Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Spark31]

This might be my optimism from literally just watching ESAM's video about this, but do you think Corrin will be able to capitalize on RCO lag very hard? I'd figure he could use jab to confirm into any of his kill setups, but I don't know.

 

[Deleted member]

The tech away like you said could still be covered by dash attack and the bayonetta player got punished because they tried to jump. If we see stuff like Fsmash almost killing from almost center stage why put yourself on the ledge where you can die relatively early or at tipper range. Tech in place WT would have be the best option in my opinion.

Well I'll agree to disagree then.

 

[Merfect]

This might be my optimism from literally just watching ESAM's video about this, but do you think Corrin will be able to capitalize on RCO lag very hard? I'd figure he could use jab to confirm into any of his kill setups, but I don't know.

I feel like we'd be able to capitalize on RCO lag pretty well with Nair and Fair, but maybe only at early percents. Later percents, yeah, maybe only jab. Worth labbing in my book.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Will we be having a separate thread once corrins released for combos and such? or will it all be posted here?

 

[Raziek]

Will we be having a separate thread once corrins released for combos and such? or will it all be posted here?

When Corrin officially launches, this thread will be locked, since it is all pre-release speculation.

I will most likely make a general gameplay discussion thread at that time.

 

[LancerStaff]

His pessimism is hilariously over the top and it basically amounts to concern trolling. If anyone brings up anything remotely positive about Corrin, you can bet your *** he'll dutifully deliver the good truth and explain to us that Corrin really ain't ****™

Which makes me feel all the more better about the character, considering how good is track record is.

You gotta admit there's been a lot of baseless claims and thoughts bouncing around... When people try and fill in the gaps in what they see on a character they'll usually assume the best, for some reason. How many characters haven't met your expectations now? Probably a lot.

Well...I do think Raziek is a smart guy. He knows what to do with Robin than almost everybody else in North America.

I've seen smarter and better players blinded by hype before. I've seen great players complain about stuff as dumb as Din's Fire or prerelease SSB4 Bowser, too. Somebody's status as a player doesn't give them the final word on a character that's not even out yet.

Uair was shown to kill at reasonable percents. Bair was shown killing Meta-knight in the trailer. F-Smash killed Bayo mid-stage at like 90? Dragon Lunge's initial stab kills. DFS Bite has been shown to kill. Counter kills at like 100.

U-Smash, which we haven't seen connect yet, will probably kill.

Even if you go ahead and assume that Corrin has no kill throws (which I think is not necessarily a realistic assumption), that's more than enough. There are great characters who have even less reliable killing tools (Mario and Pikachu come to mind immediately).

Going even beyond that, you have put forth no evidence to suggest that Corrin won't be able to kill. And where are you coming up with this assertion that Corrin will have trouble getting grabs? If Fair is as safe as it looks, Empty Jump -> Fair or Grab can just as easily be as useful as it was to Brawl Marth.

I'm just seeing you being pessimistic for no real reason, is all.

Why is damage output not amazing? All her aerials except Fair were over 10%, IIRC. Tilts did solid damage, DL did like 15...

You're just saying things with no real backing and most importantly, you are assuming the worst in situations where exactly the opposite could be true.

(You assume that she has no throw combos. Assume she can't get grabs, assume she will have to rely on edge-guarding & tech-chasing, etc. There's no evidence to say it couldn't be exactly the opposite.)

How were any of those reliable?

There's a reason people doubt Mario and Pikachu's viability... Although Mario has his Usmash which is mostly safe on shield last I heard.

Everything we've seen on Corrin throws points to not having any combos. Out of all things I thought it was a safe assumption.

We've seen Corrin's dash grab and it wasn't amazing. Standing wasn't either. Fall speed is lower (and you definitely don't want it high without any easy GTFO options) and since all his aerials should be spaced his tomahawk looks unreliable. Dash attack looks like trash and will clank on anything so that's out as a mixup. Doesn't exactly scream good grab game does it...

Damage is similar to Pit's and people still tell me he can't keep up, and that's after getting at least 16% per grab.

The most baseless thing being said is is that Corrin will be even average at killing, honestly.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

When Corrin officially launches, this thread will be locked, since it is all pre-release speculation.

I will most likely make a general gameplay discussion thread at that time.

sounds good! Will that thread also have things like when moves kill? like up/down throw?

 

[False Sense]

You gotta admit there's been a lot of baseless claims and thoughts bouncing around... When people try and fill in the gaps in what they see on a character they'll usually assume the best, for some reason. How many characters haven't met your expectations now? Probably a lot.

Extreme pessimism is no better than baseless optimism. Neither attitude offers any contributions to this thread and its intended purpose.

 

[Zult]

You guys are hilarious c: Welp, Wednesday isn't that far away. Most people who have been in this thread long enough (around a month) are already used to Lancer, so we can wait 2-3 more days to see who is right and who is wrong.

As for killing, it was already agreed upon most that Corrin might have some trouble with killing. But now I think that's kinda wrong given the new footage we've gotten. But I do still think she will have trouble against shield if not given a kill throw at high percents. And we have yet to see if there are any kill set ups. Right now we have potential kill set ups like down tilt into up air, but I think that's it. We still don't know if DL beats shield.

So, now that most people don't think Corrin won't have a difficult time killing, what do you guys think Corrin's weakness(es) is/are? Cloud has a terrible recovery. Ryu has trouble against characters that can camp him really well or have multi hits like Sonic. I'm wondering what Corrin's are? Could it be similar to Marth's? Marth has many bad match ups, but does he have any REALLY BAD match ups?

 

[Spark31]

Honestly, I'd be fine if Corrin had trouble killing. I main Sheik, having trouble killing is my thing. Other than that, I don't think we can legitimately say Corrin's weaknesses before they're out yet.

 

[Raziek]

How were any of those reliable?

There's a reason people doubt Mario and Pikachu's viability... Although Mario has his Usmash which is mostly safe on shield last I heard.

Everything we've seen on Corrin throws points to not having any combos. Out of all things I thought it was a safe assumption.

We've seen Corrin's dash grab and it wasn't amazing. Standing wasn't either. Fall speed is lower (and you definitely don't want it high without any easy GTFO options) and since all his aerials should be spaced his tomahawk looks unreliable. Dash attack looks like trash and will clank on anything so that's out as a mixup. Doesn't exactly scream good grab game does it...

Damage is similar to Pit's and people still tell me he can't keep up, and that's after getting at least 16% per grab.

The most baseless thing being said is is that Corrin will be even average at killing, honestly.

Alright, so you just don't know what you're talking about. Good to know.

Nobody doubts their viability. What they doubt is 'top 5' status. You can be viable and have problems like that. Not every character is Sheik.

You don't understand how or why that tomahawk strategy works, or why it worked for Marth in Brawl. The theory is identical.

You're throwing out dash attack for what reason? Because it will clank? At what point did anyone suggest using dash attack as an approach? It's very clearly unsafe on block and is best served as a punish/tech-chase tool, especially since it's a combo starter.

Dash grab 'wasn't amazing'? Standing grab 'wasn't amazing'? Why? This is not an answer. You've provided no explanation or supporting evidence.

You're just looking for problems for the sake of doing so.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

You guys are hilarious c: Welp, Wednesday isn't that far away. Most people who have been in this thread long enough (around a month) are already used to Lancer, so we can wait 2-3 more days to see who is right and who is wrong.

As for killing, it was already agreed upon most that Corrin might have some trouble with killing. But now I think that's kinda wrong given the new footage we've gotten. But I do still think she will have trouble against shield if not given a kill throw at high percents. And we have yet to see if there are any kill set ups. Right now we have potential kill set ups like down tilt into up air, but I think that's it. We still don't know if DL beats shield.

So, now that most people don't think Corrin won't have a difficult time killing, what do you guys think Corrin's weakness(es) is/are? Cloud has a terrible recovery. Ryu has trouble against characters that can camp him really well or have multi hits like Sonic. I'm wondering what Corrin's are? Could it be similar to Marth's? Marth has many bad match ups, but does he have any REALLY BAD match ups?

i have a feeling that it will possibly be that she will have a predictable recovery which will be bad since she will get spiked. And even if your opponent misses, her up b is a multi hit move with a fairly big hitbox so corrin will end uo saving them from SDing other than that maybe just campy char? We'll see.

 

[D3xter]

You gotta admit there's been a lot of baseless claims and thoughts bouncing around... When people try and fill in the gaps in what they see on a character they'll usually assume the best, for some reason. How many characters haven't met your expectations now? Probably a lot.



I've seen smarter and better players blinded by hype before. I've seen great players complain about stuff as dumb as Din's Fire or prerelease SSB4 Bowser, too. Somebody's status as a player doesn't give them the final word on a character that's not even out yet.



How were any of those reliable?

There's a reason people doubt Mario and Pikachu's viability... Although Mario has his Usmash which is mostly safe on shield last I heard.

Everything we've seen on Corrin throws points to not having any combos. Out of all things I thought it was a safe assumption.

We've seen Corrin's dash grab and it wasn't amazing. Standing wasn't either. Fall speed is lower (and you definitely don't want it high without any easy GTFO options) and since all his aerials should be spaced his tomahawk looks unreliable. Dash attack looks like trash and will clank on anything so that's out as a mixup. Doesn't exactly scream good grab game does it...

Damage is similar to Pit's and people still tell me he can't keep up, and that's after getting at least 16% per grab.

The most baseless thing being said is is that Corrin will be even average at killing, honestly.

If I can get tomahawks regularly against people with Ness, I guarantee you you'll be able to get tomahawks against people as Corrin. If you're within a safe spacing range people tend to get scared and keep shield up longer than they should or start fishing for powershields, tomahawks are really just mind games. Also, honestly, throw combos are overrated. They're nice to have and they're free percent, but way too many people treat them as a necessity. I'd say between a combo throw and a kill throw, a kill throw is something you'd rather want. Lots of characters in this game have combo throws, but combo throws don't matter when you can't close out a stock at 160% because they're past your combo ranges *coughfoxcough*

Also Pit does fine, have you seen Earth's gameplay? The problem with Pit is that he's probably the most honest, fundamental based character in the game. Lots of people seem to not want to actually outplay people in this game, so he's not exactly a popular choice.

 

[Deleted member]

i have a feeling that it will possibly be that she will have a predictable recovery which will be bad since she will get spiked. And even if your opponent misses her up b is a multi hit move with a fairly big hitbox so corrin will end uo saving them from SDing other than that maybe just campy char? We'll see.

I don't think Corrin's recovery will be that easy to challenge, tbh.

It is comparable to Fire Fox in a way, because linear recovery and whatnot, but, it also seems to have notably lower startup, invincibility frames on startup, and (obviously) a much wider hitbox surrounding Corrin which may or may not be disjointed.

Generally speaking it's also situational for a character's U-B to "save" another character who has gone offstage for an edgeguard, although it varies character to character. That said, it certainly is a valid thought that Corrin will end up hitting an opponent attempting to edgeguard her simply because Dragon Ascent's hitbox seems freakin' huge.

On top of that, most of the time characters that go offstage for edgeguards can reasonably make it back themselves, so it's not very common that you'll see them SD unless they do something blatantly stupid, for future reference.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

I don't think Corrin's recovery will be that easy to challenge, tbh.

It is comparable to Fire Fox in a way, because linear recovery and whatnot, but, it also seems to have notably lower startup, invincibility frames on startup, and (obviously) a much wider hitbox surrounding Corrin which may or may not be disjointed.

Generally speaking it's also situational for a character's U-B to "save" another character who has gone offstage for an edgeguard, although it varies character to character. That said, it certainly is a valid thought that Corrin will end up hitting an opponent attempting to edgeguard her simply because Dragon Ascent's hitbox seems freakin' huge.

On top of that, most of the time characters that go offstage for edgeguards can reasonably make it back themselves, so it's not very common that you'll see them SD unless they do something blatantly stupid, for future reference.

invincibility frames, when was that discovered? And yah ur right but if i got a zelda buff for how many times I've SDed due to fast fall dair since she can't react fast enough id have a sheik counter.

 

[Zult]

If I can get tomahawks regularly against people with Ness, I guarantee you you'll be able to get tomahawks against people as Corrin. If you're within a safe spacing range people tend to get scared and keep shield up longer than they should or start fishing for powershields, tomahawks are really just mind games. Also, honestly, throw combos are overrated. They're nice to have and they're free percent, but way too many people treat them as a necessity. I'd say between a combo throw and a kill throw, a kill throw is something you'd rather want. Lots of characters in this game have combo throws, but combo throws don't matter when you can't close out a stock at 160% because they're past your combo ranges *coughfoxcough*

Also Pit does fine, have you seen Earth's gameplay? The problem with Pit is that he's probably the most honest, fundamental based character in the game. Lots of people seem to not want to actually outplay people in this game, so he's not exactly a popular choice.

I would say that Pit is the best honest and fundamentally character. There's still characters like Lucina, Palutena, and Falco. But you're right about the tomahawking thing. I was recently playing Ness for fun in friendlies and I conditioned my opponent to hold shield by constantly doing fall uairs. When he was at 120% afraid of getting hit by one and holding shield, I literally took all the time in the world to fall down, grab him, and kill him. Same thing will apply to Corrin with his auto cancel fairs and falling uairs that will kill at probably around ~130% from the ground with no rage.

 

[Deleted member]

invincibility frames, when was that discovered? And yah ur right but if i got a zelda buff for how many times I've SDed due to fast fall dair since she can't react fast enough id have a sheik counter.

Keyword "seems", but I made some (lol trash quality) GIFs earlier today:

Both GIFs are running at 25% speed, if you watch closely you'll notice a white full-body flash on Dragon Ascent's startup, which is a pretty standard indicator of invincibility frames.

But again, "seems."

 

[Brandybuck]

I don't think Corrin's recovery will be that easy to challenge, tbh.

It is comparable to Fire Fox in a way, because linear recovery and whatnot, but, it also seems to have notably lower startup, invincibility frames on startup, and (obviously) a much wider hitbox surrounding Corrin which may or may not be disjointed.

Generally speaking it's also situational for a character's U-B to "save" another character who has gone offstage for an edgeguard, although it varies character to character. That said, it certainly is a valid thought that Corrin will end up hitting an opponent attempting to edgeguard her simply because Dragon Ascent's hitbox seems freakin' huge.

On top of that, most of the time characters that go offstage for edgeguards can reasonably make it back themselves, so it's not very common that you'll see them SD unless they do something blatantly stupid, for future reference.

If I remember right, Dragon Ascent has more horizontal knockback than most of Corrin's moves. Would it be possible to get a stage spike of a misplaced edgeguard attempt

 

[Spark31]

If I remember right, Dragon Ascent has more horizontal knockback than most of Corrin's moves. Would it be possible to get a stage spike of a misplaced edgeguard attempt

It probably depends on the KBG. If the KBG isn't high enough, than it probably won't.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Keyword "seems", but I made some (lol trash quality) GIFs earlier today:

Both GIFs are running at 25% speed, if you watch closely you'll notice a white full-body flash on Dragon Ascent's startup, which is a pretty standard indicator of invincibility frames.

But again, "seems"

NICE! and i notice that he flashes more in the first gif, this can mean more invincibility in the air? either that or its bayos final smash making it seem like it :/

 

[Deleted member]

If I remember right, Dragon Ascent has more horizontal knockback than most of Corrin's moves. Would it be possible to get a stage spike of a misplaced edgeguard attempt

The possibility certainly exists, and what with Corrin's wing hitboxes being notably extended away from her body (to the point that they actually hit through/above the ledge as she ledge-snaps), she can probably just run an opponent straight into the stage on her way to ledge-snap.

Definitely techable though.

 

[OceloT42]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but I think DL is going to function like Jolt Haymaker, with you tapping B to shoot out the spear early.
Also what is a tomahawk?
LancerStaff , while I do appreciate a little balance to the thread, please don't become Eeyore or something. You give valuable input, but do be a little hopeful.
I really hope the third taunt is something legendary because the two I've seen so far are lame.
In honor of the pint sized boxer, all DL kills offstage will be called 'Mac Whacks'.

 

[theyellowflash26]

I don't think you'll need to shoot the spear out early. The move seems to come out really quick anyway.

 

[Spark31]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but I think DL is going to function like Jolt Haymaker, with you tapping B to shoot out the spear early.
Also what is a tomahawk?
LancerStaff , while I do appreciate a little balance to the thread, please don't become Eeyore or something. You give valuable input, but do be a little hopeful.
I really hope the third taunt is something legendary because the two I've seen so far are lame.
In honor of the pint sized boxer, all DL kills offstage will be called 'Mac Whacks'.

A tomahawk is an empty jump, usually into a grab. Essentially the strategy is to bait out shield after conditioning an aerial and going for a grab.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but I think DL is going to function like Jolt Haymaker, with you tapping B to shoot out the spear early.
Also what is a tomahawk?
LancerStaff , while I do appreciate a little balance to the thread, please don't become Eeyore or something. You give valuable input, but do be a little hopeful.
I really hope the third taunt is something legendary because the two I've seen so far are lame.
In honor of the pint sized boxer, all DL kills offstage will be called 'Mac Whacks'.

we have the taunts already? id love to see them.

 

[Zult]

What are the requirements for a move to be able to jab lock? https://youtu.be/9s5XPL9Z01w?t=153 Here if you slow it down at 2:33 you can see Corrin's first jab only does 1% which sounds reasonable considering it comes out at frame 3 I think

 

[OceloT42]

A tomahawk is an empty jump, usually into a grab. Essentially the strategy is to bait out shield after conditioning an aerial and going for a grab.

Oh,I do that anyways.
Also I say DL is like jolt haymaker because of that instant Bayo pin.
The taunts were shown in that niconico match.

 

[theyellowflash26]

Oh,I do that anyways.
Also I say DL is like jolt haymaker because of that instant Bayo pin.

Oh I know what you're talking about. But I'm pretty sure the Corrin player just jumped there and did aerial DL.

 

[Spark31]

What are the requirements for a move to be able to jab lock? https://youtu.be/9s5XPL9Z01w?t=153 Here if you slow it down at 2:33 you can see Corrin's first jab only does 1% which sounds reasonable considering it comes out at frame 3 I think

I'm pretty sure jab locks are knock-back related, not damage related. Otherwise finishing touch could jab lock.

 

[Deleted member]

NICE! and i notice that he flashes more in the first gif, this can mean more invincibility in the air? either that or its bayos final smash making it seem like it :/

Bayonetta's Final Smash being the source of the extended flashing frames in the first GIF was certainly something I considered, but I feel like that sentiment is contradicted by the fact that we see Marth's flashing (which is certainly a result of the Final Smash initiation) end some frames earlier, and I don't feel like the "affected flashing" from Bayonetta's Final Smash will affect characters that are further away at a later time, hell, I don't think it will directly affect characters that aren't in her proximity.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but I think DL is going to function like Jolt Haymaker, with you tapping B to shoot out the spear early.
Also what is a tomahawk?
LancerStaff , while I do appreciate a little balance to the thread, please don't become Eeyore or something. You give valuable input, but do be a little hopeful.
I really hope the third taunt is something legendary because the two I've seen so far are lame.
In honor of the pint sized boxer, all DL kills offstage will be called 'Mac Whacks'.

A Tomahawk is simply an empty hop, you do a Short Hop or Full Hop, and then just land back down on the stage.

It's a fairly useful mindgame tactic because the natural reaction to someone jumping towards you is to hold shield expecting an aerial, so if you have a good SH/fallspeed you can usually get a Tomahawk -> Grab.

That said I don't Tomahawk very much (and I should more), but most of that is because Link's grab-game and baiting for grabs functions better off Bombslides IMO and also because his tether grab is stupid punishable on whiff. (Although I do co-main/probably-actually-secondary Mario, and he could definitely get some mileage out of it).

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Bayonetta's Final Smash being the source of the extended flashing frames in the first GIF was certainly something I considered, but I feel like that sentiment is contradicted by the fact that we see Marth's flashing (which is certainly a result of the Final Smash initiation) end some frames earlier, and I don't feel like the "affected flashing" from Bayonetta's Final Smash will affect characters that are further away at a later time, hell, I don't think it will directly affect characters that aren't in her proximity.


A Tomahawk is simply an empty hop, you do a Short Hop or Full Hop, and then just land back down on the stage.

It's a fairly useful mindgame tactic because the natural reaction to someone jumping towards you is to hold shield expecting an aerial, so if you have a good SH/fallspeed you can usually get a Tomahawk -> Grab.

That said I don't Tomahawk very much (and I should more), but most of that is because Link's grab-game and baiting for grabs functions better off Bombslides IMO and also because his tether grab is stupid punishable on whiff. (Although I do co-main/probably-actually-secondary Mario, and he could definitely get some mileage out of it).

If what you said is true could we be looking at another way to get out of combos (because of invincibility not startup) and imagine if it can kill? Which it most likely does.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Keyword "seems", but I made some (lol trash quality) GIFs earlier today:

Both GIFs are running at 25% speed, if you watch closely you'll notice a white full-body flash on Dragon Ascent's startup, which is a pretty standard indicator of invincibility frames.

But again, "seems."

That's rather generous if true, considering the inv frames are covering the 'sitting duck' part of the move before the hitbox comes out, which would mitigate much of the move's apparent weakness. Good stuff!

 

[LancerStaff]

Extreme pessimism is no better than baseless optimism. Neither attitude offers any contributions to this thread and its intended purpose.

There's a difference between taking things at face value and raw pessimism.

They haven't shown us anything that looks like an easy way to kill. This would be a massive problem if he doesn't have any, correct?

So, now that most people don't think Corrin won't have a difficult time killing, what do you guys think Corrin's weakness(es) is/are? Cloud has a terrible recovery. Ryu has trouble against characters that can camp him really well or have multi hits like Sonic. I'm wondering what Corrin's are? Could it be similar to Marth's? Marth has many bad match ups, but does he have any REALLY BAD match ups?

This bait? NVM, answering anyway.

Asides from killing, Corrin actually doesn't look like he has a really good way to deal with people offstage. Ignore the raw power for a moment... F2 airdodges ruin everything, remember? All of your options while on the stage cover mostly the same area, and offstage your options are either weak, telegraphed, or just stupid to even try. A lot of edgeguarding comes down to ledge snap vulnerability, and Corrin can't readily abuse this. Either Corrin has to space himself and give the opponent a free high ledge snap (no vulnerability whatsoever by the way) or sit on the ledge and do next to nothing about people recovering low. TBH a Dtilt would only help them...

Alright, so you just don't know what you're talking about. Good to know.

Nobody doubts their viability. What they doubt is 'top 5' status. You can be viable and have problems like that. Not every character is Sheik.

You don't understand how or why that tomahawk strategy works, or why it worked for Marth in Brawl. The theory is identical.

You're throwing out dash attack for what reason? Because it will clank? At what point did anyone suggest using dash attack as an approach? It's very clearly unsafe on block and is best served as a punish/tech-chase tool, especially since it's a combo starter.

Dash grab 'wasn't amazing'? Standing grab 'wasn't amazing'? Why? This is not an answer. You've provided no explanation or supporting evidence.

You're just looking for problems for the sake of doing so.

Explain. Marth and Roy have a ton of ways to close out stocks, but none are reliable. You telling me that you can rely on an Fsmash?

Japan doesn't think terribly highly of Pikachu, and that's one of twenty characters with significant killing problems. Odds most certainly aren't good.

Marth's got above average airspeed and way above average acceleration in SSB4, on top of objectively longer standing grab reach and low starup (for a swordsman at least) on his aerials. Assuming Marth was like this in Brawl, it doesn't take a genius to see why it'd be more effective on him. Unless Corrin's literally Brawl Marth (lolno) it's not going to be anywhere as good.

Not all dash attacks are highly punishable. Just one less option... And multihits are quite easy to DI, wouldn't expect any true follow-ups.

The trailers, dude. Somebody posted a pic of the standing grab a few pages back too, definitely ain't no Marth grab.

You're doing a terrible job of explaining why what you've said is any less baseless...

If I can get tomahawks regularly against people with Ness, I guarantee you you'll be able to get tomahawks against people as Corrin. If you're within a safe spacing range people tend to get scared and keep shield up longer than they should or start fishing for powershields, tomahawks are really just mind games. Also, honestly, throw combos are overrated. They're nice to have and they're free percent, but way too many people treat them as a necessity. I'd say between a combo throw and a kill throw, a kill throw is something you'd rather want. Lots of characters in this game have combo throws, but combo throws don't matter when you can't close out a stock at 160% because they're past your combo ranges *coughfoxcough*

Also Pit does fine, have you seen Earth's gameplay? The problem with Pit is that he's probably the most honest, fundamental based character in the game. Lots of people seem to not want to actually outplay people in this game, so he's not exactly a popular choice.

I don't see good tomahawking qualities in Corrin... Using a kill throw requires getting a grab in the first place.

If Pit's honest then Corrin's below average.

What are the requirements for a move to be able to jab lock? https://youtu.be/9s5XPL9Z01w?t=153 Here if you slow it down at 2:33 you can see Corrin's first jab only does 1% which sounds reasonable considering it comes out at frame 3 I think

Low KB and angle. Dark Pit's Ftilt jab locks, so Corrin's looks like a candidate.

 

[LevinViolin]

So I'm actually racking my brains trying to think of some area Corrin is lacking in based on the footage we have, and I can't think of anything definitive.

My first thoughts were that Corrin may be susceptible to being rushed down like a lot of "ranged" characters are, but there are a couple of things that keep me from believing this. Corrin's jab looks pretty fast. Even if their jab is below average, they still have the charging hitbox on fsmash. Which, presumably, comes out frame 1. I think Corrin has the tools to keep people out of their face on the ground.
So what about getting juggled? Nair looked too slow to be a combo breaker, dair probably won't work as one either. But then there's fair which looks fast, and Dragon Lunge, which looks even faster.

Corrin definitely has his front covered when it comes to quick moves. I don't think getting rushed down will be too much of an issue.

Well if Corrin's grab is bad, maybe shielding all his moves will work? I'm not convinced about this either, what with Fsmash having a ridiculous range while being as quick as it is. I'm willing to bet it's safe on a non perfect shield when tipped. Not to mention how ridiculous fair looks. Shielding against a skilled Corrin probably won't put you in an advantageous position often.

My best guess is that he might be on the lighter end of characters. I'm thinking somewhere around Zelda, which actually isn't too bad. So that's my guess for Corrin's weakness: they die earlier than most, and may get juggled easily. There has to be something I'm not thinking of.

Corrin just seems really good all around, let the Mario comparisons continue. Honestly the thought of fighting a character that's balanced overall like Mario, but has range and disjoints sounds really terrifying. I can't wait for Wednesday.

 

[alguidrag]

Wait a second, Lancer says that corrin maybe do a jab lock... SO HE FINALY SAID ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT CORRIN YAY

Just joking XD i gonna wait to corrin to test all his kill move so be happy bro

 

[ARGHETH]

Corrin just seems really good all around, let the Mario comparisons continue. Honestly the thought of fighting a character that's balanced overall like Mario, but has range and disjoints sounds really terrifying. I can't wait for Wednesday.

But that's Pit...Also, in this game Mario isn't really the "balanced" character.

 

[Deleted member]

If what you said is true could we be looking at another way to get out of combos (because of invincibility not startup) and imagine if it can kill? Which it most likely does.

(Combo breaking):

I honestly think that's unlikely.

That's because, as you can tell by viewing the GIFs, there is some delay before the invincibility frames since they seem to come out only just prior to Corrin's flight via Dragon Ascent, so she could still be vulnerable during the first few frames of startup (although that has yet to be seen in full).

Of course, just because an option isn't frame 1 doesn't mean it can't be used to break combos, in this game anything at around Frame 5 (e.g. Ness's Nair) or lower is a pretty consistent combo breaker, with an absolute maximum for reasonable combo breaking IMO at the frame 7 aerials (e.g. Link's Nair). So if the invincibility frames kick in within the first 5 frames it could be possible.

This is the part of my post where I make the obligatory mention of the absurdity that is Smash 64 Pikachu's U-B, which is out on frame 2 and has 20, count' em, 20 frames of invincibility at the very beginning of the move, so if your combo is even slightly untrue (even with that game's very high hitstun) in that game Pika will likely escape.

--------------------


(U-B as a kill option)

As for killing, that will have to wait until release day, it certainly seems that it has some decent knockback, but I don't really get the clams that it's knockback is purely horizontal, simply because the clip in Corrin's trailer of it being used on Kirby sends him upwards, although, Corrin's wings are spread out from him vertically in that clap so if the trajectory of the final hitbox is horizontal relative to the orientation of the wing's long edge (i.e. horizontal if Corrin is going straight up, vertical if Corrin is going sideways), then that would explain the discrepancy...

 

[LevinViolin]

But that's Pit...Also, in this game Mario isn't really the "balanced" character.

Well I believe my point still stands. Corrin seems to do everything reasonably well without having many clear-cut weaknesses. If Corrin ends up like Pit then that's still a win in my book.

Also, just out of curiosity, how would you describe Mario, and why isn't he the most balanced character in the game? He seems to trade range on some of his moves for speed and safety, but other than that he seems fairly balanced to me. Who is the jack of all trades character, if not Mario? Shiek can do everything well, but I'd argue she's too combo heavy. Diddy Kong? Pit? I'm curious.

 

[LancerStaff]

But that's Pit...

Hey, somebody over here's actually agreeing with me on this. See guys, I'm not crazy.

Well I believe my point still stands. Corrin seems to do everything reasonably well without having many clear-cut weaknesses. If Corrin ends up like Pit then that's still a win in my book.

That'd be like the least Sakurai thing ever. I mean, after the Chrom debacle I don't see them adding Pit with more range and less grabs.

 

[ARGHETH]

Also, just out of curiosity, how would you describe Mario, and why isn't he the most balanced character in the game? He seems to trade range on some of his moves for speed and safety, but other than that he seems fairly balanced to me. Who is the jack of all trades character, if not Mario? Shiek can do everything well, but I'd argue she's too combo heavy. Diddy Kong? Pit? I'm curious.

IMO, Mario concentrates a bit too much on damage-racking combos and fishing for kills to be the most balanced/jack-of-all-trades character. (Dark) Pit, meanwhile, has decent combos, disjoints, a good recovery, and generally does well but not stellar in a lot of fields. Also, I've heard Pit mains say that most of his matchups are between -1 to +1.
Sheik, by design, has trouble killing (of course, there's the downthrow 50/50 and stuff but I think it's an intended weakness) and is one of the best characters in the game for getting damage on the opponent.

but I don't really get the clams that it's knockback is purely horizontal, simply because the clip in Corrin's trailer of it being used on Kirby sends him upwards,

I remember there being a clip of him using it on Pit and Dark Pit in the air straight up (it caught them at the middle/end of the move, though, so take that as you will) and it sent them both sideways.