Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

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We still don't know what the blastzones are like on UCT. Typically on larger stages like Wuhu Island and 8-player Omegas the edge of the stage is right next to the blastzone.
Well see the issue with that is that no one currently plays on Wuhu Island or 8-player Omegas.

And if you want to consider the current largest overall (commonly legal) stage in regards to Blast Zones, which is Battlefield, the blastzones really aren't that close.

Ergo, such a generalization doesn't seem to hold very well.
 
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Mr. Johan

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As someone who has complained so much about Zamus's Nair, I feel obligated to be equally as mopey about Corrin's equally large, equally lagless Nair.
 

Wolfheart77

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Bit of banter in our Smash group devolved into having to explain exactly why Corrin isn't just another "counter character." Zheesh.
I'm starting to get the hang of Cloud's nair as well, and I'm psyched to be able to play Corrin's and try his out. I'm just now starting to use nair at all (I usually use the c-stick and don't think about nairing at specific moments; I'm changing that habit because ugh, Cloud fair so slow...) and since this nair looks downright awesome, I'm really excited to see for myself how it feels.
 

sunfallSeraph

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I do feel that even with such (tbh surprisingly) low endlag on the kicks that it will probably lose to shield simply because I'm doubtful that it will cross-up properly save for close-range kicks.

I'm interested to see the practical applications of the cancel option. Even if it is (presumably) techable I feel it could still lead to follow-ups aside from tech chases because DL allows the player to mix up the timing of their DL cancel. This is unlike say, Ganon's Flame Choke which of course has a set timing after the grab (which I couldn't tech if my life depended on it, lmao).

From a missed tech you got the basic Dtilt -> Uair(which for the purposes of this post I am assuming is a possible true option) or (maybe? Depends on frames and stuff) Dtilt -> Fair -> Uair, possibly Dtilt -> Utilt, possibly uncharged DFS -> Bite (which probably won't do too much without charge but the option possibly exists), Jab, which may or may not cause resets (I'm doubtful, personally),and Ftilt (same reset comment as for Jab). It will also be interesting to see if F-Smash's charge hitbox can hit opponents in knockdown (character hurtbox-size-dependent of course) so then maybe charge hitbox -> Non-tipper F-Smash could be a thing, and D-Smash could also be a practical thing if we assume that D-Smash's frontside damage doesn't have trash base damage nor is affected by tipper properties (since the hit is done with Omega Yato as opposed to Dragon Fang).
No, I agree about the kicks, I wouldn't want to throw it out against a distant opponent unless they were just hitting buttons for some reason. I was thinking more of pinning a shield and crossing up to safety, yeah, although we're still not 100% on how Dragon Lunge interacts with shields (I do believe it won't beat them, but the move would be that much more amazing if it did).

If nothing else comes of the cancel, I really hope we'll get kill confirms or at least 50/50s out of it. It would be extremely satisfying to land a DFS bite off of it or at least a Dsmash.
 

Mr. KoopaTurtle

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Only thing I dislike about Corrin currently is D-Throw. That disgusting move sends the opponent too far away to follow-up. Maybe the other throws will do Corrin justice.
 
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Gemzelda_ss

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i know that we have all of corrins moveset but i can't figure out what he's doing @0:10 here i thought it was a dash attack but he's on the ground? Edit: not his ftilt but when he's going towards pit he has his sword in front of him.
 
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ZephyrYoshi

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i know that we have all of corrins moveset but i can't figure out what he's doing @0:10 here i thought it was a dash attack but he's on the ground? Edit: not his ftilt but when he's going towards pit he has his sword in front of him.
that's his rapid jab.
 

LancerStaff

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Well see the issue with that is that no one currently plays on Wuhu Island or 8-player Omegas.

And if you want to consider the current largest overall (commonly legal) stage in regards to Blast Zones, which is Battlefield, the blastzones really aren't that close.

Ergo, such a generalization doesn't seem to hold very well.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Umbra Clock Tower may have really close blastzones making DL look like it kills sooner.
 

Pedker

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Umbra Clock Tower may have really close blastzones making DL look like it kills sooner.
Check this out:

So Pit kills Corrin at 111% with F-Smash (Pit F-smash does 15%). Pit just spawned, which means that his F-smash is 100% fresh, and he has no rage. This means that training mode can simulate this situation very easily. In training mode, FD, I'm able to kill someone like RYU with optimal DI in this situation at around 116%, which is only 5% more than the percent Corrin, the character that you think is light, dies at. UCT might have even longer blast sides than FD, if not similar...

Another thing that I find pretty cool:

It appears that when used while having backwards momentum, B-air can reverse all momentum, kind of like a B-reverse. This might be able to be combined with something like B-reverse DL in order to mix up options when landing/avoiding juggles.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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Sigh. A lot of info, but still no clue if any kill throws or if DL beats shield.

Have yet to see the bite.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, but I need to know more ;-;
I found the bite; it does not hit, neither can I tell if it was fully charged but I'm loving the color and electricity, makes it look more deadly.

https://youtu.be/oPLNKCfoPUw?t=34
 

Latias

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Check this out:

So Pit kills Corrin at 111% with F-Smash (Pit F-smash does 15%). Pit just spawned, which means that his F-smash is 100% fresh, and he has no rage. This means that training mode can simulate this situation very easily. In training mode, FD, I'm able to kill someone like RYU with optimal DI in this situation at around 116%, which is only 5% more than the percent Corrin, the character that you think is light, dies at. UCT might have even longer blast sides than FD, if not similar...

Another thing that I find pretty cool:

It appears that when used while having backwards momentum, B-air can reverse all momentum, kind of like a B-reverse. This might be able to be combined with something like B-reverse DL in order to mix up options when landing/avoiding juggles.
Wrecked.
 

LancerStaff

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Check this out:

So Pit kills Corrin at 111% with F-Smash (Pit F-smash does 15%). Pit just spawned, which means that his F-smash is 100% fresh, and he has no rage. This means that training mode can simulate this situation very easily. In training mode, FD, I'm able to kill someone like RYU with optimal DI in this situation at around 116%, which is only 5% more than the percent Corrin, the character that you think is light, dies at. UCT might have even longer blast sides than FD, if not similar...

Another thing that I find pretty cool:

It appears that when used while having backwards momentum, B-air can reverse all momentum, kind of like a B-reverse. This might be able to be combined with something like B-reverse DL in order to mix up options when landing/avoiding juggles.
Interesting analysis but I didn't say he looked light... I said UCT might be making Dragon Lunge look more powerful then it is, namely the part where he got Marth with it. Killing from mid stage wouldn't be massively different, but edgeguarding would.
 

Pedker

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Interesting analysis but I didn't say he looked light... I said UCT might be making Dragon Lunge look more powerful then it is, namely the part where he got Marth with it. Killing from mid stage wouldn't be massively different, but edgeguarding would.
I remember you saying somewhere earlier that he didn't look like he was a fast faller. Must have been just an assumption on my part.
Also, that's true: another reason may be that the stage itself might be large in terms of length. This would allow Corrin to get closer to the blast zone when going off stage. I can't think of any real way to test the length of UCT though.
 

ZephyrYoshi

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I remember you saying somewhere earlier that he didn't look like he was a fast faller. Must have been just an assumption on my part.
Also, that's true: another reason may be that the stage itself might be large in terms of length. This would allow Corrin to get closer to the blast zone when going off stage. I can't think of any real way to test the length of UCT though.
that was on the omega form of UCT, though. All of the omega forms are about the same length as FD.
 

DarkDeity15

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Check this out:

So Pit kills Corrin at 111% with F-Smash (Pit F-smash does 15%). Pit just spawned, which means that his F-smash is 100% fresh, and he has no rage. This means that training mode can simulate this situation very easily. In training mode, FD, I'm able to kill someone like RYU with optimal DI in this situation at around 116%, which is only 5% more than the percent Corrin, the character that you think is light, dies at. UCT might have even longer blast sides than FD, if not similar...

Another thing that I find pretty cool:

It appears that when used while having backwards momentum, B-air can reverse all momentum, kind of like a B-reverse. This might be able to be combined with something like B-reverse DL in order to mix up options when landing/avoiding juggles.
Or they buffed Pit's Fsmash. I find it funny that not only do you not take into consideration that this stage isn't out yet, making it impossible to know anything about the blast zones, but you're comparing Pit to Ryu. Just...stop.
 
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Pedker

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you're comparing Pit to Ryu. Just...stop.
I wasn't comparing Pit to Ryu. I was comparing how Corrin flew when hit by Pit's F-smash to how Ryu flew in the same scenario.

I find it funny that you don't take into consideration that not only is this stage not out yet, making it impossible to know anything about the blast zones...
The entire purpose of that post was to try to find a way to learn something about that stage's blast zones. It's not impossible to know ANYTHING about a stage that we have footage of.
 

DarkDeity15

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I wasn't comparing Pit to Ryu. I was comparing how Corrin flew when hit by Pit's F-smash to how Ryu flew in the same scenario.


The entire purpose of that post was to try to find a way to learn something about that stage's blast zones. It's not impossible to know ANYTHING about a stage that we have footage of.
We know the stage has smaller blast zones and it has non-teachable platforms. Like, that's it. Trying to find out anything else about it is pointless. It's gunna be out in a few days anyways. It's better to just keep learning things about Corrin at this point like, I dunno. His frame data?
 
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Considering that the entire debacle about DL killing early because of "UCT's smaller blastzones" was basically negated since that clip was on Omega UCT, we in effect really haven't made an effort to learn about the stage's blastzones since the comparisons were between FD and...an Omega stage, between which the blastzone differences are trivial if not nonexistent.

So yeah...

I don't really get the whole "Stop trying to learn anything about it" mentality anyways, I mean the title of this thread is "Moveset Speculation and Discussion thread."

And although it's slightly indirect since UCT isn't a part of Corrin's moveset (duh), speculation about how Corrin's moves will perform on that stage are still relevant so I don't understand the condemnation attitude for, you know, SPECULATION which still indirectly pertains to Corrin.

:|

 
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Patriot Duck

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I wish we could've seen DL's cancel option. We know it forces opponents onto the ground, and Corrin falls normally to the ground in the process. I'm thinking that DL cancel > landing nair/fair > followup will be the optimal course of action unless Corrin has a way to jab lock.
 

DarkDeity15

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Considering that the entire debacle about DL killing early because of "UCT's smaller blastzones" was basically negated since that clip was on Omega UCT, we in effect really haven't made an effort to learn about the stage's blastzones since the comparisons were between FD and...an Omega stage, between which the blastzone differences are trivial if not nonexistent.

So yeah...

I don't really get the whole "Stop trying to learn anything about it" mentality anyways, I mean the title of this thread is "Moveset Speculation and Discussion thread."

And although it's slightly indirect since UCT isn't a part of Corrin's moveset (duh), speculation about how Corrin's moves will perform on that stage are still relevant so I don't understand the condemnation attitude for, you know, SPECULATION which still indirectly pertains to Corrin.

:|
There are still better things to speculate about and actually find out about Corrin. Like his frame data lol. Someone needs to get on that. The whole killing thing is definitely valid though, yeah. But you should just leave it at that imo. There isn't enough information set in stone about this stage to make any valid assumptions.

But I'm pretty disgusted by the amount of false information people are spreading. One guy actually made me cringe by saying that Corrin's Nair is comparable to Zero Suit's. It pops people up for combos, that's literally it. How did you get the information to assume that Corrin's Nair is positive on shield Mr. Johan Mr. Johan ?
 
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ARGHETH

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There are still better things to speculate about and actually find out about Corrin. Like his frame data lol. Someone needs to get on that. The whole killing thing is definitely valid though, yeah. But you should just leave it at that imo. There isn't enough information set in stone about this stage to make any valid assumptions.
This stage was in omega form, so it has FD blastzones (maybe with a 1% difference) and is likely the size of FD. The problem with frame data is that we don't know the active hitboxes, which makes figuring out frames tricky. We're likely getting the frame data soon after the patch releases anyways.
 

NarukamiSSB

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As many of us know, Corrin's aerials are very strong. I'm excited to start maining her on Wednesday. I just wanted to know your guys' thoughts on the strength of Corrin's aerials, specifically up-air.
 

Raziek

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As many of us know, Corrin's aerials are very strong. I'm excited to start maining her on Wednesday. I just wanted to know your guys' thoughts on the strength of Corrin's aerials, specifically up-air.
This should not be its own thread.

Merging into moveset discussion thread.
 

DarkDeity15

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This stage was in omega form, so it has FD blastzones (maybe with a 1% difference) and is likely the size of FD. The problem with frame data is that we don't know the active hitboxes, which makes figuring out frames tricky. We're likely getting the frame data soon after the patch releases anyways.
That didn't seem to stop people from trying to get frame data information from Cloud's showcase, and they didn't even have a 60fps video to go off of.
 

ARGHETH

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That didn't seem to stop people from trying to get frame data information from Cloud's showcase, and they didn't even have a 60fps video to go off of.
We tried with the 30fps video earlier in the thread. Now we have more interesting things to talk about other than specific information about things that we can't know for sure.
 

Zult

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That didn't seem to stop people from trying to get frame data information from Cloud's showcase, and they didn't even have a 60fps video to go off of.
Where have you been the past month, bruh. We have someone who made a list of frame data from the 30fps footage. These corrin noobs coming from everywhere, jeez >_>

Edit: http://smashboards.com/threads/move...iscussion-thread.426055/page-19#post-20765187

Thank you, @Nextime

Whoops...

Still not impressed though, like I said.
Ye... Corrin won't be impressing you until she kills at 30 with tilts and has combo throws that start killing at 5 with an average frame data of 1
 
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LevinViolin

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Where have you been the past month, bruh. We have someone who made a list of frame data from the 30fps footage. These corrin noobs coming from everywhere, jeez >_>
Even around the time his frame data was speculated I was under the impression that the general consensus was to take the lists that were given with a grain of salt. There's definitely a reason to analyze the new videos for information on Corrin's frame data. Even if the margin of error on the previous lists wasn't bad, the new videos allow us to be 100% certain about his moves. If my computer wasn't so bad, I'd probably be doing that right now.
 
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Zult

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Even around the time his frame data was speculated I was under the impression that the general consensus was to take the lists that were given with a grain of salt. There's definitely a reason to analyze the new videos for information on Corrin's frame data. Even if the margin of error on the previous lists wasn't bad, the new videos allow us for 100% accuracy. If my computer wasn't so bad, I'd probably be doing that right now.
I'm just making a point that we've talked about frame data before (and it seems our predictions about most, if not all, moves frame data was correct where most moves we thought were gonna be really fast are). Right now i'm focused on what Corrin can actually do.
 

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Okay, so I was asked by sunfallSeraph sunfallSeraph to provide my comments on Corrin's available info. So I shall.

First, on movespeed. In what universe is what we have seen called SLOW?! You people are so spoiled, good lord! Sure, maybe if you are comparing Corrin's movespeed to Sheik, ZSS or Limit Cloud, then it looks slow. Ok. But she's not slow. She looks about average. And you know what? That's perfectly fine! She has TONS OF RANGE. Extra speed would most likely be excessive. If you look at the other sword wielders, speed is basically directly inverse to range. Roy and MK are fast as hell, but short range. Ike is a bit slower, but has extra range. The 'exception' to this is somewhat Cloud, who is fast, and has large range, but has a lot of start-up on many of his approach tools. Corrin's speed is just fine for the range she has.

Airspeed, fallspeed, jump height, jumpsquat all look very functional. Short hop is very close to the ground, and in the 1v1 video you see the Corrin player frequently making use of SH -> FF Uair, which has very little visible landing lag, and surprisingly great forward range. Uair looks reeeeally good. Similarly, we also see what looks like FH Fair -> Falling Nair. Nair looks to have very little landing lag and great range.

Talking about other moves.....

Jab looks great. Gentleman variant looks pretty consistent, and the rapid bite is so gigantic that I don't think there will be any worries about people falling out of it. Solid range on the initial strike, and fast.

F-tilt. Why are people saying this move is bad, wtf? Robin makes functional use of her's, and it has half the range, does less damage, and she's got a slower run speed to pivot it with! That move is going to be a fantastic ground spacer and I won't be told otherwise. There's barely any lag on it.



There is no universe in which you can convince me that is a bad move.

D-tilt looks great as well. As was pointed out, appears to have very low KBG, showing a string into Uair at 80%. Very solid ground combo starter. Great range once again.

U-tilt I am unsure on. Hitbox looks great vertically, and pretty active, but seems somewhat narrow horizontally. Will take some playing with to see how effective it is as an actually functional anti-air.

F-Smash is better than I expected. Figured it would have some apparent drawback due to the range, but based on when we saw it kill in the trailer, Pivot F-Smash will be reeeeeally good.

U-Smash looks as fast as I was hoping, but we didn't actually see it connect. Jury remains out. Same with D-Smash.

Uair looks like a better Marth Uair in every possible way. A+

Bair has the autocancel I prayed it would, so that move is going to be SUPER useful.

Dair looks surprisingly good. Start-up looks low enough that I wouldn't really call it reactable, and it's not so laggy that you can HARD punish it even if blocked.

Fair looks like it might be the god move. That move looks like it has no landing lag, and the range is NUTS. It's like Brawl marth Fair on roids.

Nair looks really useful as a spacing tool (huge range, low landing lag), but it didn't look like it did very much damage or necessarily connected reliably. Will take some playing with.

DFS is about what I expected. Not going to get an amazing follow-up at long range, but it charges very fast and has solid stun at close range. Can definitely get good payoff with it with the right read. I also saw the JP player B-reverse it while landing, so that's going to be a solid defensive mixup.

Dragon Lunge. This move looks a lot better than I thought. The direct trailer made it look like it had a ton of start-up, but evidently not if used from the air. This will be great for landing mixups, cannot wait to lab applications. @False Sense was 100% correct to note this interaction:



Being able to use that out of a pivot and bail on a kick-away if needed... really good.

Dragon's Ascent I was HOPING didn't send Corrin into helpless, but alas, it does. Still looks more than functional as a recovery. Great distance, a hitbox that reaches above the ledge, and it auto-snaps. Check, check, check.

Dragon Surge is what I expected. Probably going to be the best counter because it kills vertically? Probably? (Unless you count Ryu's Focus Attack as a 'counter-type' move.)


Throw game looks like it could potentially be a bit spotty, but if D-throw kills (it looks like it has good knock-back) then we're in business, nothing else really matters at that point.

I am very excited for this character. Has all the makings of a strong sword character.
 

Zult

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Okay, so I was asked by sunfallSeraph sunfallSeraph to provide my comments on Corrin's available info. So I shall.

First, on movespeed. In what universe is what we have seen called SLOW?! You people are so spoiled, good lord! Sure, maybe if you are comparing Corrin's movespeed to Sheik, ZSS or Limit Cloud, then it looks slow. Ok. But she's not slow. She looks about average. And you know what? That's perfectly fine! She has TONS OF RANGE. Extra speed would most likely be excessive. If you look at the other sword wielders, speed is basically directly inverse to range. Roy and MK are fast as hell, but short range. Ike is a bit slower, but has extra range. The 'exception' to this is somewhat Cloud, who is fast, and has large range, but has a lot of start-up on many of his approach tools. Corrin's speed is just fine for the range she has.

Airspeed, fallspeed, jump height, jumpsquat all look very functional. Short hop is very close to the ground, and in the 1v1 video you see the Corrin player frequently making use of SH -> FF Uair, which has very little visible landing lag, and surprisingly great forward range. Uair looks reeeeally good. Similarly, we also see what looks like FH Fair -> Falling Nair. Nair looks to have very little landing lag and great range.

Talking about other moves.....

Jab looks great. Gentleman variant looks pretty consistent, and the rapid bite is so gigantic that I don't think there will be any worries about people falling out of it. Solid range on the initial strike, and fast.

F-tilt. Why are people saying this move is bad, wtf? Robin makes functional use of her's, and it has half the range, does less damage, and she's got a slower run speed to pivot it with! That move is going to be a fantastic ground spacer and I won't be told otherwise. There's barely any lag on it.



There is no universe in which you can convince me that is a bad move.

D-tilt looks great as well. As was pointed out, appears to have very low KBG, showing a string into Uair at 80%. Very solid ground combo starter. Great range once again.

U-tilt I am unsure on. Hitbox looks great vertically, and pretty active, but seems somewhat narrow horizontally. Will take some playing with to see how effective it is as an actually functional anti-air.

F-Smash is better than I expected. Figured it would have some apparent drawback due to the range, but based on when we saw it kill in the trailer, Pivot F-Smash will be reeeeeally good.

U-Smash looks as fast as I was hoping, but we didn't actually see it connect. Jury remains out. Same with D-Smash.

Uair looks like a better Marth Uair in every possible way. A+

Bair has the autocancel I prayed it would, so that move is going to be SUPER useful.

Dair looks surprisingly good. Start-up looks low enough that I wouldn't really call it reactable, and it's not so laggy that you can HARD punish it even if blocked.

Fair looks like it might be the god move. That move looks like it has no landing lag, and the range is NUTS. It's like Brawl marth Fair on roids.

Nair looks really useful as a spacing tool (huge range, low landing lag), but it didn't look like it did very much damage or necessarily connected reliably. Will take some playing with.

DFS is about what I expected. Not going to get an amazing follow-up at long range, but it charges very fast and has solid stun at close range. Can definitely get good payoff with it with the right read. I also saw the JP player B-reverse it while landing, so that's going to be a solid defensive mixup.

Dragon Lunge. This move looks a lot better than I thought. The direct trailer made it look like it had a ton of start-up, but evidently not if used from the air. This will be great for landing mixups, cannot wait to lab applications. @False Sense was 100% correct to note this interaction:



Being able to use that out of a pivot and bail on a kick-away if needed... really good.

Dragon's Ascent I was HOPING didn't send Corrin into helpless, but alas, it does. Still looks more than functional as a recovery. Great distance, a hitbox that reaches above the ledge, and it auto-snaps. Check, check, check.

Dragon Surge is what I expected. Probably going to be the best counter because it kills vertically? Probably? (Unless you count Ryu's Focus Attack as a 'counter-type' move.)


Throw game looks like it could potentially be a bit spotty, but if D-throw kills (it looks like it has good knock-back) then we're in business, nothing else really matters at that point.

I am very excited for this character. Has all the makings of a strong sword character.
Basically said everything I've been thinking since December. I got laughed at for saying this character was gonna have some borderline OP moves like bair and fair. By the way, it was the uptilt that lead into the uair at 80 and it hits Bayonetta from the ground. And Corrin moves as fast as Mario to me like I've said before.

People are gonna see this coming Wednesday how good Corrin will be >_>
 
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