Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[Espy Rose]

You can still use aerials out of it too Anth.
Speaking of which, your combo is still intact. <3

 

[Anthinus]

You can still use aerials out of it too Anth.
Speaking of which, your combo is still intact. <3

Can't be done with dash attack anymore, things are different this time around. You can do it with the last hit of Nair at high percentages.

I've modified my dair edgeguard too. Send someone offstage with Dthrow or Dtilt and then SH> Dair>DJ>Spring... Is godlike to spike and recover. The sweetspot seems to be under Sonic's shoe at the begining of the move. I love this Dair more than Brawl <3 <3 <3

And probably this was said before and I can't remember if HA behave that way in Brawl: If you hit someone with HA not facing the opponent you will knock them in that direction instead. I did a B reverse out of the edge and the opponent that was edgeguarding ended off stage. Confusing at first but really cool.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Throwing in my .02 as this went from amusing to overdone. I'll be honest. It may not be your intention, but that's how you're probably coming off to a large number of people.

Brawl Sonic's gathered and talked like a brotherhood. One can see it as arrogance, but I think it's generally accepted here that you had to earn your place when getting into deep discussions pertaining to the character we've all put insane amounts of time on.

I personally don't think it's enough to troll you over, but myself and apparently others have seen and read your posts like you have a superiority complex when it comes to sonic in smash 4.

Which is fine. You'll see a lot of people here like that. The difference is you just haven't earned it yet. I just don't think you're taking a smart approach when it comes to discussing things here.

All of this is silly though. If you don't like how he's treating you, just ignore it and feel superior in the fact that you don't have a creepy pony obsession. Yes, I still think you're all F'ing bizarre with your pony love.

Fresh starts all around I say. Stop with the *****ing. Smash 4 is out and Sonic is fun to play. So be happy and ****.

It probably was not until I actually decided to dunk on Espy.

This isn't a secret club. Anyone can get Smash, and anyone can play as Sonic. Every bit of information is valid, and if you disagree, whether by factual confirmation or a massive ego that tells you only you can discuss a character in-depth, you need a valid argument. You don't get free passes to logic simply by being an older Sonic player.

Smash 4 is different, and while Sonic retains much of his move set, he's still a different character simply because Smash 4 is different and so are his opponents. Nobody has an advantage over anyone else in having the ability to provide insight on all of the new things that lay before us. It's a new slate. Which is why I propose we drop the **** measuring contest altogether on who has some inherent "right" to speak on something or not.

Superiority-complex is certainly not one of my issues, though I sense it in droves from the "brotherhood".

In any case, Sonic related, I'm trying to gauge when Nair is a better related finisher to a spin jump combo. It would seem that uair at least sets you up for a second jump to follow up, where as nair tends to have pretty low knock back and gives the enemy a few frames after the hit to strike you. Any insight on optimal spin combo aerial finishers?

 

[Espy Rose]

I think I love you. You may be the biggest, most arrogant, self-inflated, over-entitled stick in the mud since Brawl Marth boards, but you're ours. I've been waiting for this day for 6 years. <3

Assuming it still does around 10-11% in full, fair is the best for damage. From what I played, nair is still best for mid/high percentage follow ups on the land shark, or for when you feel they won't be prepared for it at higher percents. The latter can even lead into Uair for juggles. Uair for juggling/trying to bait out early vertical KOs, and bair for the KO at higher percentages barring distance relative to the blast zones. Landing it from a SDJ is kinda hard though. Better to do it straight from the SDR.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

I have a question not related to Sonic's move change, but his voice change. I noticed that a lot of his voice clips were taken from other Sonic games. Like when he does his final smash, he says "Super Sonic Style", which is taken from Sonic Generations. Are there any voice clips that're unique to Smash4 or are they all recycled?

 

[Espy Rose]

Not sure. His taunts and victory scenes do sound new though.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

And probably this was said before and I can't remember if HA behave that way in Brawl: If you hit someone with HA not facing the opponent you will knock them in that direction instead. I did a B reverse out of the edge and the opponent that was edgeguarding ended off stage. Confusing at first but really cool.

So.. you probably would have died if he had just air dodged the HA?

But, yeah, I noticed that too but I think it sucks, actually.

The main reason I had to B reverse the HA was to position myself so I could followup with a bair to edgeguard but now that's been rendered useless..

 

[RedrappeR]

Well, maybe you're right in that I often try to force people to be confronted with their faults allowing the majority to witness it for themselves. Sending an individual message, in my opinion, is not always very effective in making a point because you have nobody else to corroborate what you say. Even if I risk being the only wrong person in the room, I am not ashamed of my own opinions. I'm pretty sure that your opinion on my handling of a conversation isn't very meaningful, and neither is your age relevant to mine, so I'll ignore those.



This is utterly your [wrong] perception. My goal has been 100% to share the material of the game before it came to the masses, with every effort possible. I've declared at nearly every corner that I am not a professional, and yet still you manage to misinterpret me as trying to be all-knowing 100% vindicated in-all-things-competitive? Sorry, but it is not my responsibility to guide you in to how you should read posts less aggressive-minded. I'd say a very large majority of people were able to properly deduce that I simple meant to inform, and that's where it stopped. Aside from that I'm an opinionated human like anyone else.



Ditto.



Lol, "here, I'mma bash you publicly for bashing someone I like publicly like a total hypocrite and then if you try to respond then you lose." Childish nonsense.

Okay, well first off I don't even know who the hell Espy is-- I said what I said to you because I felt obligated to, being that a majority feel this way about you and I'd rather you know, then have to find out the hard way.

Secondly, You did EXACTLY what I told you not to do, because again, it would make YOU look like a defensive moron, which you now do. Do you have some degenerative eye disease that prevents from reading whatever it is you post? Because you sound like an idiot. Nobody's misinterpreting how your posting things or what you're saying-- its the way your saying **** in your posts that's pissing people off. And then when we confront you about it(which I did in the most succinct, less ****ty way possible but you had to get your feelings hurt because of COURSE YOU'RE PRIDE IS ON THE LINE) you get angry. Didn't I say you seem REALLY jazzed about your ego?

And lastly, look at the way you write? I mean seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you're AGGRESSIVELY trying to be "holier than though". This is an actual sentence you pieced together for a board filled with people who like Sonic the ****ing hedgehog.

"You're creating the vicious cycle yourself, which means it's utterly irrelevant the reasons you state why you're acting like a Smash jock, because you would do it anyway."

You need a pipe professor and a robe? Maybe a chalkboard?

Aren't you the idiot who tweeted out weeks ago that "Mewtwo is the game just see."

I know it's really hard to understand, and you're going to be SEETHING with rage after this, but I was sincerely hoping you would take what I said, reread your posts for half a second, and attempt to not come off like an ass to everyone-- so that people would go "Okay, people told him, maybe he'll make an effort." But no.

And you just proved my point. I'm not some illogical 13 year old message board child, Google me up. I've always tried to help people integrate within the SF community or otherwise, and I have the experience here, You do not. So if you don't want to take my advice, that's fine, but what I'm telling you IS true and it IS going to bite you in the ass more than one way. Coming from the dude with 10 years in this ****. If you don't like how I talk? Fine. But you're going to get eaten alive at an EVO, or anywhere in SoCal if you so choose to take this seriously.

 

[RedrappeR]

It probably was not until I actually decided to dunk on Espy.

This isn't a secret club. Anyone can get Smash, and anyone can play as Sonic. Every bit of information is valid, and if you disagree, whether by factual confirmation or a massive ego that tells you only you can discuss a character in-depth, you need a valid argument. You don't get free passes to logic simply by being an older Sonic player.

Smash 4 is different, and while Sonic retains much of his move set, he's still a different character simply because Smash 4 is different and so are his opponents. Nobody has an advantage over anyone else in having the ability to provide insight on all of the new things that lay before us. It's a new slate. Which is why I propose we drop the **** measuring contest altogether on who has some inherent "right" to speak on something or not.

Superiority-complex is certainly not one of my issues, though I sense it in droves from the "brotherhood".

Are you that blind? Seriously, read this ****ing thing. Do you need a soapbox? You're defensive as hell, but bottom line and mostly everyone has said it, you come off like an ass. Either take the advice, or keep coming off like an ass, which will result in the majority of the community disliking you.

EDIT: I really wish we didn't censor curse words. When I get angry all I see is star things everywhere.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Too salty.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Not sure if it's been added but sonic's Dair meteor smash can definitely lead to a footstool KO and that landing on a grounded spring also restores your Up-B again so up throw spring uair > grounded spring uair > double jump uair > to spring uair can be done and will KO as early as 37% on some stages like Mario 3D land Omega form. (assuming the opponent gets launched or is high above the stage when our trying this)

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Where exactly is the spike hitbox on the d-air? I haven't messed with it much, but I keep assuming it's the hitbox from brawl that sent people horizontally, but it clearly isn't lol. It just sends them upwards on this game.

 

[Anthinus]

So.. you probably would have died if he had just air dodged the HA?

But, yeah, I noticed that too but I think it sucks, actually.

The main reason I had to B reverse the HA was to position myself so I could followup with a bair to edgeguard but now that's been rendered useless..

Yeah, It's super risky and shouldn't be used from the edge... Actually I wanted to do a normal HA out of the edge but it reversed. That's why I got kind of lost after the hit.

I totally agree its not very useful (maybe to position your opponent in different directions by reversing b), but looks cool if you like to mix stuff.

EDIT:

Where exactly is the spike hitbox on the d-air? I haven't messed with it much, but I keep assuming it's the hitbox from brawl that sent people horizontally, but it clearly isn't lol. It just sends them upwards on this game.

Dair's spike is in Sonic's shoe at the first frames of the move. The victim should be under Sonic for Dair to spike, otherwise the opponent will be send upwards.

 

[Espy Rose]

Hey redders, don't worry about it. Zippy just loves his spaghetti.

Quick question, anyone understand why sometimes, downb/sideb SDRs only go half as high? I was getting it but it was very inconsistent.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey redders, don't worry about it. Zippy just loves his spaghetti.

Quick question, anyone understand why sometimes, downb/sideb SDRs only go half as high? I was getting it but it was very inconsistent.

And here, I thought I was the only one noticing that my SDJs weren't going as high as usual.

I wonder if it has anything to do with hitting people on the way in either his SDR or the SDJ. It would make me wonder if Nintendo actually paid attention to the fact Sonic slows down when he hits people; so, he won't carry as much momentum upwards when he jumps if having slowed down in the process.

 

[Espy Rose]

It has nothing to do with hitting people. I would sideB, hold back during the hop, then jump, and sometimes it'd do the half jump.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

From what I've tested, the half-height SDJ only occurs when you jump as soon as you touch the ground (be it from an aerial SD/SC or the hop from SD).

I'll add the meteor dair (lol I considered it as common knowledge by now) and, hey, new AT (check the OP)!

We need more people messing around with SD reversals. We slide so much now it's not even funny.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Okay, well first off I don't even know who the hell Espy is-- I said what I said to you because I felt obligated to, being that a majority feel this way about you and I'd rather you know, then have to find out the hard way.

Secondly, You did EXACTLY what I told you not to do, because again, it would make YOU look like a defensive moron, which you now do. Do you have some degenerative eye disease that prevents from reading whatever it is you post? Because you sound like an idiot. Nobody's misinterpreting how your posting things or what you're saying-- its the way your saying **** in your posts that's pissing people off. And then when we confront you about it(which I did in the most succinct, less ****ty way possible but you had to get your feelings hurt because of COURSE YOU'RE PRIDE IS ON THE LINE) you get angry. Didn't I say you seem REALLY jazzed about your ego?

And lastly, look at the way you write? I mean seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you're AGGRESSIVELY trying to be "holier than though". This is an actual sentence you pieced together for a board filled with people who like Sonic the ****ing hedgehog.

"You're creating the vicious cycle yourself, which means it's utterly irrelevant the reasons you state why you're acting like a Smash jock, because you would do it anyway."

You need a pipe professor and a robe? Maybe a chalkboard?

Aren't you the idiot who tweeted out weeks ago that "Mewtwo is the game just see."

I know it's really hard to understand, and you're going to be SEETHING with rage after this, but I was sincerely hoping you would take what I said, reread your posts for half a second, and attempt to not come off like an *** to everyone-- so that people would go "Okay, people told him, maybe he'll make an effort." But no.

And you just proved my point. I'm not some illogical 13 year old message board child, Google me up. I've always tried to help people integrate within the SF community or otherwise, and I have the experience here, You do not. So if you don't want to take my advice, that's fine, but what I'm telling you IS true and it IS going to bite you in the *** more than one way. Coming from the dude with 10 years in this ****. If you don't like how I talk? Fine. But you're going to get eaten alive at an EVO, or anywhere in SoCal if you so choose to take this seriously.

Are you that blind? Seriously, read this ****ing thing. Do you need a soapbox? You're defensive as hell, but bottom line and mostly everyone has said it, you come off like an ***. Either take the advice, or keep coming off like an ***, which will result in the majority of the community disliking you.

EDIT: I really wish we didn't censor curse words. When I get angry all I see is star things everywhere.

Im not really concerned about my in-person image, I'm quite sociable, and like everyone my persona online tends to differ from who I am in real life.

In any case, I'm over it and you should be too, I realized I much prefer talking about Sonic than talking about my or your personality, so just drop it.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So, yeah, it seems that our double jump shenanigans really stepped its game up.

Turns out that if you shield cancel an aerial SD (or shield cancel a charge jump from an aerial SD), the game will consider any following SDR (from SD or SC) to be a SDR from a ASD/ASC.. i.e.: you can't jump out of it.

Unless you jump at least once and touch the ground again.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Thanks, Anthinus. I'll have to mess with it some more. I'm super inconsistent with it. Anyone have a video handy of the d-air spike? I adapt quicker from seeing as opposed to reading lol.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Thanks, Anthinus. I'll have to mess with it some more. I'm super inconsistent with it. Anyone have a video handy of the d-air spike? I adapt quicker from seeing as opposed to reading lol.

I can take one super quick, give me a minute.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sonic's Dair spikes during the beginning half of the move but NOT at the very beginning I've landed it consistently enough to confirm it. You also need to hit with his lower body I've spiked someone while facing the opposite direction as well as spiked someone with landing an onstage dair so the hitbox does have some type of disjoint to it.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Guys, if you're recovering low: don't momentum cancel with Fair.

Just.. don't.

 

[GenericSonicFanName]

JBrockPony is damn good at Meteor Smashes. check the video thread for his macthes.

Spike while still on stage.

 

[Espy Rose]

Momentum cancelling is pretty much pointless Orochi. You shouldn't be doing it to begin with.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Why not? It's not like we can do anything else in that situation, really.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Making a thread on it...

 

[Camalange]

I'm assuming Sonic no longer gets the horizontal distance boost from spring > fair?

 

[Espy Rose]

I think he does, but I wasn't particularly paying attention to it.
Orochi: Works both ways then. I'd rather be uncommitted to a fair if the opponent has projectile snipes.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

He gets the boost alright, but Fair's recovery is longer now so you'll just find yourself spinning in front of the ledge and falling to your doom instead of saving yourself.

Use Uair or even Bair. Faster recoveries on these, apparently.

In a case of low Springing recovery, if the enemy hits us with a projectile, it may potentially help us, I guess. And, anyways, it's also possible to cancel the momentum with an air dodge so you'll avoid the projectile as well (but I haven't tested if its recovery is any better than a Fair).

 

[Camalange]

Airdodges I generally feel are really unsafe while recovering. Really ease to read and punish, whereas Uair most likely has less cooldown and protects with a hitbox above you. Good to know that we still get a boost though, I'll have to confirm it myself in the lab.

 

[kj22]

Soooo...I see how sonic mains like to treat each other xD


Question: is up smash actually a kill move now?
And can you still repeatedly dair on spring shenanigans?
Bair/fsmash Still pretty much the same? (Duration wise, can you cross up bair to beat spotdodges*
Aerial Down B still hits multiple times?

 

[Camalange]

Question: is up smash actually a kill move now?
And can you still repeatedly dair on spring shenanigans?
Bair/fsmash Still pretty much the same? (Duration wise, can you cross up bair to beat spotdodges*
Aerial Down B still hits multiple times?

Yes.
Yes.
No. Fsmash is about the same, but bair has increased landing lag. I can still get away with punishing spotdodges with it but it's definitely more of a risk and a commitment now.
Yes.

 

[Kinzer]

Yes.
Yes.
No. Fsmash is about the same, but bair has increased landing lag. I can still get away with punishing spotdodges with it but it's definitely more of a risk and a commitment now.
Yes.

Does it really, though? Something about how I'm unable to ASCSC makes me use it less and less this game. The few times I'd use SC, it'd be on the ground, and it was then I noticed that the multi-hit properties are on a grounded SCSDR (Spin Charge Spin Dash Roll (I'm honestly in favor of just shortening this to SCR (Spin Charge Roll))). So does the aerial version act similar to what it did in Brawl?

Edit: Why is bolding in quotes so much more difficult to spot now? I had to underline the part I'm trying to quote to make it obvious what I'm asking about.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sometimes I want to bonk everyone's heads together.
Anyway, think another problematic fight may be Greninja.
Fun character to play for sure thugh.

 

[IzzyWright]

Good to see Sonic mains are still maladjusted.

 

[PolarPanda]

I wasn't expecting to see any dramatic posts on a sonic thread. Wait...

 

[Camalange]

Does it really, though? Something about how I'm unable to ASCSC makes me use it less and less this game. The few times I'd use SC, it'd be on the ground, and it was then I noticed that the multi-hit properties are on a grounded SCSDR (Spin Charge Spin Dash Roll (I'm honestly in favor of just shortening this to SCR (Spin Charge Roll))). So does the aerial version act similar to what it did in Brawl?

I'm near positive it does. I was doing some testing last night and I think you get at least one extra hit from holding forward during ASC. Definitely doesn't seem as crazy as Brawl's though.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

If a sonic were to dair meteor people into a grounded spring, would he get an opportunity for followups? (similarly to springtrap)

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I dont see greninja being a problem for us tbh. They cant usr fair to cover us approaching from in from of them, we can easily sdi out of their jab combos, water shuriken clashes with side B, and while they can recover with hydro pump we can just run and chase them down. Imo one of our harder MUs could be rosalina and rob