Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[OceloT42]

Soooooo gooooood
But they still haven't shown whether DL sticks to stage sides, other than that Corrin looks majestic af.
Hyped as hell.
The only stupid thing is his taunt.I mean seriously?

 

[Naragacu]

Bummer. I would have watched it live but niconi

 

[Naragacu]

Aaah I couldn't watch ii live, but I'm so hype now.

Has anyone mentioned yet how up b hit Bayo at the ledge when Corrin snapped to it at 45 seconds or so in this match? https://youtu.be/ccnQZpqvfRU
(I can't figure how to do timestamps on mobile, sorry.)

 

[OceloT42]

DL looks far more powerful than I expected.
All my fears have been assuaged.
Where's Lancer? Corrin looks too good to be true, so I need some solid analysis from him and Zult.
That victory animation is dope af.

 

[Latias]

DL looks far more powerful than I expected.
All my fears have been assuaged.
Where's Lancer? Corrin looks too good to be true, so I need some solid analysis from him and Zult.
That victory animation is dope af.

Slow run speed, mediocre air speed, bad throws, neutral b easy to deal with...

 

[sunfallSeraph]

The footage tonight was great, and I'm super excited we only have to wait until Wednesday to get our hands on these two. A few quick points based on my impressions:

Pros:

• Aerial kit looks very solid. Good looking hitboxes, nothing looked super laggy, and we have reason to believe Uair and Bair will be viable kill options. Dair will be niche, but that is to be expected. Fair seeming to autocancel from shorthop is very promising, and I just love how cool and useful Nair looks.
• Fsmash and Dragon Lunge also look solid for killing and appear relatively quick. The range on Fsmash is insane as we expected. Loved seeing the Dragon Lunge stick -> forward kick to escape the ledge situation, I'm so excited to see this move's potential.
• We saw a few strings that looking like they had combo potential such as Dash Attack -> Fair -> Uair and Dtilt -> aerial. Utilt will probably have low percent combos as with many characters.
• Dragon Ascent seems to have good distance with a decent enough hitbox to clip the ledge.
• Jab looks to do its job with good speed, range, damage, and proper rapid jab properties.

Cons:

• DFS doesn't seem useful for mid-range followups as some of us feared. It seems designed to only really reward you for landing it up close.
• Mobility is middling with a lower-half of the cast looking run speed. Nothing tragic, but nothing special either.
• Ftilt looks to have an unimpressive FAF; probably won't be very safe to throw out except from a pivot.
• Dragon Ascent has Firefox level start-up meaning it will be susceptible to offstage shenanigans if your opponent knows where you're planning to pop it.
• Dash Attack looks meh tier. Unsafe on shield as with most dash attacks, appears laggy on the end, but Kamui lowers her profile while performing it

 

[Zult]

Ok, going to make a list of every move again.

Tilts:

• Uptilt appears to have very low knock back. Combos into up air at mid-high percents. Can probably bait out an air dodge to get a tipper upsmash for an early kill.
• Ftilt is a quick spacing tool. Seems like a get away from me option. Don't see it comboing into anything.
• Down tilt seems to combo into anything really and it's really fast. Small range though. Down tilt > Up tilt > Forward air > Up air? Seems pretty deadly all from a down tilt. And we haven't even seen what Corrin does to fast fallers.

Aerials:

• Up air starts killing at ~120% in the air, not from the ground. Falling up air is as good as I thought and leads into things
• Back air is fast in terms of start up and end lag. I don't think it will be killing super early though since it only does 11% damage. Good spacing tool for sure.
• Neutral air has basically no end lag when you land with it. Seems like a good landing tool. Falling nair also combos into things like another nair or a fair.
• Forward air pops people up allowing for combos. I'm wondering if a falling fair could be really good. Auto cancels from short hop.
• Down air is a multihit confirmed. Has a landing hit box like Falco's fair. Sends people in an angle where I believe you might be able to follow up with a fsmash. Does that look possible to do? Also at the end notice how fair pops Bayonetta up perfectly for an uair

Jabs:

• Really fast. Really fast moves are good.

Specials:

• Dragon Ascent is a pretty good recovery. Low knockback though. Can hit people standing at the ledge.
• DFS (Dragon Fang Shot) seems spammable in neutral, not sure. Follow ups are possible. Have yet to see the bite in action.
• DL (Dragon Lunge) kills marth at 100% from 85%, so it dealth 15%. That's pretty strong, and Marth didn't just barely die. He was sent to the blastzone fairly quickly, so this leads me to believe it can kill as early has low 70s from the ledge. Corrin's short hop will be scary with this tool in hand, falling uairs and fairs, etc. You're gonna wanna be short hopping with Corrin. Have yet to see if it beats shield like a command grab or how much shield pressure it has. If the DL sticks an opponent it does ~8% and a kick does ~12%. That's 20% damage from a simple DL. Good as a mix up for recovery above the ledge.
• Counter kills Bayonetta at 100% from her hitting Corrin with a smash attack.

Dash Attack:

• Quick start up. Unsure about the end lag though. Hopefully is has good IASA frames. Sends the opponent at a favorable angle.

Smash Attacks:

• Only one that hit in all the videos was fsmash. Kills at 90 when you get the tipper. Seems safe from a distance on shield. Have yet to see someone get hit by the Yato when the fsmash is charging.
• Upsmash has a tipper
• Down smash has a tipper on the backside of Corrin

Throws:

• Down throw sucks at low percents. Potential kill throw?
• Back throw at low percents seems like it can combo like Cloud's down throw in a way
• Up throw and forward throw remain to be seen

Mobility:

• Below average run speed (seems similar to Mario's but that is just me eye balling it)
• Air speed is average I'd say.
• Short hop is really good
• Dash is pretty good
• Apparently floaty so he won't get combod
• Average fast fall

Will update this post with gifs

 

[OceloT42]

So is everyone satisfied?
Corrin looks really good, with deserving cons that make up for insane range etc.
Also thanks Zult for taking the trouble to upload GIFs!
WEDNESDAY COME OOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNN!!!!

 

[meowmere]

Can anybody explain why Corrin jumped so high in this clip? (second 23)

 

[Zult]

Can anybody explain why Corrin jumped so high in this clip? (second 23)

Bayonetta did a move and when you jump over someone who does a move you jump really high for whatever reason.

 

[IsmaR]

It looks like a footstool jump.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Analysis!

Good job with the clips dude! A couple things:

• Kamui has 90% when he kills Marth at 120% with Uair, so factoring in rage and Marth's weight, I think Uair will be killing later than Kamui's other options. Looks like this will be the 'I missed my confirm range so pls die to this already thx' move. Which is still good to have.
• Aerial Dragon Lunge on the other hand kills Marth very handily while Kamui barely has rage. It might be my slow eyes, but it doesn't look like Kamui even tipped it spot on? Looks like he was slightly off from a clean tipper.

 

[OceloT42]

Can anybody explain why Corrin jumped so high in this clip? (second 23)

Footstooling ofc.
If you look closely you can see Marth sobbing as a better tipper than him shows up at last.
I'm just joking Marth mains,don't lynch me.

 

[vegeta18]

people keep mentioning tipper with corrin, i know that they said that the fsmash will have a tipper mechanic to it but do we know about other moves? like does corrin have a marth style tipper mechanic to her?

 

[Zult]

people keep mentioning tipper with corrin, i know that they said that the fsmash will have a tipper mechanic to it but do we know about other moves? like does corrin have a marth style tipper mechanic to her?

Corrin has a tipper on all smash attacks. For down smash it's only the backside though.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Something else to note that I've personally been curious about for a while now:

Turn the video speed down and you can see that there's a little bit of endlag on the Dragon Lunge kick but not too much. This will be important because we'll need to understand when and against whom it is safe to throw out these kicks against shielding or distant opponents. I can see the twitchier characters being able to capitalize if they figure out where you're going, but the slower/shorter range characters might not. Something to keep in mind, but I'm not worried since it'll be difficult for anyone to cover all four built-in DL options.

 

[G-Guy]

I am extremely satisfied with what I have seen.

DL looks a lot faster and even more versitile than I expected, as does fsmash.

Thursday cannot come soon enough!

 

[False Sense]

Have to say, what we've seen of Corrin so far has greatly exceeded my expectations. Can't wait to get my hands on that DLC.

 

[PK Gaming]

Did anyone point out that Corrin can do 2 Fairs after a FH?

We Brawl Marth now.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Did anyone point out that Corrin can do 2 Fairs after a FH?

We Brawl Marth now.

Smash 4 Marth can do that >.>

 

[PK Gaming]

Smash 4 Marth can do that >.>

Can he do it at the apex of his jump?

 

[meowmere]

As most of you, I'm really happy so far with how Corrin turned out. Of course, the run speed is disappointing. But that doesn't matter to me. Well, it matters to you if you have been maining a character that's quite fast, it will be a big change for you when playing with Corrin.
On the other hand, I have been playing with Olimar and Lucina most of the time. Those two are by far not the fastest characters out there, so for me it's not problem at all to adjust to Corrin's run speed.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Can he do it at the apex of his jump?

yeah

 

[Bribery]

Very pleased with Corrin's moveset. The run speed is a little disappointing but it's necessary for balance given how much range his moves have. His moveset actually looks pretty fast for how much range he has.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

There is still hope that tip spikes.

 

[alguidrag]

Well, i play with robin, so his run speed is no problem to me (dud... dl kills)

 

[Armagon]

There is still hope that tip spikes.

Even if it doesn't spike (i hope it does spike) we can be glad that it does kill offstage.

I'm gonna have fun using Dragon Lunge on offstage Little Macs.

 

[young grasshopper]

Even if it doesn't spike (i hope it does spike) we can be glad that it does kill offstage.

I'm gonna have fun using Dragon Lunge on offstage Little Macs.

no need to cross it out. Little Macs should never be offstage , anyways

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Fair to Side B spikes/kills lets make it happen and lets call it Not Ken Combo.

 

[alguidrag]

no need to cross it out. Little Macs should never be offstage , anyways

Only for the disrespect

 

[exnecross]

Ok, going to make a list of every move again.

Tilts:

• Uptilt appears to have very low knock back. Combos into up air at mid-high percents. Can probably bait out an air dodge to get a tipper upsmash for an early kill.
• Ftilt is a quick spacing tool. Seems like a get away from me option. Don't see it comboing into anything.
• Down tilt seems to combo into anything really and it's really fast. Small range though. Down tilt > Up tilt > Forward air > Up air? Seems pretty deadly all from a down tilt. And we haven't even seen what Corrin does to fast fallers.

Aerials:

• Up air starts killing at ~120% in the air, not from the ground. Falling up air is as good as I thought and leads into things
• Back air is fast in terms of start up and end lag. I don't think it will be killing super early though since it only does 11% damage. Good spacing tool for sure.
• Neutral air has basically no end lag when you land with it. Seems like a good landing tool. Falling nair also combos into things like another nair or a fair.
• Forward air pops people up allowing for combos. I'm wondering if a falling fair could be really good. Auto cancels from short hop.
• Down air is a multihit confirmed. Has a landing hit box like Falco's fair. Sends people in an angle where I believe you might be able to follow up with a fsmash. Does that look possible to do? Also at the end notice how fair pops Bayonetta up perfectly for an uair

Jabs:

• Really fast. Really fast moves are good.

Specials:

• Dragon Ascent is a pretty good recovery. Low knockback though. Can hit people standing at the ledge.
• DFS (Dragon Fang Shot) seems spammable in neutral, not sure. Follow ups are possible. Have yet to see the bite in action.
• DL (Dragon Lunge) kills marth at 100% from 85%, so it dealth 15%. That's pretty strong, and Marth didn't just barely die. He was sent to the blastzone fairly quickly, so this leads me to believe it can kill as early has low 70s from the ledge. Corrin's short hop will be scary with this tool in hand, falling uairs and fairs, etc. You're gonna wanna be short hopping with Corrin. Have yet to see if it beats shield like a command grab or how much shield pressure it has. If the DL sticks an opponent it does ~8% and a kick does ~12%. That's 20% damage from a simple DL. Good as a mix up for recovery above the ledge.
• Counter kills Bayonetta at 100% from her hitting Corrin with a smash attack.

Dash Attack:

• Quick start up. Unsure about the end lag though. Hopefully is has good IASA frames. Sends the opponent at a favorable angle.

Smash Attacks:

• Only one that hit in all the videos was fsmash. Kills at 90 when you get the tipper. Seems safe from a distance on shield. Have yet to see someone get hit by the Yato when the fsmash is charging.
• Upsmash has a tipper
• Down smash has a tipper on the backside of Corrin

Throws:

• Down throw sucks at low percents. Potential kill throw?
• Back throw at low percents seems like it can combo like Cloud's down throw in a way
• Up throw and forward throw remain to be seen

Mobility:

• Below average run speed (seems similar to Mario's but that is just me eye balling it)
• Air speed is average I'd say.
• Short hop is really good
• Dash is pretty good
• Apparently floaty so he won't get combod
• Average fast fall

Will update this post with gifs

I think he has a way above average fast fall speed actually. In one of the videos he fell from FH distance to below stage level in an instant. It looks to be around Sheik's fast fall speed.

 

[Armagon]

no need to cross it out. Little Macs should never be offstage , anyways

That's the point. Alpharad taught me that killing a Little Mac offstage is great.

 

[Deleted member]

Something else to note that I've personally been curious about for a while now:

Turn the video speed down and you can see that there's a little bit of endlag on the Dragon Lunge kick but not too much. This will be important because we'll need to understand when and against whom it is safe to throw out these kicks against shielding or distant opponents. I can see the twitchier characters being able to capitalize if they figure out where you're going, but the slower/shorter range characters might not. Something to keep in mind, but I'm not worried since it'll be difficult for anyone to cover all four built-in DL options.

I do feel that even with such (tbh surprisingly) low endlag on the kicks that it will probably lose to shield simply because I'm doubtful that it will cross-up properly save for close-range kicks.

I'm interested to see the practical applications of the cancel option. Even if it is (presumably) techable I feel it could still lead to follow-ups aside from tech chases because DL allows the player to mix up the timing of their DL cancel. This is unlike say, Ganon's Flame Choke which of course has a set timing after the grab (which I couldn't tech if my life depended on it, lmao).

From a missed tech you got the basic Dtilt -> Uair(which for the purposes of this post I am assuming is a possible true option) or (maybe? Depends on frames and stuff) Dtilt -> Fair -> Uair, possibly Dtilt -> Utilt, possibly uncharged DFS -> Bite (which probably won't do too much without charge but the option possibly exists), Jab, which may or may not cause resets (I'm doubtful, personally),and Ftilt (same reset comment as for Jab). It will also be interesting to see if F-Smash's charge hitbox can hit opponents in knockdown (character hurtbox-size-dependent of course) so then maybe charge hitbox -> Non-tipper F-Smash could be a thing, and D-Smash could also be a practical thing if we assume that D-Smash's frontside damage doesn't have trash base damage nor is affected by tipper properties (since the hit is done with Omega Yato as opposed to Dragon Fang).

 

[LancerStaff]

I think he has a way above average fast fall speed actually. In one of the videos he fell from FH distance to below stage level in an instant. It looks to be around Sheik's fast fall speed.

Only two characters in the whole game have "special" fastfall speed, Ryu at a 40% increase and Link at a whopping 90%. Every other character is 60%.

Just find it unlikely.

 

[OceloT42]

Only two characters in the whole game have "special" fastfall speed, Ryu at a 40% increase and Link at a whopping 90%. Every other character is 60%.

Just find it unlikely.

I'm interested to read your analysis.
Does he look good? Bad? Godly? Trash?

 

[exnecross]

Only two characters in the whole game have "special" fastfall speed, Ryu at a 40% increase and Link at a whopping 90%. Every other character is 60%.

Just find it unlikely.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/FallSpeed
That's only the boost. His fast fall appears to be well above average because his fall speed looks above average.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm interested to read your analysis.
Does he look good? Bad? Godly? Trash?

Hm? I did a bit of an analysis a page or two back. Long of the short is that he desperately needs an easy way to seal a stock before 150%. Otherwise he doesn't seem too special, since his grab reward looks pretty bad. You can't even say Cloud has bad grab reward because he gets to charge up some limit for free...

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/FallSpeed
That's only the boost. His fast fall appears to be well above average because his fall speed looks above average.

His fallspeed looks to be about Pit level. You don't want him to be a fast faller anyhow... With the exceptionally bad Dair and otherwise only one decent option to land with (no lingering aerial hitboxes probably hurts a bit) he'd be combo fodder if he fell anywhere near as fast as Sheik.

His disadvantage right now doesn't even look that great.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Did anyone point out that Corrin can do 2 Fairs after a FH?

We Brawl Marth now.

You mean 2 fairs from a SH? No idea, but it would be pretty neat. The move itself does remind me of a tippered Melee/Brawl Marth's fair though when it comes to it's behavior. It has great range, comes out quick, and pops up at an angle that's great for follow ups (I remember seeing Corrin get a landing Fair > Nair at some point). Perhaps it has a sour spot that behaves similar to Melee Marth's?

 

[exnecross]

Be

Hm? I did a bit of an analysis a page or two back. Long of the short is that he desperately needs an easy way to seal a stock before 150%. Otherwise he doesn't seem too special, since his grab reward looks pretty bad. You can't even say Cloud has bad grab reward because he gets to charge up some limit for free...



His fallspeed looks to be about Pit level. You don't want him to be a fast faller anyhow... With the exceptionally bad Dair and otherwise only one decent option to land with (no lingering aerial hitboxes probably hurts a bit) he'd be combo fodder if he fell anywhere near as fast as Sheik.

His disadvantage right now doesn't even look that great.

Being a fast faller is important for tomahawking and closing distance, and especially beneficial for someone who will be primarily using aerials on stage. I just watched the nico match again, and the fall speed really does look above average. I'm just comparing It to sheik who I have memorized and they don't seem too different.

 

[Planty]

In the 1v1 on Coliseum, we see that Corrin's F-tilt is unsafe on hit at 0%. That's unfortunate, but I don't think it's an important move anyways.