Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Patrick324]

What I think of the new DLC,

 

[Zult]

There's a difference between taking things at face value and raw pessimism.

They haven't shown us anything that looks like an easy way to kill. This would be a massive problem if he doesn't have any, correct?



This bait? NVM, answering anyway.

Asides from killing, Corrin actually doesn't look like he has a really good way to deal with people offstage. Ignore the raw power for a moment... F2 airdodges ruin everything, remember? All of your options while on the stage cover mostly the same area, and offstage your options are either weak, telegraphed, or just stupid to even try. A lot of edgeguarding comes down to ledge snap vulnerability, and Corrin can't readily abuse this. Either Corrin has to space himself and give the opponent a free high ledge snap (no vulnerability whatsoever by the way) or sit on the ledge and do next to nothing about people recovering low. TBH a Dtilt would only help them...



Explain. Marth and Roy have a ton of ways to close out stocks, but none are reliable. You telling me that you can rely on an Fsmash?

Japan doesn't think terribly highly of Pikachu, and that's one of twenty characters with significant killing problems. Odds most certainly aren't good.

Marth's got above average airspeed and way above average acceleration in SSB4, on top of objectively longer standing grab reach and low starup (for a swordsman at least) on his aerials. Assuming Marth was like this in Brawl, it doesn't take a genius to see why it'd be more effective on him. Unless Corrin's literally Brawl Marth (lolno) it's not going to be anywhere as good.

Not all dash attacks are highly punishable. Just one less option... And multihits are quite easy to DI, wouldn't expect any true follow-ups.

The trailers, dude. Somebody posted a pic of the standing grab a few pages back too, definitely ain't no Marth grab.

You're doing a terrible job of explaining why what you've said is any less baseless...



I don't see good tomahawking qualities in Corrin... Using a kill throw requires getting a grab in the first place.

If Pit's honest then Corrin's below average.



Low KB and angle. Dark Pit's Ftilt jab locks, so Corrin's looks like a candidate.

Oooo, nice point. DL > let go > ftilt reset > DL > let go > ftilt reset > DL > let go > ftilt reset.... lol? Well, until ftilt stops resetting. I wonder if you will have enough time to punish a missed tech though since letting go of the DL looks like it has some end lag https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=320

 

[OceloT42]

What about the shield breaking power of DFS?
I think the shot+bite will break a full power shield, and the bite alone will do high shield damage. Hopefully.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm late to the party (but I've read this thread religiously since the new footage) so there's my two cents:

Seeing how much knockback dthrow did, my bet is that it's going to be a kill throw (like smash art shulk??). Also

Spoiler: Fates Spoilers kinda

iirc in the game Kamui is about to kill somebody and he's in the same pose when he d-throw. Knowing Sakurai's love for details..

Maybe we get 2 kill throws like Lucas?

I doubt we get a combo throw but we have good tilts to initiate so whatever.

Fair & Uair look amazing. Dair looks safer than we theory crafted, I think is really solid overall, I don't mind the run speed it looks like faster than Mario as I planned, and ironically I think is less powerful than I originally thought.

Invincibility on Up-B? We now.

 

[LordShade67]

About Grab Game: DThrow potentially not being a combo throw is disappointing, but if it's a solid kill throw, then that's good. Either that or UThrow killing reasonably is probably more important than having a combo throw, as @D3xter mentioned earlier.

That said, maybe FThrow will combo? We didn't see it at all in the footage, and while I doubt it'll be one, hey. Oh, and BThrow looks to be a positional throw exclusively. At least it's not complete **** like Roy's.

 

[Nu~]

@LancerStaff
You insist on assuming his grab is bad when we have not seen the full range of it.
A Samus and a Robin could both grab that opponent at that range. You gonna tell me that they have the same grab range?

 

[OceloT42]

Corrin's grab range seems quite alright for a sword wielder.
I have to say though,for a guy who can transform and elongate his limbs...
I mean they could have given him that huge mouth-claw from DFS as a grab...
Also I may be wrong but doesn't his sword sound like Ragnell on hit?

 

[Delzethin]

A new batch of screenshots is out, apparently! One particularly interesting one?

Dragon Lunge sticks to walls.

I repeat, Dragon Lunge sticks to walls.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if you go into freefall if you pick the release option...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

A new batch of screenshots is out, apparently! One particularly interesting one?

Dragon Lunge sticks to walls.

I repeat, Dragon Lunge sticks to walls.

Do you know where to find the screenshots?

 

[Laken64]

Now Corrin is pretty much up with ZSS in the fact that they can basically almost never fall to their deaths aside from gimping (hopefully?). Duck hunt would be a good stage for Corrin in tournaments for mix ups in recovery and possibly allowing him to gimp others with DL to the wall. It would be crazy if you could pin someone with DL on the wall, jump and let them fall into the abyss (The Dragon footstool I would call it but that sounds a bit OP for me lol)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

http://m.imgur.com/a/8ZFlT

Source of the picture.

 

[Deleted member]

Dair looks safer than we theory crafted

Speaking of Dair, I've been thinking about it and if the FAF are low enough Corrin may be able to YOLO not-suicide Dair just off the stage either out of a SH or just from walking off the ledge.

I mention this because it is a thing that likes to do, the FAF on his Dair is frame 46, which is notably earlier than every other stall-then-fall in the game (G&W's FAF is 50, all the others are 55+ all the way up to 80 for Toon Link), obviously the stall-then-fall speed is a factor (for example, G&W is also able to do this, because although his FAF is slightly later, he doesn't descend quite as quickly; technically Greninja can too, but because his FAF is frame 57 he has to do it out of a FH from the stage), but most of the reason why Sonic is able to do this and come back to the stage is because he has great vertical reach off Spring Jump coupled with the low FAF which allows him to Double Jump into U-B afterwards.

I consider this to be a special case if Corrin is able to do it simply because Corrin's Dair is a multi, so unless the final hit trajectory is strictly vertically upwards (which I doubt, hell I swear I saw it meteor in the footage we have but I'll have to watch again), Corrin can literally drag the opponent to the bottom blast zone at any point from the ledge and lower and then make it back to the stage because her double jump and U-B vertical distance seems to be similar in length to Sonic's.

 

[Deleted member]

http://m.imgur.com/a/8ZFlT

Source of the picture.

Shoutout to @LancerStaff

Spoiler

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Shoutout to @LancerStaff

Spoiler

Picture also shows that the bite hitbox is as big as Corrin herself.
Picture also also shows that hair clipping through the dragon mask is weird and means one should pick Male Corrin.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate all the care they put in the screenshots!

Spoiler

When everyone thought about Arceus in the reveal trailer. Nintendo is watching the reaction videos!

Kirby looks so cute!

And all those funny pictures

Thank you Sakurai for everything you did!

 

[meleebrawler]

I see Corrin's weakness being the standard for the Swordfighter archetype, average mobility and lacking anti-projectile measures making him vulnerable to zoners like Villager. Also being outboxed up close, though he has the tools to prevent that from happening easily.

 

[OceloT42]

IT STICKS TO WALLS UUUUAGAUGAUGAUGAUGAGAUGUA
WHY CAN I ONLY LIKE A POST ONCE AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Also I just noticed,in his/her dragon form the hooves are actually folded fingers.
"Such Detail!!!"

 

[Spark31]

IT STICKS TO WALLS UUUUAGAUGAUGAUGAUGAGAUGUA
WHY CAN I ONLY LIKE A POST ONCE AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Also I just noticed,in his/her dragon form the hooves are actually folded fingers.
"Such Detail!!!"

Don't get too excited now, if you look in the picture it looks like dragon lance looks like it's sliding down (skid marks). You might not be able to stick on the wall for long.

 

[OceloT42]

Don't get too excited now, if you look in the picture it looks like dragon lance looks like it's sliding down (skid marks). You might not be able to stick on the wall for long.

How does one work that out?(genuinely curious)
Ofc you'd not be able to stick to walls long, but I don't think it'll slide down the wall...
I think it'll instead cause helplessness after you choose your option(remote possibility)
I'm not excited about wall stick, rather I'm happy that DL gives additional recovery options. It was one of my biggest fears.

 

[Spark31]

How does one work that out?(genuinely curious)
Ofc you'd not be able to stick to walls long, but I don't think it'll slide down the wall...
I think it'll instead cause helplessness after you choose your option(remote possibility)
I'm not excited about wall stick, rather I'm happy that DL gives additional recovery options. It was one of my biggest fears.

I figured it by the skid particle effects on the wall. Look at them, and how they're not symmetrical to either side of the lance. For a character that's supposed to have "such detail" you would think they could make it symmetrical, right? Unless it meant something.

 

[OceloT42]

I figured it by the skid particle effects on the wall. Look at them, and how they're not symmetrical to either side of the lance. For a character that's supposed to have "such detail" you would think they could make it symmetrical, right? Unless it meant something.

But skidding or not, you do agree it sticks to walls?

 

[Spark31]

But skidding or not, you do agree it sticks to walls?

Yes. I just think it will start to slide down the wall, like wall clings.

 

[Brandybuck]

Oh,I do that anyways.
Also I say DL is like jolt haymaker because of that instant Bayo pin.
The taunts were shown in that niconico match.

The two taunts in the video were the same as two of the taunts shown when Corrin was introduced so the third taunt is probably the same too. It's the one female Corrin does here (I think, I don't remember very well which twirly sword thing was done in that match lol)

And yeeeees wall cling! I hoped for it but honestly didn't believe it could happen. Maybe I should be more hopeful about it beating shield too lol

 

[Spark31]

To be honest I don't think the wall cling will put us in free fall. That wouldn't make sense. I just think it will instantly slide down the wall. I can see this being used for a walk jump from a distance, maybe using wall climb DL into jump. Having that option could be OP for ledge guarding because if you do it while your opponent tries to recover you can cover high and low options on reaction without committing to one early.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone posted a damage data sheet on Reddit. Idk about the accuracy of it though.

 

[OceloT42]

Oh for Arceus' sake, those taunts are pathetic!
Oh well, if they had to make him weak somewhere, at least it's taunts.

 

[Spark31]

Someone posted a damage data sheet on Reddit. Idk about the accuracy of it though.

Corrin looks to have good enough damage output that he can play relatively passive aggressively without too many issues. That's perfect for me.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

So ground hitbox like Marth?

Spoiler: Shiek Counter Confirmed

 

[Spark31]

So ground hitbox like Marth?

Spoiler: Shiek Counter Confirmed

Actually, Corrin is probobly gonna have at least a decent sheik MU. Mostly because sheik should be scared to do 50-50s because if they lose they get hit by counter and die. It makes shield a safe option at higher percents.

 

[Top Boss]

Forward air looks like an awesome combo starter/extender. I saw it combo into up air(it looked inescapable) on Bayonetta at 40ish.
If setups like down tilt-forward air-falling up air(on a platform)-forward air-up air is a thing, then this is sick.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone posted a damage data sheet on Reddit. Idk about the accuracy of it though.

Don't worry I didn't post a similar analysis with similar numbers a few days ago to use for preliminary approximations...

(For Corrin).

My numbers are all about 1% higher than the Corrin data from that spreadsheet as they are based from observation of the footage, which is of course affected by the x1.05 freshness multiplier.

Some might say that "Oh, that's affected by freshness bonus so your data is worthless." But considering that every fresh move gets this bonus, and otherwise is subject to staling (save for projectiles), I'd say keeping track of the freshness-boosted damage is still important as it will not be uncommon to get such damage during a match.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Pretty sure DFL air will kill pretty early... and that fair looked liked it could lead to another fair, but the Corrin jumped away can't really tell.

DA could kill off the top

 

[OceloT42]

So ground hitbox like Marth?

Spoiler: Shiek Counter Confirmed

Shiek counter?
Also, how many here are 3ds players? I'm one.Just asking.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Shiek counter?

Was a bad joke with the picture

Edit: I'll find more gifs of Corrin stuff today to help pass the time since Iv'e been crazy focused on Bayo.
2 MORE DAYS!

 

[Deleted member]

Don't worry I didn't post a similar analysis with similar numbers a few days ago to use for preliminary approximations...

Sorry, there was so many posts during the last few days, I didn't keep track of it :/

 

[OceloT42]

Boy, I'm almost salivating with anticipation of shutting down recoveries with angled Fsmash and DL offstage.
Does anyone have the Japanese names of Corrin's specials?

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Corrin looks pretty fine with ground/air movement

Spoiler: DFS shield stun

Spoiler: More stuff

Fair > Uair could be kill confirm... DFS has so much momentum shift

 

[Laken64]

Shiek counter?
Also, how many here are 3ds players? I'm one.Just asking.

Yep I also play on 3ds I'm pretty meh and looking around for another main it's ike for now but I'll definitely switch to Corrin when he comes out

 

[OceloT42]

Corrin looks pretty fine with ground/air movement

Spoiler: DFS shield stun

Spoiler: More stuff

Fair > Uair could be kill confirm... DFS has so much momentum shift

Landing Fair to Uair looks good...
So we have a Reverse Ken combo now?