Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[Espy Rose]

If a sonic were to dair meteor people into a grounded spring, would he get an opportunity for followups? (similarly to springtrap)

Yes, but if the opponent is prepared, they'd have several moments before Sonic hits the spring to retaliate.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I hate that he no longer does the You're Too Slow, and C'mon Step It Up catch phrases, I bet he doesn't even do Now I'll Show You anymore, as ProtonJon would say, DISAPPOINTED!!!

ProtonJon made that Now I'll Show You and C'mon Step It Up a cool thing and now he no longer does it.

I also loved annoying people with the You're Too Slow, there is nothing like repeatedly doing that just to be annoying.

I also hate that they could have gave him some cool color swaps or that Metal Sonic could have been a thing, but nope, his color swaps still suck, again DISAPPOINTED!!!

 

[WaveDashCash]

I've been hearing so many good things about Sonic this time around. I'm really excited to get smashing!

As someone who REALLY wants to get into competitive, a lot of this is just like a foreign language to me at the moment. I've been trying to sort things out so that I wouldn't have to post some stupid pun every time I post and actually add meaningful content....

But I really want to take Sonic for a spin on For Glory mode and see how far my abilities have taken me so far.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Still even though he no longer does those fun quotes, I still want to play Sonic, I just need to figure out a good look for him, I'd like to use a color swap to represent Knuckles because Knuckles is my favorite Sonic character.

 

[Kinzer]

I dont see greninja being a problem for us tbh. They cant use fair to cover us approaching from in from of them, 1. we can easily sdi out of their jab combos, 2. water shuriken clashes with side B, and while they can recover with hydro pump we can just run and chase them down. Imo one of our harder MUs could be rosalina and rob

1. u wot m8? SDI, in mah 3DS Smashes!? Blasphemy! You'll have to wait until November 1st for this to be a relevant point Although the same will hold true for our opponents as well. And I fear by then we'll lose utility in USmash.

2. Does it actually, though?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i've managed to escape little mac's, fox, and greninja's jab combo's simply by holding down and allowing me to shield the last few hits and punish the combo finisher. And yea side B clashes with low charges shurikens when charged up enough. As for dealing with longer charged shurikens due to how slow they travel we can simply jump over them.

 

[Camalange]

I don't know if we're still going by the name "vectoring" but yeah, it's totally possible to escape jab combos. One method being what kc said, and the other is if say you get caught in the jab combo while in the air, you can "vector" (or SDI idk) up and away from them. I've done it a lot and it works.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Vector up and away from jab combos.

And add some Uairing to it too. Great stuff.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZiNPSF5LMiUOeoZ1kvCBc/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

anyone seen this yet? Sonic's landing lag data looks....sorta right though i personally think nair has less landing lag than this same with fair and uair, though looking at ZSS's "supposed" landing lag data frightens me.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, I took a peep at it. Still taking it with a grain of salt though.

Also does anyone else think Dtilt has more range? I feel like it's a lot better this game.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Dtilt can also jab lock when you hit with the tip. I remember doing dthrow i can after them, they missed the tech and i dtilt'd them then walked up and got a free grab.

 

[Camalange]

Just the tip...

Also Sonic's grab range is reeaaal.

 

[Kinzer]

I wish DTilt actually propped you forward. I sort of liked that about it. ;_;

 

[ROOOOY!]

Yeah, I took a peep at it. Still taking it with a grain of salt though.

Also does anyone else think Dtilt has more range? I feel like it's a lot better this game.

Yeah, same with ftilt, seems really useful for pokes now. Utilt has lost its wtf hitbox from brawl though.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I wish DTilt actually propped you forward. I sort of liked that about it. ;_;

It still moves forward. It's just insanely minimal lol. It feels safer than brawls, but operates differently. Also, I love that n-air can combo into stuff now.

Edit: I forget what the correct term is. I think heavy armor frames? super armor frames? idgaf. Anyways, is that completely gone from grabs? I've tried grabbing a few Sonic's out of spins online and have had a few people try to grab me. It always starts the grab then instant breaks out from what I assume is the grabber getting hit by the spindash. I'm going to assume it's still possible with added grab range from pivot grabs or characters with large grab ranges. Definitely a plus for Sonic though.

Double edit: On a side note, pac-man is completely unsafe because of how slow his hit boxes are on his dash and...side b? I assume that's his pellet eating recovery option whatever the f it is. His dash attacks can be acted out of instantly, but it's completely unsafe.

 

[B.A.M.]

dtilt is infinitely better imo. sets up grabs, tech chases, and its range is a huge plus.


On a side note: Did anyone know we have a 23% true combo that kills at 116%? LOL why is Sonic so boss?

 

[Kinzer]

It really does feel like the universal armor from grabs that was present in Brawl is gone.

Which I like, TBH. I hated landing an attack only to get stuffed. Ridiculous that it was even a thing.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

dtilt is infinitely better imo. sets up grabs, tech chases, and its range is a huge plus.


On a side note: Did anyone know we have a 23% true combo that kills at 116%? LOL why is Sonic so boss?

What combo do you speak of?
Show me.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Was it possible for the opponent to use our aerial Spring in Brawl?

Because it is now.

 

[Kupo Rose]

nope

 

[Tenki]

Uthrow seems to have a bit of a stronger launch power now. Totally throwing off my followups X/

I use down B as a 'delayed dash attack' now.

RIP ASCSC.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Uthrow seems weaker IMO. It's just the Spring that's less awesome.

BTW, GUYS: WE CAN TOTALLY CANCEL THE HOMING ATTACK LOCK ON

Spoiler

Go to training mode and set the speed to 1/2 or 1/4. HA won't lock on anymore

 

[Camalange]

Uthrow seems to have a bit of a stronger launch power now. Totally throwing off my followups X/

I use down B as a 'delayed dash attack' now.

RIP ASCSC.

hi

Bthrow and Fthrow kill now too, but earlier today I was able to follow-up Uthrow at low and mid percents with double jump Uair pretty effectively.

 

[Espy Rose]

I KO'd a D3 at 150% with bthrow. Holy crap.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

nothing will beat my quadruple uair KO on luigi at 37%.... i will never be able to recreate that moment no matter how many times i play.

 

[Tenki]

Guys, grounded spring doesn't just restore your jumps, but your spring too.

Ex:
Spring > high uair > bounce off spring > uair > double jump uair > spring uair

idk if anyone else already posted it, but I ran into this while just wondering/hoping for it and it led to a top stage kill XD

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Yea i posted about this awhile back. It feels soooooo good to do that to someone, i've done it about 3-4 times already with the first time doing it KO'ing luigi at 37% off the top of omega form 3D land

 

[Espy Rose]

Too slow, Tenki.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I had fun in for glory mode today.

http://youtu.be/eKQTR2GwE-A

Also, Sonic's throws. They don't seem to give a crap how fat a character is. If you're near the ledge at 150, those throws are killing. Love it.

Double also, we don't get our spring back after being caped by Mario. I guess that's fair. You should never be caped by Mario in the first place. Especially with auto ledge snap. Wanted to test it out and was sad to see sonic plummet to the blast zone.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i found some interesting new thing with sonic's SDC's. Sonic when he shields slides a bit it seems but when you try and do a pivot SDC he can occasionally get a huge slide in a specific direction. It's almost as if sonic does a B reverse while shields due to the momentum Spin dash has when it's sliding to charge up. I'll keep messing around with it and try to understand it a bit more but this could prove really useful for some fake out approach options and grab setups.

 

[Espy Rose]

I noticed that too with pivot SideBs. Pretty snazzy.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yep, I did test some of that stuff too and, well, you can insta-reverse SDJ out of it.

However, the insta-SDJ is so unreliable itself that I wouldn't even consider using it aside from trying to pull a cool gimmick to show off.

Heck, I don't even try to Spinshot nearly as much as I'm used to due to the controls being so unreliable themselves..

 

[XLR8TION]

Yea it feels like the timing to pull off a spinshot is a bit different.

 

[B.A.M.]

Uair ff> spring> aerial is a true combo 90s to 120s. We even get uair ff> spring bair. So sexy. What guys think of the new combo meter?and yeah bthrow gives no effs bout nobody. Soo good. I really do miss old asc though. This new one sucks in comparison.

Btw these new footstool dair combo/setups are sick

 

[XLR8TION]

spindash>footstool>dair


amazing....though I don't think it's a good idea off stage though Lol

 

[Espy Rose]

Yea it feels like the timing to pull off a spinshot is a bit different.

It's not.

 

[XLR8TION]

It's not.

o.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Guys, you should read the new info about HA and, most importantly, about SD/SC. Might explain some weird double-jumping stuff you might have ran into. It's like Brawl's Spring shenanigans all over again!

Also, custom moves. They mostly suck, but meh.

 

[ithrowthings]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here’s some questions/comments I’m having with Sm4sh sonic.


1) Homing attack as a recovery: I used to do this a LOT in brawl to recover but now it seems to send him hurtling towards the bottom of the screen way too fast. I know you only get 1 homing attack in the air now so is it safe to say that it should be saved for when sonic is closer to the stage and not used to get more horizontal recovery distance anymore?

2) Dtilt: I also used this quite a bit in brawl due to the minimal knockback for many combo potentials. Now it seems to do less damage, very slightly less knockback than ftilt. Has anyone found any practical application for his dtilt in sm4sh yet?

3) Tricksy kills: I got a kill using the old school spring with opponent to uair trick. I haven’t succesfully pulled off a SD to bair in this game yet. Anyone know if that still works? Anyone else have any tricksy kill setups with sonic that I may be unaware of?

4) Any advice on the Robin matchup? The main difficulty I’m having is getting Nosferatu’d out of my SD and punishing her rolls. I’m afraid to use my normal punishes on rolls because if I whiff I get a face full of sparkly double hit downsmash.

5) Back throw into a wall: Arena ferox has a wall that I backthrew my friend into and we noticed that the hitting the wall/floor animation appeared pretty far in front of sonic and on the wall at the same time. We did it over and over trying to see if a tech would land him in front of me but to no avail. Just a strange glitch I noticed.

6) Forgot to add: When I know my opponent is trying to shield grab and I am approaching from the air in the front, I usually tap A like crazy to use nair into jab combo. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn’t. It appears there is different landing lag depending on when I started the nair. Anyone have info on this?


Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here’s some questions/comments I’m having with Sm4sh sonic.


1) Homing attack as a recovery: I used to do this a LOT in brawl to recover but now it seems to send him hurtling towards the bottom of the screen way too fast. I know you only get 1 homing attack in the air now so is it safe to say that it should be saved for when sonic is closer to the stage and not used to get more horizontal recovery distance anymore?

Yeah, and even then it's incredibly risky to use it to recover. Do not release the HA below stage level (I think): you won't be able to recover. Also, it's not a good idea to use it without a double jump because you'll end up HAVING to use a Spring right after it ends and, thus, becoming predictable on your recovery.

IF (and only IF) you're recovering high enough, you can try to reverse HA in order to switch places with the edgeguarder. It's a neat trick and if not dodged properly, you'll either be able to put your opponent in a more disadvantageous positioning or hit a shield and be able to land safely on the stage (thanks to our increased mobility after the HA). However, if the HA doesn't lock on the opponent, you'll be sent straight down and away from the stage, so be careful when attempting this.

3) Tricksy kills: I got a kill using the old school spring with opponent to uair trick. I haven’t succesfully pulled off a SD to bair in this game yet. Anyone know if that still works?

Thanks to our increased hitbox on SDJ takeoff (I think), it's actually harder to go past the opponent with SDR and then SDJ to Bair them perfectly. It's still doable but it's not as reliable as before (unfortunately, because Bair is even more powerful this time around).

4) Any advice on the Robin matchup? The main difficulty I’m having is getting Nosferatu’d out of my SD and punishing her rolls. I’m afraid to use my normal punishes on rolls because if I whiff I get a face full of sparkly double hit downsmash.

About Nosferatu: maybe try to bait it and cancel the SDR with SDJ->HA, dunno.