking about possibility of another Mother character while i'm just worrying about him being in the game in general.

as for a moveset change, to be totally honest, i'm content with his moveset now. obviously, things like grab releases and huge lag are things i'd like to see changed for the better, but all in all, i've been kicking *** with Ness all these years and his moveset in Smash 4 won't be stopping me. if anything at all, i saw one recommendation that his Up+B should have the ability to charge if the B button is held down for a recovery, and a standard PKT if released regularly, and i'm on board with that. i'm also on board with changing his Final Smash, as that isn't important to competitive play (assuming the properties of Final Smashes stay the same), but still is nice to have.

Welcome to Smashboards! Don't worry, Ness isn't going anywhere.
It's like cutting Captain Falcon!
Ugh... The thought of cutting Ness and Falcon makes me cringe.

 

[KoolKai]

I personally think that Ness should just immediately use PKT2 when airborne but use the projectile PKT1 when grounded. He would be able to direct the PKT2 just before launching like Fox when he uses his Fire Fox up special. This would solve the problem of recovery without removing the PKT projectile attack. Just my opinion though...

 

[grizby2]

@Koolkai/ Molten Lava
WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!

I personally think that Ness should just immediately use PKT2 when airborne but use the projectile PKT1 when grounded. He would be able to direct the PKT2 just before launching like Fox when he uses his Fire Fox up special. This would solve the problem of recovery without removing the PKT projectile attack. Just my opinion though...

that's not a bad idea, although sometimes I DO like performing the projectile in mid-air.
I feel that if he could automatically use ptk2 it would probably be nerfed in terms of knockback since it would be a bit too easy to do.
if pkt2 was his new recovery by itself, I like to see it as having the distance of fire fox with the maneuverability of extreme speed .

maybe pkt1 could be a B-tap, and pkt2 can be a B-hold. like molten mentioned. superb idea.

but I would still want the option to activate pkt2 by hitting myself with pkt1 (probably doing more dmg/knockback than holding B to perform pkt2).
i'll call it "True pkt2"

 

[Rasumii]

Ness was such an interesting and unique character. He's definitely not going anywhere.

 

[KoolKai]

@grizby2
Thanks for welcoming me! I've been intending to join for quite some time but never got around to it until now...

I didn't see Molten Lava's post previously and I agree with it completely. And I do think it would be cool if Ness could maneuver like Lucario with PKT2 as you said. I really hope they do buff Ness as Earthbound is one of my favorite games of all time and Ness is an incredibly under appreciated character...

 

[SSGuy]

Has anyone brought up the idea that his chances might have increased with the reveal of Peach? I mean, she does pull Mr. Saturn as an item. Sakurai does not really plan on changing move sets for characters.

Not one of my favorite competitive characters but still really enjoy him.

 

[Molten Lava]

Has anyone brought up the idea that his chances might have increased with the reveal of Peach? I mean, she does pull Mr. Saturn as an item.

I... can't believe I didn't think of this

LONG LIVE NESS

 

[KoolKai]

I don't think it was ever in question that he will return.
What I'm more surprised about is that he hasn't been announced yet especially with the release of Earthbound on Virtual Console. After all, Olimar was announced with the release of Pikmin 3 and Toon Link with Wind Waker HD.
I just hope he gets some major buffs as he is a very fun and unique character.

 

[Rasumii]

Has anyone brought up the idea that his chances might have increased with the reveal of Peach? I mean, she does pull Mr. Saturn as an item. Sakurai does not really plan on changing move sets for characters.

Not one of my favorite competitive characters but still really enjoy him.

There hasn't been any pictures of her plucking that out, or even still have that move, but it's definitely something to think about. Sakurai did say that she was getting a bit of a revamped moveset too. But we could always hope for the best!

 

[grizby2]

There hasn't been any pictures of her plucking that out, or even still have that move, but it's definitely something to think about. Sakurai did say that she was getting a bit of a revamped moveset too. But we could always hope for the best!

there was a picture drawn by sakurai that had a mr. Saturn in it, but it was mainly a big deal more because of Z-samus being in there.
still

 

[MSmariosonic]

Original 12...we are gonna see him returning for sure....I just love his devestating back throw.

 

[grizby2]

Original 12...we are gonna see him returning for sure....I just love his devestating back throw.

such easy kills with that throw~
and to think it'll contain 100% more rosier cheeks!

 

[Warheart_666]

It's just a matter of time when they reveal this unique boy.
But I'm more interested to see what happens after Ness. Are we going to see Lucas return or are we going to see something like Kumatora or even something completely new like Duster, Teddy, Jeff or any other character from the Mother universe!

 

[Molten Lava]

A couple theories being kicked around are Lucas getting cut, the entirety of EB getting cut (highly unlikely, but pessimists will be pessimists), and Ness and Lucas returning exclusively and that's it. My theory is that they'll either return Ness and Lucas and that's it, OR ness and Lucas both return with an additional EB character. The new EB character will most likely be a villian, as the current trend for a sesries in SSB is:
1. Character
2. Clone of Character
3. Antagonist from Series

my money is on Porky or The Masked Man

 

[Rasumii]

Ness is definitely returning, anyone that says otherwise is wrong. He was part of the original game, and Earthbound came out for the Virtual Console on the Wii U, making it slightly more relevant.

Lucas, I believe, is getting cut, and should rightly due so. I loved Lucas, and preferred him over Ness and I had actually mained him at one point, but Ness is more deserving. The other Mother series Rep should definitely be Porky, followed by Masked Man if gotten a 3rd Rep. Porky is definitely the most deserving for a spot.

 

[Molten Lava]

you know, now that I think about it, the Mother series has so much representation in SSB that there's no reason to cut Ness. stages, multiple characters, two boss battles in SSE, etc. it's not a rational fear to think Ness will be cut.

 

[grizby2]

I think the thing most people don't realize is how troublesome it is to make porky a playable character, especially without the huge mech, which is a staple for porky.
they'd have to re-invent him in order for him to work, but sakurai seems to do that with anything.

Spoiler

and then theres people not playing the games and assuming porky has this glorious moveset potential without a mech. besides being a douchebag, he has no real power. still, people hunger for their villain characters .

 

[Rasumii]

I do love my Porky.

His Final Smash could always be his Mech, but I guess he still basically relies on that. Well, Sakurai is usually pretty great with coming up with movesets.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I want Poo Mirror.

 

[Molten Lava]

I think the thing most people don't realize is how troublesome it is to make porky a playable character, especially without the huge mech, which is a staple for porky.
they'd have to re-invent him in order for him to work, but sakurai seems to do that with anything.

Spoiler

and then theres people not playing the games and assuming porky has this glorious moveset potential without a mech. besides being a douchebag, he has no real power. still, people hunger for their villain characters .

oh no, porky is really hard to make into a character. but I trust Sakurai to make something cool. the mech would be a final smash probably. I mean I guess its difficult but they made Olimar into a playable character, so

 

[grizby2]

oh no, porky is really hard to make into a character. but I trust Sakurai to make something cool. the mech would be a final smash probably. I mean I guess its difficult but they made Olimar into a playable character, so

yeah. lol

id be okay if they added any mother character really. I don't see it happening though, and im pretty sure it'll just be the two boys. id be shocked if they cut lucas, who is even more fleshed out as a character than Ness is .
but what tears me apart is when people demand that ness be the ONLY character to rep the mother series. it would be the first time a franchise's character count went DOWN. I mean at least Fire emblem kept their character count at two for brawl. It could have easily just been marth in brawl since roy was a clone, but they put in ike instead and gave him a unique moveset.
lucas and ness aren't clones. they're about that same as fox is to wolf ("Cousins" if you will), so that shouldn't be a problem. but I have a good amount of faith that lucas will make it back. we all thought toon link was done for, but if HE made it back, lucas should have noooo probs gettin' in~

Spoiler

one day I will make a thread citing all differences between the two! I willlllll!

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I don't understand the love for Porky, nor do I want him in Smash.

Ness is a guarantee stay and Lucas will most likely return. Hoping Ness can be closer to his 64 style where his throws were killer.

 

[Rasumii]

I don't understand the love for Porky, nor do I want him in Smash.

Ness is a guarantee stay and Lucas will most likely return. Hoping Ness can be closer to his 64 style where his throws were killer.

I've become a Mother fanboy, and I just absolutely loved his character and everything he did. He was just so evil and he quickly became one of my favorite antagonists ever.

I'd be fine with, well really any Mother series Rep, but I want Porky above all-else.

 

[Luco]

No I meant the concept of a recovery that:
1) Requires an interceptable projectile
2) Travels in a perfectly linear pattern
3) Takes that long to activate
And 4) Telegraphs it's exact direction to the defender

cannot be usable in high-level play. Increasing the distance and reducing landing lag solves none of those issues.

I like the idea of a teleport

Was just gonna point out - but it's actually interesting to not that high level players are really proficient with when to use Ness' recovery. If you've ever seen shaky, you'd realise he almost never gets gimped as Ness because he knows in exactly what situation to use double jumps and upB.

 

[grizby2]

Was just gonna point out - but it's actually interesting to not that high level players are really proficient with when to use Ness' recovery. If you've ever seen shaky, you'd realise he almost never gets gimped as Ness because he knows in exactly what situation to use double jumps and upB.

well any good player knows if their double jump will be enough for them to make it back to the stage or not (a MUST for any ness player!), but jock is probably talking about the times that PKT2 is ness's ONLY chance of recovery.
some recoveries can be used in a crafty way (ex: lucario can bend his recovery in an unpredictable fashion) , but pkt2 is pretty predictable once its activated.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

"No I meant the concept of a recovery that:
1) Requires an interceptable projectile
2) Travels in a perfectly linear pattern
3) Takes that long to activate
And 4) Telegraphs it's exact direction to the defender

cannot be usable in high-level play. Increasing the distance and reducing landing lag solves none of those issues."

#2: No it doesnt.
#4: Comparable to almost every recovery in the game and even less than some.

#1 is really the only thing that needs a change and not so much that the projectile shouldn't be interceptable, but your opponent should not want to intercept it (because it shouldnt be worth it). This can be done by making it so Ness doesnt go into freefall after its intercepted or by giving it a longer tail so that trying to intercept it is much riskier.

Decreasing the landing lag is actually one of the more major weaknesses that makes Ness easy to edgeguard. Sure, you can jump out and eat his thunder or hit him during his slow recovery, but why when its so easy to just hog the edge so he has to recovery on stage and then abuse the lag.

People say Sheik's recovery has too much landing lag. Imagine if Ness had that much lag on his upB.....it would seem amazingly fast!

How does this sound for Ness' recovery:
-Ness doesnt go into freefall unless he does PKT2.
-The tail of PK Thunder continuously grows until Ness does PKT2 or PK Thunder expires(but hitting something or ending)
-When ending PKT2 on the ground, Ness has the same cooldown lag as Sheik does when landing out of Vanish

 

[Luco]

well any good player knows if their double jump will be enough for them to make it back to the stage or not (a MUST for any ness player!), but jock is probably talking about the times that PKT2 is ness's ONLY chance of recovery.
some recoveries can be used in a crafty way (ex: lucario can bend his recovery in an unpredictable fashion) , but pkt2 is pretty predictable once its activated.

Not even. you can be tricky with when you activate it - and once you active it, you can make it go in an irregular way to hit yourself to safety.

@Simna: The no. 2 on that sounds very over-powered - think about the use of PKT1 on-stage. It would leave the other person absolutely unable to approach.

Otherwise I kinda like the idea that Ness doesn't go into free-fall if it's intercepted