NECROMAFIA | Game Over! Shortest game in Dgames?

[Ramen King]

There is no rush. Let me respond. I will be done by tomorrow due to my driving exam.

Vote and tell me what you think of July. And then tell me what you think of Kary/July together.

And stop ignoring my texts all the time.

 

[Ramen King]

J, making a bunch of walls doesn't make you protown. Lynching scumbags makes you protown. You're just doing the same thing you did here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296092

Stop playing out the day and vote. The fact that this day is still going when I've had a guilty since nearly the start is really pissing me off.

 

[#HBC | J]

Okay I just audio recorded all of my notes for my read-through of pages 6-12 and it ended up being 40 minutes long so I couldn't put it on youtube so either I will try and shorten it or just try and type it up later.

I have to go to sleep now due to exam early tomorrow.

But basically I have my response done.

 

[Circus]

“Despite what you think, I can offer you nothing. I’m seasick and strung out and tired of adjusting.”

Vote Count
Kary [5]: Ramen King, Ranmaru, Ragnarock, Nabe, KevinM
J [3]: Ryker, Kantrip, Bardull
Macman [1]: Kary
July [0]:
Bardull [0]:
Ranmaru [0]:
Kantrip [0]:
Ramen King [0]:
Nabe [0]:
Ragnarock [0]:
KevinM [0]:
Ryker [0]:

Not Voting: Macman, July, J

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are required for lynch.

Deadline: Monday, September 24th, 11:59pm EST

 

[BarDulL]

Zen, understand that I will actually consider policy lynching you immediately after a Kary town flip that isn't miller.

 

[BarDulL]

No, in fact, I probably will do it. Relentlessly. And if you flip Town, we're going to have a long talk post-game. Do not pursue this route any further if you do not have a legitimate guilty on Kary.

 

[BarDulL]

While I'm at it, I ask that everyone gives their opinion thus far on the Kary slot, since he has been the central focus point for discussion this day phase.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I wish this game would shrivel up and die.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Reading the last page made me nauseated, actual thoughts soon.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why did Kary get into a fit again? That was pretty startling to be honest, but not really anything else to change my mind.

Kary, you tell us that nobody is looking at logic in this situation yet all in that post all you did was feel sorry for yourself and insult everyone on your wagon, I didn't see any conclusive evidence as to why Zen isn't DayCop, all I saw was you belitting arguments and having a ****fit. You really think that's gonna help here? You really think getting upset is helping your case?

I want you to think about why people believe Zen, and then I want you to consider who's the possible scum on the wagon. Your post told me me nothing. Sure, you made your argument clear. You're angry, you're frustrated, but why should I care? Your post is the posts I've been dealing with in [redacted] to be frank, you didn't get your way and then decided you're going to blame everyone else on your wagon. Do you think, that maybe, if you were doing a good job or people had you as discernible town, that they wouldn't be on your wagon at the moment? That's not to say that some people aren't just on it because of Zen, but what about the people who have given reason? I suppose that's many to be honest.

I'm gonna give you a straight and blunt answer: Unless you can truly convince the players here that you're not scum with conclusive evidence or a less defeatist attitude, you're gonna get lynched. Your post screamed to me "I don't care anymore, It's not my fault and I'm not gonna take the burden." It's true that you've been trying. That's great! But to be honest, town and scum will likely just sheep this discerning your alignment either way. That doesn't mean you just throw in the damn towel and say "a bloo bloo y is everyone voting me" You stick to your goddamn guns until there's a hammer on you.

I expect to see better or I expect to see a formal response from you, Kary.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I swear I am the only mediation in games anymore, I find myself in my armchair, glued to the seat everytime I see someone get emotional.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Someone asks me, not even halfway into D1, who I would want dead D2, and you genuinely thought I was going to be 100% certain in my response? No, don't be ridiculous. I am bored of you misreading/strawmanning me, so can you please just sort it the **** out. While you're at it, maybe answer my question viz Kantrip. Cheers.

I don't think this anything else than an excuse, to be frank. Why weren't you certain in the first place?

This is going to be where I try and openly pin Kary for about 40 minutes, sit tight kids.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

#402

Because I can't really read J when he's on the back foot, and I have a feeling that Macman lurks as scum. Readslist incoming pending a re-read.

#413

lynch J, or not, I don't care anymore.

#423

J > Nabe > ? for a lynch order, but probably NL today.

Come the **** on. How do we go from such a sporadic switch on J and why are you so uncertain? You're screaming at the end of #423 and basically go LYNCH J LYNCH J and your earlier posts, which are about 10 or so apart, have a completely different attitude.

"I can't read J"

"Lynch J, Or don't"

"Lynch J Lynch J"

??

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I find this topic of your read on J really interesting actually.

#327 (9-19)

i would say J, as he's my top scumpick at the moment

Yet the day after, you had a completely different change in attitude and stated more or less that you can't read J.

Why the change? What happened? I don't understand the sudden switch.

 

[ranmaru]

Haven't read yet, but based off of Kary and J's last posts, Kary town J scum. J is setting himself up for town points on Kary's town flip.

Vote: J

Kantrip, why haven't you read? I don't like that you keep coming in and giving reads on the latest post. Basically, I want to know why it took you so long to actually vote.

I'm inclined to agree, honestly. Kary's AtE was off the wall and didn't really feel like scum AtE.

Why did you agree AFTER Kantrip came in and voted J?

@Kary:

Post #423

I came into this game really hoping that this would finally be the game where I get along with other players and don't have to constantly bang my head against the wall because they're being ****ing ******* again.

Just a minute. Who said we didn’t get along with you man? Who said I didn’t get along with you? Sure you and I tiffed in Epic Rap Battles, and I learned from that. Did I just push for your lynch in the Paper Mario Newbie? No. I gave you a chance there, because you were doing your own thing there, but not here.

I tried ****ing not blowing up for the sake of it, because, seriously, what good does postponing my lynch for a couple days do anyways? It's just another gogdamn game where everyone is constantly suspicious of Kary not least because he can actually string a thought process together and actually reads people's posts.

Underlined + Bold, we all know that isn't why. If you are being called scummy alot in games, man up. It's most likely due to your playstyle and/or personality. Me? My *** got attention all the damn time (more so on Mafiascum, but less here now since people understand me), so don't get all huffy about being hounded. Remember Mafia isn't just a simple game, it's a game of interaction, meaning that personalities can clash.

Dear Bardull

I have come to the conclusion that you're a ****head in mafia games because you're a ****head in real life.

I don't think I ever want to have a conversation with you again

Kary, don’t be a ****. No one was treating you like **** here. This is a game, remember. We ****ing love you. So I don’t get why you are getting all personal here.

#1 why am I scum? Because I sure as **** haven't been 'backpedalling' or 'imitating Ran' or 'joking things off' as people claim.

You had done so. Don't try to hand wave it. Your early rvs post seemed like you trying to follow our example. You are also scum for trying to give a wishy washy stance on Zen and not giving a hard one. You are only trying to argue that there isn't a daycop in the game, but WHY? Because there isn't one? That is your argument? You do know that you will never know that, unless you looked at the setup yourself. It just feels like you don't want to take a hard stance on Zen and just try to go "Lol man you're kidding right?..... right?" and hope it blows over, that is what you have been doing the whole damn time, and it's scummy. You are not trying to find scum. You voted Macman because you had a feeling that he may have been lurking scum? Macman lurks regardless of alignment. I found your reasoning there to be very weak, as if to get off J's ***.

#2 what have I been doing this game? Trying to ignore the torrent of utter bull**** being sprayed in my direction, and actually generate some kind of content. Of course, I have more or less failed spectacularly, because every time I come into the thread I have someone else being a ****** in my direction, and I can't bear to look at the thread anymore because it's a ****storm I don't want any part of.

You didn't create much content. You came in, voted J, for god knows what... I don't even remember why you voted him. You have been asking a slight few players reads on people, and that's it. Don't try to blame your low content on others pushing against you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

As far as I'm concerned, your very first serious vote on J was about #178. How did we get from

Case on J, Pure confidence (#178)

I trust you literally 0% this game, J

And yes, you were indeed V/LA but that doesn't mean you couldn't read or update your thoughts on J. As far as I know, you really didn't even put that effort of updating your read on J and instead persisted to tunnel him accordingly and latch onto your scum-read like you were hanging for dear life.

Your only recent post referring to J again is when you are asked.

Confidence Feigning (#327)

i would say J, as he's my top scumpick at the moment

This about a two day course of discussion and I'm certain J posted in this time and you could have an update on your read. I find myself laughing at the irony of you getting tunneled that you're tunneling on J without any conclusive evidence besides your first post, but it's not really the point.

Because I can't really read J when he's on the back foot, and I have a feeling that Macman lurks as scum. Readslist incoming pending a re-read.

Confidence Diminishing (#402)

Because I can't really read J when he's on the back foot, and I have a feeling that Macman lurks as scum. Readslist incoming pending a re-read.

All I want to know is why you had a such a change, it's odd for me for you to be so certain and then shrivel up into a ball like this, and it only gets worse.

Admitting Defeat (#413)

lynch J, or not, I don't care anymore.

Why give up? Your confidence levels just absolutely spikes when people get on your case, there was no reason for this.

Last Resort (#423)

J > Nabe > ? for a lynch order, but probably NL today.

And here we are, back to wanting to lynch J? What happened? What changed? Your attitude is all over the place and I don't understand at all. You state all those things about town being dumb but I would say you're lacking the critical thinking skills on your part if you can't even explain why you changed so drastically. I believe, in all honesty, that you're grasping at straws. As either alignment though, because I feel your frustration and concern. Either way, I don't like it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J, you need to explain to me how you just turn the other cheek to Kary completely despite his attitude towards you, your post:

Yeah, I'm not lynching Kary.

I feel me and Kary are just getting jerked around due to a domino effect of anyone being too stubborn to come up with original scum-reads of their own. No one has presented a case on Kary and I have been careful of what I am doing with my vote around him and after that last post, hell to the no will I probably be voting Kary anytime soon. Even more so that I can relate to him of the utter annoyance this game is bringing because people are being just plain annoying. I mean seriously, Kary and I have not been given a fair chance at all this game yet because everyone just continues to berate either Kary for no fair reason besides Zen's gambitty thing and Myself for just being attacked for not agreeing with the "conformist" view this town has so far. It's actually just bad.

In a town full of tools, I can't believe people like myself and Kary are being called tools.

Is startling.

 

[ranmaru]

Mod: Please prod Macman

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kary, I think you're a good player. But if you're town, you've got the wrong priorities right now.

You've admitted that toMorrow you'd be down with a Zen lynch, owing to the potential of him following through with what is, if you're town, a false cop claim. But in the same breath, you're giving him lenience toDay because he could still be either faction. Zen could potentially follow through on this even if it's false and regardless of his alignment, so my question to you becomes, why is there any disparity between your read on Zen toDay and your posthumous read on him toMorrow?

Another question is why you're not doing anything about it. Your indyplay in Tekken suggests you would at least do so as part of a small scum faction that prefers your survival, so the meta isn't against you. But as town, there's nothing to be gained by being meek. Despite Bardull's odd threat, Zen wouldn't be any more likely to be scum toMorrow on your town flip. So you're not solving a problem by dying, and consequently I'm led to believe it's either malaise, or an inability to cope with the situation (as scum).

If it's the former, buckle up and convince people not to lynch you. Soup's 456 paints a strong picture of the latter.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

What a damn surprise that i come crawling back to this game. If I wasn't getting needlessly obsessed about it, that is. With any ****ing luck this will clear up a few points, because it's about the best that you're going to get.


Soup, you seriously think Zen is daycop, so frankly, I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond to you.

>.WHY was I not certain in my scumread on Zen?

First, it was a conditional scumread; it was specifically, if I were to flip, who would I look at. Secondly, how do you expect me to be certain on Zen? His play pre-game wasn't bad, it gave me a town lean. Since then he has sat on his 'guilty' on me and done nothing else. How the **** do you want me to have a conclusive read on that?

Now let me point out the phrasing of Nabe's question;

Kary, who should go on your townflip?

This is classic Nabe. Note how the question demands a strong answer, which I don't have; I'm not even entirely sold on my strongest scumread, J, yet. If I didn't think Nabe was well aware of this, I might've prefaced my answer with textbook, 'well i don't know Nabe because I'm only just getting into the game, but maybe...', but I didn't think there was any need for that, because it should be clear from the context.

I could've typed something more conclusive, but I have no keys on my keyboard, I'm talking to Nabe, and I still had that naive optimism that comes from assuming other players will actually try and read what I mean from a given response.


>.Why the sudden switch on J?

What sudden switch. Please don't be ********

I developed a scumread on J between his 'lose-lose' post to his 'i don't have time to reply to all these walls' post. All that has changed is the way I act in relation to that scumread.

At first, I vote J, thinking he's scum, to see how he reacts. he doesn't really respond to the vote, we have an exchange, and after a while it seems he isn't going to respond to me further. So I unvote J because my vote is no longer doing anything, and point out that I struggle to read J when he's on the defensive. Does this mean I can't read J? No. Does it disregard my earlier read? No, it's just how I'm trying to actually develop that read rather than just sit on my vote.

I said we should lynch J, and I said I don't care, and I said a load of other **** I imagine? Does that change my read on J? No it ****ing doesn't, don't be a ******. If I don't care about the game, then I won't care who we lynch. If I'm not certain on J, then I won't be pushing overwhelmingly for his lynch.

I really hope this is now completely clear to you, so that I don't have to continue to insult your intelligence. I suppose if I learn one thing from this game it will be not to do my own thing and try and prompt reads, but to spell everything out in babysteps so that you don't ****ing tumble when you try and tackle it.


>.Ran

It is not about whether you're getting along with me. As far as I know, everyone in this game is fine with me. Does that mean I'm fine with them? No. I don't think it's cool how some players are playing, and if I had my way, they'd be getting modvotes or whatever. The phrase 'needless antagonism' springs to mind.

And I know damn well that personalities can clash. But I don't think that it's just me, because I'm able to ****ing read other people who play differently to me. After a while, other people's constant inability to read me, is beginning to grate. let me spell some of this out for you.

>.My early RVS was trying to follow your example.

No, it wasn't, it was me doing my own thing. Seriously, what did they have in common other than questions? My thought process in this game was that it's short dayphases, and a playerlist more or less lacking in weaker players I can shamelessly pressure, so I wanted to start out with some quesitons. My priority looking down the playerlist is that I don't have a dumb ****ing argument at any point, because it leaves me in a bad mood, and without the time or level-head to scumhunt, so my opening questions directly addressed that.

>.Given that i've already given you two stances on Zen, I don't understand how I can be wishy-washy. Understand exactly this:

Right now, I have Zen as a town-lean
If I am lynched toDay, you should look at Zen tomorrow.

I've already explained both of these; in brief, I think his gambit is useful, etc., but that it's also easy to fake. If you think these two things are in conflict, then you're basically just saying that my read on Zen can't change, and that I can't ask town to look at a player that I have been reading as town.

>.Do you want to know why there isn't a daycop in this game? It's because my role is 1-shot daycop-cop; I can investigate one player during the dayphase to find out whether they're a daycop.

No, it's because it's blindingly freaking obvious that
a) there's unlikely to be a daycop in a 12-man setup with likely 2 scum.
b) it's unlikely that the daycop ends up being Zen

Seriously, the only evidence you have for their being a daycop is because Zen said so, and the odds of him lying about something like this are through the roof.

>.I THINK that Macman is more likely to lurk as scum, based on my experience of the games he has played. That you're disagreeing with my opinion of Macman, without offering me any reason why I'm wrong, and then using it to call me scum, is ****ing ridiculous. I already explained why I unvoted J.

>.And in case it wasn't blindingly obvious, I have two responsibilities as town, and a fixed amount of time/patience in playing mafia.

I have to look for scum, for instance by voting and asking questions.
I have to help others look for scum, such as by answering their questions, and defending myself

If I'm spending all my ****ing time defending myself and addressing the points you raise, of course I'm not going to do a lot that helps me find scum. You seriously want me to do something like analyze the people on my waggon? Pretty sure I've got someone faking a gambit, two people that believe him, and three people who are fine with voting me for pressure. Does that tell me anything about their alignments? No, not a ****ing jot.

So what I'm saying, is, leave me be for a ****ing minute, and stop giving me grief over the stupidest little things, and stop making this the 'let's all pressure Kary' show, and maybe it'll become patently obvious that I'm town. I will happily put all of my cards on the table given time, if you'd just ****ing let me do my thing and not whale on me.

Otherwise, literally the best you're going to get from me is 'lynch J and Nabe, or maybe not, I'm not sure'. Your call.

N.B. ninja'd by Nabe's post

 

[ranmaru]

@Bardull: What's your read on Kantrip?

@Macman: What's your read of Kantrip/Barull, and why?

@Nabe: What's your read on Soup?

Ok. Kary, while I reply, I want you to answer this: Why did you ask these questions, and how did it help you in finding scum? I mean specifically.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

karys last post made me vomit, good lord. will response properly soon.

 

[#HBC | J]

V/LA today, I may be here later but got other things to do tonight.

:3

 

[BarDulL]

The reason why I hate Kary's play in every game we're in is because of how easy it is to paint him as scum of either alignment. He literally acts like scum all the time lol (don't want to say the actually mean thing here so I won't because he'll freak out again if I do). He'll try and change his opinions on things as a way to keep himself alive, but he's not really fooling anyone in the process. In short, he consistently plays as a survivalist in every game I've been in with him. PM64 comes to mind.

Like, I'm looking at his #460, and it feels like a fake attempt to reuse his previous AtE in order to garner more sympathy because it seemed to have worked before, a.k.a. survivalist Kary, which makes me want to revote for him, but I know that's something Kary would do of the town alignment, so IDFK how to approach him. I'm leaning on Town only because his nervous breakdown post yesterday read as quasi-legitimate frustrated TownKary.

 

[ranmaru]

Like, I'm looking at his #460, and it feels like a fake attempt to reuse his previous AtE in order to garner more sympathy because it seemed to have worked before, a.k.a. survivalist Kary, which makes me want to revote for him, but I know that's something Kary would do of the town alignment, so IDFK how to approach him. I'm leaning on Town only because his nervous breakdown post yesterday read as quasi-legitimate frustrated TownKary.

Underlined, can you give an example?
Can you answer my question regarding you voting after Kantrip came in and voted J?

 

[BarDulL]

It's similar to that of Kary's stance switch from "I want Zen lynched if I die" to "Zen should be checked out if I die." He changed his approach because he knows that lynching Zen because "Zen is lying" is not a good answer. It shows that he isn't trying to read into Zen's intent, and is instead reaching for policy, something dumbtown/dumbscum would do. Only until I more or less spoon fed him the answer did he change his answer to reflect the idea that he would rather question Zen than immediately lynch him off a bad premise.

I agreed with Kantrip and voted for J, my main scum pick. Nothing more to it than that.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I am going to bold everything that is not attacking the argument, but rather the player itself.

>.Why the sudden switch on J?

What sudden switch. Please don't be ********

I developed a scumread on J between his 'lose-lose' post to his 'i don't have time to reply to all these walls' post. All that has changed is the way I act in relation to that scumread.

At first, I vote J, thinking he's scum, to see how he reacts. he doesn't really respond to the vote, we have an exchange, and after a while it seems he isn't going to respond to me further. So I unvote J because my vote is no longer doing anything, and point out that I struggle to read J when he's on the defensive. Does this mean I can't read J? No. Does it disregard my earlier read? No, it's just how I'm trying to actually develop that read rather than just sit on my vote.

I said we should lynch J, and I said I don't care, and I said a load of other **** I imagine? Does that change my read on J? No it ****ing doesn't, don't be a ******. If I don't care about the game, then I won't care who we lynch. If I'm not certain on J, then I won't be pushing overwhelmingly for his lynch.

I really hope this is now completely clear to you, so that I don't have to continue to insult your intelligence. I suppose if I learn one thing from this game it will be not to do my own thing and try and prompt reads, but to spell everything out in babysteps so that you don't ****ing tumble when you try and tackle it.

Now that's gotten out the way, allow me to tell you why this post is terrible.

I developed a scumread on J between his 'lose-lose' post to his 'i don't have time to reply to all these walls' post. All that has changed is the way I act in relation to that scumread.

As far as I'm concerned, you do not change your vote on J at all, you vote J and then continue to sit your vote on J, and before you were voting July.

At first, I vote J, thinking he's scum, to see how he reacts. he doesn't really respond to the vote, we have an exchange, and after a while it seems he isn't going to respond to me further. So I unvote J because my vote is no longer doing anything, and point out that I struggle to read J when he's on the defensive. Does this mean I can't read J? No. Does it disregard my earlier read? No, it's just how I'm trying to actually develop that read rather than just sit on my vote.

Bolded:

Gosh, Kary is so damn fake this game. His last post where he votes me is terrible and his random adding of Nabe to the lynchpool?

That's a pretty big response if you ask me. I don't even understand your other points in that sentence it sounds like a...wait for it...Excuse! Man...Is J your partner? J is your partner, isn't he? You two have a very small scuffle, dig and scratch at each other, and literally J ends it all with this statement.

I also like Kary more now for seeing what I'm seeing about Nabe.

Forget about me making this just directed to you, this now about you and J completely. What the hell was the point of that, and why did J get so defensive and make such a bold statement? Why did you ignore it?

2nd bolded: You did unvote J, but not until later, and that's onto Macman. My problem resides with the fact you want to say that you stopped pressuring J even though he openly attacked your argument. What is this? You do respond however, I'll give you credit, and he does ignore you. The truth of the matter is that both you and J haven't really done anything else lately, J promises to have a mondo catch-up wall and you've been sitting on your J read idly. You did not try to develop your read on J, you did not look at the walls and responses he did make, you sat quietly in a corner and did nothing. Why? You can't tell me you didn't have anything to look at, or that you were developing your read. It's bull****.

I said we should lynch J, and I said I don't care, and I said a load of other **** I imagine? Does that change my read on J? No it ****ing doesn't, don't be a ******. If I don't care about the game, then I won't care who we lynch.[ b]If I'm not certain on J, then I won't be pushing overwhelmingly for his lynch.

Hahahaha. That last line is atrocious. I thought you were trying to read J? You don't care about this game? You're not certain on J? Did you just openly contradict yourself? You said you were certain and that you unvoted him because he wasn't responding to you, not because you didn't care. Man, why am I even doing this? I hate trying to tell scum that they're scum.

Your last post is literally just AtE and insulting me, but unlike you, I actually read games and I look up things before I post. Squirm out of this one, kary.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

More votes on Kary please, we lynch J tommorow.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ok. Kary, while I reply, I want you to answer this: Why did you ask these questions, and how did it help you in finding scum? I mean specifically.

The short version is, I've not seen reads from any of those players, and without seeing some of their reasoning for why they like/dislike a given slot, i'm not going to be able to read them that well. I need to see some part of their thought process, because if their reads line up with mine that doesn't necessarily mean they've got there on their own. Wanted to know if Bardull's read on Kantrip was genuine, what Macman thought of that discussion (because it was one of 2-3 things you could really analyze in the thread), and asked Nabe about Soup because I'm not really following Nabe's stances, and Soup seems like a player that isn't telling strongly either way to me.
Although to be honest it helped me **** all in finding scum, because I don't think anyone actually bothered to answer my questions, though admittedly Bardull has settled on a Kantrip read.

@Soup: I literally don't even understand you anymore. I voted J to pressure him and to try and get him to respond to some of the points I made. He said that I was fake, then said that I was alright, then dropped off the map. I'd call that 'not really responding', not least because he's not replied to my question or the claims I made about his play. After a while it didn't look like he was going to respond so I moved the vote elsewhere.

If you're calling me scum based on something that J said, well, that speaks for itself really. If you think that was scum distancing, that's great, but the fact is that I've made points against J, and actually asked him what his points against me were, and i'm still waiting on a response. If you expect my read to have developed from J not posting anything, well... what you gonna do.

Also, I'm pretty sure I never said I was certain on J. He's my top scumread, that's it. Obviously that doesn't mean I'm 100%, and I'm not going to be sure whether I want to lynch him. That you're trying to use my palpable frustration with ths game as evidence that my stance isn't consistent is just dumb, and shows you're not reading for intent.

And I really don't know why you're doing this either. If I promise you a case on J, will you shut the **** up? You think we're both scum, so presumably if I bus him that'll be fine with you?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

, I'm pretty sure I never said I was certain on J.

I trust you literally 0% this game, J

Well, do you want me to go on? You didn't even refute any of my points.

Sure Kary, make a case on J.

 

[KevinM]

Kary is scum lol

 

[BarDulL]

I never outed a read on Kantrip prior to your question, Kary. I was joking with Kantrip regarding my reasoning of him being Town because his reasoning for my slot being Town was a joke. A wisecrack doesn't make me immediately Town LOL and neither does "being a bro in general" make someone immediately Town. Though I'm definitely cool with Kantrip for the time being.

I would most definitely like to hear your case regarding ScumJ.

 

[Circus]

Macman has been prodded.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kary is right about how I strongly phrase my questions and you shouldn't hold him responsible for a full scumread on Zen. I acknowledged as much in my previous post.

As I said, what I think is a big deal is the disparity between toDay's and toMorrow's reads on Zen, since no one is going to hold Zen accountable for a Kary mislynch toMorrow (for good reason).

@Kary, what do you think of Bardull in his treatment of this whole event?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Kary as well, don't respond to Soup for a while, just play the game.

@Soup, shop your case to other people rather than to its target.

For the record, I'm currently invested in a Kary flip for connections if he's scum. I've been eyeing Soup and J as well, so there's a lot of information available to me post-lynch in that direction.

 

[July]

>Catch up post was in progress
>Lost post
>Going to eat ice cream and cry
>Starting over after completing actions described in last bullet point

Also my hang gliding trip got cancelled for tomorrow so there is a good chance I'll be here and able to post at least part of the day, so I recant my V/LA for tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

>Catch up post was in progress
>Lost post
>Going to eat ice cream and cry
>Starting over after completing actions described in last bullet point

Also my hang gliding trip got cancelled for tomorrow so there is a good chance I'll be here and able to post at least part of the day, so I recant my V/LA for tomorrow.

Sorry to hear that, although ice cream sounds excellent. What flavour?

 

[#HBC | J]

I wish I was like Ryker/KevinM and could just call the entire case on me dumb and everyone will go with it. But I will get to responding soon. I'm probably just going to do an audio response.

 

[July]

@July:

Lol, I didn't expect you to be posting today. xD What happened to that V/LA. Not my fault!

Underlined, can you go into why? I mean yeah, game didn't start yet, but why does that matter in this case?

I noted that in your previous post, but I just was wondering why you didn't have your vote in play before that. I ask because when we hydra, you like to vote people even if they seem like slight scum, just so they can get pressure. You weren't really pressuring anyone. Just stating your opinion and arguing.

Ok then.

That is very true lol, it was my fault for falsely believing I could sleep and get my work done at a normal person time.

I didn't want to delve into reads/content at the moment because not only had Circus just reminded everyone that the game hadn't started yet, but why rush? I like being able to take time and get acclimated to the player list and start scumhunting, and I wanted to talk about mechanics and see what other people thought as well.

As for not pressure voting, each game is different, and this one became very centered very quickly on Zen/Kary and to a lesser extent J. With that knowledge I wanted to take my votes seriously, especially considering 1) I am aware that there are times, such as during class, where I will not be able to post for a substantial period of time, and I will be very conscientious not to leave a vote somewhere where it can be used in a way I do not intend it (to get someone lynched when I just want to pressure them, for example), and 2) ToDay's lynch is incredibly important because what we decide to do toDay will likely set in motion the necromancer's hoard of zombies and begin the exponential death toll we can expect from here on out. The Day 1 lynch can't just be a throw away lynch and as such I plan to make sure that my vote is taken seriously once I place it.

EBWOP: I do note that you say you don't always vote for pressure, but I want to know why it 'didn't feel right this time' since that is your reason for not voting for pressure this game.

One more thing, you forgot to address my request regarding my and Soup's interaction, can you get to that?

Uggggh yeah, I'll get to that, I didn't want to quote walls but I'll make a post addressing that specifically after this catch-up post.

But the reason I came in here was to

Unvote: J

Vote: Macman

Because I can't really read J when he's on the back foot, and I have a feeling that Macman lurks as scum. Readslist incoming pending a re-read.

@Bardull: What's your read on Kantrip?

@Macman: What's your read of Kantrip/Barull, and why?

@Nabe: What's your read on Soup?

This post is really bad Kary. Instead of pushing your strongest scumreads and trying to push someone who you think is legitimately scum and deserves to die, you push an inactive on the basis of meta. The fact that you are pushing him on activity/meta is very clearly to try and swing a lynch away from you (which definitely shows scum intent although town has been known to do it as well unfortunately), but what bothers me is that an inactive lynch is a terrible, terrible route for toDay and could seriously hurt us going into toMorrow. I've already emphasized that every lynch is important because the dead will come back to kill us, so an inactive lynch that results in a town flip royally screws us over in that we not only killed town and added it to the hoard of zombies, but we also go into toMorrow with no new information and get dragged back into the you/Zen/J debates again. Even in the case of an inactive lynch resulting in a scum flip, we still go into toMorrow with limited information on where to go next. Basically, I think what you are doing here is survivalistic, which in itself is bad, but it's scummy in that you are presenting an alternative lynch that is unlikely to help town and is likely to actually hurt town rather than trying to help town while saving yourself.

Someone put Kary at L-1. Doesn't matter who. Kary can self hammer if he wants to, doesn't make a difference.

What am I even saying?

Votes. Kary. Go.

No quick lynching, there is absolutely nothing to gain from that. Ryker/Macman/KevinM/Kantrip are all people I'd like to hear more from before the end of the Day.

Yeah, I'm not lynching Kary.

I feel me and Kary are just getting jerked around due to a domino effect of anyone being too stubborn to come up with original scum-reads of their own. No one has presented a case on Kary and I have been careful of what I am doing with my vote around him and after that last post, hell to the no will I probably be voting Kary anytime soon. Even more so that I can relate to him of the utter annoyance this game is bringing because people are being just plain annoying. I mean seriously, Kary and I have not been given a fair chance at all this game yet because everyone just continues to berate either Kary for no fair reason besides Zen's gambitty thing and Myself for just being attacked for not agreeing with the "conformist" view this town has so far. It's actually just bad.

In a town full of tools, I can't believe people like myself and Kary are being called tools.

I agree with Kantrip's #427 that Kary town, J scum is a possibility with J trying to look good on a Kary town flip with this post. Still, I find J scummy independent of his interactions with Kary, and this post's does not feel like it's intent is to help town, it's intent is to help J by presenting himself (and Kary) as victims at the hands of a "tool-like" town.

Kary I honestly respect your play and that post. You say that I was confident about you being scum pregame, but that's not the case. I'm never 100%, otherwise I wouldn't have investigated you. You're wrong about there not being a day cop in this game. I just chose to use it differently than how most other people would. You all have been partially right about the gambit however and I guess I have no choice but to out it now. I'm one shot and I did in fact investigate you and you are guilty. I would have liked to not reveal that it was only one shop, but I feel that's probably the reason why I'm giving off the gambit vibe. You are guilty Kary and J is your scumbuddy. Even if you are not buddies and are on different factions, you're still both scum.

Bardull & Kantrip I am not ****ing around here. You need to put your votes back on. I feel J is scum too. We will get him tomorrow. But Kary is going today.

Dammit Zen, that actually makes a lot of sense with the way you have played and the way this guilty result has gone down.

I'm getting a Shining Force vibe from this game where you are Swiss/Ryker and I'm still me and I'm still wrong ;-; Also this game gives off the same feeling as that one did, which Nabe has already mentioned, that so much time and energy has been invested in you v. Kary that it has to get settled toDay or else we won't get anywhere and we'll end up having to deal with it toMorrow.

Zen, understand that I will actually consider policy lynching you immediately after a Kary town flip that isn't miller.

No, in fact, I probably will do it. Relentlessly. And if you flip Town, we're going to have a long talk post-game. Do not pursue this route any further if you do not have a legitimate guilty on Kary.

We do not policy lynch Zen if Kary flips town, if Kary flips town we look at Zen's intent and other actions from toDay and we go from there.

@Kary as well, don't respond to Soup for a while, just play the game.

@Soup, shop your case to other people rather than to its target.

For the record, I'm currently invested in a Kary flip for connections if he's scum. I've been eyeing Soup and J as well, so there's a lot of information available to me post-lynch in that direction.

I agree with the bolded, except I've been eyeing Bardull along with Soup and J. Bardull's reactions to the Kary/Zen conflict and his knee-jerk reaction to where to proceed on a Kary town flip toMorrow are unsettling for me.

I like Nabe better after his posts relating to Kary because he seems to be looking at Kary's intent without depending on Zen's result to primarily shape his opinion on Kary; I think the fact that Nabe is looking at all sides of the Kary/Zen ordeal and drawing his own conclusions with regards to but not solely dependent on the guilty claim is a very good sign from him.

 

[July]

Sorry to hear that, although ice cream sounds excellent. What flavour?

My roommate ate all my ice cream so it turned into Mike's Hard Lemonade instead, which achieved the same result of making me feel better #noregrets