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Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Kansas City, MO
This depends on what you consider an advanced technique. Honestly, things like good spacing and timing or matchup knowledge matter about a billion times more than any AT so if you're just looking for how to improve, that's the best place to start.

However, there are a few things you might want to pick up.

B-reversals are huge, especially for characters with directional up specials (Squirtle, Kirby, Ike, Meta Knight, Marth, etc.). Even if you aren't using one of those characters, it's still something you need to be able to do.

Glide tossing is not quite universal (Yoshi can't do it), and a fair number of characters get a zero or extremely low distance out of it. However, it's super big for a few characters like Diddy Kong and generally worth learning if you use anyone with a useful glide toss distance. Just be aware that a few characters (like Mr. Game & Watch) require ridiculously good timing if you want to get a useful distance.

DACUS (dash attack cancel up smash) is huge for everyone who gets a useful distance off it. That AT thread refers to it as "Boosting Technique: Smash-Boosting (a.k.a. Snake Dashing, etc)" and I think it has 5 or 6 other names, but it's worth using if you use someone who gets a good distance (Snake being the poster boy). Your icon shows Wario; he gets something useful out of it.

Optimum survival when hit is ATish, and it's something everyone needs to understand. It kinda goes like this...

SDI? SDI is really hard to use and has a pretty small benefit for most moves, but with multi-hit moves or in very specific circumstances otherwise (like when hit by Falco's down aerial at the end of a chaingrab), it's very useful. The best way to SDI is to wiggle the control stick between two adjacent directions including diagonals (like wiggle between up and up-right). If hit with a single powerful hit that will quite possibly kill you, don't bother with this since you are going to have to input a bunch of other more imporant stuff.

DI? Regular old DI is just holding a direction the frame you exit hitlag. This changes your trajectory but not your launch speed; your ultimate goal is to direct yourself to fly into a corner since the stages all have rectangular blast zones. This generally means holding the stick perpendicular to the launch direction, NOT the intuitive holding it toward the stage (though do hold toward the stage after you are already flying so you air control that way as soon as you can).

Do an aerial? You can do any aerial (or airdodge or throw an item) halfway through hitstun in Brawl. This doesn't directly help you, but you do get the ability to do other moves once you finish, and you can begin to fastfall while doing aerials or when you can do other moves which can help you survive vertical hits. The general rule is to throw an item if you are holding one but otherwise do your fastest aerial (fastest being whatever finishes fastest, not hits fastest). Airdodging is tempting, but it's not a good option and doing it when hit is a bad habit. Also, don't think that doing momentum altering aerials (like Toon Link's down aerial) is going to slow you down; it doesn't, and most of those take a very long time to finish so they're actually terrible options.

Momentum cancel? Certain special moves slow down the user when used while launched. The most dramatic and useful case is with Mr. Game & Watch's non-filled bucket; it stops him completely (DK's up special and Yoshi's forward special do this too, but they're not so useful for obvious reasons). Quite a few if not most characters have some special that at least somewhat slows them down; you'll have to explore.

Double jump? If you don't have a good way to momentum cancel and are flying horizontally, your general next best attempt is to double jump toward the stage. This does give you a boost AWAY from the stage which sucks and sometimes kills you, but in general it helps you live more than it hurts you. Just don't do it when you're already in the bubble offscreen.

I didn't mention it in the rest of that, but obviously be ready to tech if you're hit into a surface. Being good at teching is really important to surviving on some stages (and will be super helpful to you in not getting owned by Mr. Game & Watch's down throw). Actually, it's not really an AT, but you absolutely need to be able to tech Mr. Game & Watch's down throw 100% of the time.

Optimum grab breaking is also something you should know how to do (extremely important for Mario, Luigi, Samus, Ness, and Lucas but generally useful for everyone). The best technique is to rotate the control stick while mashing as many buttons on the right face of the controller as you can (I am not yet completely sure what the absolute best right side strategy is, but the control stick is the really important part). This severely damages your ability to DI throws so be smart about it, but it really cuts down on the number of pummels your opponent can get away with.

This probably isn't the first thing to occur to you when learning your character, but be sure you know your best answers to ledge stalling before it comes up in a tournament. If you use Meta Knight or Mr. Game & Watch, you should practice ledge stalling yourself.

Speaking of "best move to use when", you need to know your best move to challenge the Mach Tornado (if you have one that can) and your best move to get pikmin off you in general. You should be aware of which of your moves have elemental properties (if any); they matter against Olimar and Pokemon Trainer.

If you use Ice Climbers, you need to learn how to do their infinites. You can pick your variant, but people should not generally survive being grabbed.

If you are using a character who can force jump breaks on flat ground (Peach, Bowser, DK, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Captain Falcon, Ivysaur, Marth, Ike, Snake), you would benefit from learning what free stuff you get against the characters with bad jump breaks (the main three to abuse are Wario, Meta Knight, and Squirtle [I think but am not sure that Lucas is a general 4th] but you can sometimes get stuff against other characters). If you use Bowser or Yoshi in particular, you should really look into grab breaks a lot since they're a really big part of their games. If you use Marth or Charizard, be prepared for the grab release chaingrab on Ness and Lucas.

Falco, Pikachu, and King Dedede have some really major chaingrabs that you need to learn if you want to be competitive with them. You should know where your character stands in terms of being chaingrabbed by all three regardless of who you main.

If your character has a jab lock (or a similar move that does the same thing), you really should learn it. I don't think there's a really good comprehensive list of which moves have this property anywhere, unfortunately. Do be aware that some jab locks (like Olimar's) are so difficult that they are probably not worth the effort to learn.

There may be more character specific stuff you need to know; the character boards will hook you up with that. You want to have some degree of character knowledge of the whole cast and stage knowledge of every stage that's legal in your region so be sure to take full advantage of friendlies for that even if it puts you outside of your comfort zone. Using random low tier characters on stages you don't like may seem like a bad idea, but you will be thankful for every little thing you learn when someone you've never met picks that character and that stage in a tournament.

This turned out mega long and into a general "things to look into" post, but it should have some good stuff in it.
 

DeadX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
251
sorry if this has already been asked/posted, but the ghosts on yoshi's island have a set time in which they come up? if so, how frequently?
 

ndayday

stuck on a whole different plaaaanet
BRoomer
Joined
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19,614
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They come up when they 'sense' someone is off the edge, trying to recover.
 

HntrDrizzt

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Colorado
The people that I play the most are Zamus, Bowser, and Zelda. As for a main, I haven't picked a single person yet cause I like to switch things up a lot but I guess if I am to become more competative I might want to pick one.

How is pivoting used in game? Maybe another question is what bridges the gap between someone who plays SSBB with friends and is good to a competetive player in tourneys and such.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
Is your best momentum canceling aerial the one that starts the quickest or ends the quickest?
Ends the quickest. The only difference is that you'll be able to control your character again fastest (because your aerial ended).

a combination of both.
Starting lets you fast fall
Ending lets you jump and end momentum.
you can fast fall at the start of any aerial, so startup doesn't matter.

The people that I play the most are Zamus, Bowser, and Zelda. As for a main, I haven't picked a single person yet cause I like to switch things up a lot but I guess if I am to become more competative I might want to pick one.
There's no need to pick one. A divese roster can often have the advantage over a centralized roster.

How is pivoting used in game? Maybe another question is what bridges the gap between someone who plays SSBB with friends and is good to a competetive player in tourneys and such.
Experience, knowledge, ability to make correct decisions.

read this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226635
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Is it known that on stages like Battlefield and Smashville have ledge slopes that can propel a character through? Such as: Captain Falcon is on the ledge, Fast fall, jump toward the slope and Falcon Punch then Cpt. Falcon will complete his Falcon Punch on the stage. Works with a couple other characters as well. I worded this horribly but is this known? and if it is known then is there perhaps a list of all the moves it works on?
 

HntrDrizzt

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Colorado
I was just watching some tournament vids on youtube with commentary and I found it to be useful to point out when a character is doing a certain thing or key moves in the match. Is there any sort of commentary video list or list of tourney's that might have commentary?

And also speaking about commentary I dont mean random yelling and babbling but helpful commentary/criticism.

P.S. I tried searching for a tourney list already but the search function doesnt work for me and I don't know why. (I use mozilla firefox if that means anything)
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
I was just watching some tournament vids on youtube with commentary and I found it to be useful to point out when a character is doing a certain thing or key moves in the match. Is there any sort of commentary video list or list of tourney's that might have commentary?

And also speaking about commentary I dont mean random yelling and babbling but helpful commentary/criticism.

P.S. I tried searching for a tourney list already but the search function doesnt work for me and I don't know why. (I use mozilla firefox if that means anything)
there is no list of commentated matches, afaik. However, the best commentator (SamuraiPanda) has commentated at (at least) CoT4 (clash of titans 4) and M/BAA2 (Melee/Brawl Ann Arbor 2), sometimes alongside youko from SMYN. Those two do amazing commentary.
 

fZk

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
1,095
Location
East Lansing, MI
What is exactly meant by buffering? I read " buffer this attack and this throw" all the time, still not sure what is meant by it.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
buffering is simply a system that remembers what you input within the last short amount of time. If you input something during a time when you couldn't perform that action (i.e. while you were already attacking), if that attack ends inside the buffer window of when you did your input, you'll perform your input the first frame you can.
 

fZk

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
1,095
Location
East Lansing, MI
so if i I undesrstand correctly, is inputing an attack before the previous animation ends? Many other fighters have the same mechanism.

Is it known how many frames for input do you have before the previous animation ends? How long does this buffer window lasts?
 

gravy

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
560
im having some trouble doing tilts effectively
i am basically unable to do them out of a dash, always end up smashing
for example, with ddd any time i mean to over tilt, i over smash, leaving me rediculously vulnerable. i also do it with his up tilt, although i dont usually get punished for it, his tilt is still usually more effective than the up smash. as a result my juggle is ineffective as i have to try to walk over to where they are going to land, because if i dash it smashes.
any advice?
also i do it with zss, i usually mean to down tilt if someone is behind me and i down smash, leaving me open to say a bowser fsmash
 

DeadX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
251
i'm having trouble pivot walking. i walk one way and tilt the c stick diagonally upwards in the opposite direction, but i still just do a backwards fsmash. what am i doing wrong? and how do you pivot walk correctly?
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
With tilts, you just have to slow it down; it also helps not to move the stick all the way. There's no real way to teach the input perfectly; I suggest you just go in training mode and practice doing tilts. Maybe make some challenges for yourself like destroying Luigi's Mansion as fast as possible with only tilts and never doing the same tilt twice in a row. You just have to develop a "feel" for it.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
If you want to do a tilt out of a dash, then tap shield to stop your movement. Then you should be able to do a tilt easily. You can't do tilts directly out of a dash. Also, be sure that you have tilts down by practicing them.
 

saviorslegacy

My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
3,727
Location
Tacoma, WA
There was a thread that had the top comboer's,the best roll dodge, the best ect.
I can't find it anymore. Will someone me by giving me a link?
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
there are 3 types of (non-special) grabs: standing grab, dash grab, and pivot grab. A shield grab is either a standing grab or a dash grab (depending on if you were running or not), as is a Z grab. They're both the same, since the shield doesn't affect your motion (like, a dash attack affects a dash grab; i.e. boost grabbing).
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Alright, so i play as the IC and my friend plays as wario. Most of the time, if i begin firing desynced ice blocks he will just jump over and over and over and over again without making any attempts at approaching me,but rather just saying in 1 spot jumping to avoids the blocks. Is this considered stalling?

The way I look at it, wario can VERY EASILY approach me either through the air or just motorcycle through IB's because IB's wont knock him off his bike, so Im sorta leaning towards him as stalling. Another way to look at it,is he is totally avoiding conflict at all costs while I am technically attacking him. But im not 100 percent sure so an answer to this question would be greatly appreciated,lol.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
Alright, so i play as the IC and my friend plays as wario. Most of the time, if i begin firing desynced ice blocks he will just jump over and over and over and over again without making any attempts at approaching me,but rather just saying in 1 spot jumping to avoids the blocks. Is this considered stalling?

The way I look at it, wario can VERY EASILY approach me either through the air or just motorcycle through IB's because IB's wont knock him off his bike, so Im sorta leaning towards him as stalling. Another way to look at it,is he is totally avoiding conflict at all costs while I am technically attacking him. But im not 100 percent sure so an answer to this question would be greatly appreciated,lol.
Not at all. You aren't approaching him just as he isn't approaching you. No one is stalling, just you're both being lazy.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Alright, so i play as the IC and my friend plays as wario. Most of the time, if i begin firing desynced ice blocks he will just jump over and over and over and over again without making any attempts at approaching me,but rather just saying in 1 spot jumping to avoids the blocks. Is this considered stalling?

The way I look at it, wario can VERY EASILY approach me either through the air or just motorcycle through IB's because IB's wont knock him off his bike, so Im sorta leaning towards him as stalling. Another way to look at it,is he is totally avoiding conflict at all costs while I am technically attacking him. But im not 100 percent sure so an answer to this question would be greatly appreciated,lol.
It only becomes avoiding combat in such a way to make the game unplayable if it is impossible for your opponent to attack you from that position (or an attack will result in death automatically).
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
3,322
Location
Syracuse, NY
Well technically your friend is a Wario, and well Wario doesn't mix with grabs, especially from an IC player. He's just being overtly campy, as one should in that situation. However he can do a little more.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
If he finds no need to approach, he's not obliged to. If he can just jump over the IBs w/ no real risk of damage, and he's in the lead, he'll win if time goes out, so you're obliged to approach. It's not stalling because by no means are YOU unable to approach him.
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
A CPU Lucas Perfect shielded my Falcon Punch, got knocked on the ground, and performed a get-up attack. Is there an explanation on how the Lucas got knocked down on a perfect shield?
 

Man of Popsicle

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
1,287
Location
Redlands, CA
A CPU Lucas Perfect shielded my Falcon Punch, got knocked on the ground, and performed a get-up attack. Is there an explanation on how the Lucas got knocked down on a perfect shield?
He tried to buffer an initial dash due to the much reduced ending lag of a perfect shield and tripped?
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
3,322
Location
Syracuse, NY
Was he on a ledge or slanted surface (possibly Lylat and Yoshi's Island) That normally happens with shield knockback...
 
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