Ness Moved Up!!!

[ViceGrip]

Ness has finally achieved recognition by climbing the tier list a 5 whole places! He's not below Lucas anymore haha, took long enough eh? This actually really brightens my day, what do you all think of this? Do you think he should be higher, lower, or is where he's at just about right? I think that he definitely has room to climb but I am just stoked to seem him finally break free and move up a few spots. Discuss.

edit: I thought I was the first Ness person to notice the new tier list but I see that it was posted in the general discussion thread. This can be locked if you guys wanna discuss it there instead.

 

[Meccs]

I almost broke my mouse clicking the back button (I saw this title after I clicked another topic).

about time! Yay Ness :D

 

[Sync_]

Rofl at the bottom tier consisting of only Zelda characters.

Yay for Ness. E TIER :3

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ness can't be used in low tier tourneys any more.

That's good for Lucas :3

 

[Today]

D: Looks like I need to find a new low tier main~
Also, Hylian Tier is depressing. TT__TTv I can't believe Sakurai did that on purpose.. a little too mean..

But congrats, Nessers!!

 

[Yink]

I'm quite happy about this! Way to go Nesses!

 

[Eagleye893]

..... i hope that illinois includes bottom mid tier in low tier tourneys.....

good job for those of you who place well.....

Now to get high mid tier we all need to use PSI Magnet as much as possible.... XD

 

[Trips707]

Its good to see Ness finally getting what he deserves.
I can't say the same thing for Zelda though...

Seems like Courage, Wisdom, and Power have finally come together to form the legendary fail tier.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Ha ha, two of my mains rise in the tier list, (Marth and Ness), while two of my most used secondaries dropped, (Ike and ROB). †

 

[Chuee]

Ness can't be used in low tier tourneys any more.

That's good for Lucas :3

I swear the next time I hear this....................................
Oh well, I think he should be lower but oh well he got REALLY good placings between the two tier lists so thats probably why.

 

[Uffe]

I'm confused. Could someone post up the new tier list?

 

[Chuee]

Go to tactical.

 

[Uffe]

My boy has finally become a low-mid tier character. I feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[Sync_]

Uffe <3!
I missed you.

 

[Bartolon]

YESZ. Lets get him to mid-mid now :D

 

[Chuee]

Too bad that isn't happening >:D

 

[kennypu]

Too bad that isn't happening >:D

I know, because we're making him into top tier :]

 

[Chuee]

You wish, Ness mains.

 

[Sync_]

Chuee is the biggest downer in the world.

 

[kennypu]

i know right -.- nothing positive to say.

 

[Sync_]

i know right -.- nothing positive to say.

So did the tsunami hit yet? Is everything alright?

 

[Katakiri]

Eh, as a PT main, I could never take Ness seriously. (2/3 pokemon have Zero-death GR on Ness. (Lucas is lucky he slides far...<-<))
But, I have noticed he's been getting tougher and tougher when I use anyone else.

So nice job! ^^b

 

[Chuee]

because Ness isn't becoming high tier.

 

[kennypu]

Eh, as a PT main, I could never take Ness seriously. (2/3 pokemon have Zero-death GR on Ness. (Lucas is lucky he slides far...<-<))
But, I have noticed he's been getting tougher and tougher when I use anyone else.

So nice job! ^^b

a good ness will know how to deal with the chaingrabs. of course it is very hard to avoid, but by staying near the edge at most times, we can avoid being chained across the stage. Either way it is really hard to fight marth, pt. etc. so yea :3. you win. LOL

 

[Eagleye893]

near ledge is (IMO) the best spot for ness to be..... especially if you can use ness' PSI Magnet well.... wavebounce madness......

and are they assured 0-death, or 0-lots of damage? i think there isn't an assured spike out of a GR with those characters.....

Marth!!! that will be ness' biggest obstacle to get around..... any good marth will just destroy ness if they know what to do. PSI MAGNET DOESN'T DO ANYTHING HELPFUL AGAINST MARTH!!! IT ACTUALLY PUTS YOU INTO TIPPER RANGE!!!

 

[Kole]

I thought w/ Squirtle and Charizard you had to small step forward -> regrab?

 

[Chuee]

You do, but it's still almost an infinite.

 

[OfTheEarth]

i was reading somewhere, i forget
that him and bowswer can still be used in low tier tournys
because they've still been in low tier for the most of their life span in brawl
so..

 

[Uffe]

I think because they're low-mid tier, they can still be used in a low-tier tourney. I recall some characters from mid-tier being used in a number of low-tier tourneys. Ness is still mid-tier either way.

 

[Calebyte]

LOL @ Ness moving above Mario!

Makes sense though, I'm pretty sure Ness does better overall than Mario has been lately. Congrats guys!

 

[Uffe]

LOL @ Ness moving above Mario!

Makes sense though, I'm pretty sure Ness does better overall than Mario has been lately. Congrats guys!

Thanks, Mario man! I seriously do think Mario deserves to be further up on the list, though.

 

[Yink]

I second Mario being higher.

 

[ViceGrip]

Yea Mario definitely deserves to be higher and zelda is NOT third worst( lol tri-force tier). I think Ness has room to grow and I think it should be our goal to at least reach the middle of mid tier down the road. Marth is the main obstacle to this (not because of the 'death' grab, just because he beats Ness's spacing so badly when played correctly). I see Bowser moving even farther down the tier list in the future. As a side note I entered a mid tier tournament yesterday and got 1st! Yay for ness being mid/low now hehe. http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=8896

It's so nice that we can finally celebrate our character moving up a bit. I honestly didn't think the backroom would ever take a serious look at Ness, even despite tourney results.

 

[Spelt]

ness will always be low tier in my heart.

<3

 

[Katakiri]

I thought w/ Squirtle and Charizard you had to small step forward -> regrab?

Squirtle has to just hold forward while spamming the grab button. He actually pulls you in and stays in place. He can do it as long as he wants then D-Throw for the kill.

Charizard doesn't have to step forward at all. He just has to spam grab. (Longest non-tether grab + standing regrab = easiest CG & the game) Though Charizard does move forward on his own each grab so I guess it's not a true zero death, but if he gets you to a high enough percent before reaching the ledge (100+ depending on fatigue), he gets a free sweet-spotted d-tilt kill.


As much as I love using Ness *coughinmeleecough* I wish some Lucas mains would step-up and rep him. (not like he's a good character, but even Jiggz has SOME rep) No offense, but Lucas just seems better than Ness in every way. (Except Ness is a total bad***) Higher damage out-put, higher knockback, faster F-Smash, way better recovery, harder to chain grab, more versatile projectiles, longer disjoints, and HIS UP-TAUNT IS THE BIGGEST MIND GAME EVER!

Spoiler

"Oh he tripped! Time to tech chase that SHI- *f-smashed*"

I had a long discussion on Skype with NinjaLink and MBlaze about this earlier and none of us see why he's better. I REALLY want to know what makes Ness better? Like seriously SOMEONE tell me! I'm not even talking sarcastically. I want to know out of pure interest. What's in his backpack that makes him a hero?!
That may sound like trolling but I'm dead serious. I'm gonna search this board for an answer. It's bugging me for no real reason.

 

[ViceGrip]

Lucas may have more overall damage output and a better recovery as well has having powerful smashes but when you put both characters into practice (instead of just discussing them on paper) Ness comes out on top. Why is this? Ness has much better zoning tools than Lucas (Primarily the fair) and although it may seem that Lucas has an easier time killing than Ness this simply is not true because Ness has more killing options, as well as most of those options being much more reliable than lucas's. For example, Ness has his bthrow which when combined with one of the best dash grabs in the game (and a very good pivot) is a very difficult move to avoid. Beyond his throw Ness can land both bair and uair for kills around 120% and considering Ness can do BOTH a bair and a uair in a single short hop it is not uncommon for a backthrow to be completely unnecessary to land kills with for sets at a time. Around 150% the options of ftilt, nair, and utilt all allow for quick reliable kills (of course Lucas has kills moves around this percent as well such as fair, uair, and his throw but I was just pointing out all the options that people don't normally think about because his bthrow is so infamous and reliable).
Beyond reliable kill moves and spacing tools there is a lot more to say for why ness is considered better than Lucas (besides tourney results/player rep.). I would go more into detail but I've gotta get to bed and those are the two most important overall differences in my opinion. Other things i would mention are primarily that ness's air game is just so top notch that it allows him to pressure, zone, combo, and kill incredibly well as compared to lucas's. I understand Lucas's ariels combo well and do large amounts of damage but compared to Ness Lucas has a harder time getting in an opponents face in order to sneak in those combos due to his ariels not being the best for approaching (low horizontal range on all but fair to my understanding). As far as projectiles go I wouldn't rate Lucas's above Ness's...they are just used for different things. Ness''s fire is used for starting combo's/ creating opportunities and spacing meanwhile Lucas's is an even greater spacing tool used to chip away at the opponent. Thunder is used as an edgeguarding tool for both characters but Ness's is more useful for racking up damage overall (even though Lucas's does more damage when it connects) because when controlled well it is very hard for an opponant to avoid due to it's speed and tail length. This is pretty disorganized and I apologize for that but i hope this blurb of information/opinion has proven useful.

 

[Eagleye893]

Good box of text, vice! Well put.

You forgot that the psi magnet wind push is awesome for mindgames.... Oh well...

Ok, now everybody start throwing in wavebounced psi magnet into your game.... It's awesome.

 

[Xebenkeck]

The only other thing i would add to ViceGrip, is that ness has a huge advantage when it comes to landing grabs over lucas, having a tether-grab IMO is a detriment in this game, where Ness has the fastest set of grabs in the game, 6 frames standing, 8 frames dashing and 6 frames pivot.

 

[Dajayman]

Get blob of text'd Ness doubters. XD

 

[ViceGrip]

Eagle i've seen your videos and i'm a big fan of the significant distance ness gains from the B-sticked psi magnet. Good for spacing and fooling people (similiar to how snakes use c4 to throw off their opponents when he is trying to return to the stage) but is there any way to use it without having to set my c-stick to special? I need the c-stick for OOS usmash (which is just discovered existed like 5 days ago, eff my life) and dtilt trip> to bat for a true combo. Yea Ness's grab is really THAT good. I feel kinda silly when all three stocks happen by getting a grab but it's too good to not abuse hehe.