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ness discussion

B

breakthrough

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 12, 2013
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304
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West Chester, PA
ELITEWarri0r115 said:
What's wrong with ness? sure everyone hates him, but not me and a few others. He is a good character, but not the best. (just now discovered this area) :p
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To point out Ness's biggest flaw, his recovery (upb) is absolutely atrocious. You can pretty much bthrow him at 0% off the stage and have a guaranteed kill.
 
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murgatroidsp

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
16
I am pretty new and pretty bad, but I love playing Ness and I want to get good with him. A few questions:

1. What are the best uses for up smash? I have a hard time working it in, even though I see others using it. I find I usually just miss and get punished. If it hits, I will sometimes get lucky and it will lead into a down air, but usually it leads to nothing.

2. What are the best ways to approach besides horizontal DJC back air and short hop back air? I sometimes mix in dash attack or dash dance grab, but those usually get me destroyed.

3. Is there anything I can do to practice tech chasing by myself? I'm guessing the answer to this is no, but I'm not very good at it so I figured I'd ask.
 
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murgatroidsp

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Messages
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How do you do that forward air before the pivot up tilt? I have a lot of trouble doing forward air that close to the ground, I always seem to miss the z-cancel and I can't figure out if I'm too late or too early. I'm also trying to replicate this combo myself and I can't consistently do the forward air without moving forwards and getting the backwards hitbox.

That is, are you doing anything special to get that? Like maybe jumping to the right slightly before inputting left for the forward air?
 
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MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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murgatroidsp said:
How do you do that forward air before the pivot up tilt? I have a lot of trouble doing forward air that close to the ground, I always seem to miss the z-cancel and I can't figure out if I'm too late or too early. I'm also trying to replicate this combo myself and I can't consistently do the forward air without moving forwards and getting the backwards hitbox.

That is, are you doing anything special to get that? Like maybe jumping to the right slightly before inputting left for the forward air?
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if u are missing the z cancel on a fair that is that low to the ground, chances are u are pressing z too late. pretty much the only way u could be pressing z too early is if u press z before inputing your aerial. And yes, u have to input slightly to the right before doing the fair to the left otherwise u will get the reverse hitbox. It's good to get into the habbit of inputing slightly in the opposite direction before doing a fair cuz thats usually what you have to do to get a fair chain started. idk how skilled you are but you might want to practice an easier combo to get the tech skill down better. Like maybe uair x3 to fair to dair on falcon. Goodluck
 
Ness Lee

Ness Lee

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Jun 24, 2015
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Helpimkidnapped1
I'm just getting back into 64, but I seem to remember getting a lot of dair strings with Ness in this game. It was something like, SH -> dair -> dair -> z-cancel? -> repeat. And tech chase if needed. I'm not sure how well this actually works in high level play tho. The worst thing about Ness to me is his recovery, but if you play safe and don't drop combos, I think he has some potential.
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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Ness Lee said:
I'm just getting back into 64, but I seem to remember getting a lot of dair strings with Ness in this game. It was something like, SH -> dair -> dair -> z-cancel? -> repeat. And tech chase if needed. I'm not sure how well this actually works in high level play tho. The worst thing about Ness to me is his recovery, but if you play safe and don't drop combos, I think he has some potential.
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you can sh dair techchase or you can djc dair tech chase. This works best on the side plats and is effective in high level play. no z canceling required as ness's uair and dair autocancel
 
Suzukipot

Suzukipot

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I like Ness. I mean, I would never use him competitively and he's admitedly not the best Smash character by a long shot but if you learn how to utilize his moves and you know how your opponent plays then he can be a pretty decent character.
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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Suzukipot said:
I like Ness. I mean, I would never use him competitively and he's admitedly not the best Smash character by a long shot but if you learn how to utilize his moves and you know how your opponent plays then he can be a pretty decent character.
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sooo tldr; hes good if you know how to use him?
 
jigglesthepuff

jigglesthepuff

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
181
ness has good aerials and DJC, so his combos can be extremely disgusting. he's a pretty ok character. he has combos and jank, but he sucks against alot of characters.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
jigglesthepuff said:
ness has good aerials and DJC, so his combos can be extremely disgusting. he's a pretty ok character. he has combos and jank, but he sucks against alot of characters.
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that recovery alone is a deal breaker for me.
 
jigglesthepuff

jigglesthepuff

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181
it can go far, but it takes longer to connect than your average final fantasy playthrough
 
M

murgatroidsp

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Messages
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How do you DJC Rush?

I've seen in some places that you don't need to use an aerial and that you just cancel the double jump by jumping really quickly, but the only way I can get that to work is by turning around during the jump. Is it Dash - Turn around - DJ + Turn around - Dash?

Alternatively, is using DJC aerials fast enough practical? If so, I assume fairs are the best option, but the z-cancel is difficult to get consistently. Is it possible to speed up your movement with sliding dairs if done quickly enough?
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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murgatroidsp said:
How do you DJC Rush?

I've seen in some places that you don't need to use an aerial and that you just cancel the double jump by jumping really quickly, but the only way I can get that to work is by turning around during the jump. Is it Dash - Turn around - DJ + Turn around - Dash?

Alternatively, is using DJC aerials fast enough practical? If so, I assume fairs are the best option, but the z-cancel is difficult to get consistently. Is it possible to speed up your movement with sliding dairs if done quickly enough?
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its possible to do it with dairs, but i would recommend using fair. Basically rushing is done by using a super fast djc with an aerial. you can't just double jump. The nice thing about fair is that if you do it fast enough (land before the hitbox comes out) then the move autocancels so no z cancel necessary. The hardest part about rushing is actually restarting your dash after your djc. here is a video of me doing some rushing and other movement stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odAXamyRAvQ
 
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murgatroidsp

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Messages
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Thanks. And thank god, the non-aerial way seems humanly impossible. If you don't mind I have a few questions:

1) What's your method of DJCing? It sounds from the video like you slide right C - down C - A?

2) It looks like you managed to get the autocancel on all of the fairs in the video. Was that true? Do you find you can get it consistently enough where you don't need to worry about it, or do you throw out a z-cancel on every fair just in case?

3) Why specifically would you recommend fairs over dairs? Do you find faster, or easier, or both?

The reason I ask is that I have two concerns about using fairs for rushing. I use right C - up C - R for my DJCs. For a while I had a slight issue z-cancelling my (relatively slower) fairs in general until I figured out I was holding the R button too long, which was preventing my z-cancel from taking effect. That was an easy fix because I have plenty of time to release the R button, but I'd be worried using the R button might interfere with autocancelling. I was able to get several autocancels just now so it's definitely possible, but I'm worried it would affect my consistency.

My second concern is that if you mess up your fair, the lag is so bad. Using dairs seems like it would have less risk, because at least if you mess up it autocancels.

Finally, just out of curiosity, will you be at Pound in April? I don't get a chance to play other Ness players much/at all.
 
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MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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murgatroidsp said:
Thanks. And thank god, the non-aerial way seems humanly impossible. If you don't mind I have a few questions:

1) What's your method of DJCing? It sounds from the video like you slide right C - down C - A?

2) It looks like you managed to get the autocancel on all of the fairs in the video. Was that true? Do you find you can get it consistently enough where you don't need to worry about it, or do you throw out a z-cancel on every fair just in case?

3) Why specifically would you recommend fairs over dairs? Do you find faster, or easier, or both?

The reason I ask is that I have two concerns about using fairs for rushing. I use right C - up C - R for my DJCs. For a while I had a slight issue z-cancelling my (relatively slower) fairs in general until I figured out I was holding the R button too long, which was preventing my z-cancel from taking effect. That was an easy fix because I have plenty of time to release the R button, but I'd be worried using the R button might interfere with autocancelling. I was able to get several autocancels just now so it's definitely possible, but I'm worried it would affect my consistency.

My second concern is that if you mess up your fair, the lag is so bad. Using dairs seems like it would have less risk, because at least if you mess up it autocancels.

Finally, just out of curiosity, will you be at Pound in April? I don't get a chance to play other Ness players much/at all.
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1. yup you are correct I go right c down c A. It felt unnatural when i was first learning and i got a pretty bad blister but soon i got a callus on my thumb and now its all good.

2. yup those are all auto-canceled i dont go anywhere near the z button for these. It's pretty hard to get consistently and took me awhile (im still not perfect at it) but it's deffinately do-able.

3. I would recommend fairs over dairs cuz when you dair you could inadvertently halt your momentum which defeats to purpose. That isn't to say maybe it wouldn't work better for you. I think i've seen some japanese players doing it with dair. Maybe. Anyways i'd say try it both ways (you can even try it with uair) and see what feels more natural/effective to you.

interesting i've never thought about doing DJC in that way. i really have no idea if using the R button could have an effect on autocanceling. I'd say try it out and see what happens

i'm not really sure if i will be going to pound, but i know i will deffinately try to make super smash con which is in the same area in August.
 
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murgatroidsp

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Messages
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Thanks for the advice. I'll give both a shot. After practicing for the last hour I'm feeling more optimistic about the fairs with the R button. It seems like it'll take a while to get used to the timing and to get any consistency but it definitely seems possible.
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

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murgatroidsp said:
Thanks for the advice. I'll give both a shot. After practicing for the last hour I'm feeling more optimistic about the fairs with the R button. It seems like it'll take a while to get used to the timing and to get any consistency but it definitely seems possible.
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Good luck! Ness is pretty tough but so worth it. May the smash gods guide you on your journey
 
D

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i'm kinda into ness atm, not gonna lie. he's a challenge to use like yoshi, which is fun. ^_^
 
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EmpireCrusher203

EmpireCrusher203

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I feel that Ness what meant to be the troll character in Smash 64. You know, the one character that you keep annoying your friends with. But yeah, Ness's major flaw in the competitive scene is his jump, recovery, and he is overall easy to predict. You can't do much with Ness, unfortunately. And me being an Earthbound fan, it pains me to say that Ness is trash in Smash 64.
 
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