Dark.Pch
Smash Legend
- Joined
- May 13, 2006
- Messages
- 16,918
- Location
- Manhattan, New York
- NNID
- Dark.Pch
- 3DS FC
- 5413-0118-3799
People are now making tier list for this game. (keep in mind not everyone has their hands on the game) And the *** version has only been out for a short period of time. People are just blind right now. They think if a character is hard to use and can't be figured out, that they are bad. It's a lazy mentality. If a character has a gimmick they can get away with or can't figure out, they are good in their eyes. This is why I call nearly all tier list I see crap. (really this one) In the future when the game is in the hands of many, I feel the tier list will stay to be crap. The way people think when making a tier list is something I don't approve of.
Here are some common mistakes I feel people do ALOT when making a tier list or judge a character in general:
Play the character for a few mins:
People play the character and try out a few moves. if something feels laggy or slow, people judge it as it making the character bad as a whole. People focus too much on weakness more then anything. What about the strengths. How well you can use the characters strengths to cover their weaknesses. figure stuff out. Don't touch the character for a while, can't do something or judge by the naked eye and call them weak. People went on about how peach Fair is crap now cause it lags. I spent time when I had the chance to actually find out that you CAN auto cancel her fair. You can even short hop Fair and auto cancel it. But if I was to touch her for a few mins and move on, this would still be under the radar. And now I made my character a lil better finding this out and explaining how it is done.
Character has fast/gimmicks/spamable moves:
This is one of the big ones to me. So you find something that about a character that seems good. Quick. Some gimmick. You play someone and you win by doing it. What most people would do is state that this character is great and wins vs so and so. But here is what people need to ask. Do you seriously understand the character your opponent is using? Their options vs your character? If you do, do you know your options vs his/her options? And if you know that, what is the difficulty of dealing with set options. A lot of people don't ask that. That's why tier list are mostly crap in my eyes. A tier list mostly holds strong with characters that are used so much in tourney and place high. Cause it's all you ever see. So people would be ready for that more then anything. Anything below that is flawed.
Note: What I stated above can also apply to the loser.
Lose matches:
Human mentality. People don't like to lose. More so in the competitive scene. If you have a love for your character and they are hard to win with, you might run off to a character with more tools and gimmicks. This way, you win more, and feel good about yourself as a player later. (some cases you can still get your butt handed to you cause your opponent is actually smarter then you think, knows their options vs you and is not falling for day one tricks). While this is NOTING WRONG WITH PLAYING TO WIN, the price you pay is not seeing what your character might be able to do against said character. I don't care if you tried ten times. If something is hard, you can't expect over nite results. Easy things come quick, hard things come at a slow pace. There might be something you can do on a character, but can't pull it off. You get mad, feel like the opponent is just throwing out attacks depending on luck. You are getting hit. Feel stupid losing to hit. You are not thinking. Can't focus. THE HELL WITH IT, IM SICK AND TIRED OF IT. I TRY TO BE LEGIT BUT IT DOES NOT GET ME ANYWHERE. I'M WHIPPING OUT THE CHEAP CHARACTERS!
You never learn this thing that could help. You have no clue how it would have went. You don't know if it could have gave you a good chance to win. You have no idea if it would have change the match up ratio. There are followers in the community. If they see this, they won't even try. They will use them for causual/friendlies. Tournament time? Character is a complete waste of time. I'm only gonna use them against noobs so I can give my character credit on the result list like I actually did something big with them.
Skill level:
Now lets say the opponent knows how to use the character. They understand their moves and the likes. if they don't have any fundementals of a fighter, playing them means nothing to you. There is no planning, no baiting/ Pressure, mix ups, stage control, ledge pressure. Playing your friend that started 2 weeks ago is really nothing. That does not give you a great experience compared to someone who knows all is fundementals. I have people come to me saying they played their friends Peach and know what to do back then. I did not play like their friend, I know more then they do. And the result was me beating them bad. This is what people tend to use a lot to judge a character or match up. It's a bad way. The only thing you are gonna be tested on is learning day one gimmicks and beating it. Advance players of said character will not be playing like that. (unless they see you as a weak player and don't respect you in matches. Beat them for it and make them respect you.)
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The way a tier list should be made is by doing the opposite of what I stated above outside of asking those questions for the first part.
-Make sure the characters for said character actually know their stuff. They understand each others options.
- Make sure both players know their fundementals fully
- Make sure these players are tournament players. They have been to many tournies and travel a lot. Compete in them as well.
This is how I feel a tier list should be made. As well as stating how a match up goes. How well can one go through the reoster to get 1st. Based on this. But I feel a lot of people are lazy and its too much work. Really with characters that take a lot of time and effort. And the cause of this is human mentality. How you are seen as a player with your results. Your image. All this and more up in the brain decide all of this.
So if none wanna go through it....who will? Are people gonna be mad and debate about another list yet again. You gonna sit there on your PC starting at the list and let it rock. Follow what the high level players are saying cause they high level placing in tournies and know it all?
The game comes out next week. Wether new to the scene or not. You still have a shot to do something. Not let meta games for characters remain deal. Not have answers for these gimmicks and let people get away with it for free. if you are gonna lose, make them work for that. This is all up to you and your tolerance.
All this info can also be used to help you get better with your character. You can follow what not to do. Trust me, people already have gimmicks with characters. And they will use it on you. Take your time to research. Come up with ways to deal with it. Don't play as a flow chart. For the time being, you can get some clean wins against a lot of players in the phase of the game. Take advantage of it while you can.
Here are some common mistakes I feel people do ALOT when making a tier list or judge a character in general:
Play the character for a few mins:
People play the character and try out a few moves. if something feels laggy or slow, people judge it as it making the character bad as a whole. People focus too much on weakness more then anything. What about the strengths. How well you can use the characters strengths to cover their weaknesses. figure stuff out. Don't touch the character for a while, can't do something or judge by the naked eye and call them weak. People went on about how peach Fair is crap now cause it lags. I spent time when I had the chance to actually find out that you CAN auto cancel her fair. You can even short hop Fair and auto cancel it. But if I was to touch her for a few mins and move on, this would still be under the radar. And now I made my character a lil better finding this out and explaining how it is done.
Character has fast/gimmicks/spamable moves:
This is one of the big ones to me. So you find something that about a character that seems good. Quick. Some gimmick. You play someone and you win by doing it. What most people would do is state that this character is great and wins vs so and so. But here is what people need to ask. Do you seriously understand the character your opponent is using? Their options vs your character? If you do, do you know your options vs his/her options? And if you know that, what is the difficulty of dealing with set options. A lot of people don't ask that. That's why tier list are mostly crap in my eyes. A tier list mostly holds strong with characters that are used so much in tourney and place high. Cause it's all you ever see. So people would be ready for that more then anything. Anything below that is flawed.
Note: What I stated above can also apply to the loser.
Lose matches:
Human mentality. People don't like to lose. More so in the competitive scene. If you have a love for your character and they are hard to win with, you might run off to a character with more tools and gimmicks. This way, you win more, and feel good about yourself as a player later. (some cases you can still get your butt handed to you cause your opponent is actually smarter then you think, knows their options vs you and is not falling for day one tricks). While this is NOTING WRONG WITH PLAYING TO WIN, the price you pay is not seeing what your character might be able to do against said character. I don't care if you tried ten times. If something is hard, you can't expect over nite results. Easy things come quick, hard things come at a slow pace. There might be something you can do on a character, but can't pull it off. You get mad, feel like the opponent is just throwing out attacks depending on luck. You are getting hit. Feel stupid losing to hit. You are not thinking. Can't focus. THE HELL WITH IT, IM SICK AND TIRED OF IT. I TRY TO BE LEGIT BUT IT DOES NOT GET ME ANYWHERE. I'M WHIPPING OUT THE CHEAP CHARACTERS!
You never learn this thing that could help. You have no clue how it would have went. You don't know if it could have gave you a good chance to win. You have no idea if it would have change the match up ratio. There are followers in the community. If they see this, they won't even try. They will use them for causual/friendlies. Tournament time? Character is a complete waste of time. I'm only gonna use them against noobs so I can give my character credit on the result list like I actually did something big with them.
Skill level:
Now lets say the opponent knows how to use the character. They understand their moves and the likes. if they don't have any fundementals of a fighter, playing them means nothing to you. There is no planning, no baiting/ Pressure, mix ups, stage control, ledge pressure. Playing your friend that started 2 weeks ago is really nothing. That does not give you a great experience compared to someone who knows all is fundementals. I have people come to me saying they played their friends Peach and know what to do back then. I did not play like their friend, I know more then they do. And the result was me beating them bad. This is what people tend to use a lot to judge a character or match up. It's a bad way. The only thing you are gonna be tested on is learning day one gimmicks and beating it. Advance players of said character will not be playing like that. (unless they see you as a weak player and don't respect you in matches. Beat them for it and make them respect you.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way a tier list should be made is by doing the opposite of what I stated above outside of asking those questions for the first part.
-Make sure the characters for said character actually know their stuff. They understand each others options.
- Make sure both players know their fundementals fully
- Make sure these players are tournament players. They have been to many tournies and travel a lot. Compete in them as well.
This is how I feel a tier list should be made. As well as stating how a match up goes. How well can one go through the reoster to get 1st. Based on this. But I feel a lot of people are lazy and its too much work. Really with characters that take a lot of time and effort. And the cause of this is human mentality. How you are seen as a player with your results. Your image. All this and more up in the brain decide all of this.
So if none wanna go through it....who will? Are people gonna be mad and debate about another list yet again. You gonna sit there on your PC starting at the list and let it rock. Follow what the high level players are saying cause they high level placing in tournies and know it all?
The game comes out next week. Wether new to the scene or not. You still have a shot to do something. Not let meta games for characters remain deal. Not have answers for these gimmicks and let people get away with it for free. if you are gonna lose, make them work for that. This is all up to you and your tolerance.
All this info can also be used to help you get better with your character. You can follow what not to do. Trust me, people already have gimmicks with characters. And they will use it on you. Take your time to research. Come up with ways to deal with it. Don't play as a flow chart. For the time being, you can get some clean wins against a lot of players in the phase of the game. Take advantage of it while you can.
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