Nerf wishlist (Lock this please)

[Meritocracy]

I actually didn't. But I did now, and that paragraph is still pretty independent from all of the other thoughts you brought up. But to reply to your first paragraphs, never nerfing anything is a terrible idea. I believe I already explained it in another thread:

I didn't mean the first paragraph, I meant the small text at the bottom. It could have been clearer, and I could have been less hostile in my response, but it essentially says yes I know this means nothing I just wanted to stay on topic, even a little bit
also, apologies, never nerfing anything was an exaggeration, I meant prioritizing buffs over nerfs

 

[Necro'lic]

I didn't mean the first paragraph, I meant the small text at the bottom. It could have been clearer, and I could have been less hostile in my response, but it essentially says yes I know this means nothing I just wanted to stay on topic, even a little bit

Well in that case, I guess that's my bad.

 

[chilledcalories]

How about we stop hoping Nintendo ruins an actually good (new) Smash game with nerfs? Balance through buffs instead. Nerfs will just make the game worse overall.

 

[Ginsai]

Nerf inklings roller. Not the entire move just bury effect is ridiculous make it slightly easier to mash out of, obviously not at higher percentage, but it can keep you buried at lower percents and always leaves open for follow ups.

 

[chilledcalories]

Nerf inklings roller. Not the entire move just bury effect is ridiculous make it slightly easier to mash out of, obviously not at higher percentage, but it can keep you buried at lower percents and always leaves open for follow ups.

It's literally not hard at all to mash out of. Just be quicker. No need to nerf Inkling, the game just came out and all these "good" characters will eventually be figured out. Characters that were seen as "good" in the early days of every Smash game get figured out as people play the game/the competitive scene gradually develops a meta. There is no need for all these changes this early on unless it's truly game-breaking.

 

[Ginsai]

I believe

It's literally not hard at all to mash out of. Just be quicker. No need to nerf Inkling, the game just came out and all these "good" characters will eventually be figured out. Characters that were seen as "good" in the early days of every Smash game get figured out as people play the game/the competitive scene gradually develops a meta. There is no need for all these changes this early on unless it's truly game-breaking.

I still believe the nerf should happen. It’s just what I believe. And plus slightly reducing the bury affect won’t hurt her or him. That’s literally the only slight nerf I’d give honestly. The rest I would buff.

 

[Necro'lic]

Ginsai and chilledcalories

You know what the real problem with Inkling's roller is? It's binary. It is hard to hit, but when you do in the right circumstance, it basically is a guaranteed stock. These have never been super interesting nor intuitive. I'd say an easy way to remedy this is to have opponents buried by the roller take half damage and half knockback. This kills two birds with one stone, because it stops the surefire kill nature of hitting it, and makes it more interesting to play against, because you don't know if Inkling will just smash you for more damage or start a combo that you can then escape from.

 

[Ginsai]

Ginsai and chilledcalories

You know what the real problem with Inkling's roller is? It's binary. It is hard to hit, but when you do in the right circumstance, it basically is a guaranteed stock. These have never been super interesting nor intuitive. I'd say an easy way to remedy this is to have opponents buried by the roller take half damage and half knockback. This kills two birds with one stone, because it stops the surefire kill nature of hitting it, and makes it more interesting to play against, because you don't know if Inkling will just smash you for more damage or start a combo that you can then escape from.

It also prioritizes over Charizards Side b which is stupid.

 

[wiiztec]

"nerf culture" was a plague on the Smash 4 community and I really don't want to see the community make the same mistakes.

It was a plague in the PMDT too

 

[Quick_S]

I knew this was gonna be a salty toxic thread before I even clicked it but I still seemed to find my self getting mad. I personally think it is waaaaaaaaaaay to early to call for nerfs.

Yes king k rool is annoying and I hate fighting him too but that doesn't mean nerf. If we nerf the game too much it'll become a slow uninteresting game. Not only that the culture of nerfs will keep on going for example inkling gets nerfed, but next chracter to rise will also be called broken then nerf them, and so on, until eventually, mii gunner becomes the most "broken character" and we'll end up with a brawl two.

 

[MattOnwheels]

As a K. rool main, this notion that he should suffer instead of learning his weaknesses is insane.

 

[Quick_S]

As a K. rool main, this notion that he should suffer instead of learning his weaknesses is insane.

GOD I ****ING HATE PLAYING AGAINST K ROOL


but I'm not gonna call for unwarranted nerfs. I will admit that up b does feel a bit cheap, no move in the game beats it.

 

[MattOnwheels]

GOD I ****ING HATE PLAYING AGAINST K ROOL


but I'm not gonna call for unwarranted nerfs. I will admit that up b does feel a bit cheap, no move in the game beats it.

Its easily punishable from the bottom Not to mention slow af..

 

[Quick_S]

Its easily punishable from the bottom Not to mention slow af..

Fair enough,

but it has a huge hitbox on the top. And I wouldn't call it slow, but its not fast.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Fair enough,

but it has a huge hitbox on the top. And I wouldn't call it slow, but its not fast.

You can use projectiles.

He's completely defenseless there.

If not, try a counter.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I don't know a whole lot about balancing, but something I think needs a nerf is the entire mechanic of burying. This mechanic seems to take a lot to mash out of compared to previous games and other ways of freezing the opponent in place. If I get buried at around 90%, there's no chance of survival. They can just charge up a smash attack to maximum damage before I can physically press enough buttons to escape, and that will always kill me unless it's a forward smash away from the side blast zone closer to me. In Smash 4, that guaranteed kill didn't come until around 160%.

It's why , , , , , and are a nightmare to deal with online. I literally died at 0% because of a down smash to side special that came up as a nine.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Only nerf I'd want for King K. Rool is a shorter time limit on how long he can hold he vortex on the second part of his Kannon with the same applied to ing DDD and Kirby.

A bit too little risk for too much reward on ledge guarding.

The rest of his kit, just needs to be learnt and played around. I don't want another Smash 4 Little Mac situation.

 

[Rocketjay8]

I don't have any problems with armor.
If you know the character your fighting's moveset, you'll know which attacks have armor or not. If you see your opponent pull off an attack with armor, react and grab them, or dodge and punish.
Although, I do agree that some of K. Rool's armor attacks are a bit too strong, like stilt and nair.

What I do have a problem with are grounding moves.
Grounding moves almost always give you a free followup. Some character's grounds are so strong that you can pull off a charged smash attack, which can be certain death at higher percents. I'm fine with grounding attacks that are slower and more punishable, like DK's Headbutt, but Inkling's Roller, K. Rool's Dtilt, and every throw that grounds need to somehow be nerfed in one way or another.

Inkling's roller is so easily telegraphed and can be beaten with so many moves. If your opponent is spamming it, either shield or use a move that can safelynpunish the roller. Use your analog stick to mash out. It prevents misinputs and mashes out faster if you rotate it fast enough.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Inkling's roller is meant to function exactly how it does in Splatoon. High priority and normally kills you, so it makes sense that the opponent should get a free hit from it. How to counter it? Long range weapons, disjoints, projectiles, or.....jump. Hold shield. Anything works, really.

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

Nothing at the moment. I really do believe that if someone feels oppressed by a certain mechanic or character, that they should try and lab it out and find counter play. I hate saying this for the billionth time, but it's far to early to determine whether something deserves nerfs. Test things out, experiment and learn. That being said, Nintendo will still probably nerf some stuff since they nerfed the difficulty of approaching challengers due to Nintendo actually providing a challenge with them.

Please, I request all of you to let go of this nerf culture and just try things out. Also, as a side note, eplease don't complain because you're getting beat by certain characters online. First up, online adds a whole bunch of variables into the mix, like input delay and lag (which could be the reason why sometimes your mashing amounts to nothing against burying attacks). A character doing very well online is not a valid argument for why they should receive nerfs. Can you use online experiences as references? Yes. But don't base your argument on "this character does well online". If you feel like a character is too strong online, watch some tournament play of them and see how players adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of the character. There are over 70+ characters in this game, and there is so much to learn that calling nerfs on any characters before their meta is developed and counterplay is found is irrational, and likely a knee-jerk reaction.

Sorry for taking up your time, and enjoy Smash Ultimate!

 

[Xebenkeck]

Everything i have gathered from this thread so far is that the most “busted” thing in smash ultimate is the bury mechanic, and therefore the characters related to it.

Primarily Inkling and Krool but it also affects Rob, DK, Villager, WFT, Wario, G&W and Lucas to some extent.

I also beleive it’s too early to nerf stuff but if i were to suggest one it would be that this mechanic needs to be looked at.

In melee nothing could hit you out of bury, you incured the damage dealt during it. If you wanted to send someone flying you had to time it so that you hit when they came out of bury.

In brawl only strong hits would knock you out of bury, weaker hits wouldn’t. I beleive in sm4sh and ultimate are the same but the knockback is reduced on the ensueing attack but only marginally.

I would suggest the change be:

Go back to melee’s bury mechanic where you could only incure damage and not knockback.
Or
Increase the knockback reduction on a buried opponent to like -50% knockback.
Or
Make it easier to mash out.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

I can see why people want nerfs, but I really hate how I see more people talking about nerfs and not buffs. It really does feel like it's all about nerfs rather than making someone or something good with a buff to help counter whatever people think may need a nerf. A nerf isn't anything to be uncalled for or anything, but we need to be reminded that nerfs isn't the only way to go around balancing.

Besides, the game is still too early to know how the meta can expand. I don't want to see someone like King K. Rool, for example, being nerfed as I just expect him to be not as good as he sounds like later down the line. It's like the same situation with Bowser early onto smash 4. I'd really recommend to test things out more rather than coming up with the conclusion to nerf something. Even give burying more time and see if it's still really a problem to deal with in the future.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I would like them to cut more than half the roster next game so it can be smash again and not weebtrash and gimmicks that shouldve only been assist trophies. Thats all tbh.

You're playing a japanese game.
Nerf Stinkling's recovery, and add more time that it takes to get ink back.
Nerf Chrom's normals.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Inkling's roller is so easily telegraphed and can be beaten with so many moves. If your opponent is spamming it, either shield or use a move that can safelynpunish the roller.

This is agreeable. While harsh if it hits, splat roller is easily avoidable, but grounding moves are still a very real problem.

Unless you're superhuman or are hacking your controller, no amount of analog stick turning and/or button mashing will get you out of the ground fast enough to avoid a follow up, and I'm not even sure if that would be enough at over 150%. If all the opponent has to do to land a partially charged smash attack for free is grab you, then it's going to create a defensive meta worse than what we saw with Bayonetta in Smash 4 just with slightly more character diversity. It's going to be the Ice Climber's old tomfoolery all over again.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

nerf Pit’s illiteracy...atm that is all

 

[RepStar]

And that is a bad mentality to have. This reminds me of the stories about people returning their Street Fighter IV copies at retails because they weren't winning enough.

If you care about winning then it's up to you to get better and learn character matchups. You think your time to shine will come whenever the devs drop that magical balance patch that will nerf a strong character and buff a weak one? Even if your wish of nerfs came true, you are still going to lose if you refuse to improve yourself. The balance team shouldn't be appeasing self serving users.
Also, winning and having fun aren't necessarily tied with each other. You can have a good match, lose and enjoy yourself.



Sincere then? Got it.
Too bad its still a bunch of baloney. Me not liking it is the least of the problems, as that still doesn't change the fact that most of those changes aren't healthy to the game and are based on a knee jerk reaction.

Yea, well, sorry you dont like it.

Edit: or dont agree.

 

[Wiinner159]

To all those talking about nerfing buries as a whole, just wanna say that some characters' buries are borderline useless till high percent. being the most noteworthy here. At low to mid percents the buried opponent is able to escape before ROB can act. Really at best all that needs tweaking is the individual moves' burial lengths, but like some others I think it's also way too early to say who needs what changed. Let the meta settle for a bit, and rather than just calling for nerfs on moves you just try to learn to counter them.

 

[Vierge]

I would like to nerf some of Incineroar's moves that send you incredibly far even at low damage.

yeah

I would like them to cut more than half the roster next game so it can be smash again and not weebtrash and gimmicks that shouldve only been assist trophies. Thats all tbh.

This game is completely overloaded with 'weeb' or more aptly, eastern culture appeal.
First we have the japan-only-origins spirits, then confirmation of DLC charqacters from games exclusive to Japan, and how could anyone ignore the incessant KIAI BONZAI!!! voice acting you have to endure when playing against a character like Link and Roy. There isn't a hint of globalization in Link's voice acting anymore. And I hate the new Zelda model (totally weebified). This game has J-FUBU written all over it. Nerf that.

 

[Toadoroki]

I would like to nerf some of Incineroar's moves that send you incredibly far even at low damage.

*Backthrow flashbacks intensify*

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Ink mechanic of the Inklings. It’s the only thing that I feel is truly imbalanced.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

I want them to nerf the buffering system back to Smash 4 status.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe nerf Fox’s U Smash and Wolf’s Blaster as well.

 

[Semako]

I also think that burying needs to be adressed in some way, but I don't have particular problems with the ink roller.

And other “trapping“ moves such as Ness's PK Fire, Holy Water... should be easier to mash out like it was in Sm4sh. PK Fire is kinda cheap right now, especially online where you have to deal with additional lag, but also offline if you don't play super fast characters or have better projectiles.

 

[Crystanium]

SSBU isn't even a month old. I don't see why any characters need any nerfing. I think the Belmonts need a bit of buffing. It's sad that these new characters can be easily punished off-stage. Their up special should work more like Roy's in terms of distance and angling options. N-air looks like it doesn't cover much distance. Perhaps slightly increasing the diameter of the attack could help. I hear people saying the Belmonts are really good, but how? In previous games, I wouldn't have put much stock in one's ability to return to the stage, due to the mechanics, but in this game, characters die faster and only have one air-dodge.

I think Ridley's recovery could be improved as well. I'm all for Ridley players learning how to edge-guard in spite of this, but I'd prefer the option of up special working more like Fox's instead of having these peculiar angles. Or if Ridley is going to be stuck with his current recovery option, perhaps he should have heavy or super armor. Yoshi gets super armor for his second jump. Why not Ridley? Other than that, I'm not sure of any character who needs any nerfing, but I've only played against my brother, since I've been unable to play online. Not to mention the bad reports of online play. To those who hated For Glory, I laugh at you.

The Ink mechanic of the Inklings. It’s the only thing that I feel is truly imbalanced.

I don't see how it is. Inkling doesn't seem to hit hard.

I also think that burying needs to be adressed in some way, but I don't have particular problems with the ink roller.

It's literally not difficult to break out of. Just rotate your analog stick in a circular motion. You don't even need to be rough with the analog stick.

And other “trapping“ moves such as Ness's PK Fire, Holy Water... should be easier to mash out like it was in Sm4sh. PK Fire is kinda cheap right now, especially online where you have to deal with additional lag, but also offline if you don't play super fast characters or have better projectiles.

Ness' PK Flash was nerfed, so I think the buffs were applied to PK Fire and PK Thunder. It seems like PSI Magnet was slightly nerfed in terms of start-up, but I could be wrong. I understand dealing with Ness. My brother mains him. Ness players wished PK Fire would keep the opponent in the flames, and they finally got it after four previous games. "Cheap" is subjective, so instead of calling it "cheap", learn to deal with it. Block the attack or reflect it.

 

[Uffe]

Anybody calling for a nerf on Ness' PK Fire really need to learn how to DI out of it. It really isn't that difficult. My brother had a huge issue with Ness' PK Fire for sometime, but because he fights my Ness so often, he's gotten used to getting out of it. If anybody thinks Ness' PK Fire needs to be easier to get out of, then perhaps it should do more damage as a trade off. If you want to talk about Lucas' PK Fire, then I'll understand. I also use him and I can see that his PK Fire is far more annoying, especially since he can be evasive with it. But it's too freaking early for calling for nerfs. PK Fire isn't even on the level of Brawl Meta Knight or Sm4sh Bayonetta.

 

[Mikazuki]

I want them to nerf the buffering system back to Smash 4 status.

Yeah, it's awful. It conflicts with the new air dodge mechanics and leads to way too many SDs.

What I actually want to see nerfed are deceiptiful strong attacks like Pichu's ftilt. It just doesn't feel right to me when such attacks have as much knockback as smash attacks.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This game is completely overloaded with 'weeb' or more aptly, eastern culture appeal.
First we have the japan-only-origins spirits, then confirmation of DLC charqacters from games exclusive to Japan, and how could anyone ignore the incessant KIAI BONZAI!!! voice acting you have to endure when playing against a character like Link and Roy. There isn't a hint of globalization in Link's voice acting anymore. And I hate the new Zelda model (totally weebified). This game has J-FUBU written all over it. Nerf that.

I'm sorry, what!? This is outrageous.

You do realize that 99% of content developed by Nintendo since 1980 has been made in Japan, right? So it only makes sense that there's Japanese exclusive content in the game, right? Obviously some content has spent more time in Japan than it has in the west so of course there are going to be a few spirits or maybe an assist trophy that only people from Japan truly know about. But that doesn't mean the game is "weebified."

Before you start throwing around such a derogatory, made up term how about you chew on this: Just because there's something you haven't seen before doesn't mean the game has an emphasis on, for lack of a better word, "weebs" (I hate using that term). If the vast majority of content was originally from Japan, of course there's going to be some spirits from japan only games. Get over it. There's 1300 spirits and all you can think about is the fact that a small amount of them haven't been in the west otherwise? If I didn't know any better (because clearly you don't) I'd assume that you're being simply racist.

And where did anyone confirm that the DLC fighters are going to be all from Japanese exclusive games? What's your source? Fake news, anyone? Persona 5 was released worldwide over a year and a half ago, I see no Japanese exclusive content there. And all that was said was that the newcomers would be "unexpected" and from series that lack representation in Smash. So games like Banjo and Kazooie, Halo, etc. all have a shot, there's no confirmation that all of the DLC is going to be from Japanese exclusive games.

If you have a problem with the voice actors, get over it. They're just voice actors. Link sounds different, yes, but still closer to his form in Breath of the Wild and much better than the Link we had in the two previous titles. And Roy? That's just his voice. The reason everyone but you can put up with it is because you're overreacting to small, irrelevant details in the design of the game.

And what makes you think that Zelda's design is "weebified?" Because she's not the emo, almost edgelord Zelda we witnessed playing Twilight Princess? Because she has a cheery smile, happy attitude and cute design? Because she's wearing a sensible outfit and not a skin tight dress from the waist up? Her design was based of of A Link to the Past. The happy, blonde Zelda from that game isn't "weeb" style in any way.

You do realize what "weeb" means right? "Weeb" is an incredibly derogatory term used to describe someone who lives, breathes, and revolves solely around anime and manga. You're using it to describe anything from Japan that you fail to appreciate. You know what this game truly has written over it? Effort. Appreciation. Detail. And yet you refuse to see any of that and throw around derogatory terms in an inherently racist attitude toward anything that has a hint of Japanese culture to it.

If you truly have a problem with the minuscule amounts of Japanese exclusive content in this game, instead of farting in out in a thread about nerfs make your own thread and politely discuss your problem with this--Oh wait, you did, twice, and they were ten times worse than this.

 

[MarioMeteor]

1. The burying mechanic needs to go back to how it was before where attacks would deal half the knockback that they normally would. Characters like K. Rool and Inkling shouldn’t be able to immobilize you and then kill you at 60%.

2. I think it’s entirely too early to call for character-specific nerfs, but Chrom’s forward tilt is kind of stupid. No move should have the speed of a jab and the strength of a smash attack.

3. The buffer system. Dear God, revert the buffer system back to how it used to be.

4. The instant short hop mechanic was not well thought-out and does more harm than good.

5. Not being able to run through people is stupid. Please fix that ****.

Notice how a lot of these aren’t nerfs, but mechanic reverts. I really don’t understand what was going through the developers’ heads when they were designing some of this game’s mechanics. I feel like they just changed **** so that people wouldn’t call the game a port of Smash 4.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

We really need the onld buffer system back.

 

[Luigifan18]

We really need the old buffer system back.

Um... what does that have to do with nerfing anything?