Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...

[Sabrewulf238]

I really can't believe this, from the people who need tons of proof before they believe anything.

As soon as this update comes along (which doesn't really say ness is out) everyone believes it.

If "until now" is so important, why isn't it mentioned on every language site? It isn't by the way. I suppose sakurai expects people who can't speak english to guess?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I really can't believe this, from the people who need tons of proof before they believe anything.

As soon as this update comes along (which doesn't really say ness is out) everyone believes it.

If "until now" is so important, why isn't it mentioned on every language site? It isn't by the way. I suppose sakurai expects people who can't speak english to guess?

The Spanish site doesn't say until now. It says "In previous editions of Smash" which is more deconfirming as it is less vague.

It's not the up until now. It's the wording. The up until now in the english site, the ima made in the japanese site, the previous editions of Smash in Spanish... etc.

They wanted Ness out in Melee. The wording. Lucas getting his specials. Why would we believe Ness is not out?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I just believe until Sakurai says" Ness is not in brawl" everyone shouldn't be overreacting, I'll admit it looks very bleak for Ness at the moment but until Sakurai says it's true, people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

.......I would love it if Ness was revealed this week or the next, you'd almost be able to hear jaws dropping all over this thread.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I just believe until Sakurai says" Ness is not in brawl" everyone shouldn't be overreacting, I'll admit it looks very bleak for Ness at the moment but until Sakurai says it's true, people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

.......I would love it if Ness was revealed this week or the next, you'd almost be able to hear jaws dropping all over this thread.

I would throw a party. Free booze at my house if Ness is revealed.

 

[DekuBoy]

Hell yeah!
I AM IN DENIAL. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT ?!?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If being in Denial means not falling so easily for something that isn't Definite (ness's deconfirmation) Then I'd rather be in Denial!

 

[DekuBoy]

yeah! NESS WILL RETURN AND PUT LUCAS IN HIS PLACE!

 

[prettymanfairy]

yeah! NESS WILL RETURN AND PUT LUCAS IN HIS PLACE!

Except Ness has no meteor smash.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I just believe until Sakurai says" Ness is not in brawl" everyone shouldn't be overreacting, I'll admit it looks very bleak for Ness at the moment but until Sakurai says it's true, people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

.......I would love it if Ness was revealed this week or the next, you'd almost be able to hear jaws dropping all over this thread.

He shouldn't have to say it again. People try to back up that Ness might still be in due to the translations that are not all the exact same, but their meaning is all the same. I have said it multiple times... the wording he used was clearly an exclusive statement, not an inclusive statement.

Usage of "up until now":

*pretend Sakurai reveals a character*

There were 23 characters, up until now. There are now 24 characters.

"Up until now" clearly describes something in the past. That basically SAYS, in a straightforward manner, that he was in Smash Brothers, and now he isn't.

Even disregarding the fact Sakurai has said Ness is not in Brawl, he did not plan on having Ness in Melee in the first place. But... it's pointless posting here. All the arguments have been made and people are still in denial. Late January/Early February once all of the characters are seen in game, people will see.

 

[Drake3]

I don't know why people are expecting Sakurai to say "Ness is not in Brawl". That doesn't deserve an update. We'll see in February that Ness is indeed, not in Brawl.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I lol at your sig Drake3. XD

Though I disagree with the poster. That kick can really mess up your opponent if hit in the right direction.

On Topic:

Ness DOES have a meteor smash. It's his aerial Down A (back in 64, it was almost the equivalent of Falco's spike from Melee).

Somehow it doesn't feel right to have two more characters that look like each other... :/ But I guess it won't hurt to have more.

 

[EricShiznit]

There is no way Ness would get a new moveset while Lucas gets the old one. Lucas is obviously favored by Sakurai, so if a new moveset were created, it'd probly be his.

Also, I think all can agree Dr. Mario is probably out. But Sakurai obviously isn't going to write "Dr. Mario is no longer in Brawl," in an update. There's no reason he'd do so for Ness either. Ness obsessors are going to be whining all the way to the release date.

 

[lethminite]

だから、いままでのシリーズでもかならず
“ハンディキャップ”を付けられるようにしていました。
So until now, I’ve always made sure to include handicaps in each game in the series.

imamade is used here again, and this time the use is confirmed as exclusive.
he's changed the handy cap system, so they are NOT in like before.

this shows that imamade was not a mistranslation to "until now"
unless you can get a Japanese language major or something to explain how it's not the same use of the word(s) i'd say ness is 100% finished.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

LOL @ Lucas being the handicap sample

 

[shadenexus18]

Geeze Sakurai....atleast make him a costume of Lucas or an AT. Don't just brush your hands with him just because you see something better. I mean c'mon that's just not right. He was an original N64 Smash secret character for goodness sakes.

Ness (Smash Veteran)>>>>>>> Lucas (Smash Noobie)

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i cant wait to try out the new pk thunder can you?^_^

 

[Smile Guy]

I just believe until Sakurai says" Ness is not in brawl" everyone shouldn't be overreacting, I'll admit it looks very bleak for Ness at the moment but until Sakurai says it's true, people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

But Sakurai's not going to say something is he. It'd be like posting an update about how a stage isn't in the game. It would make no sense.

Sometimes, you just don't get direct facts. Sometimes you've got to think a bit for yourself. Truth be told, if you won't such a big Ness fan would you really be so adamant that he might still be in.

I'm gonna look forward to that thread in February that starts *****ing about Sakurai not including Ness in Brawl... actually, no, I'm really, really not, but I'll gaze at it with a grim smile at least.

 

[Cinder]

^Y'know, I'm not a huge Ness fan, but I don't see the logic in assuming he has to be out...I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that he has to be in, jus' sayin' that based on a few words (which could be misconstrued), you can't assume he has to be gone...

Personally, I don't care if Ness is in or out...I'm thinking of maining Lucas, so w/e...I'm just prepared for it to go either way...

 

[Legolastom]

Considering the update explicitly implied that he wouldn't be in AND he is a clone of Ness AND the fact that Sakurai wanted to replace him with Lucas before Brawl is more than enough evidence to condemn him.

 

[NukeA6]

Ness would be a waste of a character slot. There are more deserving characters.

 

[error_alt_delete]

Ness would be a waste of a character slot. There are more deserving characters.

now that lucas is in at least.

 

[OysterMeister]

Considering the update explicitly implied that he wouldn't be in AND he is a clone of Ness AND the fact that Sakurai wanted to replace him with Lucas before Brawl is more than enough evidence to condemn him.

Lucas isn't a clone of Ness. They share three moves, at least two of which work pretty differently. In Melee, Mario and Luigi shared way more moves than this, since they shared a few standard moves too.

I think that's what most Ness supporters are holding on to: that Lucas isn't a clone of Ness, he's just similar. And it makes sense that they'd be similar, given their near-identical roles in their respective games. If Sakurai really wanted to replace Ness, why did he bother to make a new moveset? Where's the sense in cutting one unique moveset just to spend time creating another, similar new moveset?

 

[Chaosblade77]

Lucas isn't a clone of Ness. They share three moves, at least two of which work pretty differently. In Melee, Mario and Luigi shared way more moves than this, since they shared a few standard moves too.

I think that's what most Ness supporters are holding on to: that Lucas isn't a clone of Ness, he's just similar. And it makes sense that they'd be similar, given their near-identical roles in their respective games. If Sakurai really wanted to replace Ness, why did he bother to make a new moveset? Where's the sense in cutting one unique moveset just to spend time creating another, similar new moveset?

Really, Lucas has Ness's moveset with a few enhancements, not a totally new moveset. Just look at it, would you rather use Ness's normal B or Lucas's, which can freeze?

Ness is too similar, in my opinion, and if another Mother character got in it would be Claus... not because I support Claus, but because he has more unique moveset potential and is another rep for Mother 3, which is supposedly going to be translated and put on the Wii shop.

 

[OysterMeister]

Really, Lucas has Ness's moveset with a few enhancements, not a totally new moveset. Just look at it, would you rather use Ness's normal B or Lucas's, which can freeze?

Lucas has his own moveset, not Ness'. Sakurai said that all of Lucas' standard moves are different, and he even proves it by showing a few smashes, an arial, and a tether recovey. There are far more standard moves than special moves. Calling Lucas a clone because of three moves is like calling Metaknight a Kirby clone because they share the same throws.

Ness is too similar, in my opinion, and if another Mother character got in it would be Claus... not because I support Claus, but because he has more unique moveset potential and is another rep for Mother 3, which is supposedly going to be translated and put on the Wii shop.

I never heard anything about plans to take Mother 3 outside of Japan, although I suppose if Lucas does well enough in Brawl...

Really though, I like the idea of two similar-yet-still-unique characters (although, Luigi is one of my mains, so perhaps I'm biased). I'd love to see a Ness vs. Lucas match, or better yet Ness and Lucas on a team sending co-ordinated PK thunders at people. That would be awesome.

 

[GenG]

Lucas isn't a clone of Ness. They share three moves, at least two of which work pretty differently. In Melee, Mario and Luigi shared way more moves than this, since they shared a few standard moves too.

The moves could act the same even if they had different animations.

So what if Lucas does a flipkick and Ness waved his big hands? The moves could have the same range, priority, damage and knockback. The animation is just different.

It's a way to keep Lucas fresh while replacing Ness.

 

[the grim lizard]

It would be nice if Lucas had a hat, though.

 

[silver777]

It would be nice if Lucas had a hat, though.

What?!? you want his cool hair hidden from us?!

 

[KingBoo]

i didnt really like ness, but seeing as he was in the last 2 it seems stupid for him not to be in brawl

also it would be nice to see them use their pk powers on each other

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Sometimes, you just don't get direct facts. Sometimes you've got to think a bit for yourself. Truth be told, if you won't such a big Ness fan would you really be so adamant that he might still be in.

Me? A big ness Fan? Not really(He's ok) I'm just posting what I see as the truth.

I wouldn't really care if ness wasn't in, I'd easily switch to Lucas, I'm just looking at the facts and the facts say that it doesn't look good but he's far from deconfirmed.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Me? A big ness Fan? Not really(He's ok) I'm just posting what I see as the truth.

I wouldn't really care if ness wasn't in, I'd easily switch to Lucas, I'm just looking at the facts and the facts say that it doesn't look good but he's far from deconfirmed.

Thanks non-fans for helping us fans feel better (not that I need it, but thanks anyway).

 

[Hong]

i didnt really like ness, but seeing as he was in the last 2 it seems stupid for him not to be in brawl

Pardon my ignorance, but if you don't like the character than why would it matter? Those who don't know who Ness is outside of SSB and Melee won't know anything more than his appearance. Replacing him with a similar character to such a person is only a aesthetic shift. I mean, they could just tell them "This is Ness with a new look" and they'd buy it without a word.

I never understood why there are people who so despise the idea of Ness being removed yet they don't know who he is or even like the character. Do you just want them there for the sake of having him there, or do you want him there because you enjoyed his character as well as his game? I can understand people wanting Ness because they liked EarthBound. But anyone else is just beyond me.

 

[TheOfficialSonicFanboy]

To respond to lunadis, I can point one thing out about Ness's participation in Smash Bros:
It introduced some ignorant players (such as me) to Earthbound/Mother, a series I now really do like.
Also, I knew many people who had no idea what Fire Emblem was until Melee was out and they looked up who Marth and Roy were. So they started playing those games, and were introduced that way.
People generally don't like change. Ness missing is something I really don't like and if he really is I'll just have to put up with it. I think it is the classic nature of the character being in the game that makes people like seeing the character there. I dunno... just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.

 

[Hong]

To respond to lunadis, I can point one thing out about Ness's participation in Smash Bros:
It introduced some ignorant players (such as me) to Earthbound/Mother, a series I now really do like.
Also, I knew many people who had no idea what Fire Emblem was until Melee was out and they looked up who Marth and Roy were. So they started playing those games, and were introduced that way.
People generally don't like change. Ness missing is something I really don't like and if he really is I'll just have to put up with it. I think it is the classic nature of the character being in the game that makes people like seeing the character there. I dunno... just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.

And people who like Lucas wouldn't look into the MOTHER series themselves regardless? It's the same effect. I would shoot him down for being Japanese only, but the last MOTHER game we've seen outside of Japan was over ten years ago. The only people getting into the MOTHER series would look it up online, most likely find a site like Starmen.net. They'll see that the series has stopped and North America has only seen one game. The sad reality is you'll have an easier time legally buying MOTHER 3 and translating it then finding an EarthBound cartridge and working SNES these days. Of course they can bring EarthBound to virtual console, but they can also officially translate MOTHER 3. One could download the EarthBound rom, but illegal activities are another subject. xP

You bringing up Marth and Roy only further bolsters my example. Has any English speaking fan who discovered Marth and Roy through melee actually got to play a game with either one of them in it? Not yet. Infact, they won't get to play a game with Marth until nearly two decades after the original's release. Chances are without a translation, they will never get to play a game with Roy either. It can just as easily be the same case with Lucas, but at least unlike MOTHER Fire Emblem is still continuing.

 

[Chaosblade77]

You bringing up Marth and Roy only further bolsters my example. Has any English speaking fan who discovered Marth and Roy through melee actually got to play a game with either one of them in it? Not yet. Infact, they won't get to play a game with Marth until nearly two decades after the original's release. Chances are without a translation, they will never get to play a game with Roy either. It can just as easily be the same case with Lucas, but at least unlike MOTHER Fire Emblem is still continuing.

Actually... I have played Sword of Seals, although it was no fun because I could not read Japanese. That also made the game more difficult than it should have been... needless to say I did not play much XD

Also, I know I have said it numerous times... but an unreliable source says [Wikipedia, Wii Menu page] says that Nintendo plans to translate and release all Japan only Fire Emblem and both Japan only Mother games on the Wii console, similar to Mario Brothers 2 and Sin and Punishment.

I have looked for evidence to support this claim but have come up dry so far, and also have my doubts about Roy's game since his was on the GBA, and there are no GBA games on the shop channel thus far.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Ness is gone, and I am glad, and there is nothing any of you can do about it. Opinions rule.

 

[Hong]

Actually... I have played Sword of Seals, although it was no fun because I could not read Japanese. That also made the game more difficult than it should have been... needless to say I did not play much XD

xD By game, I meant the actual game in original form. I think many Fire Emblem fans have played the game in a certain method I shall not speak if in this thread to remain legal. xP

Also, I know I have said it numerous times... but an unreliable source says [Wikipedia, Wii Menu page] says that Nintendo plans to translate and release all Japan only Fire Emblem and both Japan only Mother games on the Wii console, similar to Mario Brothers 2 and Sin and Punishment.

I have looked for evidence to support this claim but have come up dry so far, and also have my doubts about Roy's game since his was on the GBA, and there are no GBA games on the shop channel thus far.

I have seen that said a few times before. I'm personally looking forward to at least seeing games like Nazo no Murasamejou who have very little text to translate.

 

[Chaosblade77]

xD By game, I meant the actual game in original form. I think many Fire Emblem fans have played the game in a certain method I shall not speak if in this thread to remain legal. xP

Actually the version I got to play was an import, I was at a tech conference for web design (I didn't place in the State Competition though... second place in Regional is not bad though ) and someone there had a legit copy. I don't know if he could actually read it or what, but I asked if I could play it for a few minutes and he let me :D I actually ended up playing it for a while because he did really well in the competition and was on the main floor for a while... a good 45 minutes of playing, although I could have played longer if I wanted, but I gave it back due to the lack of Japanese knowledge.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, cartridge loaders come to mind, I never looked to see if it was an actual FE cartridge (I didn't think to). So he could have illegally gotten it and used something like that to play it on the GBA...

I have seen that said a few times before. I'm personally looking forward to at least seeing games like Nazo no Murasamejou who have very little text to translate.

That game looks great, I really hope they translate that. Hopefully we will get lots of good "imports" over the shop channel.

Ok... I think I am done editing now.

 

[TheOfficialSonicFanboy]

Actually, the hard core fans of any game series can find the game via emulators and roms, but naturally that is illegal, so what can you do?
If I recall correctly the first fire emblem for the NES was english and featured Marth in it, which I why I naturally assumed he would be the Fire Emblem rep.
I think the only real reason Lucas could/would/did replace Ness is because of his storyline and personality being more developed then Ness'. Lucas' story is very sad and has a lot of opportunity for him to show his personality while Ness' has few if no chances at all.
I also do think if Mother did get enough support in the U.S it would be furthered as a series, and Lucas in Brawl may just do that.
Anyhow, enough of that.

 

[Hong]

Actually, the hard core fans of any game series can find the game via emulators and roms, but naturally that is illegal, so what can you do?
If I recall correctly the first fire emblem for the NES was english and featured Marth in it, which I why I naturally assumed he would be the Fire Emblem rep.

Unfortunately, he appeared in 1990 in Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Tsurugi in Japan only, and then again in 1994 in Fire Emblem: Monsho no Nazo. They appear to be remaking the former for the DS, so we'll finally be able to connect with our favourite blue haired swordsman. <3 (No hard feelings, Takamaru)

I think the only real reason Lucas could/would/did replace Ness is because of his storyline and personality being more developed then Ness'. Lucas' story is very sad and has a lot of opportunity for him to show his personality while Ness' has few if no chances at all.
I also do think if Mother did get enough support in the U.S it would be furthered as a series, and Lucas in Brawl may just do that.
Anyhow, enough of that.

Yeah. That's kind of the effect everyone is hoping for. Even more so that Sakurai was one of the producers. With Lucas being in Brawl and the EarthBound Siege directly on Shigesato Itoi, one can only hope we finally get an official translation of MOTHER 3. Until then we will have to live with the rom translation patch which will come out next year.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Unfortunately, he appeared in 1990 in Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Tsurugi in Japan only, and then again in 1994 in Fire Emblem: Monsho no Nazo. They appear to be remaking the former for the DS, so we'll finally be able to connect with our favourite blue haired swordsman. <3 (No hard feelings, Takamaru)Yeah. That's kind of the effect everyone is hoping for. Even more so that Sakurai was one of the producers. With Lucas being in Brawl and the EarthBound Siege directly on Shigesato Itoi, one can only hope we finally get an official translation of MOTHER 3. Until then we will have to live with the rom translation patch which will come out next year.

All the more reason for Claus to join him...