Ness Video & Critique Thread

[Man of Popsicle]

Cool tunes.
Use less Dair.
More Thunder.
More Shorthops.
Make more use of ground game (aka grab).

 

[Eagleye893]

GIMR..... I like your ness.
Only problems were maybe a bit too hasty to use your second jump...
And you bthrew a bit early....
And you had a perfect opportunity for a jab lock that you missed.

Otherwise, good spacing and everything.




I wanna see some videos of smash64 and shakester from recent stuff though. Also vice. And possibly barto.....
Or just to eventually vs you all on wifi... I dunno. I like seeing other play styles, b/c mine is too flawed.

 

[Neon Ness]

Shaky's recent videos against HRNUT were really good.

Haven't heard much from ViceGrip lately though, I wonder if he still goes to tourneys regularly.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I'm not really looking for critique because I think I know what I suck at.
Anyways, this is like the second or third match of the first person I played after a 1.5 year hiatus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFVNimKp8
It sucks but all the kills are lol.

 

[Eagleye893]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswxRoriW3o

This is the second game of Akashi vs. Me in Brackets on Saturday. I feel like I should've won now that I look back at it. >.<

The funny thing about this tournament is that I'm lucky enough to have the rule of "no GR infinite on Ness/Lucas". I've gotta find ways of dealing with the infinite at different tournaments... or I might find a second just for the people with obnoxious GR stuff on Ness... Like MAYBE DDD, but I suck as him.

 

[NatesBound]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12ka6s-NJVY

Any tips :o im expecting millions ;-;

 

[Jiffyboob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12ka6s-NJVY

Any tips :o im expecting millions ;-;

Watch rolling into your opponent.
Watch your spot dodges against Lucas, his moves punish them well.
Save your back throw as a kill move, it stales using it at low percent.
PKT2 should be set up (covering their recovery, landing, etc.), it won't work just throwing it out there.
I'd use FAir alot more and space with it (idk if you even used it once)

These are all just my opinions, I'm in no way an expert.

 

[NatesBound]

Watch rolling into your opponent.
Watch your spot dodges against Lucas, his moves punish them well.
Save your back throw as a kill move, it stales using it at low percent.
PKT2 should be set up (covering their recovery, landing, etc.), it won't work just throwing it out there.
I'd use FAir alot more and space with it (idk if you even used it once)

These are all just my opinions, I'm in no way an expert.

why thank you :D
My rolling does tend to get me killed a lot o-o

 

[Eagleye893]

could anyone comment on my tournament video vs. Akashi's Marth? I need some hints, other than I should've not been offstage and in the water at the last stock.

 

[MVD]

hopefully ima have some new ness stuff on these boards

 

[Clawdsf98]

can any of you ness ditto me and critique me? Dx

 

[Dajayman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswxRoriW3o

This is the second game of Akashi vs. Me in Brackets on Saturday. I feel like I should've won now that I look back at it. >.<

The funny thing about this tournament is that I'm lucky enough to have the rule of "no GR infinite on Ness/Lucas". I've gotta find ways of dealing with the infinite at different tournaments... or I might find a second just for the people with obnoxious GR stuff on Ness... Like MAYBE DDD, but I suck as him.

Missed a perfect jab lock opportunity at 1:00. Should've used jab instead of shield.

Bad bthrow attempt at 1:31, get into the habit of bthrowing when you KNOW it will kill. Make people absolutely fear Ness' psychic throws.

Space those rising fairs a bit better, he shouldn't have grabbed you second stock.

STOP PK JUMPING SO GOD DAMN ****ING MUCH!!! I was crying on your last stock, so many PK Jump fails. You took like 30%+ damage from your failed attempts, and then you forget how easily Marth counters PKF and when you did finally land one you still got a sword swing to the face. It's unwise to try risky PK Jumps on Marth, let alone regular PKFs. I'd say you gave Marth under 50% damage from those PKFs while Marth gave you a nice punish almost everytime.

 

[Clawdsf98]

this is a vid of my ness if any1 wants to critique it. this is a vid of my ness's old style =/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P6KcTv2cnc&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Dajayman]

I don't see a vid?

 

[Neon Ness]

Yeah I'm not seeing it. Edit the link into your post I guess?

Also if you want to ask for online matches against other Nesses here, try NGD or this old fossil. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280665

This thread is just for videos really.

 

[Clawdsf98]

there we are >_> i edited a link in. any viewers can critique

 

[Dajayman]

this is a vid of my ness if any1 wants to critique it. this is a vid of my ness's old style =/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P6KcTv2cnc&feature=channel_video_title

Work on your vertical PKT2 recoveries, especially on places like PS1 and FD where those lips can **** you over.

At 2:46 if you did a FF fair then you could've setup a jablock.



It's a bit annoying for me to critique friendlies since they're clearly not too serious so and people don't play to the best of their ability. Post some seriouslies. ;3

 

[Pachinkosam]

ness is weak then lucas.lucas got the change to be a new earthbound no joke PLEASE VISIT MY BLOG SMASHPROZ IT SO LONELY

 

[Neon Ness]

Um, please don't post off topic comments in this thread. This is for posting videos of competitive Ness gameplay.

If you want to compare Ness and Lucas use the social thread, and if you want people to look at your blog well, just be patient.

 

[NatesBound]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YWGYI4Eej4

I swear that the rolling is habitual i cant break it ;-;
and i panicked a lot especially towards the end Dx

 

[Neon Ness]

Is that Sonic Heroes music I hear?

My first thought was you took a lot of crazy risks in this fight, but I'm not sure I can even criticize you since you got 2 kills by playing that way lol. Normally though I would say not to try PKT2 onstage against opponents out of the blue like that... it's a bit too easy for a more careful opponent to just shield and punish Ness. Also be careful about relying on dair when you're in the air above your opponent, I consider that a blind spot for Ness since it's pretty much his only defense in that position + it comes out really slowly. If you're above them sometimes the best thing to do is focus on landing safely back on stage instead of desperately tossing out dairs.

The only other thing is work on experimenting with PKT from a distance. I hate to tell anyone not to use PK Flash, but especially against someone like Meta Knight it's kind of a risky/unreliable move :C PKT is more versatile when you learn how to loop it around properly, and racking up damage with it safely is often better than trying to land a Flash for the KO. Ness has better KO options to rely on. Remember to save backthrow for when it will absolutely KO.

And breaking the rolling habit will come with time.

 

[NatesBound]

Yesh it is sonic heroes music, mystic mansion stage to be exact :D

Why thanks for responding :3 Im really trying to up my game even if its just a bit and meta knights are usually so agro and difficult for me @_@

but aww I love pk flash its all green and cool looking Dx I suppose I can lay off of it ;-; , ill definitely work on really using the PKT to my advantage, I forget that it can be more than a recovery
That rolling of mine has cost me so many matches *grr* talk about getting punished!!!

 

[Asa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFihyMdN5bs&feature=channel_video_title

critique? O:

 

[Neon Ness]

Really good use of Nair OOS. You had quite a few jab lock opportunities first match (I think I counted 3?) so be prepared to jab quickly after a dair to try and set that up, or try for a tech chase throw/PK Fire; throws are probably more useful, especially against Mario. I would say be careful about using PKF too much on him since it's fairly easy for him to SDI away and cape it before taking barely any damage. Also, careful about becoming predictable with PKT, it looks like you kind of fell into a pattern--as soon as he got knocked high into the air you'd immediately follow up with PKT, which got caped away most of the time. You can use stuff like this to your advantage though, if he's expecting a PKT maybe follow up with an uair instead to keep him guessing. No complaints about recovery, you saved your dj/PKT2 only for when it was necessary. Kind of a side note, but don't forget you can platform cancel on stages like Smashville so that can also be useful. If Mario wants to stay up there on the platform and sit on his shield, you can make use of platform cancel with Ness' dash grab to catch him off guard quickly. Good match overall.

Your last 2 stocks in the 2nd match were just... unfortunate, I'm not sure what specifically you could've done to avoid those. You already know this but it just came down to reading your opponent's edgeguarding patterns, and it looks like you just made some errors there. Mario's got a few ways to hamper Ness' recovery so just remember to make the most of your DI and recover high when you can. If you're stuck in a low position you can wallride with PKT2 to reach the ledge on Yoshi's, but I've always found the angle kind of tricky.

 

[Asa]

haha yeah i tried platform cancelling but i kept derping :/

thanks for the help!

 

[Susi]

Singles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTX4bMS9Dpg

Doubles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94cWniNTzqY

Critique if you want to But you can just watch if you are lazy

 

[Eagleye893]

Okay, for singles:

@11:15-whatev, *INAPPROPRIATE NOISES!!!!* That was so sexy. You don't even know. If he had recovered correctly, it still would've been PKT2 death. Dang nice work there. xD

I saw a couple of opportunities early on when went to the ground with an aerial and caused him to put his shield up, but you immediately went for an aerial again when you could have grabbed him or ftilt/dtilt poked him. Don't get TOO aerial happy, 'cause you can miss those opportunityes... but then again, being ground-heavy is a bad idea.

The one whiffed kill move was terrible.... ANYTHING could've killed him. EVEN NAIR! You should've just waited a bit and nair'd instead of bairing. The bair was a good idea, but two things wrong with it: wrong direction and mistimed on landing. You can work on timing the landing of bair more or you could just try and integrate more different moves in different situations.

You tried a LOT to z-grab those nanners, and most of the time you did that you instantly threw them away. The point of Ness having a banana is he's deadly if he places it just right. It's smart to throw it when the diddy is approaching in a semi-threatening manner, but otherwise you're more trying to make him approach in a way that you will always hit with the nanner and lead into some form of aerial/ground followup.
^^^^^
On another note with bananas, a bit better banana awareness. It seems you were getting hit by them more than you should've. Just be slightly more cautious when he has a banana and you're trying to land someplace.
^^^ANOTHER NOTE ON BANANAS!
One time in the second match, you caused him to airdodge down into a banana... you should've noted that you placed the banana there and gone down to cause him to slip on it if he managed to miss or just hit with a followup if he DID slip. Basically, you could've gotten some more percent. Try and not miss those opportunities.
^^^^
DO NOT JAB AFTER TRIPPING WITH A BANANA!!!!!!!! I saw that happen too much. You should always at least get off a Ftilt or DashAttack. Anything less is just not worth it. (by Dash Attack, I mean second and third hit only... that's always how it should be.)

okay.... I will spew my viewpoint on using grounded attacks now. NESS' GROUND GAME ISN'T BAD, IT'S JUST NOT AWESOME! dtilt and utilt have terrible range, but when you manage to get in that range, they're freaking hella useful. Ftilt has range, but it's slow. If you manage to hit with it, it's basically serving its purpose 'cause once it hits the knockback assures you won't get punished, and 10-12% is good for a quick hit. DashAttack has RANGE GALORE, but the problem is that it doesn't hit high at all; it's best at punishing landing and poking into shields with the last hit only at max range. JABS SUCK! Grabs for Ness are half of his ground game. If you can manage to get skillful enough to space a grab perfectly, landing them isn't much trouble; HIS DASH-GRAB IS GODLY! His pivot grab is really good. His shield-grab, you've gotta sort of know when it'll get the person, but you can use it effectively when someone hits your shield if you're good enough. I almost never use the smashes, but throwing them out randomly works sometimes.
Basically, Aerials aren't the only option. I see some people go with a SH Aerial instead of the assured ftilt/dtilt/utilt, and it frustrates me. Experiment with more Ftilt and Dtilt and you'll understand what I mean (dtilt has some crazy properties with some characters, such that if you trip them with one hit, you can mash dtilt once more without taking them out of trip animation, then follow up without a problem. If I had a wii, I'd make a tutorial of this in better explanation, b/c there are certain characters this works better for and certain situations this happens more often in [ie, MK you should only dtilt hit once, b/c he will always get hit by the fastest dtilt to come after it. Some characters if you space dtilt perfectly against, you can hit once and trip them and be able to dtilt once more without hitting them AT A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY, whereas if you were closer they would always get hit by the second dtilt. Samus' trip animation SUCKS for her. But then again, I get used to everyone else's trip animation so much that when I play a Samus, I miss a followup.])

^GETTING OFF OF THE TOPIC OF DTILT BEFORE I GO BACK THERE,
At around 11:30, you PKT'd him and got hit by fair immediately. There was no way out of that. Try not to use PKT that close. If you were just a bit further away, your shield would've come out in time, but then again there are other players who can SDI that PKT hit and get some really nice aerials on you.

That trip at the end sucked. :'(

One thing I note after re-watching is you accidentally rolled once when airdodging to the ground... I bet you know how to avoid doing that, but one tip that I got from playing around is that if you're airdodging to the ground, it's just infinitely better if you don't really touch too many buttons until a few frames before you hit the ground. Directional stuff you can continue with, but ensure that you're not still pressing shield or anything else. RANDOM, I bet it was a complete accident rolling there, so don't worry. Just noting.

Generally, you have a very good play-style. I like how you can get to your opponent most of the time and make them think about their next move. Also, your NAir spacing is GOOOOD. Obvious strength there. Just a couple things:

1.) Don't try to be too fancy with bananas. Just try and ensure that you can both trip and follow up with something.
2.) DON'T JAB! EVER! If anything Ftilt is always a better option for range and dtilt is better for the quick hit.
3.) General kill ranges for moves:

BAir: 120-130% (depends how stale... if so, maybe more %)
UAir: 110-140% (depends HIGHLY on weight and if stale.)
NAir: 140-155% (being closer to the side of the stage helps)
Ftilt: 150-160% (this is the certain percent range. Near the edge of the stage, 130-140% is almost certain)
Utilt: 150%-160% (depends on weight, but lightest characters can die around 140 if it's fresh)
BThrow: 125%-150% (if weighty, wait until like 145... it's not worth it if before that)
DSmash: 130-140% (I don't use it enough, but it seems to kill fairly consistently in this range... just be sure that you hit with the knockback part, 'cause it sucks if you don't)
USmash: 155-170% (not really worth using as a kill move...)
FSmash: 120-140% (Tipper bat reduces that percent by about 10)

^sometimes the person has insane DI. If he survives, YOU HAVE EVEN MORE OPTIONS TO KILL WITH! The best part about Ness: 6 moves as reliable kill options by 150%
4.) Using UAir and BAir on landing is awesome. My personal tidbit of info.
5.) Auto-Canceled DAir is ballin'. You can do some crazy **** with it. AC'd DAir > FH UAir is pretty easy to land unless the character has a really fast DAir... but then again, the only really way to avoid the UAir is if the DAir pops them up too high for the FH to reach with UAir immediately.... (more about this ramble later)




EDIT: @ASA, what region are you in? Your vid made me think you're awesome. I really like your NAir > FAir stuff. It's pretty tricky.
Only problem is that you SD'd on Yoshi's and Brinstar.... :'(

 

[Susi]

Yeah, thank you alot! Im trying to concentrate on your points before next tourney! Just, I sure know my kill percents... It just isn't easy to find an opening for them. Against Diddy, at least.
I always think about playing more on ground vs Diddy but I just kinda forget it during tourney matches <_<

Can't wait for your doubles critique. I feel I did better in those. :D

Btw, I love <33 dtilt vs. Falco!! :DD

 

[Eagleye893]

I'm a bit slow when it comes to replying with doubles critique. I've got some school **** to take care of, but I'll get to it sometime either tomorrow or saturday.

 

[V1cegrip]

the quality is pretty damn jumpy at a lot of points so sorry about that (from stream) but here is my set vs Z.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-uY1hXuqu0

 

[Eagleye893]

This is from me thinking gradually between classes.

@Vice: When you're ahead in percent or stock, never approach using FAir. You lost like 40% b/c you went in with FAir a bunch. In my experience, and from people telling me, your opponent WANTS you to use FAir because it's the most falsely safe attack. If ever you get a stock lead, approach only when you're 100% certain your attack will hit OR you won't have a chance of getting punished. BAir has little landing lag and good spacing to it, which is why I find it a better option near the ground. FAir going to the ground has a small downward range, which allows some characters to essentially hit you out of it without taking much damage at all. UAir and BAir are always better on landing, but NAir has it's uses on landing that can be a bit crazy.

I really like your pivot grabs. You land those insanely well.

Even better, I like your precision with DTilt > Bat. It worked a bunch for you b/c you used it at almost perfect times.

I'm not seeing many 3rd-hit-only DashAttacks. The "pop-up" effect of that move is vital. Try and space it differently for some new results. On shield, it's pretty difficult to get punished if you perfectly space the third hit.

AC'd DAir on shield is only great if you end up being behind your opponent. Even then, I only recommend using it if the hit is assured or if you're trying to move around the stage with speed. On shield is a bit risky for my blood.

UAir hit on landing > NAir, the NAir should be FH'd and retreated. The reason I say this is because you can either settle back down and get back to normal poke-in/poke-out maneuvering OR you can PK Jump/Aerial PK Fire. On BF, it doesn't really work, but it's better than risking too much. SH NAir is a bit iffy when you try and string something from it, because people with fast aerials like MK, Marth, Pika, Weegee, and some others can just hit you out of it, essentially negating the damage advantage you just got on them with that NAir. Against a snake, that NAir would've been perfect.


Stage Choice... WHY BF?!?! SV is always a better option. If not a neutral, Delfino or Halberd. Even if Halberd has a somewhat low top blast zone, Ness benefits from that too. UAir, UTilt, BThrow (sorta), BAir (sorta), PKT!
Those are my only 2 CP stages. Everyone bans Brinstar b/c that stage is too good for Ness, so I always pick Fino. If they ban Delfino, I either go Brinstar or Halberd OR SV. Delfino is such a good stage for Ness, even if you're going up against someone like D3. The placement of platforms allows for Ness to harass a bit without the danger of getting grabbed.

BF restricts both Aerial PKFires and AC'd DAir's from above. Also, other drop-down aerials. Part of the reason why I strike it.


@Susi (for your doubles game):

You should've left alone that snake for a bit and had you and your partner gang up on the Wario. You sorta stood there... Even if you didn't just stay there, you could've gone down with a NAir and put him in a position that is nearly impossible to recover from. Or after he teched with that C4, you could've just UAir'd him into the stage or something.

You missed a drop-down DAir when the snake was grabbing your partner... *facepalm* Make sure that you space those right. I think you could have even just gone with a FF Dropdown UAir, b/c he was well within kill percents for that. Either UAir or BAir. BAir might've spared your partner 5% of damage over the UAir (sourspot'd BAir FTW!).

Your team synergy with your partner is good. Whenever one person grabbed, you always did something to rack more damage on the guy being grabbed. Good stuff! xD
-- More later; gotta go to class.

 

[V1cegrip]

Thanks for the advice Eagle, that actually is really helpful to me. I'm trying to pick up on my bad habits and learn to think smartly again cause I think I am getting back into this game. I've almost persuaded myself to go buy a wii so that I can do wifi and improve. I managed to get a high placing at that tourney without practice I think because I was very focused and a friend beat me out of some bad habits in a short practice session like the day before. I'm hoping that if i practice I'll be at Fow's level soon.

I'll have to experiement more with dash attack and you are completely right about the uair to retreating nair thing. I tend to follow them after a nair hoping to net more damage but it doesn't usually work out against fast ariel charactersso I'll take that advice. Yea I love dtilt to bat, I don't even know why I decide to use it...in every situation you can jab and do other things but I guess it is just instinct...I'll have to pick that apart more because it really is a great option. I'm hoping a signature move of mine will be to kill with up angled forward tilt (first kill in first match) because it is hilarious and actually very very useful. I hope everyone begins to pick up on that move for landing hits in some situations as well as surprise kills. It is not just a gimmick because even people I play regularly with expect it and still get hit even when they try hard to avoid it.

As for Battlefield, I feel like Ness does very well with platforms to play around on so it is just the stage I feel most comfortable on. He did ban Brinstar you are right, would have gone there if not for the ban. Delfino is great and I beat X on there but I worry about picking that one because I would feel so dumb if pikachu got an early kill due to being near a walk-off (pikachu doesn't really kill early). Basically I felt that I was on his level and felt I could win on a stage I felt comfortable on...and I was just 1 backthrow away from being right. I will practice more on Delfino since everyone sings its praises. Maybe when I feel more comfortable there ZI won't worry so much about an opponent getting an unlikely but very possible early kill.

I don't prefer smashville...better than FD I suppose.

Also if I am ahead in percentage / stock what would you recommend for me to do? Just jump around doing retreating fairs? Jump around doing retrating bairs? Walk around? Jump around doing nothing? a mix of all of those? I agree that fair is risky when someone knows how to punish it...which is most people this late in the metagame. Z was actually incredibly exceptional at punishing my blocked arials and that is due to him being a good player and having extensive Ness practice (vegas with them 2 ness's).

 

[Eagleye893]

What I say to do when you're ahead is to Jump around and do either retreating BAirs on landing (meaning hit them or their shield just before you land, spacing it so the toes hit them) or just a bunch of AC'd DAirs a fair distance away.
I do the AC'd DAirs because it sort of baits the opponent. If they know what you're trying to do, they'll back away, which is when you sort of scoot up forward gradually. If they approach you, you begin to move backward with it and retaliate with either an aerial to get at them, PK Fire, DashAttack, or DashGrab. You want to make them come to you.

So a majority of the time, I say Jump around doing nothing with a couple scattered moves that will put pressure either on shield or just in general.
FH PK Fire is good for that purpose as well, but you have to place it so the firebolt gets near/at their toes so there's a minimal chance they can poke in with something fast.
DashGrab is good for when you are just close enough for an insta-dashgrab to get the opponent. Hence why I say to use the AC'd DAirs. You can get just a bit close and then close that extra bit of gap with a grab.
DashAttack, 3rd hit only is great on shield and in general. If you're baiting your opponent into doing something by hanging back a bit, You can poke in with the 3rd hit of DashAttack with RELATIVE success. If they perfect shield, you might be in a bit of trouble. If you're expecting them to perfect shield, DashGrab or FH PK Fire would probably have been better. either that or include getting the 2nd hit of DashAttack to hit.


The aerials that you use when acting campy while ahead are UAir, BAir and DAir, because they have little lag when used correctly.

AC'd DAir can be used with a SH but it's more effective with FH, because you can decide in that small amount of time to go with a different approach. That and when you use it SH'd, you stay near the ground and are certain to land there, meaning your opponent can predict that and time a good shield-dash to perfect-shield and punish. Something happened in your match with Z where you used SH FF Dair and pika just came in really quick with NAir before you could get the DAir off. Starting DAir up higher from the height of a FH makes it more difficult for someone to interrupt and punish.
When you hit the ground, there's some things you need to take into account to adapt to their response. If the opponent takes to the air before you get to the ground, you just go with a RAR BAir or UAir or ShieldDash, 'cause all of those cover each option that could be potentially used. Aerial? ShieldDash > OoS NAir or UAir or USmash. Airdodge? Wait a bit and get either UAir or BAir. Anything else? UAir's a really fast move with great range, which comes in handy there. Otherwise, waiting back or PKT > PKT2 away will do something sometimes. If they are still on the ground and within dashgrab range, I'd normally go for it. If they are on the ground and out of dashgrab range, you can either move back to get a perfectly spaced grounded PK Fire or continue with the AC'd DAirs and FH PK Fires.

UAir can be used on landing or anywhere really. If your opponent decides to go above you, this bad boy will make them wish they hadn't. FH UAir can chain into another UAir or BAir or NAir if used correctly at low percents. It's a matter of spacing the move that's the problem. Both upward and backward it has weird range, but once you get used to those ranges, it's pretty easy to either outspace or hit trade with lots of moves.
On Landing, UAir has just a bit less lag than BAir on landing. The one way it comes in handy more often than BAir on landing though is that it hits all around Ness, so if you accidentally don't RAR or whatever, you can just try for a UAir. I say it's still risky to do things like that though.

BAir on landing is AWESOME when your opponent is at low percents. If you manage to land a hit at like 0-10%, you get a free dashgrab on almost every character. I've done this so many times that I'm still wondering whether or not it is possible to punish. The reason is that BAir causes the opponent to float above the ground slightly, and an Airdodge can't initiate quickly enough before the dashgrab gets them. <The electrifying effect of BAir is why that works. Also, BAir's landing lag is so little if you manage to use it in the manner I described above.
This leads to some crazy trap tactics that I love. BAir > DThrow > (dashforward and read). After that dash forward, if they use an aerial, I shield and see if it's something my UAir can hit through. If not, I wait for it to hit shield and NAir out. If they airdodge, I either SH and wait so that I can land a BAir or regrab and start over again. If they use their second jump, I either PKT or FH after them and continue the reading process. Since Ness' FH gets so much height, if they DJ, there's a big chance that you will be near them and can either wait to use UAir or just wait for them to fall a little and get a BAir/FAir/NAir.... or you can FF back down and get a PKT or something, which I throw in there sometimes.

^essentially, those last two paragraphs with BAir and DThrow shenanigans are how I rack damage.

 

[V1cegrip]

Do you utilize uair oos? or do you unsheild and then uair. I find uair out of sheild to be very tricky on reaction. Essentially anytime you can hit with Uair oos you can hit with your natural nair oos but there are many times where I realize a uair would have been preferable but I just didn't have the reaction time/precision to do it.

 

[Eagleye893]

Do you utilize uair oos? or do you unsheild and then uair. I find uair out of sheild to be very tricky on reaction. Essentially anytime you can hit with Uair oos you can hit with your natural nair oos but there are many times where I realize a uair would have been preferable but I just didn't have the reaction time/precision to do it.

It's not really perfect. I Jump OoS then immediately UAir as I get out of the jump.... I've gotten to timing things pretty well, but the UAir isn't really for directly OoS hits. It's more for slightly OoS hits or at the top height of FH. If I try to UAir too low from OoS, I end up doing USmash like everyone else.

UAir is only better OoS sometimes. NAir will hit low in front of you, whereas UAir will hit low behind you, but the problem is that there should be very few times when there's someone low behind you, and BAir will always cover that spot slightly better. Upward, the delayed UAir will accomplish anything above what a regular NAir OoS will cover.

Just my experience. I need to test doing UAir OoS again.... I can't really test things so well b/c I don't have my wii in my dorm-room. If I did, I would be writing things down as I do them AND I would be taking videos to describe things. I'll get back to you on the UAir OoS by the end of tomorrow.

 

[JuanShotKill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zocHuBQnMSY&feature=youtu.be

Hey guys, this is a match between me and a Lucario. I want to know what you guys think (there's an amazing part at the end

 

[P.I.E.]

I'd watch, but the computer I'm using is trolling me T~T

 

[Eagleye893]

Woah. I'm not filling my normal role.

*CRITIQUES VID!*

Okay Juan. Le's do this!



Off the bat, I say something awesome: that BAir could've been followed up by a DSmash or Grab. You guys rolled at the same time, so the Grab would've been just short of getting him, but meh.
When I start off matches, I try to fish for a BAir, UAir, NAir, DAir or DashAttack. All of these can lead into another attack if done correctly.
Hitting with BAir just before Ness touches the ground gives an almost assured DashGrab. From the DashGrab, I normally go with DThrow for my trap tricks (against everyone but MK).
Hitting with UAir while landing gives a NAir or UTilt, but I often go with the UTilt in the off chance that my opponent is super quick. NAir combos into UAir at low percents up until like 20-something.
NAir leads to things through DAS stuff.
DAir pops people up perfect for free UAir follow-ups at early percents because they don't go up too high. BAir is a bit slower, but also probably at the low percent. Auto-Canceled DAirs are broken early on.
DashAttack pop's people up on the third hit, and I only go for the third hit when I use it. That pop-up, I looked into frame data and it almost always assures a NAir followup and very probably allows for a UAir followup.

Low percentage opponents give Ness potential to string moves together, and that "potential" is basically 100% on some characters.

Away from the beginning of a match/stock, let's look at other things you do.

Good that you're using AC'd DAirs. They are one of the things Ness mains must do perfectly every time, IMO. I just say use that more often. xD I use it when landing just b/c it's fun to do sometimes.

WAYYY too much grounded PK Fire. If you're going to use PK Fire, try FH PK Fire. If you hit, there's more potential to follow up afterward AND it's much more difficult to get punished (with FH PK Fire, the lag ends more quickly if you use NAir, UAir or AirDodge before hitting the ground; the aerials are basically there if the opponent stupidly rushes into you). I should take my own advice too. xP

MOMENTUM CANCEL! Whenever you're sent flying and might die, either NAir or BAir then FF. I saw you getting sent flying too many times without doing anything, and being in falling state isn't really what you want all the time. (there are exceptions) Also, one time, you used FAir instead of NAir/BAir, which didn't help you to live longer.

Try not to use FAir approaching and landing near your opponent. It almost never works b/c the hitbox is shortened for space you're trying to hit him in.
^Also, on that note, it's often good to just not use an aerial while landing or AirDodge to the ground. I AirDodge to the ground so that I can buffer a DashGrab or DashAttack to catch my opponent if he's in a bit of lag or putting up his shield too predictably. Delaying landing to try and bait your opponent into doing something stupid in chasing after you also helps, but only to an extent; Marth and MK, noteably, can destroy you if you try to PSI Magnet to stall your descent.

I saw that you tried to punish a spotdodge with a grab... I say just go with an FTilt or YoYo if you want to punish a spotdodge, b/c the hitbox lasts longer and they're pretty easy to space. Plus, 11% or 13% assured is always good. xD

I liked the one FSmash when you punished his landing. Nicely done. The problem I had was the FSmash that followed, which I'm assuming was meant to be like FAir or something. FAir would've worked better in that situation, but a UAir would've worked also. UAir almost always works.

Needs Moar PK Jump. You could've PK Jumped to close the distance safely in a couple situations.

Starting your opponent's second stock, he was charging his aura sphere and you FH'd. It would've been perfect to use FH PK Fire right there (PK Fire starting as you jump) so that you force him to shield and follow from there with either a rising aerial or something landing > whatever.

You should've absorbed so many of those Aura Spheres... I was that you didn't get many if any.

UAIR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAIR!
Why so many rising FAirs when you could just UAir him and make him sad? UAir makes everyone sad. It's just like "WHY IS YOUR HEAD SO BIG NESS?!?!? WHY DO YOU KEEP RACKING DAMAGE ON ME OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH THAT SAME MOVE?!?! " At least that's what I do. xP

I'm not seeing as much NAir as I'd like to see. There were some situations where a quick NAir would have at least reset the playing field and allowed you to regain footing. It's always nice to just get your opponent out of attacking you for a while and take a step back.

You used BThrow way too early on your first stock... twice.
I say DThrow or FThrow all the time until like 120%. The reason I DThrow is because of traps. (EXPLAINS THE TRAPS!)
On most characters, there's a way to annihilate them if you recognize the direction they DI toward early enough.
If they DI far out,

dash or walk after them. WALKING WORKS BEST IN THIS SITUATION! The next step depends on what they do. If they use their second jump, follow with a FH and judge where they go after that. If they are able to use an aerial that hits below them really quickly, don't jump up if they can hit you with that at your full FH height. If they can't hit you with that, FH and read.
FH and read all day. xD From that FH, you can either just go with a straight-up UAir or wait a bit and fall/FF waiting for them to do something. Since they're forced to fall, all you do is wait and/or read. If they airdodge, free punish. If they use an aerial, watch your spacing, then free punish. If they wait it out, just UAir and you'll hit them a majority of the time. If they trade hits, at least you got 11% on them.
If they don't use their second jump, they're going to the ground. This is difficult, b/c Ness only has 2 things that cover distance quickly on the ground: DashAttack and DashGrab. DashAttack doesn't hit very high, and DashGrab can be risky if they AirDodge just right or use the right aerial. I was thinking you could shield and use awesome OoS options, but I haven't gotten to testing that out completely.
​

If they DI so that they move directly above you, free FH UAir on most characters in the game. MK, Lucario, and a few floaty characters escape it, but almost everyone is just within range of the UAir. You have to time it right, but it's either a trade or a win. I've yet to try this out on EVERY character, but Ness' head is big enough to make me think that it hits a majority of the cast. It gets Luigi by trading with NAir or just winning some of the time, so I assume it's good.
If they DI anywhere between,

this is the tricky part. Some of the time you can do your initial dash and immediately FH out of it for a UAir, but sometimes they DI just far enough for that not to work. In that case, you can either use FAir or do the same baiting as from if they DI outward.​

Now that I've gotten that rant out of the way, moving on. I'll note some specific instances now.

@1:26-ish, the lucario used his aura sphere. You could've gone in with an AC'd Dair there and been pretty safe. If he goes up with UAir, he either trades or loses. FAir wouldn't reach if you space it right.
Also, the timing of that BAir was off. I say try to get it perfectly so that you land immediately after the BAir comes out every time. That makes BAir nearly un-punishable if you do it correctly, especially if you do it retreating.
@0:08, you punished the FSmash with FAir. NAir would have hit, and UAir might've hit. The FAir wasn't really the best option because a.) you were using it while landing, subjecting yourself to landing lag, and b.) either other option would have done more damage. With this situation, it's more knowing the lag on your opponent's moves. You could've been going for a NAir in that situation and made an input error, and in that situation I say to try and fix those input errors.
@0:12, you used that DAir perfectly. An Ftilt could've gotten in just before Lucario's FSmash, but from that point you AirDodged, which works well. From there, you jabbed. Jabbing is probably Ness' worst method of punishing. UTilt or DTilt are much better quick options. DTilt, you have the potential of tripping and can follow up with something else really quickly as opposed to jabbing. UTilt is fairly well ranged and just puts your opponent above you, which is nice in most cases. Against Lucario, maybe not, but oh well.
@0:27, you used your DJ above Lucario. It's my opinion that you should never use your second jump unless absolutely necessary. You could've taken hold of the ledge with some PKT stalling method or just AirDodge'd to the ground. From that Airdodge, DashAttack and DashGrab would've been awesome choices.
Oh, that reminds me, When your opponent is landing, USE DASH ATTACK! It works. ONLY TRY TO HIT WITH THE SECOND AND THIRD HITBOXES THOUGH! The first hitbox is garbage.
@0:59, a PK Fire falling down would've at least forced him to shield, preventing the landing punish. Either that or just move backward and grab the ledge. Ness is pretty good on ledge.

Try not to roll with Ness. His rolls aren't that great. There are some situations where they work, but it often leads to bad things.

I think that's all for now.

EDIT: Oh, FAir is terrible on shield. Most of Ness' Aerials aren't great on shield actually. BAir is best, UAir second, and DAir third, if you know where and when and how to use it.

 

[P.I.E.]

^ I love your critiques ^~^ I always learn something new from it

 

[Eagleye893]

I can work out almost every single situation to the point where I know what to do, but my execution within a match is inconsistent and often terrible.

Imma upload some stuff for the sake of showing you what I mean by inconsistent execution (and potentially some critique from other ppls)



http://youtu.be/Y78-TQE6UUw
http://youtu.be/WyLhhShFupM
http://youtu.be/hdSjapYc_qA
http://youtu.be/RDCPVQOKjGQ
http://youtu.be/stY2MrCCj1A
http://youtu.be/OJqy8TGw7qw

These all have mah voice. xD