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My Weekend with Zamus v1.03 *Pillaring, DAir and Down B*

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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v1.00 -half finished post
v1.01 -finished post, Infil's Zamus Expose's added
v1.02 -Up B, Dash Attack, and Pillaring added to bottom, watched Infil's vids, various fixes
v1.03 -D Air added, Down B added

*as my initial impressions, a lot of this is may be out dated*
**************************************************************************

Well, a friend of mine came home this weekend immediately after modding his wii and burning brawl onto a dual layered dvd. After about an hour of play time I decided to try out Zamus, and I mostly played her for the next 2 days. I fought a lot of heavy characters though, so keep that in mind.

Obligatory:
Hold down a shield button during the transition from the "Ready to Brawl" character select screen to the stage selection screen. You can see her stock avatar if you did it right.

Costumes:
Orange Samus - Blue Zamus
Green Samus - Green/Yellow Zamus
Purple Samus - Pale Purple Zamus
Black Samus - Black Zamus
Pink Samus - Pink/Red Zamus
Fusion Samus - Dark Blue Zamus

Intro:
When you start a match, your special intro is the suit-falling-off animation after Samus' Final Smash. You start every match with 3 suit pieces at your feet. They are always the same: Shoulder Piece, Leg Piece(?), and Arm Cannon. They do ok-good damage, though we didn't stop to learn what did what. After 3 hits with a Shoulder, Leg, Shoulder DeDeDe had 10% iirc. The Arm Cannon does the most damage, but it spawns behind you, with the Shoulder Piece at your feet, and the Leg Piece a bit in front of that.
They throw really fast, and don't quote me on this, but we think they might be the fastest items in the game. They blink out of existence after a certain amount of time spent sitting on the ground. The timer stops while they are being held or in motion. They are a hitbox the entire time while moving, even while bouncing around. (Bouncing items is way more prevalent than in Melee.) If you mind game it right you can deal about 60% damage before they dissapear/get thrown off. But keep in mind that while throwing items at opponents you are also arming them. A couple times I was the one getting juggled with Suit Pieces. If you're up against someone who's slow with no/few range attacks though, you will dominate.
Important: In Brawl, you can grab items on the ground with a dash-attack.
Warning: If you start on a stage with a slope and you spawn on the slope, the items will tumble all the way down the incline until the ground levels out. This sucks on Pikmin's stage because the items just fall off the map before the game starts.

Move Sets:
(If you already know her moves skip to the bottom.)

A Spam: If you hold A you'll auto-spam your first A attack until you connect with something. Its possible to negate some thrown items with A spam. Waddle-Dees and Waddle-Doos can be negated (they go on the ground), as can Pikmin (they die), but Suit Pieces will still damage you. This spams really fast.

Jab Combo: Zamus does a 3 hit combo with ok damage and good enough knockback. Jab Combos seem like they will be useful, because you can do another attack after it, and it resets knockback decay on your kill moves. I'm not saying Jab Combo -> Down Tilt is inescapable, but I'm pretty sure most quick moves (Tilts) will link. This attack knocks the enemy away from you a bit. Depending on how close you are when you start the attack, the spacing would either be enough to hit with an Up Tilt/another Jab Combo if they were close to you, or a Forward/Down Tilt if they were at medium range from you.

Dash Attack: Zamus does a running kick, kind of like Fox in Melee. It knocks the enemy back about the distance a Forward Tilt would cover, but its pretty laggy. Its not that good and easily punishable. Damage is fine.

Forward Tilt: Zamus kicks out like Sheik's in Melee. Knockback sends them away from you so that unless you're right next to them, they'll be out of range for another one. I didn't use this move enough, so I don't have much else to say. Not too much lag and its fast enough. Damage is fine.

Down Tilt: Zamus crouches and does a sweep kick like Shiek's in Melee (iirc.) Horizontal range is about the same as Forward Tilt's, maybe a little less, but it is a low hit (of course.) Knockback sends them up, which will be really good for Zamus if my theory of how to play her is right. Vertical knockback is dependent on opponent's percentage. At ~40% they're at about a short hop's height, ~80% sends them to about full jump height. Damage is fine. A teeny bit of lag afterwards.

Up Tilt: Zamus leans back on her hands(?), basically both legs are in the air spinning and kicking. The range for this is a bit higher than her standing height, but horizontal range isn't very big. This is another ground launch, knocking the opponent up into the air. Generally this would be used when they're jumping on top of you, after a Down Tilt, or if they're on a platform above you. Damage is fine on this attack. Some lag.

Forward Smash: Zamus whips out horizontally with her whip/gun. This move has sick range, about 5-8 Zamus' long. Not only that, but on the recoil it hits about 2-3 Zamus' behind you. This is one of your kill moves if your opponent is at a high enough percentage. There aren't too many super long pokes in this game, but with Forward Smash you can beat DeDeDe's Forward Tilt if you space it right. Its close, but you can do it. Damage is great on this move. Knockback sends them away/up. Laggy, you don't want to miss unless you whiff a tip, if you do, you should be far enough away to bring up a shield in time.

Down Smash: Zamus charges her Stun Gun and shoots it at her feet (think Mewtwo's Down Smash). This move will stun your opponent for a good amount of time if it hits. It links well from Neutal B if you're close enough. I didn't use it enough, but its a great move to set up for a kill move of yours. Damage is on the low side, but thats not really the point of the move.

Up Smash: Zamus swings her whip above her, hitting multiple times. The vertical distance is about 1.5 additional Zamus' tall and the horizontal range is 2-3 Zamus's wide at the tip. This move has some really good damage, and it knocks them up which is useful. Damage dealing move, helps to reset your knockback decay, but I don't remember killing with it. It will only hit next to you if your opponent is almost touching you. Even then, it won't be very effective. They get pulled in a bit, but nowhere near the tip.

Neutral Air: Zamus swings her whip around her body. It hits about 2 character lengths in front and about 3 behind. In the front, it swings at chest hight, behind you at head hight. This was my least used move. It showed great combo potential against Sandbag in the Wi-Fi waiting room, but if you DI away from Zamus you can get really far from her. Damage is fine and its a quick attack. Knockback is up/forward, but DI ruins most combo potential.

Forward Air: Zamus does two kicks reminiscent of Fox's Forward Air in Melee, except these are useful. This is a good move. Kicks go out quickly and there isn't much lag. This is a kill move if used at the right percent and this is also a good edgeguard at medium precentages. Damage is sweet.

Back Air: Zamus kicks out behind her like many Back Airs do. This move is better than Forward Air. Its not a sex kick iirc, but it has lag after it. It comes out fast though. It kills earlier than Forward Air, and you can also use it to keep enemies away from the edge. Really good move with great damage. Great kill move.

Up Air: Zamus does a back flip and kicks above her. Good range, good speed, knocks up and can up-kill if done high enough (percentage and/or distance.) All around great move. Hardly any lag afterwards. Good damage on it too. Kill move.

Down Air: I don't know what to make of this move. It has crazy lag afterwards, and the damage only seemed ok. I don't know how to alter Down Air fall speeds, but I don't think that technique would make this a good attack. Knocks up I believe. I tried to stay away from this move. It shoots you down at like a 30' angle and I couldn't cancel it when i tried.

Neutral B: Stun Gun. Theres 2 charges, tapping B or holding for a short amount of time fires a weak blast that stuns for a split second. Holding B for a while or until it fires makes a strong blast that stuns for a fair amount of time. A strong blast will stun long enough to c-stick a Forward Smash. While the damage isn't very high, I found that using Neutral B is nice for keeping pressure on the opponent while playing the spacing game. When you land a strong blast DON'T CHARGE your smash, c-stick it or you won't hit. Unless you're sure it will hit or you have crazy reaction time, c-stick it. You can also land a Forward B, which might be a better idea, depending on percentages. This move has some crappy range though. It will travel about half of the new Final Destination when a strong blast, and about one Zamus less when a weak blast. It shoots slowly too. It comes out kind of slow and has some lag afterwards. But it does do damage. :)

Forward B: Kill Move. This move sends out your whip horizontally with a big ol' ball of energy at the tip. It shoots out a little less than a Forward Smash. Tipping this move is probably your strongest move, and its your highest knockback move. If you don't tip it, many times the whip will push your opponent into the tip, and send them flying, though not quite as far. Knockback decay is pretty prevalent on this move, so tip your first one, but definitely don't be afraid to use it. Its fast (if you treat it like a smash attack) and the lag isn't too bad. You could get punished for missing, but its a pretty scary move and your opponent would have to know you were going to do it. Sick damage, kickass move. This is also a Tether Recovery. If you're pressuring with whips, this is the go to move. Just hold off on it a bit if you're gonna kill with it soon. Note: Zamus cannot grab in the air. She air dodges if you try. So her aerial grab is not a tether, only Forward and Side B are.

Down B: Zamus' Third Jump. When you Down B Zamus does another jump and flashes blue. She jumps whichever way you are pressing (so don't push the wrong way :( ) regardless of momentum. You can jump left or right, and thats it. If she hits a wall or ledge while flashing blue she'll automatically wall jump off. This doesn't mean death though. Once the move is over you can still Up B, Side B, or use your double jump if you still have it. If you accidentally wall jump off the ledge you're trying to grab you can DI towards the stage and grab it, assuming you don't get attacked. But basically its not the end of the world if you wall jump. If you do wall jump though, your flashing-blue-timer is reset. Pressing A or B at any time while flashing blue will make Zamus do a sex kick at a downward 45' angle. The kick will not alter your trajectory. If you sweet spot this move (tip of her toe) it will spike downward. (Don't know if you can meteor cancel.) If you don't sweetspot it it will hit really hard and knock in a horizontal direction and go up a little bit. The knockback is huge. Afaik, it only spikes on its initial frames. I only learned how awesome this move is towards the end of my stay. :/ Also, I think the kick angles in the way you came from, not the direction you're going. Its a little fuzzy to be honest.
*I learned that Down B kick can spike from Infil.

Up B: Crazy Move. When you Up B, Zamus shoots her whip straight up. This is used to tether recovery. If used on an enemy above you it will hit them twice and on the third hit pull them downwards. This move spikes, but again, we don't know if you can meteor cancel or not. Its really hard to learn though. You have to be either above the ledge's height or far enough away from it that it won't auto-aim towards the ledge. You can also use it after an attack that knocks up to pull them back towards you, but I'll talk about that in a bit. This travels vertically about the same as Up Smash, but it has a really small horizontal range, probably 1-2 Zamus' wide at most. It will not hit next to you. Even if you can meteor cancel her Up B spike, I don't know how useful it will be. There might be some weird properties because it pulls you down. It would be nice is the spike happened after the downward pull, but I think that the downward pull is the spike.

Forward Throw: Knockback sends them forwards.
Back Throw: Knockback sends them back.
Up Throw: Knockback send them up and in front of you.
Down Throw: Knockback sends them more upwards and less forwards then Up Throw.

I don't remember killing with any Throws, but Up and Down are combo potential. She shoots out her whip about Forward B range so its a ranged grab. Her grabs come out slow, and are incredibly laggy. Missing shield grabs was the thing I got punished for most. Do not miss a grab. You can tell when its a good idea and when its a sure thing. Play it safe. You might want to mess around with Neutral B -> Grab instead of just going for a shield grab. If you miss a Neutral B, who cares? If you miss a grab, get ready to DI. I remember standing (shield) grabbing being better than dash grabbing, but test it for yourself.

**************************************************************************

"Strategies" (Quotations because I'm no pro, I could be very wrong, and some of this stuff is super noob.)

Anti Tether Gimping: I'm sure you've heard how you can edge hog a Tether Recovery. But if you haven't, here's how it works. If someone is edge hogging, the tether won't auto-aim at anything (because there's nothing to grab) and that person will get gimp killed. Zamus has an advantage though. Olimar has 2 jumps and a tether. Ivysaur has 2 jumps and a tether. Zamus has 3 jumps (one of which auto wall jumps), a tether, and another wall jump. Not only that, but Zamus' tethers are perfectly horizontal and perfectly vertical, so its easy to aim. (They'll auto-aim if they can.) If someone's trying to gimp you, you can use your Down B, your wall jump, or you can punish them hardcore. Keep in mind that your Down B kick can spike as well. If you have no other options, or if turns out to be really effective, you can spike them from under the ledge. You save your Up B until you're directly below them. If you Up B and hit them they will get spiked. I don't think you could recover from this without a wall jump/Down B. Maybe you could Forward B and grab the wall like in melee, but I'm pretty sure wall grabbing was totally replaced with ledge grabbing tethers. Naturally, someone's not going to let themselves get spiked (unless they're a stock ahead and want a suicide kill). Rolling from the ledge no longer hogs it so if you can scare them enough maybe they'll leave the ledge open for you. This is more viable than it sounds at the moment. Or maybe they'll drop down to edge guard you. If they try a Falcon/Marth spike, go ahead and spike them. You (probably) won't live, but neigher will they. You can save a double jump/Down B to trick them, and you can wall jump and Down B wall jump too. While its not the most advanced technique, Zamus will have a hard time getting gimped by having 3 jumps and a tether, 2 wall jumps, and a tether that can spike. If you keep mixing it up they won't know what to expect. Don't be discouraged, it looks like gimping tethers won't be too big of a problem. Sorry for the wall of text.

Grabbing Game: Much like how Samus can Smash Missile -> Grab, Zamus can pressure with Neutral B and then Grab them when they try and shield it. Very noob strat, but worth mentioning. You can shoot multiple Neutral B's in succession fairly quickly, but they tend to jump away after about 3 or so. Neutral B -> Grab will work once or twice, but then they'll either jump away or roll towards you. You can expect the roll and get another grab. If I can get pillaring down grabs will be really good for Zamus.

There's also some new game mechanics that can help out your grab game. The most useful one of these is the turnaround grab. If they are expecting a dash attack or something you can run past them, tap back and grab at the same time, and grab them from behind. Conversely, if your opponent is really in your face (Marth) you can dash away and cancel your dash with a turnaround grab. It uses your dash grab animation though.

Another good grabbing mechanic is dashing shield grabbing. Basically you can cancel your dash animation by shielding, and then you slide a bit, and you can shield grab while still moving forward. If Zamus' shield grab ends up being better than her dash grab then gg.

"Pillaring": For a long time I was playing around with a kind of whip-pillaring idea. Basically you have some moves that knock up (DTilt, UTilt, USmash, DThrow, UThrow, UAir) and Up B, which pulls them down. This idea needs a LOT more work. You can DI out of Up B pretty hard, but I could consistently DTilt -> Up B -> DTilt -> Up B -> DTilt. I also hit a few Up Smash -> Up B -> Up Air's from under a platform. Up B has a really small range though. Also, I don't know how many of those moves will fit into a combo and what the optimum amount of moves is and what moves fit best. Its definitely food for thought. Next weekend I'll try and play with this a lot more. PLEASE give me your thoughts and opinions, I'm sure every idea will help.

Up B Spam: If they're on a ledge above you, you can spam Up B about 5 times before they can DI out. You could probably Up Smash -> jump -> Up B -> ??? as well. This needs tons of work to make it effective too. Maybe this will be vital to pillaring. Who knows? But if you pick Zamus on your first vs. match ever this will work. Noob combo. You don't even need a platform, what a joke.

Up B-ing through the floor and wall jumping back up: Completely on accident I did this on FD. I got stuck underneath FD's odd ledge shape (I think i Down B'd, wall jumped while flashing blue, and hit the ceiling, canceling the blue flash) and I Up B'd and barely missed my opponent. Now I wasn't expecting this so I couldn't wall jump and recover (if you even can on FD) and i had no more jumps, but MAYBE if we're lucky we can pull a Mewtwo and grab someone through the stage. Spike them through the stage, nonetheless. Doubtful though.

My Playstyle: To give you an idea of how Zamus can be played.
When I first started playing I was all about whip moves. I was running away and out range-ing everyone. However, her whip moves have quite a bit of lag afterwards so I started to get punished for abusing them. I learned that pressuring with Neutral B allowed me to trick my opponents with grabs or setting up a kill move. I learned that her aerials are hot and that her "real" ground game isn't too bad. I ended up playing a few different ways. I would stay really far away and keep the Neutral B's coming until I could hit with a grab or a whip. I also played kind of like Sheik, with good short hopped (but its so high now) aerials and grabs and smashes (including Down Smash.) I also tried to learn how to pillar and how to get good at a vertical game. Up B's range is really small, so its hard. However, making your opponent go up, down, up, down, up, with whip laser noises the whole time is incredibly satisfying. I learned that spiking is really hard. After a while I found that Down B kick is really good. If you tap them with it while recovering, and they're at high percentage they will fly really far. That's all I can think of, please ask questions.

The Catch:
Zamus is fun to play and totally hot. You've got good aerials and long range on the ground. You start with some very annoying projectiles and can mix it up with the Stun Gun. But you must know: Zamus has some ****ty priority. If someone's DAir hits your Up B the move is wasted. Parrying Up B negates all hitboxes, but I'm not sure about other whip moves. Also, slopes suck so much as Zamus. If you're on a slope, your whip moves and grabs will go straight while the ground is slanted. This means that you will either be attacking the slope or attacking over your opponent's head. Stay away from slopes. Period. Overall we feel like she'll be the around the top of the mid tier. She's good, she's balanced, but there's nothing stupidly OP about her. Sounds like mid tier to me.

I'll humor myself by saying that I'll check back for question and comments. I'm no pro and anything I say is fallible. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I just want to inform the community and improve Zamus' game overall.

Infil's videos:
SSBB Character Expose: Samus and Zero Suit Samus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDB1rm40IEE

SSBB Character Expose: Zero Suit Samus (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37Cvs50SHM

I am in no way affiliated with Infil and take no credit for anything in these videos.

**************************************************************************

Afterword: A Work in Progress
-Up B: Turns out I was very wrong. Up B is awesome. Infil's video #2 is a great showcase. You can Up B spam without platforms. Also, the idea to Up B out of shield seems like it would be major. I can think of countless times this weekend when I could have used it, especially if it links to itself and links into pillaring. My apologies.

-Dash Attack: Dash Attack links into Up Tilt/Down Tilt. Its good. Don't get predictable though, or you're just begging to get shield grabbed. (Unless you mind game in a turnaround grab.)

-Pillaring: Pillaring reaches the next step of development with the Up B -> Down Smash.
I first got the idea from this showcase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsAMYc3k7uQ
She's way too Stun Gun happy, but it got me to thinking that with Neutral B and Down Smash stunning will be an integral part of pillaring. Then, I happened across this little bundle of joy randomly, (until now I haven't been researching any characters in particular) and I knew what to look for. Check it at 1:52 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVpVHoyt0F0 This is the future or Zero Suit Samus. I will be trying my hardest to play Brawl tomorrow and pillaring is at the top of my list.

-Down Air: This move can spike. Obviously :/

-Down B: You can Down B onto the stage directly from the ledge and kick from there. It won't spike, but you can use its horizontal knockback if you treat it like a sex kick to get back on the stage.
 

Big-Cat

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With her down smash, can she shoot past her spot if she's facing an edge?
 

The Great Leon

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Okay, otherwise, it'd be great meteor smash insurance.
I'm 99% sure it doesn't actually shoot a projectile. Its more of an animation including an explosion-shot that creates a hit box. However, I didn't test this specifically so there a small chance I could be wrong.
 

The Great Leon

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Is Up-B out of shield any good?
Up B has virtually no range horizontally. Again, 99% sure it wouldn't even hit. I don't see it being useful even if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be very effective damage wise. The only way this would be good is if it spiked on the way down, but I don't think it does. I'll make as list of anything you guys want tested and try it next weekend. Hell, I might be able to try it tomorrow, but we'll see how that works out.
 

The Great Leon

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Good stuff, thanks you for sharing!

Does her Down Smash stun much longer that charged neutralB?
It lasts at least twice as long. Neutral B's strong blast is enough for my reaction time and a c-sticked Forward Smash. Down Smash is plenty of time, you have time to think quickly or charge a smash.


@ BrianM:
I just watched Infil's vids and it turns out Up B has some range in front of you. I never hit with it, but we must've been spaced a little farther apart. So I'm definitely trying Up B from shield. Great idea. Good thing I left 1% margin of error >_<

@ Kuma0so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OYhhj8_cxs
0:52
 

Dobs1007

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Thanks for the post and links to videos. Great info keep up the good work. ZSS seems to have a lot of potential I was a Samus main in melee and will be a Samus/ZSS main in brawl.

[thread=135553]Samus/Zamus online WiFi Fun Tournament Check it out[/thread]
 

Ares And Enyo

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The down air I think is an interesting move and I'm not sure if you've come across it but after playing zero for a week I have seen it "spike" kinda.

Normally this move kills you if you do it so that you don't land on the ground. Well once I did it in the open in such a way that it hit on the top of wolf's head and it transfered the momentum to him and came out of it as if I had teched or something... it was weird. I'm not sure if I toad stooled it right after I connected or what. Still really dangerous as you can multi-air dodge now but perhaps the priority is high enough that it can be used on characters during recovery. All-in-all it looked really sweet and is worth researching.

Also about the slower fall speed on her down air; my friends seem to think that it is a result of having been hit up already. I'm not a big fan of this but I think they may be right. It does seem that if Samus has been hit up recently she is more prone to fall slower with her down air. The slower falling speed would make down air a good edge guard if we could learn to control it. A moderately easy to connect spike will help her ranking too.

Also have you been able to confirm or deconfirm whether or not the blue flashing frames on the jump flip are invincibility frames? If they are then her recovery could be ridiculous if you make use of the automatic wall jump and auto sweet spotting.
 

The Great Leon

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I knew I forgot to edit something in. Yeah I know about Down Air, Infil covers it pretty well in #2. The blue flashing frames aren't invincibility, I got hit out of it a few times. They are a visual so you know if you can still kick out of it and auto-wall jump.
 

Ares And Enyo

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no no I'm talking about using it as spike for someone hanging off the edge but actually in the air. Where it normally kills you. I used it in the air where it would normally auto kill me and because of the way that I hit wolf with it transfered the momentum and I lived. Could have been that I did from high up enough that the dair animation ended as I hit him - but not sure - it is worth checking out. It is pretty obvious this spikes but surviving this attack is the "big deal."
 

The Great Leon

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That sounds really dangerous, but I'll add it to my list. If you miss a tiny bit that could be insta-death, or if you land on the stage you'll get punished. I think a Down B would be infinitely safer in that situation.

Wait if say, Wolf, is on the ledge is Zamus on the stage or off? If she's on the stage, then yeah that's a good idea. Infil starts vid #2 with that. If off the stage, see above.
 

ph00tbag

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I feel like there's not as much lag on whip moves as you're saying. Watch the Claw videos. There are several instances where he hits a shield and is able to get in a jab combo, too.

Maybe I've never seen the effects of someone dodging it. I thought it would be a bit tougher.
 

The Great Leon

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Maybe I'm having a selective memory, but I remember getting punished for missing whips. I was getting sidestepped though. Hopefully they're faster than I think they are.
 

Ares And Enyo

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I know it is much better to do on an occupied target - that is really its only functional use. ie: dk doing up-b or something similar like that. I did with Wolf OFF the ledge - he was trying to recover floating in the air on his way back to the stage and samus flew down at him with down A in such a way that the momentum was transfered. This isn't what was in that video - I don't (or try not to) make redundant posts. I did from high up and the down A has an end to it - it could have been the down A animation ended just after I hit him with it and I had the ability to recover after that. This all took place with the FD behind us both in the air - no ledges were involved.

I can attest to the side-b being laggy. You were watching a match against DK so the lag was negligible. Against faster characters more developed approaches are required.

btw Samus is a hunter your argument that she is a ninja is illogical by converse error - the set of peoples that hate pirates is greater than the single set of ninjas
 

The Great Leon

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That could be. Its pretty ballsy to DAir off the stage though. I hadn't tried it, so maybe it trades momentum, or maybe you toadstool jumped. Do you remember if you got any vertical height afterwards?
 

Ares And Enyo

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yea I got a very little amount height after connecting with it - yea it was ballsy and definitely not something to do in important matches until understood properly but it could be useful as the down b spike is awkward and generally predictable/avoidable - if nothing else it could help mind games just being the fact the option is there
 

The Great Leon

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Iirc, toadstool jumps send you up kind of high. Sorry I misunderstood, I just couldn't bear to think of DAiring off the stage lol. Sounds like if you hit with DAir you lose all momentum then.
 

Ares And Enyo

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I think there is a sweetspot to it because I've daired and gone off stage and draged my enemy with me before too ... so I'm not sure if it was a sweetspot that dair has or just the tail end of it - it was too small of an upward gain to be toadstool ... will have to try again to confirm after school gets out of my way
 

BrianM

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It lasts at least twice as long. Neutral B's strong blast is enough for my reaction time and a c-sticked Forward Smash. Down Smash is plenty of time, you have time to think quickly or charge a smash.


@ BrianM:
I just watched Infil's vids and it turns out Up B has some range in front of you. I never hit with it, but we must've been spaced a little farther apart. So I'm definitely trying Up B from shield. Great idea. Good thing I left 1% margin of error >_<

@ Kuma0so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OYhhj8_cxs
0:52
I was pretty sure Up-B had some horizontal range, and I was thinking that Up-B out of shield would be good to begin some tech chasing, or if the person doesn't tech, to simply do it again and accumulate more damage.
 

James Sparrow

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
3,162
Location
East Wisconsin
Great post! Very informative.

...but why "pillaring"? What you're doing isn't really close to a falco pillar, more along the lines of his shine combos.
 

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,372
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Modesto
I don't know why "pillaring," thats just what we called the idea. But anyway, I'm pretty sure any time you hit an Up B you can D Smash from it, into a DTilt, UTilt, or USmash, Up B, D Smash... you might have to short hop Up B, haven't been able to play since this weekend though.
Although pillaring technically refers to a falco draining your shield, its started to been used to refer to shine combos. Zamus whip combos are kind of like the opposite, instead of falco going up and down, Zamus' victim goes up and down. >.>
 

JoeTang

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
74
Location
MB, Canada
It's not any time you hit an Up B that you'll be able to land a Down Smash afterwards, but your chances are fairly high. I've had a few computers get out of it.

I'm sure you lose some momentum if you hit someone with D-Air, but it's not enough to stop you from falling to your death. It can "spike" I guess you would call it, but the times I performed it, I always ended up falling faster than the target, though they did fall downwards.
 

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,372
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I understand that Up B -> D Smash won't work 100% of the time. The trick for combo building is to learn when it works, and what's the most damage effective. In Guilty Gear, for example, there's a lot of move that link together that you wouldn't think until you watch a vid of the combo, and then you have to practice practice practice to get the timing just right. I think Zamus is going to have a lot of this. I actually get to play today, and I have a big list to try. Falling Up Airs are on the list. They might be an exapmle of moves linking that you wouldn't think they would.
 

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,372
Location
Modesto
It is possible to tech the Up B, but Infil says its difficult as the timing changes with each increase in percentage, including each loop of the plausible whip combo. I'll also be playing with D Smashing while they're in the air (maybe coming down from a Up B). Right now the most important thing is thinking up as many ideas as possible and trying all the plausible ones. Even if Up B doesn't lead to horrendous infinite combos of ****, you can still set up a mean tech chase game with her tether grab, stun gun, and whatever else you want. Just thinking positively ^^
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Something for you to give a look into. I was playing in some friendlies last night, and found that pivot grabs are very effective for evading and punishing. Especially, because dthrow is such a great combo-starter. This, combined with Paralyzer and tech chasing out of Plasma Wire seem like really good ways to give Zamus a very complex grab game.
 

BANSHI

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
68
dont know if this has been posted yet didnt see it, but neutral B into forward B is a garunteed combo, that does the most damage and knock back i've seen so far
 

squarez

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
186
Those vids showed her moves nicely. Initially I thought ZSS was not going to be very good from reading some other people's impressions, but shes looking pretty awesome now.
 

Ares And Enyo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
161
Location
Tejas
Ok after playing ZSS for a while I think it can safely be said that one of her higher priority attacks is her dair. It is very useful for punching through jugglers.

In the air and off stage it has a spike and is only practically attainable after your enemy has knocked you up which causes the dair to slow fall, which basically doesn't kill you. Some more testing will be needed to be done on exactly how you need to be hit to initiate this slow fall dair, but it is powerful and though situational; it will be your enemy's downfall for not fearing it.
 

RedMage8BT

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
1,994
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Princess Peach's Castle
Ugh, thanks for this, but I'm not going to remember any of it when I'm actually playing! I can't wait to come up with my own strategies once I get a real feel of her moveset.
 
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