Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

Camalange · Oct 22, 2014

I still suck at getting the right timing and everything, but SDJ > Dair seems surprisingly reliable. I like the usage of it by the ledge without actually diving off to edgeguard right as they're trying to sweetspot.

True Blue Warrior · Oct 23, 2014

Anthinus said:
I did a little compilation of Dair spikes and gimps. Quality of the vid is meh, because I got no capture card for my 3DS. But at least I can share with you the way I set up my opponents for dair.

Awesome compilation.

Redline! · Oct 30, 2014

How are people stutter-stepping without a C-Stick on the 3DS?

kid craft 24/sonic master · Oct 30, 2014

Not sure if it's been said but through sonic's pivot shield canceled spin dash he can extend do both a boost pivot grab and extend the distance his roll dodging can travel making it a pretty useful mix-up tool.

Camalange · Oct 31, 2014

kid craft 24/sonic master said:
Not sure if it's been said but through sonic's pivot shield canceled spin dash he can extend do both a boost pivot grab and extend the distance his roll dodging can travel making it a pretty useful mix-up tool.

I'm sorry KC, this sentence was a mess, but I think I've noticed this as well if I get what you're saying. I can't seem to get consistent timing on when to choose the amount of boost I get though. I run, go for a pivot Side-B shield cancel grab and end up getting a much bigger slide. It'd be great if I could properly initiate when I want the boost and when I don't... Sometimes I get the overextended boost when I'd prefer to stop on a dime.

Unrelated note...
At low-mid percents (Like around the 10% ballpark) Dtilt is almost guaranteed to trip your opponent. I've been doing it all week and it's amazing.
- Dtilt>Trip>Boost Grab>U-Throw>Double Jump Uair
Oh yeah, double jump uair combos out of Uthrow really easily. It's great.

I feel like there was another little thing I wanted to share but can't remember right now... I'll get back to ya.

kid craft 24/sonic master · Oct 31, 2014

Dtilt is amazing in this game. Literally the whole cast can be dtilt'd between 75-90% for a jab lock unless they tech it which we can then simply go for a tech chase fsmash or grab.

Sonic Orochi · Nov 3, 2014

Updated with grab and specials and SDR shenanigans

edit:

I've come to the conclusion that the reason behind this SDR shenanigans is due to a certain new mechanic that I'll explain further in the next few sentences. Sonic has two stances: normal, which is, well, your usual stance and Brawl Spring Bull**** stance (BSBS), which is when the game makes you unable to double jump out of a SDJ (similar to how we were unable to double jump in Brawl after a Spring jump that met certain conditions);

The BSBS basically means that you're standing on the ground but in a state in which the game thinks you're still in the aerial spin which came from an ASD or ASC. Therefore, any subsequent SDR you do while in this state will actually make that new, grounded SDR act like an aerial SDR (from an aerial Spin Special - SD or SC);
However, that is not all. Fastfalling a SDJ and doing nothing before landing will also trigger BSBS (fastfalling from greater heights so you can actually get out of the spinning animation before landing will not trigger BSBS, though);
Also, if you don't have your double jump available AND enter BSBS, you won't even be able to double jump out of SD's hop;
To add to that, if you fastfall a SDJ while in BSBS, you'll definitely lose your double jump (if you had it beforehand). Yep, jumping out of a SDR off the platform or out of SD's hop is just not going to happen;
Some examples that end being straight up BSBS:
- Fastfall while still spinning: SDJ, VSDJ, SDSH;
- ASD/ASC->land->full stop while on the ground;
- ASD/ASC->land->SDR off the platform->land->...->full stop while on the ground (the SDR off the platform CAN be jump cancelled - if you had your double jump available before the ASD/ASC. However, when it touches the ground again, it's BSBS all over again);
- SCASD (shield cancelled aerial Spin Dash);
- SCVSDJ2AAASDTINRAIICSYCTDAVSDJ2 (shield cancelled vertical Spin Dash jump 2 after an aerial Spin Dash that is not released and is instead charged so you can then do a vertical Spin Dash jump 2);

edit2: holy crap, I've edited this with more and more info at least three times. The more I delve into this mechanic the more **** I find myself into.

Sonic Orochi · Nov 7, 2014

Finished the custom moves. Maybe we should start discussing the uses for some moves now? Or maybe when the Wii U version is released? Maybe cover 2 or 3 moves per week?

I'll be updating every move with the uses I'm.. er.. using but feel free to keep posting about w/e.

Camalange · Nov 7, 2014

I wanna look more into this BS.

Scourge The Hedgehog · Nov 7, 2014

I love the name of it. BSBS. I really need to stop having it happen. Like pronto.

IReidYou · Nov 7, 2014

Sonic Orochi said:
I've come to the conclusion that the reason behind this SDR shenanigans is due to a certain new mechanic that I'll explain further in the next few sentences. Sonic has two stances: normal, which is, well, your usual stance and Brawl Spring Bull**** stance (BSBS), which is when the game makes you unable to double jump out of a SDJ (similar to how we were unable to double jump in Brawl after a Spring jump that met certain conditions);

The BSBS basically means that you're standing on the ground but in a state in which the game thinks you're still in the aerial spin which came from an ASD or ASC. Therefore, any subsequent SDR you do while in this state will actually make that new, grounded SDR act like an aerial SDR (from an aerial Spin Special - SD or SC)

That's kinda akin to brawl where you were locked out your double jump in a SDR after you shield canceled after double jumping. You can say it got 'buffed' in this version because they put more limitations on double jump usage after SDRs for some asinine reason. We just have to be extra aware now.

Regardless anyone know where/when the spike hitbox happens on dair? Still seems arbitrary to me even after watching the compilation vid a couple of times lol. That and training mode dummies are being too flinchy to test properly

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 8, 2014

it's right after he starts moving with dair but before the end of the move. Basically as long as you hit during the middle of the move it should spike.

Novaseer · Nov 8, 2014

So burning spin dash seems to have invincibility during the entire dash. You can use it to pass through smart bombs even. Note that Sonic must be on the ground when he releases the dash for the invincibility to work. Turnaround and jumping during the dash will cancel the invincibility.

Sonic Orochi · Nov 11, 2014

IReidYou said:
That's kinda akin to brawl where you were locked out your double jump in a SDR after you shield canceled after double jumping. You can say it got 'buffed' in this version because they put more limitations on double jump usage after SDRs for some asinine reason. We just have to be extra aware now.

Huh, I've never noticed it. Guess it really didn't happen that often, then.

Novaseer said:
So burning spin dash seems to have invincibility during the entire dash. You can use it to pass through smart bombs even. Note that Sonic must be on the ground when he releases the dash for the invincibility to work. Turnaround and jumping during the dash will cancel the invincibility.

I haven't tested it, but if that's the case, I think I was right about this: it's iSDR all over again. We might be able to test this further by using the Wii U version's stage builder..

Rakurai · Nov 17, 2014

I'm really confused by the Burning Spin Dash.

Though it can power through all of the explosive items, it still clashes with and is stopped by even the weakest projectiles, and Samus' Charge Shot just straight up hits him out of it. However the invincibility on it works, it's definitely not universal.

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 17, 2014

i believe that's because projectiles interact differently than normal hitboxes, where most of them have transcendent hitboxes (hitboxes that ignore other hitboxes though this doesn't apply when two projectiles hit one another).

Audrorius · Nov 17, 2014

Guys, I'm having a lot of trouble Spiking people with Sonic's DAir.

The few times I actually manage do Spike my enemy I find WAY harder to Recover than when I completely miss the attack or when I hit my enemy upwards or to the side of the stage...

Any tips ?

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 17, 2014

Your best bet with landing safer Dair's is to attempt it vs characters with up-b's that have a hitbox, like Marth or Mario. this way whether you connect the spike or not your safe due to the fact your Dair will trade with their up-b. As for landing the move more consistently i would say doing a full jump followed by timing your dair so that it hits the opponent during the Middle of your descent is the best way. I've managed to spike characters out of a lot of things like meteor smashing fox out of illusion or trading my dair with marth's up-b, as well as DK's up. Theres also a spin charge/dash setup into Dair at around 50-70% range and it's possible versus some character to do a spin dash/charge to footstool dair spike (though the timing is pretty strict and is character dependant)

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 20, 2014

BEGIN sonic
**********
Jab1
Hits on frame: 3.0
Hitboxes end: 4.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 92
Jab2
Hits on frame: 2.0
Hitboxes end: 4.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80
Jab3
Hits on frame: 4.0
Hitboxes end: 7.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 110
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 200.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 50
Dash Attack
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 21.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 125
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 240.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
F-tilt (normal)
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 12.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 115
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 210.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
U-tilt
Hits on frame: 7.0
Hitboxes end: 20.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 120
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 240.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 78
D-tilt
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 8.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 80
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 180.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
F-smash release (normal)
Hits on frame: 18.0
Hitboxes end: 21.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 106
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 420.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
U-smash release
Hits on frame: 19.0
Hitboxes end: 25.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 85
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 300.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80
D-smash release
Hits on frame: 12.0
Hitboxes end: 14.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 63
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 660.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 30
Nair
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 39.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 80
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 360.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 75
Fair
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 8.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 135
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 180.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
Bair
Hits on frame: 13.0
Hitboxes end: 20.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 420.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
Uair
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 16.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 82
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 396.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 91
Dair
Hits on frame: 17.0
Hitboxes end: 33.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 640.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
Pummel
Hits on frame: 4.0
Hitboxes end: 5.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80
F-throw
Hits on frame: 10.0
Hitboxes end: 12.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
B-throw
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 140
U-throw
Hits on frame: 22.0
Hitboxes end: 28.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 92
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 92
D-throw
Hits on frame: 18.0
Hitboxes end: 42.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 35
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 20
Hits on frame: 16.0
Hitboxes end: 22.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 48
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 560.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 48
Hits on frame: 15.0
Hitboxes end: 22.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 50
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 480.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
Hits on frame: 19.0
Hitboxes end: 22.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 20
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 630.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 45
Hits on frame: 19.0
Hitboxes end: 28.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 50
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 300.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361
unknown substate 0x21e
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 225.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 55
unknown substate 0x21f
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 100.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 270
unknown substate 0x220
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 275.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 55
unknown substate 0x23e
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 46
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 490.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
unknown substate 0x23f
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 46
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 490.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
unknown substate 0x240
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 46
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 490.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
unknown substate 0x242
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 1.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 60
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 40.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 60
unknown substate 0x243
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 1.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 60
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 40.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 40
unknown substate 0x244
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 1.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 60
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 40.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 65
unknown substate 0x246
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 260.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
unknown substate 0x247
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 260.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
unknown substate 0x248
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 260.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70
**********
END sonic

That was taken from Thinkamans parse dump of smash 4's hitbox data for sonic. He didn't include things like IASA frames or weaker hitboxes on multi-hit moves and what not but atleast with this we can accurately figure out our stronger moves and what not. The unknown moves are most likely his specials

Sonic Orochi · Nov 20, 2014

Thanks, I'll update the guide with this info later.

ROOOOY! · Nov 20, 2014

His tilts come out on same frames as Brawl IIRC. Lots of things look samey. Cool ****.

Sonic Orochi · Nov 21, 2014

Okay, some new stuff:

Spinshotting with SC and C-Stick is still in: aerial single charge SC -> hit up/sides on C-Stick. Soooo good..;
Ledgeshooting is back as well but it's not as useful: it's only worth using in a few omega stages and even then the move won't be as good as it used to be (not that anyone had found a somewhat decent usage for it, though);
Auto Spin Charge would be my down B of choice (so I wouldn't accidentally SDJ when trying to release a fast full charge SC) HOWEVER, it doesn't allow you to Spinshot with the C-Stick. Yeah, Sonic's custom moves are awesome;
Using a reverse Gravitational Charge when the opponent is offstage would've worked wonders if edgehogging was still in the game: reverse aerial SC -> pull enemy's recovery -> SS and grab the ledge. Oh well, so much for finding a good use for at least one of our customs (aside from Hammer SD);
There's an alternative way to do the Instant SDJ: single charge SC -> hit up/sides on C-Stick (basically the same input for Spinshotting but on the ground). It is a little slower than ISDJ so maybe we can call it an AISDJ (almost instant SDJ)..;

Oh, BSBS is still intact. Joy.

Camalange · Nov 21, 2014

Yeah, the second I tried Sonic on Wii U I immediately tested Spinshotting with C-Stick and it was glorious.

yes yes yes yes

Sonic Orochi · Nov 25, 2014

Found a Wii U nerf: momentum cancelling the Spring with air dodge isn't optimal anymore. It almost sucks as much as Fair. Uair was also nerfed.

The best move for that now is Bair.. and even then it still sucks.

Maybe that means that recovery time for our aerials have been increased?

Heartstring · Nov 25, 2014

Does anyone know how long it will be before we can get frame data for our moves? Some of the other boards have gotten frame data for their characters, and I'd like to have some data to dig my teeth into :3

infomon · Nov 25, 2014

Sonic Orochi said:
SCVSDJ2AAASDTINRAIICSYCTDAVSDJ2 (shield cancelled vertical Spin Dash jump 2 after an aerial Spin Dash that is not released and is instead charged so you can then do a vertical Spin Dash jump 2);

omg I leave the sonic boards alone for like 2 months and this is what happens

Camalange · Nov 25, 2014

infzy said:
omg I leave the sonic boards alone for like 2 months and this is what happens

burn it to the ground

True Blue Warrior · Nov 25, 2014

I

infzy said:
omg I leave the sonic boards alone for like 2 months and this is what happens

I too am confused.

Camalange · Nov 27, 2014

Cool (New?) Tech:

So I noticed something that I've been doing on the Wii U version but haven't really seen on 3DS. I haven't been able to do it on command yet either, but sometimes when I hit someones shield with a Spin Dash/Charge, it slows down the spinball momentum and I can do a jump that's more akin to a VSDJ as opposed to a SDJ.

It wears down shields more and keeps you in their face instead of flying past them. I've also been able to short hop that VSDJ.

My theory is that it occurs when holding forward from hitting a shield with just a Spin Dash/Charge, then jumping at a certain moment during the multi-hits. People I played against when I explained it to them noticed it as well and said that it caused a lot more hits to their shield than normal. It's sorta like that thing Wizzy would do with Sonic in PM.

It's Thanksgiving so I probably won't be researching this for a bit yet, but wanted to share before I forgot.

Happy holidays!

Sonic Orochi · Nov 27, 2014

I've noticed it as well but not exclusively to the Wii U version (although I haven't had much time to actually play the Wii U version during the past week).

I've never tried to jump during that slowdown, though. The most interesting part for me is that you were able to short hop that VSDJ even though it seemed that we could only do that right after landing and before starting a SDR from an aerial spin special.

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 27, 2014

Ive done that a couple of times and it works really well for getting a nice cross up hit on someone who reacts late to spin dashes.

Sonic Orochi · Nov 27, 2014

Huh, it seems like the knockback for the SDJ from SD is stronger than the one from SC.

That's why it's better to use SD at low percents and SC for mid percents when trying to do the SDR->SDJ->dair spike combo.

Camalange · Nov 27, 2014

Sonic Orochi said:
I've noticed it as well but not exclusively to the Wii U version (although I haven't had much time to actually play the Wii U version during the past week).

Ah, I see. I don't know why but it's never happened to me on 3DS. I first noticed it during matches at KTAR.

I've never tried to jump during that slowdown, though. The most interesting part for me is that you were able to short hop that VSDJ even though it seemed that we could only do that right after landing and before starting a SDR from an aerial spin special.

Yeah, I can't say for certain that it could be short hopped, but I think I remember being able to. I wish I had more concrete information and visuals. I'll have to get someone to test it with me as it only works on shield.

kid craft 24/sonic master said:
Ive done that a couple of times and it works really well for getting a nice cross up hit on someone who reacts late to spin dashes.

Definitely, which is why I think this needs to be explored more. I want to know all the uses/options out of it as well as how to consistently initiate it. I think it has a lot of potential.

Sonic Orochi said:
Huh, it seems like the knockback for the SDJ from SD is stronger than the one from SC.

That's why it's better to use SD at low percents and SC for mid percents when trying to do the SDR->SDJ->dair spike combo.

Really? That further piques my suspicion that Spin Dash Roll and Spin Charge Roll might be two different moves... But the biggest hole in that thought is the fact that the custom moves affect the properties of the other spin. Confusing.

The damage output I believe is the same though.

kid craft 24/sonic master · Nov 27, 2014

Our VSDJ's also allow us to get jab locks at mid %, though ive only gotten them with the small jump thats given to sonic through having burning spin dash.

True Blue Warrior · Nov 28, 2014

Camalange said:
Cool (New?) Tech:

So I noticed something that I've been doing on the Wii U version but haven't really seen on 3DS. I haven't been able to do it on command yet either, but sometimes when I hit someones shield with a Spin Dash/Charge, it slows down the spinball momentum and I can do a jump that's more akin to a VSDJ as opposed to a SDJ.

It wears down shields more and keeps you in their face instead of flying past them. I've also been able to short hop that VSDJ.

My theory is that it occurs when holding forward from hitting a shield with just a Spin Dash/Charge, then jumping at a certain moment during the multi-hits. People I played against when I explained it to them noticed it as well and said that it caused a lot more hits to their shield than normal. It's sorta like that thing Wizzy would do with Sonic in PM.

It's Thanksgiving so I probably won't be researching this for a bit yet, but wanted to share before I forgot.

Happy holidays!

That is neat. Two questions.

1) How useful do you think this would be
2) Can you do a video on it?

Gregory2590 · Nov 28, 2014

On paper, it sounds like just another pressure option for Sonic.

In other words, good

Camalange · Nov 28, 2014

True Blue Warrior said:
That is neat. Two questions.

1) How useful do you think this would be
2) Can you do a video on it?

Gregory2590 said:
On paper, it sounds like just another pressure option for Sonic.

In other words, good

Right, it's just one more mix-up to add to our spin arsenal. The fact that it's a quick way for Sonic to apply in your face shield pressure I think will really come in handy once we find out how it can be initiated.

I think I may be able to save a replay of it or something soon. Should be getting my friend's capture device this weekend.

Elaith · Dec 1, 2014

I gathered the information I found around the board since the game's launch if it helps any in terms of creating a catalog of Sonic's capabilities. For the record, this is all you guys, and not myself, and I apologize for any inconsistencies, but I saw a post about Sonic players' disorganized approach, and thought it might help out a little bit.

Sonic Strategies

- Up Air, Forward Smash, and Up Smash are reliable kill moves.
- Forward and Back Throw can kill at high percentages.
- Back Air is useful for both edgeguarding, and as a kill move.
- Dash Attack can be an effective edge guarding move.
- With proper approach, Down Air is an effective meteor.
- Baiting is the name of the game, though with characters that have an effective projectile game, such as Ness, you want to stay inside and keep up the pressure.
- Spin Dash is good for baiting games and can be left with a jump for aerial combos.
- Homing Attack is a good attack for disrupting some fighters, and can be followed effectively with a Spin Dash.
- Down Smash can be effective for edge guarding.
- Spin Dash can be canceled into a shield. Spin Charge cannot.
- A Spinshot can be done in the air by holding (or fully charging) Spin Dash then quickly hitting Attack or Jump upon release.
- A Spinshot can be done in the air by quickly charging Spin Charge then quickly hitting Attack or Jump upon release.
- A Spinshot can be done on the ground by holding (or fully charging) Spin Dash then quickly hitting Attack or Jump upon release.
- A Spin Dash Cancelled Grab can be done by performing a Spin Dash while running, returning the stick to the neutral position as quickly as possible, and immediately pressing Grab. This is a quick and effective way to do a moving grab.
- Using the default moves is the (by far) preferred moveset, but alternate moves can create changes in the playstyle.

Alternate Moves
- Burning Spin Dash can give the ability to safely clash with stronger projectiles in exchange for no hop and limited follow-up potential.
- Double Spring can be used to save your partner if you happen to misspace a spring drop to restore Up B, in exchange for lower damage and knockback.
- Stomp can offer a consistent spike in exchange for removing homing attack versatility.
- Surprise Attack offers more safety if you miss an attack and speed of recovery in exchange for range, power, and increased lag.
- Hammer Spin Dash offers burial with a huge leap in exchange for mobility and versatility.
- Springing Headbutt offers a hitbox in exchange for riskier play, low damage, less damage than the Spring Jump, and the spring doesn't stick to the ground.
- Auto-Spin Charge offers consistency of the Spin Charge in exchange for a lower charge speed.
- Gravitational Charge offers better edge guarding in exchange for your moves being telegraphed due to changes in animation and sound.

Strategies versus Specific Fighters

Ness
-Stay grounded.
-Down throwing Ness off-stage makes him vulnerable.
-Grabs and forward tilts on the ground. If you end up in the air, your safest bet is to be under Ness with an Up Air.

Diddy
- Up Smash can take Diddy out of Side and Up B.
- Neutral Air to apply pressure to a shield.
- Use Spring to escape as needed.

Bowser
- You can combo on Up Throw due to his weight.

King Dedede
- Fully charged spindash will return Gordos.

Little Mac
- Get him in the air and juggle.
- If he spams counter, abuse grabs and throws.
- Focus on spacing.

Lucario
- Punish and kill as quickly as possible.
- Chase down the early kill, even if you have to go offstage to do so. Down Air Meteor can help here.

Lucina
- Homing attack can disrupt her flow of play.

Mega Man
- Up Air will help Sonic immensely for the battle. Keep the battle aerial.

Rosalina and Luma
- If she throws the Luma at you, close for a grab.

Sheik
- Watch out for needle camping and be prepared to shield on your approach.
- Grabs are an effective punish.

Toon Link
- Approach at an angle.
- Juggle.
- Pressure. Leave no room for a projectile game.

Wario
- Homing Attack functions well as a punish.

Heartstring · Dec 1, 2014

Camalange said:
Right, it's just one more mix-up to add to our spin arsenal. The fact that it's a quick way for Sonic to apply in your face shield pressure I think will really come in handy once we find out how it can be initiated.

I think I may be able to save a replay of it or something soon. Should be getting my friend's capture device this weekend.

I'm aware of what you're doing and I know how to do it

Basically, you tend to slow down when you hit things, Of course we rarely see this because we tend to use a fully/high charged spindash. If you hit a shield with a low charge, you'll begin to slow down when hitting the shield and eventually stop (this is useful for crossups with downB, as you can essentially mindgame into getting a grab. I'm hoping I can make a video showing this).

Of course, if you press jump just before you stop completely, THAT'S when you get the VSDJ equivalent.

Camalange · Dec 1, 2014

Elaith said:
I gathered the information I found around the board since the game's launch if it helps any in terms of creating a catalog of Sonic's capabilities. For the record, this is all you guys, and not myself, and I apologize for any inconsistencies, but I saw a post about Sonic players' disorganized approach, and thought it might help out a little bit.

Haven't had a chance to read through the list yet, but I like the idea. I could see something like this being included in the OP.

G~P said:
I'm aware of what you're doing and I know how to do it

Basically, you tend to slow down when you hit things, Of course we rarely see this because we tend to use a fully/high charged spindash. If you hit a shield with a low charge, you'll begin to slow down when hitting the shield and eventually stop (this is useful for crossups with downB, as you can essentially mindgame into getting a grab. I'm hoping I can make a video showing this).

Of course, if you press jump just before you stop completely, THAT'S when you get the VSDJ equivalent.

Right, right. I guess it's only low charge? I've seen the effect happen before but never on shield, or getting that VSDJ out of things. Pretty interesting.

Can you really get a grab after it though? I imagine the cooldown after the spindash would still be too much regardless of the shieldstun, but maybe I'm wrong.

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