ness discussion

[mixa]

Is there a Ness guide somewhere? I didn't find anything through my elaborate search method of putting "ness guide" into the searchbar.

I play 12-character battles with one of my friends, and Ness is one of my worst characters. So far, I've had success with something along the lines of dair - dair - djc & techchase dair - dair - dair - bair - edgeguard/spike dair, sometimes starting with a few utilts. Basically, I have no idea what I'm actually supposed to be doing, but am pretty sure there are some z2ds and basically everything on properly djc'ing that I'm missing. In the lack of a guide, would just watching videos be a good way to learn general tricks?

Watching videos may be the only way to learn tricks.
Here's what I did to get the hang of the DJC when I started: Ness DJC chain practice

 

[Vale]

Alright, thanks. I'll try those out. Is Samus the only character with the proper weight for these, or was it chosen randomly/to be easier/to be harder?

 

[mixa]

Give or take, several characters can be comboed with a chain of DJC aerials. I chose Samus because I think she's the easiest to practice on given that she's heavy and floaty. The first makes her not fly away and the second grants you more time to dash/attack again.

I'd like to hear what else people do to practice DJC as well.


If you can play on an emulator, you can also practice the timing of hitting a shield with a DJC aerial by doing somewhat legit shieldbreaks: go to VS mode, 2 players.
The goal is to make the 2P shield every time you attack. Change the input so that your attack button is 2P's shield button. So whenever you press A, 2P will shield.

 

[weedwack]

F/N Chains work well against samus, Mario, luigi, puff, Kirby, yoshi, ness, and dk. Pika should be spiked and chased. You can do 1 fair into spike against falcon/link after 4 Uairs. Two is really tough. Fox is super tough to combo horizontally because he falls so fast, its usually better to combo into a grab and edge guard.

Uair is the best way to set these up.

 

[Mercasio391]

Wow, I am new to this website but I have been playing smash since it came out and would consider myself to be relatively experienced in this game and am very surprised at this discussion, I have always thought of Ness as probably the third best character in the game behind Kirbs and Pikachu. My friend, who is the only person I know who is better than me, and I mean ALOT better, is best with Ness and lemme tell you guys I can pretty much guarantee not many people could take a life off of him with Ness, unless you're a pro (which one of his good friends is). His throw is beyond incredible and the only people who think his up + B is bad are just not good at it, its actually incredible and one of the most damaging moves in the game. If you get good with Ness I think he is pretty much unstoppable because of how fast he is, not to mention how deadly his spike is, that you won't even see coming because his jump is so wacky. And then theres the yo-yo.. don't **** with the yo-yo..

 

[mixa]

"pretty much unstoppable"

joined: today.

yuhhhhhhhhhhh I don't believe you ppl

 

[ballin4life]

F/N Chains work well against samus, Mario, luigi, puff, Kirby, yoshi, ness, and dk. Pika should be spiked and chased. You can do 1 fair into spike against falcon/link after 4 Uairs. Two is really tough. Fox is super tough to combo horizontally because he falls so fast, its usually better to combo into a grab and edge guard.

Uair is the best way to set these up.

if you need to move horizontally against a fast falling character you can use utilts/uairs -> weak reverse nair/fair to move them horizontally -> bair/dair finisher. also usmash can help sometimes but that's getting a bit funky

 

[Vale]

So after practicing for ~1 hour per day, I've managed to get 0 of those combos performed consistently.
status: ready to 4stock isai
Thanks for the help though, just having the knowledge is a good start.

@mercasio,
i'm pretty sure ness' dair is the only move I see coming.

 

[The Star King]

Wow, I am new to this website but I have been playing smash since it came out and would consider myself to be relatively experienced in this game and am very surprised at this discussion, I have always thought of Ness as probably the third best character in the game behind Kirbs and Pikachu. My friend, who is the only person I know who is better than me, and I mean ALOT better, is best with Ness and lemme tell you guys I can pretty much guarantee not many people could take a life off of him with Ness, unless you're a pro (which one of his good friends is). His throw is beyond incredible and the only people who think his up + B is bad are just not good at it, its actually incredible and one of the most damaging moves in the game. If you get good with Ness I think he is pretty much unstoppable because of how fast he is, not to mention how deadly his spike is, that you won't even see coming because his jump is so wacky. And then theres the yo-yo.. don't **** with the yo-yo..

These never get old.

It's funny how in line this is with the stereotypical noob post. Almost feels like satire.

 

[Sangoku]

don't **** with the yo-yo though~

 

[Sleepy]

So, basically I like Ness...
From someone who used to play melee, I have a few questions...

Regarding up-B:
1) for a upward diagonal recovery, do you circle the stick instantly?
2) for a lateral recovery, how do you perform it?
3) is a downward diagonal recovery (think fox in melee, going down towards the ledge) is it possible?

Other questions:
1) Does Ness throws, make any difference? (front or back)
2) Do Ness players commonly go for Fair > Spike combos?
3) What purpose does N-air serve?
4) Is PK thunder Edgeguard suggested on anyone except fox?
5) Does the back of the yoyo do more knockback than the front?

 

[rpotts]

So, basically I like Ness...
From someone who used to play melee, I have a few questions...

Regarding up-B:
1) for a upward diagonal recovery, do you circle the stick instantly?
2) for a lateral recovery, how do you perform it?
3) is a downward diagonal recovery (think fox in melee, going down towards the ledge) is it possible?

1) Almost, maybe just slightly bigger/slower circle for a higher angle.

2) You want to hit Ness in the dead center of his back. The trajectory of PK Thunder 2 is determined by where Ness' hurtbox is hit by his PK Thunder. That is if you hit the dead center of his hurtbox, which will be around the center of his back, you will go directly horizontal. It doesn't matter which direction the PKT2 is traveling, just where it intersects his hurtbox.

3) Yes, you'll want to do as tight of a circle as possible and hit him in the neck/head which will send him at a downwards angle which can sweet spot the ledge, though it's difficult and can sometimes, seemingly randomly, cause you to bounce off of the ledge and SD.

Other questions:
1) Does Ness throws, make any difference? (front or back)
2) Do Ness players commonly go for Fair > Spike combos?
3) What purpose does N-air serve?
4) Is PK thunder Edgeguard suggested on anyone except fox?
5) Does the back of the yoyo do more knockback than the front?

1) They do the same damage and knockback, so it just depends on which one you've used more recently (staleness) and where you are on the stage.

2) Commonly would be an overstatement but they're certainly possible and very effective.

3) Its hitbox comes out very quickly so it can used to get out of combos when at low damage such as taking Pika's uptilt at 0%. You can DJC multiple nairs together quickly for low percentage combos and shield pressure. It can also combo
into dair in some spots where fair wouldn't have enough knockback.

4) You can use it against Falcon to force him to avoid it by going low thus limiting his recovery options. It also works decently against slowly recovering Kirbies and Jiggs. Obviously it's effective against Ness himself, you can even hit his PKT2 and negate his recovery entirely. Try it on the whole cast and see who it's effective against and in what situations it leaves you open to attack if you miss.

5) Not certain, I assume you're talking about dsmash. It comes out on the back first so it certainly might do more than the "second hit" in the front which is common for many dsmashes. For usmash the front/top is the strong hitbox and the end of it in the back is weaker with less knockback.

 

[Sleepy]

Thanks for the info!
I'll try some of this stuff when I have time, and ask some more questions as they come up later on :D

 

[rpotts]

Thanks for the info!
I'll try some of this stuff when I have time, and ask some more questions as they come up later on :D

Sure thing, I should add that was a good post, much better than the "omg why do I lose with Ness, my friend plays Kirby, halp!" or "Help with Ness's upb?" stuff we see so often. Direct, clear questions are much easier to answer than vague advice inquiries.

 

[SheerMadness]

Critique my Ness doods.

Post any bad habits you notice and what not.

 

[Cobrevolution]

you recover pretty poorly in the first match i watched (only halfway through game3 before i turned it off)

you jump really early and upb right into a grab or edgeguard, or you get edgeguarded and then upb right away, or you choose to upb right near the stage where pretty much every character has the opportunity to run out and get another hit off

i'd say work on recovering low in such situations, ff away from the stage so they can't gimp you as easily, that sort of thing

 

[Battlecow]

optimize ur punish game dudebro

 

[Karajan]

@ S SheerMadness

I only looked at the dreamland matches.

Instead of critiquing you, I'll see if you can figure out why you're being dumb at these times:
First video:
1:50
7:33
8:14
11:01
11:13
11:44
*Note - Tank is pretty dumb also and could have done the same thing to you many other times.

Second video:
0:45
2:43

 

[SheerMadness]

Yes, I am really bad at escaping my opponent's spawn invincibility. Thanks cmu.

Cobra, I'd argue that Ness is in worse shape trying to recover low and below the stage. But yah it's Ness. His recovery is going to suck no matter where you do it from. =[

 

[Karajan]

Yes, I am really bad at escaping my opponent's spawn invincibility. Thanks cmu.

You're wasting too much time doing tech skill and then sitting in the middle of the stage. You need to consider how fast the other opponent's character is and figure out the spots on the stage where you can hide.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

i wanna pick up ness

what do i need to besides grab resets and spamming dtilt to edge guard

 

[mixa]

you need optimism

pick orange ness. i picked blue and it just made me depressed

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

cry the pain away each night, it seems to help

 

[Gammelnorsk]

his fair seems like a good approach vs kirby's uair

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

his fair seems like a good approach vs kirby's uair

What kirbys are you playing that are spacing with uair?

 

[Gammelnorsk]

only the best ones

what ****ty players do you waste your time with that don't use kirby uair?

 

[Chaostatic]

all jokes aside i actually think that kirby's up air is mad good lol

 

[Combo Blaze]

boom says there's a combo that uses up air that works I THINK.

 

[The Star King]

boom says there's a combo that uses up air that works I THINK.

utilt uair up-b works on heavies at some specific situations, also uair FSMASH and uair PIVOT UTILT (and nair I guess)

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

boom says there's a combo that uses up air that works I THINK.

I showed one to him. It uses 2 upairs lol

 

[mixa]

uair runoff dair = 0 to death



wait. it's kirby we're talking about right

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

wait. it's kirby we're talking about right

I think so.

We should just talk about kirby in this thread cause Ness is useless anyways.

 

[mixa]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23316116

jp ness' attack power is too strong

we need a video like this for yoshi

 

[SheerMadness]

For Yoshi's down b lol?

 

[Sangoku]

"La fin" lol too good. Too bad some of these won't work for weak American Ness.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I worst match ups for Ness is Kirby & Pikachu,and the Falcon and Fox match up is kind of fun because you can combo them to death

 

[Gammelnorsk]

when is pk fire a viable move to use?

 

[mixa]

When you wish to TRAP a no-DI opponent: http://gfycat.com/HelplessImmenseBlackrussianterrier

 

[Moneybags]

when is pk fire a viable move to use?

Short hop pk is a situational edgeguard and you can use full/short hop pk as an oos option if you feel confident. Also just throwing it in randomly might net you a hit. It's actually a sick move if you can land it.

Also **** the haters, Ness is high tier. Awesome smash moves and tilts, strong arials, broken grab and lots of tricks.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Also **** the haters, Ness is high tier. Awesome smash moves and tilts, strong arials, broken grab and lots of tricks.

ROFL

$200 money match, mr money bags. Come to zenith.