OwL
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2008
- Messages
- 40
The whole "Who's the best" discussion is about comparing...
Ok, next time I'll just ignore the thread title. Or just ignore the question marks. My bad.
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Mr.3000=The Best Sonic ever?!?!?!?
- Thread starter Xyro77
- Start date
- Status
Ok, next time I'll just ignore the thread title. Or just ignore the question marks. My bad.
The King Of Hearts
Smash Journeyman
yeah scracth that it says it in the title just me rambleing on but you should check this vid
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6hb4XIYmUHw
That has a lot of something special :D
The diddy kong one didnt really give him justice.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6hb4XIYmUHw
That has a lot of something special :D
The diddy kong one didnt really give him justice.
Anthinus
Smash Journeyman
Well, he is a great Sonic. He plays like KITO and CHRIS (people of my team), that guys aren't flashy, but attack in a very effective way. If you see KITO's play style, he don't miss attacks at all. They WIN, that's the goal after all...
I can say ASC don't makes Sonic (If you see my vids you'll see I do it a lot, BUT NOW I use it like 2 times per match... I'll upload some stuff this week)... Now I prefer Spin Dash and Fair to approach on air and my gameplay improved a lot.
Sonic gameplay will keep improving guys... I don't know if mr.3000 is the best Sonic (I really loved the "BANANA CONTROL!!!") and I don't really care who is the best. You are the best today, tomorrow you'll don't. My point is: The game is still a baby, let's see what will happen in some years.
I say the same when people talks about the worst character... Today is bad, tomorrow top tier (who knows?).
I can say ASC don't makes Sonic (If you see my vids you'll see I do it a lot, BUT NOW I use it like 2 times per match... I'll upload some stuff this week)... Now I prefer Spin Dash and Fair to approach on air and my gameplay improved a lot.
Sonic gameplay will keep improving guys... I don't know if mr.3000 is the best Sonic (I really loved the "BANANA CONTROL!!!") and I don't really care who is the best. You are the best today, tomorrow you'll don't. My point is: The game is still a baby, let's see what will happen in some years.
I say the same when people talks about the worst character... Today is bad, tomorrow top tier (who knows?).
The King Of Hearts
Smash Journeyman
awesome cant wait for your next vids :D your dair tutorial was very helpful.
Anthinus
Smash Journeyman
You'll like one against DEC's Ganny. 2 stock match, 0:36 secs, Sonic 0% with 2 stocks!!!! and great kills (Maybe my best match recorded) LOL...
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
I like 3000, but ppl are still on lucky for some reason. Awesome techs don't make you and put character here or sonic in that case. It all about outsmarting your foe and getting the upper hand.
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Mr. 3000 playss simply and smartly. He punishes everything that's whiffed with Sonic's speed and impecable timing. It's not flashy, but undeniably effective.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
ive analysed the vids he has up. and this is what i surmise...
his primary strengths are:
1. matchup knowledge. if you watch his 2 most recent matchups, youll see that methods he uses to fight diddy, are very different from the things he does against kirby. he has learned what does and does not work against every character he plays against, and uses that knowledge to his advantage.
2. approaching. he uses double and triple charge down b alot. he does this because it covers a lot of ground and as an approach, its about as punishable as MKs down smash. yea you can do it... but mostly likely you wont.
he also throws a lot and follows them up very well.
so yea hes the most successful sonic but as for the best... i plan to take that title as my own very soon.
his primary strengths are:
1. matchup knowledge. if you watch his 2 most recent matchups, youll see that methods he uses to fight diddy, are very different from the things he does against kirby. he has learned what does and does not work against every character he plays against, and uses that knowledge to his advantage.
2. approaching. he uses double and triple charge down b alot. he does this because it covers a lot of ground and as an approach, its about as punishable as MKs down smash. yea you can do it... but mostly likely you wont.
he also throws a lot and follows them up very well.
so yea hes the most successful sonic but as for the best... i plan to take that title as my own very soon.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Lol .
Browny
Smash Hater
So... 3000 can manage to beat sethlons falco yet again, and hordes of MK/snake users no doubt to get third, an he didnt use any advanced techniques, chaingrabs, flashy combos, broken moves, spamming or anything. He just played sonic same way most characters play.
Could it be possible Sonic isnt complete garbage? We all know what you think memphis so dont bother.
Could it be possible Sonic isnt complete garbage? We all know what you think memphis so dont bother.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
da kid if thats true we'll have to play soon. Bwahahahahahaha!
Sonic isn't complete garbage.
-_-;
Sonic isn't complete garbage.
-_-;
OwL
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2008
- Messages
- 40
Exactly! And then we have all these ATs (how2kill, how2combo, how2spindash) threads all over the place, yet the solution seems to be playing it simple and effective?
I demand videos of this Sonic ****** MK/Snakes.
Pero
Smash Apprentice
Sonic's not garbage some one is using him good like a few others. His use of the important things, over ride advanvce flashy play. Hmm...maybe just maybe...hmm maybe we have something...
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Sonic is not complete garbage, but the people that do the best with him have one thing that sets them above the rest: they can mind-game Sonic's kill moves. I noticed Lucky had a favorite tactic where he would space himself from the ledge (with his enemy on it) and wait for them to come up with his back faced to them. This way he could either turn and auto-stutter step a forward smash, or just jump and bair if they tried to come above him.
3000's last kill on Sethlon in that well known video also has something of a mind-gamed f-smash as the finisher.
Being able to do this is what keeps your enemies from getting to +200% and thinking Sonic has no kill moves.
Practically speaking, if you don't spend just as much time working on kill-move mind-gaming as you do on ATs and advanced combos, you will probably lose against any decent opponent.
3000's last kill on Sethlon in that well known video also has something of a mind-gamed f-smash as the finisher.
Being able to do this is what keeps your enemies from getting to +200% and thinking Sonic has no kill moves.
Practically speaking, if you don't spend just as much time working on kill-move mind-gaming as you do on ATs and advanced combos, you will probably lose against any decent opponent.
Pero
Smash Apprentice
Nicely put Toes mind games are really important. But i dont wanna change subject but Toes do u think a sputter step is really usful to learn?
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
It's like... a 5 minute investment of your time to learn (max). Integrating it into your game is a little more difficult, but I've used it on occasion... mostly against Pikachu's down-b and down-smash. Knowing how to do it is more important than necessarily having an immediate plan for using it.
If you play a lot of Brawl matches you'll probably just randomly come across a situation where you'll think to yourself "oh, I could have stutter stepped that and it would have worked."
If you play a lot of Brawl matches you'll probably just randomly come across a situation where you'll think to yourself "oh, I could have stutter stepped that and it would have worked."
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
JayBee
Smash Champion
Its nice to see a good sonic. shows it can be done. I hope to known as the best Sonic someday, too. at least in virginia.
Browny
Smash Hater
your sig is a lie :O
The King Of Hearts
Smash Journeyman
Cant say sonics complete garbage just have to keep a smart level mind and dont jump into the ****.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
I'm confused why 3000 doesn't come around on the boards
Pero
Smash Apprentice
ahh I c thanks for the info Toes, Really sometimes I do think aww my foward smash was so close. So It might actually help me.
Pero
Smash Apprentice
Because hes afraid to meet u mephis the best sonic ever :D
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Maybe he's read our posts and thought, "....No thanks"
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Probably. I would be interested in his input though, also Hella's of DBR. Analyzing video footage only goes so far. I've watched a few of their matches, and they both have a very different play style.
I would just like to hear some stuff from either of them.
I need to get some vids up...
I would just like to hear some stuff from either of them.
I need to get some vids up...
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Yeah. That would be great. I've started to use the dash attack as an interrupter after watching 3000's matches and it's surprising effective. I USED to do it but it got lost in all of the flashier techniques. I've started using a more refined version of my original style and it is SO effective.
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
I want 3,00 on the boards Anyway, how many wisn do we need to get to B or A rank with Sonic? I really just want the man to be a good mid- tier and I'm happy. Also, I think 3,00 doesn't like us cause we smell funny.
Anyway, how many wisn do we need to get to B or A rank with Sonic? I really just want the man to be a good mid- tier and I'm happy. Also, I think 3,00 doesn't like us cause we smell funny.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I think KaSR is 3000 in disguise.
Oh, I read a comment somewhere on some thread here, maybe this one, that AT's don't necessarily make a good Sonic, and that playing smarter > playing with AT's.
It's true. They don't.
There's no point in using spinshot or ASC all the time if you can't effectively create openings for your kill moves, just as there's no point in spamming Mortar Slide all the time.
However, Sonic's techniques (I don't really believe the spin cancels to be... "advanced") can be used smartly, as well.
What if 3000 didn't know that an Aerial Spin Charge could do two hits? What if he started incorporating a bit of ASC combos and fakeouts in his game, or started using side-B feints to bait moves and further pressure his opponent?
I want to see someone who can bring out a balance of both effective 'basics' (good knowledge of the matchup, chasing ability, reading/mindgame ability), while incorporating some of the techniques into their game.
It's true. They don't.
There's no point in using spinshot or ASC all the time if you can't effectively create openings for your kill moves, just as there's no point in spamming Mortar Slide all the time.
However, Sonic's techniques (I don't really believe the spin cancels to be... "advanced") can be used smartly, as well.
What if 3000 didn't know that an Aerial Spin Charge could do two hits? What if he started incorporating a bit of ASC combos and fakeouts in his game, or started using side-B feints to bait moves and further pressure his opponent?
I want to see someone who can bring out a balance of both effective 'basics' (good knowledge of the matchup, chasing ability, reading/mindgame ability), while incorporating some of the techniques into their game.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
..............................
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Well I know for like a month now I've been abusing the ASC so I could learn WHEN to incorporate it. I'm pretty sure I have its effectiveness down. Now I'm playing my style with it incorporated rather than using it for the bulk of my play.
And he's Snake. OF COURSE he should be mortar sliding constantly. XD
And he's Snake. OF COURSE he should be mortar sliding constantly. XD
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
What's wrong, memphi-poo?
Blapius
Smash Apprentice
I've got to agree with Tenki on this one. If someone were able to effectively incorporate the ATs, all while mindfully executing the fundamentals, they would indeed become a force to be reckoned with--it's just a matter of pulling it off. The game's still young, folks; we've got time to perfect the speed demon into a tourney-winning monster!
I'm not sure about you guys, but watching Mr. 3000's "simplistic" playstyle has been a bit of a revelation to me. I--like some others, apparently--have been haphazardly making ASC attempts, among other ATs. I now find myself going for more simplistic approaches, trying to bait, and including many more grabs. In fact, that's probably what I've learned most from watching those few 3000 videos: Sonic's throws and the resulting follow-ups are a great source of damage and control (Not to mention giving them a few whacks in the grab sends your moves down the 10-deep stale list so they're fresh for a killing blow).
I'm not sure about you guys, but watching Mr. 3000's "simplistic" playstyle has been a bit of a revelation to me. I--like some others, apparently--have been haphazardly making ASC attempts, among other ATs. I now find myself going for more simplistic approaches, trying to bait, and including many more grabs. In fact, that's probably what I've learned most from watching those few 3000 videos: Sonic's throws and the resulting follow-ups are a great source of damage and control (Not to mention giving them a few whacks in the grab sends your moves down the 10-deep stale list so they're fresh for a killing blow).
KirbyandSonicrock14
Smash Ace
How can be 3000 in disguise? And toes memphis is not your boyfriend man.
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
A wizard did it.
And of course not. Memphis is a girl. Look at his Zelos avatar. It's PROOF!
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Sonic's grab game is seriously underrated. I think it's because a lot of Sonics probably don't focus on it as much as they should even though it sets up for all sorts of edge-guarding, tech-chasing, and juggling.
I can dream can't I?
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Do we have a list on how many pummels we can do per grab based on percentages? Actually do some people break out faster than others? I don't think so....
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
We don't really need a list for that.
All you really need to know is that under 10 percent your not going to successfully going pull have a pummel and the throw, the rest is really instinct.
I would give an estimated guess that about every 15 to 20 percent you can get off another pummel starting from 0
maybe 10 for the first few intervals of 10
All you really need to know is that under 10 percent your not going to successfully going pull have a pummel and the throw, the rest is really instinct.
I would give an estimated guess that about every 15 to 20 percent you can get off another pummel starting from 0
maybe 10 for the first few intervals of 10
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Pretty sure it's only based on how fast people struggle. Unless people manage an instant grab release, I think you can get 1 pummel per 25-30% without them breaking out. That's obviously just for Sonic, I don't know how slower pummels work. But since that's as fast as a LVL 9 CPU can break out I assume a human player can't do it faster.
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