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Ness Moved Up!!!

Eagleye893

Eagleye893

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I don't have my c-stick on special.... i just have quick fingers XD

okay, with my testing, you can wavebounce by holding backwards and initiating a special attack (but this is irrelevant if you don't have cstick to special... just a piece of info)

it takes a bit of practice. In my mind, its a really quick movement of down to neutral to backwards on the analog stick..... the way i did it was just go into practice mode, jump around and spam psi magnet, trying to do the above..... another thing is to run off a platform and as soon as you are off use downb and press backward immediately..... but my favorite is when you are on a ledge, use a getup-jump and time a downb to initiate .... at some point above the ledge and press backwards to wavebounce it....

BASICALLY: Practice.... thats all i can say. Down to neutral to backwards in a swift-as-**** motion.

I have videos up? i never noticed. could you show me?
 
Uffe

Uffe

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ViceGrip said:
Yea Mario definitely deserves to be higher and zelda is NOT third worst( lol tri-force tier). I think Ness has room to grow and I think it should be our goal to at least reach the middle of mid tier down the road. Marth is the main obstacle to this (not because of the 'death' grab, just because he beats Ness's spacing so badly when played correctly). I see Bowser moving even farther down the tier list in the future. As a side note I entered a mid tier tournament yesterday and got 1st! Yay for ness being mid/low now hehe. http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=8896

It's so nice that we can finally celebrate our character moving up a bit. I honestly didn't think the backroom would ever take a serious look at Ness, even despite tourney results.
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Way to represent that Ness of yours, ViceGrip! Also, I agree with what you said about Zelda. As for Marth, despite the fact he has a death grab on Ness, the match up is a lot better now than it was in Melee because of his slight nerf and Ness' buff.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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Blazing, Lucas is just simply awful. I mean Ness has got his fair share of problems. (Bad range, Grab releases, trouble approaching etc)

But Lucas has even MORE problems. (can't list them, everything is so fuzzy...) and Ness can feasibly avoid being grabbed, while Lucas honestly cannot say that.

About Ness being in mid. This thread. This board. My post count. All of that, has been dedicated to Ness. (I honestly haven't done that much, but I can say that I undertook in some of this boards rich historic events. The great war of Mario's. [Speaking of Mario he should higher.])

Lots of fun.

PS: Vice Grip is my hero.
 
Chuee

Chuee

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PKNintendo said:
Blazing, Lucas is just simply awful. I mean Ness has got his fair share of problems. (Bad range, Grab releases, trouble approaching etc)

But Lucas has even MORE problems. (can't list them, everything is so fuzzy...) and Ness can feasibly avoid being grabbed, while Lucas honestly cannot say that.
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Terribly wrong.

EDIT:
@Vicegrip: Ness having more kill options ehh not really true.
The problem with Bthrow is that your opponent KNOWS what you're gonna do, which allows them to DI really well or with characters like G&W bucket brake.
When you take into account gimping Lucas' killing is about as good.
Ness' air game really isn't that much better than Lucas'. Ness' is overall better horizontally, but vertically Lucas wins. Lucas covers himself much better when above an opponent than Ness does. Lucas has a better ground game, more options and range. Ness' PKT is more of a juggling tool than it is an edgeguarding tool. PKT's upward knockback and AD punisher is more usefull in juggling. Lucas' PK fire is a better camping tool, and is harder to avoid and punish.
Ness being able to avoid grabs better is false. Lucas can also use retreating Fairs and has an enourmous amount of safe on block moves.
I can't remember all you said being on a different page =/

EDIT2: Lucas overall has a better shield pressure game than Ness. Like almost all of Lucas' viable moves can shield pressure. Right, Ness approaches better. Ness' PKT does not do more damage as an edgeguard, wtf. Ness' disappears after hitting with the head while Lucas' doesn't.

Pretty much
Lucas is better at:
Recovering
Gimping
Camping
Ground range

Equal at:
Combos
Killing

Ness is better at:
Juggling
Approaching
Horizontal range

Im sure theres more, I dont remember.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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Chuee said:
Terribly wrong.
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It's all a big blur but I remember a few guys (and me) leading the great revolution that Ness>>>>Lucas.

Hell I remember Edrees Pieces (Peach mained that seconded Ness and was really good) helped in the effort.

But as of now I'm basically a scrub. I haven't been to the vBrawl boards in ages. I have next to knowledge of the current game. All of this is just memory.

And hey, Ness is flawed too, but just not AS flawed as Lucas.
 
Delta-cod

Delta-cod

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Chuee, I'm not gonna lie.

If Lucas is so much better than Ness, then why does he have so little rep? I hear more about Ganon than I do Lucas. Yoshi has more people repping him than Lucas. Why are players avoiding Lucas? Good characters attract players, so something must be telling players to stay away from Lucas.

Here's an example: At Viridian City 7, just last Saturday, I friendlied Ninja Link. At first, he went Lucas. I gave him 97 damage while taking only less than 20% before he quit and switched to ROB. I then proceeded to get ***** by ROB, but that's not relevant.

At Powerplay Gaming, just a few months ago, I played Zucco's Ness to get a better feel for the MU. Those were much closer, and I consider myself better at the MU than the Lucas MU.

Zucco had many more tools to kill me, approach me, rack up damage, and what have you. Lucas's camp is easy to avoid, forcing him to approach, and he cannot approach well. Horizontal range is more important than vertical range when approaching, and as a result, Ness has better approaches than Lucas, and Lucas needs to approach.
 
Chuee

Chuee

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No offense, but NL's Lucas isn't really that great. Using him to compare the two is just..................stupid. He plays Lucas really odd anyways.
Lucas can camp better because his projectile isn't just "SH and claim your free hit" Avoiding someones projectile doesn't necessarily force them to approach. Not to mention magnet, which also makes his camping a lot better. Correction, he cannot approach well against certain characters. Those being Snake, D3, and a few others.
As for rep, good players go after top tier characters. Most people that pick up low tiers aren't top players when they pick the character up. That's really just Ness being more popular.
 
Delta-cod

Delta-cod

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Most good characters can out camp Lucas. PKF is not good at limiting approaches, meaning that all someone has to do is walk and shield until they get to Lucas. He can't retreat PKF forever, and when someone gets the lead on him, he has to approach, which he can't do very well due to a lack of good horizontal range. Any character with an acceptable horizontal range can stuff Lucas's approaches.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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Chuee said:
No offense, but NL's Lucas isn't really that great. Using him to compare the two is just..................stupid. He plays Lucas really odd anyways.
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Hey, i'm a big fan of his Lucas.

Lucas can camp better because his projectile isn't just "SH and claim your free hit" Avoiding someones projectile doesn't necessarily force them to approach. Not to mention magnet, which also makes his camping a lot better.
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Ness honestly doesn't even use his projectiles much. PKF is terrible on him and PKT is situational. How does the magnet boost Lucas (albeit rather poor) camping game exactly?

Correction, he cannot approach well against certain characters. Those being Snake, D3, and a few others.
Click to expand...
Oh there's much, much more. Lucas has a terrible approach. It's simply awful.

As for rep, good players go after top tier characters. Most people that pick up low tiers aren't top players when they pick the character up. That's really just Ness being more popular.
Click to expand...

I disagree. They're plenty of great Ness players that can match up with even the best of them. F.O.W, VICEGRIP and the like. Popularity honestly doesn't have that much to do with it. Dedication and potential is key here. Which both Ness and Ness players have in spades.
 
Chuee

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Most good characters? lol
PKF is not meant to limit approaches. Walking and shielding until you get to me is approaching. If you don't move forward at all while shielding it, I can move forward in the air with a FH PKF before I use PKF and I'll never run out of space. Lucas' horozontal range really doesn't get outranged that often. Even if they get outranged Dair still works.
No his approach is not awful. It's better than Kirby's.
No, I mean top players don't use Ness, top players don't pick Ness when they're already a top player.
 
Chuee

Chuee

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Dajayman said:
You think anything in Lucas' arsenal is better for approaching than Kirby's bair?
Click to expand...
Lucas' Fair has more range than Kirby's bair, and since horizontal range means everything in approaching (from Delta) Lucas would have better approaches than Kirby.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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Chuee said:
Lucas' Fair has more range than Kirby's bair, and since horizontal range means everything in approaching (from Delta) Lucas would have better approaches than Kirby.
Click to expand...
It doesn't work that way.
And I thought it was basic knowledge Lucas approach was god awful.
 
Delta-cod

Delta-cod

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Well, Kirby has the ability to kind of hover at that 45 degree angle that is tough to defend for so many characters.

Though both their approaches are god awful, imo. I can camp Kirby all day long. At least Lucas has the annoying PKF.
 
D

Dajayman

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At least Kirby has his little grab shenanigans on almost everybody (that fthrow, uair, regrab s***) when he gets a successful approach.

I like going offtopic. This is now a Kirby vs. Lucas thread! Gogogo!!! XD
 
Wave⁂

Wave⁂

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Holy crap, five places? That's like Articuno being banned to Uber.

Also, hai Ness boards. Where are all the old people?
 
milesg2g

milesg2g

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I can't say I agree w/ his Placing on the list.
I feel as if he should be higher lol but w.e he might change after this tier list for the good.
Now people can't stop thinking i use Ness for Lowtier respect.
I use him because he's ****ing awesome lol.
 
NessBrawler

NessBrawler

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I'm.........h..a...p..p...y
It's nice to see ness back up, nice to be back on these boards too
 
D

Dajayman

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I'm a bit old, in both age and join date. I did come here before Brawl was released (didn't even know Brawl was coming out when I joined, I joined for 64) and I'm 20, so I'm pretty much middle aged.
 
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