Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[LordShade67]

Landing NAir looks like it could potentially be a combo starter. In the FFA vid at around 1:03, Corrin lands a NAir, lands, then follows up with another one.

 

[Zult]

Observe at ~3:04:

Kamui's run speed coupled with some end lag coupled with knockback means that Bayo is way out of follow-up range/hitstun after B-Throw at as low as at least 39%

Looks like it can combo at 0. That's it though. Maybe charge a fsmash incase they air dodge.

 

[Zult]

Landing NAir looks like it could potentially be a combo starter. In the FFA vid at around 1:03, Corrin lands a NAir, lands, then follows up with another one.

He could have kept going too, omg

 

[exnecross]

Looks like it can combo at 0. That's it though. Maybe charge a fsmash incase they air dodge.

I wouldn't count on it. D throw looked to have a ton of KB though, so hopefully it is a kill throw. Kill throws are just as good as combo throws imo.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dash attack does 12%.

Very good

Looks really punishable though. Yaknow, more then usual... Poor running speed also hinders it.

Moveset Damages, assumed to be final.

Don't forget freshness is boosting everything. A direct comparison to Kurogane's data would be inaccurate to say the least.

Comparing to Pit off the top of my head, that's looking kinda poor...

Also Bayo has a f9 jab, if anybody's wondering. Assuming it hits closer a frame earlier that's equal to Dorf's. Like, wow, Sakurai wasn't kidding...

 

[Zult]

I wouldn't count on it. D throw looked to have a ton of KB though, so hopefully it is a kill throw. Kill throws are just as good as combo throws imo.

Sigh. A lot of info, but still no clue if any kill throws or if DL beats shield.

Falling uair, fair, and nair lead into other things plus a good short hop. Bair spaces well and has low end lag. Dair has a landing hit box like falco's fair. So the aerials are looking great.

Literally the only smash attack shown was Fsmash, which was good.

Counter kills Bayo at 100 when hit by Bayo's smash attack. DL kills surprisingly. No idea if DFS has good follow ups yet besides dash attack, and no idea if dash attack has follow ups. Have yet to see the bite. Recovery isn't trash.

Tilts look godlike. Barely sends people anywhere at mid percents. Utilt comboing into uair at 80. Wow.

Jabs are crazy fast.

Trash throws so far.

Below average run speed.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, but I need to know more ;-;

 

[Zult]

Looks really punishable though. Yaknow, more then usual... Poor running speed also hinders it.



Don't forget freshness is boosting everything. A direct comparison to Kurogane's data would be inaccurate to say the least.

Comparing to Pit off the top of my head, that's looking kinda poor...

Also Bayo has a f9 jab, if anybody's wondering. Assuming it hits closer a frame earlier that's equal to Dorf's. Like, wow, Sakurai wasn't kidding...

Bayo seems really slow in neutral, but once she gets a hit in she will go in. Still, a bad neutral is really... bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't forget freshness is boosting everything. A direct comparison to Kurogane's data would be inaccurate to say the least.

I never said I was trying to be the next Kurogane Hammer.

Moveset data pertaining to damage at its freshest state is still important anyways so I don't see why you have a problem with it.

EDIT: In looking over Kurogane's data for Link and comparing them to what I considered the percentages for his moveset to be, my idea of the numbers just from remembering them from observation (at their fresh state) in the game match with the numbers he has listed save for moves which do non-integer base damage, in which case the difference is trivial.

So I don't think my numbers for Kamui will be too inaccurate to say the least.

 

[exnecross]

Sigh. A lot of info, but still no clue if any kill throws or if DL beats shield.

Falling uair, fair, and nair lead into other things plus a good short hop. Bair spaces well and has low end lag. Dair has a landing hit box like falco's fair. So the aerials are looking great.

Literally the only smash attack shown was Fsmash, which was good.

Counter kills Bayo at 100 when hit by Bayo's smash attack. DL kills surprisingly. No idea if DFS has good follow ups yet besides dash attack, and no idea if dash attack has follow ups. Have yet to see the bite. Recovery isn't trash.

Tilts look godlike. Barely sends people anywhere at mid percents. Utilt comboing into uair at 80. Wow.

Jabs are crazy fast.

Trash throws so far.

Below average run speed.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, but I need to know more ;-;

Where did utilt combo at 80%? His tilts didn't seem all that impressive to me. He seems great in the air and pretty bad on the ground. Short hop seems great, that will likely be his main form of movement. Fsmash seems safe, but I don't know if he even wants to be on the ground in the first place.

Also his jab looks incredible.

 

[Zult]

Where did utilt combo at 80%? His tilts didn't seem all that impressive to me. He seems great in the air and pretty bad on the ground. Short hop seems great, that will likely be his main form of movement. Fsmash seems safe, but I don't know if he even wants to be on the ground in the first place.

Also his jab looks incredible.

https://youtu.be/Nhjxc5Inc4w?t=83

 

[exnecross]

https://youtu.be/Nhjxc5Inc4w?t=83

Hopefully it can lead into kills, then PP utilt will be nice. Shame about the range though, seems really bad compared to similar utilts like shulk and zss.

 

[LancerStaff]

I never said I was trying to be the next Kurogane Hammer.

Moveset data pertaining to damage at its freshest state is still important anyways so I don't see why you have a problem with it.

I ment that people shouldn't literally compare it to KH and come to conclusions like that...

Freshness can push a powerful move (like an uncharged smash) to be even 2% stronger, and since decimal damage is a thing (literally damage less then 1%, look at Pit's Nair) it can "build up" so to speak and then if a weaker move adds enough it'll look as if it does a whole percent more then it is in reality. Also meaning this isn't accurate freshness data, but that's really not what I was getting at...

 

[TTTTTsd]

Worth noting, don't get too comfy with Bair as an approach. It pushes Corrin backwards (watch the footage again). Has a sort of kickback to it + decent-ish startup. Still a great move but not the godslayer it could've been, for good reason I imagine.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Corrin's Uair kills, and Dtilt is what Roy's Dtilt should've been. Fair also pops people up like Melee Marth tipped Fairs for potential follow ups. These DLC characters are ridiculous lol, there better be loads of buffs for the next balance patch.

 

[exnecross]

Worth noting, don't get too comfy with Bair as an approach. It pushes Corrin backwards (watch the footage again). Has a sort of kickback to it + decent-ish startup. Still a great move but not the godslayer it could've been, for good reason I imagine.

The auto-spacing is what's so good about it. It's not supposed to be an approach option; rather it is for safely spacing around. Corrin will probably have issues approaching.

 

[TTTTTsd]

The auto-spacing is what's so good about it. It's not supposed to be an approach option; rather it is for safely spacing around. Corrin will probably have issues approaching.

If it no no kickback with that AC window it would be strictly a better move because of the giant hitbox it throws out, no questions in my mind. The kickback is there so that it's not that obnoxious lol.

Just trust me on this one.

 

[exnecross]

If it no no kickback with that AC window it would be strictly a better move because of the giant hitbox it throws out, no questions in my mind. The kickback is there so that it's not that obnoxious lol.

Just trust me on this one.

I don't agree. I think the backwards push makes it much better, and it also doubles as a horizontal recovery tool. The pushback makes it nearly unpunishable and literally does the spacing for you.

 

[shrooby]

Worth noting, don't get too comfy with Bair as an approach. It pushes Corrin backwards (watch the footage again). Has a sort of kickback to it + decent-ish startup. Still a great move but not the godslayer it could've been, for good reason I imagine.

The push back is actually one of the best parts about it.
You wouldn't be approaching with it (at least that's not why I'm hyped about the move). You'd be baiting/playing neutral with it.
Already has great range and little cooldown, it looks like. Combine with the push back the move seems really safe on shield.
So, in theory, I bair you, you shield, I'm now too far away for you to punish me.
Just a safe move to throw out and see how your opponent reacts, whether it hits them or not.

If anything which is bad, the pushback will probably prevent grabbing from being an option afterwards. But having a safe move on shield to just throw out if always amazing. Pushback also means the spacing for it being safe (I'd imagine) isn't that tight. Making it better for just throwing out.
Depending on how safe fsmash is, that could make or break some practicalities.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Automatic stuff tends to lose out organically to stuff that gives you more control because you are given more mixup/more option if you can fadeaway or NOT fadeaway rather than be locked in to one specific thing. This is why Mario's Bair is so good.

So no I don't believe the kickback makes it strictly better, sorry. I don't think anyone can convince me that being able to weave with a big ass hitbox would be a downgrade from this.

Note that I am not saying the move is bad but come on. The kickback has its uses too (recovery mostly) but I'm not really budging on the idea that being able to go forward with it (with that autocancel and range) OR go backward and not worry about kickback wouldn't be the solely better alternative. More control is never a bad thing, everrr. Not even just for shorthops, please imagine what no kickback Fullhop Bairs would look like. Incredibly stupid, probably.

On the note of Air Side-B it looks like it's one of the best ways to just skip ledgesnaps and land on-stage by pinning yourself on the stage when approaching the ledge from above. Nice mixup potential.

 

[Nu~]

Am I the only one that thinks it CAN potentially be used as a good cross up option?

Space with sh Fairs and nairs until your opponent is conditioned into shielding in mid range. Then, sh Bair through someone while facing them. If spaced right, the attack hits their shield and you end up behind them.

But it would depend on how long the hitbox stays out...

 

[free33]

Automatic stuff tends to lose out organically to stuff that gives you more control because you are given more mixup/more option if you can fadeaway or NOT fadeaway rather than be locked in to one specific thing. This is why Mario's Bair is so good.

So no I don't believe the kickback makes it strictly better, sorry. I don't think anyone can convince me that being able to weave with a big *** hitbox would be a downgrade from this.

Note that I am not saying the move is bad but come on. The kickback has its uses too (recovery mostly) but I'm not really budging on the idea that being able to go forward with it (with that autocancel and range) OR go backward and not worry about kickback wouldn't be the solely better alternative. More control is never a bad thing, everrr. Not even just for shorthops, please imagine what no kickback Fullhop Bairs would look like. Incredibly stupid, probably.

On the note of Air Side-B it looks like it's one of the best ways to just skip ledgesnaps and land on-stage by pinning yourself on the stage when approaching the ledge from above. Nice mixup potential.

look at lucas's PK Fire. It auto spaces in the air, making it a much safer option/spacing tool. if it didn't do that, then sure you would technically have more control, but fading back is what makes the move better anyway, so the auto spacing is good imo. the auto spacing is literally a substitute for something that would be good to do anyway: space safely on shield.

 

[Zult]

I'm drooling with all the ideas I'm coming up with plus the ones I'm reading. Looks like everyone's Corrin will be different and unique. Looking like a creative character instead of a flow chart character.

 

[TTTTTsd]

look at lucas's PK Fire. It auto spaces in the air, making it a much safer option/spacing tool. if it didn't do that, then sure you would technically have more control, but fading back is what makes the move better anyway, so the auto spacing is good imo. the auto spacing is literally a substitute for something that would be good to do anyway: space safely on shield.

It's very different when it's a projectile with high endlag and not giant dragon wings that cover a lot of space horizontally. It also comes out a bit faster than PK Fire I imagine.

Very different characters.

 

[Zult]

It's very different when it's a projectile with high endlag and not giant dragon wings that cover a lot of space horizontally. It also comes out a bit faster than PK Fire I imagine.

Very different characters.

I actually understand what you're saying. Having it not push you back could be good in its own way. If the end lag permits it, you could do some nice shield pressure if it didn't push you back. But alas, it pushes you back and that also has its own advantages.

 

[shrooby]

Automatic stuff tends to lose out organically to stuff that gives you more control because you are given more mixup/more option if you can fadeaway or NOT fadeaway rather than be locked in to one specific thing. This is why Mario's Bair is so good.

So no I don't believe the kickback makes it strictly better, sorry. I don't think anyone can convince me that being able to weave with a big *** hitbox would be a downgrade from this.

Note that I am not saying the move is bad but come on. The kickback has its uses too (recovery mostly) but I'm not really budging on the idea that being able to go forward with it (with that autocancel and range) OR go backward and not worry about kickback wouldn't be the solely better alternative. More control is never a bad thing, everrr. Not even just for shorthops, please imagine what no kickback Fullhop Bairs would look like. Incredibly stupid, probably.

On the note of Air Side-B it looks like it's one of the best ways to just skip ledgesnaps and land on-stage by pinning yourself on the stage when approaching the ledge from above. Nice mixup potential.

The move would be better/have more application with no pushback imo. I'm just saying the pushback isn't strictly bad. It's actually good, for the reasons I said.
I was never thinking of approaching with it haha. When I say "one of the best parts about it" I mean "makes what I'd want to do with the move even better." Which is space and retreat.
With no pushback I wouldn't be using it for that. But it's there so there ya go~

 

[DarkDeity15]

It seems like you'll be able to follow up off of his projectile which is always good. Loads of start up though from the looks of it.

 

[Zult]

Well, we still have DL. We can probably use that instead of bair for shield pressure assuming dragon lunge doesn't beat shield. It does ~15% damage so the shield stun/push back has to be decent. It is also the side b, so we can short hopping backwards having them expect a bair and then BAM, dragon lunge comes out.

 

[Delzethin]

It seems like you'll be able to follow up off of his projectile which is always good. Loads of start up though from the looks of it.

You basically want to use it like ZSS' paralyzer. Won't be able to capitalize as easily since Corrin isn't as fast, but the hitbox is bigger and we do have a fsmash with ludicrous range...

 

[C0rvus]

Hoping he has a combo throw, and his kill options look scarce, but otherwise the footage has exceeded my expectations. Hyped for Wednesday.

 

[Nu~]

Hoping he has a combo throw, and his kill options look scarce, but otherwise the footage has exceeded my expectations. Hyped for Wednesday.

Dtilt -> Uair looks like it may be a kill confirm

Dtilt seems to have really low knockback growth so it can put Corrin in prime positioning to use his high knockback Uair.


As for raw kill moves, we know that fsmash, side B, Uair, and Bair kill.

 

[PikachuMexicano]

Automatic stuff tends to lose out organically to stuff that gives you more control because you are given more mixup/more option if you can fadeaway or NOT fadeaway rather than be locked in to one specific thing. This is why Mario's Bair is so good.

So no I don't believe the kickback makes it strictly better, sorry. I don't think anyone can convince me that being able to weave with a big *** hitbox would be a downgrade from this.

Note that I am not saying the move is bad but come on. The kickback has its uses too (recovery mostly) but I'm not really budging on the idea that being able to go forward with it (with that autocancel and range) OR go backward and not worry about kickback wouldn't be the solely better alternative. More control is never a bad thing, everrr. Not even just for shorthops, please imagine what no kickback Fullhop Bairs would look like. Incredibly stupid, probably.

On the note of Air Side-B it looks like it's one of the best ways to just skip ledgesnaps and land on-stage by pinning yourself on the stage when approaching the ledge from above. Nice mixup potential.

There is also the posiblity that the pushback might stop momentum and lead to more survivability, and some mix-ups

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Ftilt looking pretty good

 

[LancerStaff]

Unless Corrin has a kill throw or something like that I'm not going to be changing my tune. You can be loaded with ways to kill sub 100% but if they all require a hard read or tons of precision there's nothing stopping you from being Marth or Roy tier. Or Zelda tier. With damage per hit being at least similar to Pit he's not going to be getting damage spectacularally fast.

If Corrin was literally Marth with a throw that kills at 140% he'd be a potential high tier, no joke. Likewise, if he was Pit without his Fthrow he'd be sad and pathetic. That's just how important killing off a grab is.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

The backthrow forced him to tech on stage... so assuming he had throw him offstage he could of set up for a fsmash or DFS. Also i think backthrow might kill... that sent him pretty far for 40%.

Also~

Fair seems like it has decent IASA frames and Nair is a good landing option.

Dash attack > Fair > Up air

 

[PikachuMexicano]

Unless Corrin has a kill throw or something like that I'm not going to be changing my tune. You can be loaded with ways to kill sub 100% but if they all require a hard read or tons of precision there's nothing stopping you from being Marth or Roy tier. Or Zelda tier. With damage per hit being at least similar to Pit he's not going to be getting damage spectacularally fast.

If Corrin was literally Marth with a throw that kills at 140% he'd be a potential high tier, no joke. Likewise, if he was Pit without his Fthrow he'd be sad and pathetic. That's just how important killing off a grab is.

I think it's safe to say that his tilts might confirm into a kill.
Maybe he has some other setups. I'm itching to lab this character

 

[Zionaze]

The 4player video showed corrin getting a tipper fsmash that killed bayonetta across the stage at 90%

 

[LancerStaff]

The backthrow forced him to tech on stage... so assuming he had throw him offstage he could of set up for a fsmash or DFS. Also i think backthrow might kill... that sent him pretty far for 40%.

Not going to count chickens before they hatch. Bthrow could launch people just an inch away from the blastzone and never kill if it had no growth, kinda like what Marth has... Pit's Fthrow is also a combo throw at really low percents and still kills. Sensing a pattern here.

Even if Bthrow's good, Corrin looks to be the type who'll struggle to get grabs.

I think it's safe to say that his tilts might confirm into a kill.

I really don't think so... Dtilt > Uair doesn't seem like the thing that'll work at kill percents. And Marth has Jab 1 > Fsmash and yet he's still Marth.

 

[DarkDeity15]

The backthrow forced him to tech on stage... so assuming he had throw him offstage he could of set up for a fsmash or DFS. Also i think backthrow might kill... that sent him pretty far for 40%.

Also~

Fair seems like it has decent IASA frames and Nair is a good landing option.

Dash attack > Fair > Up air

Bayonetta very clearly double jumped after the dash attack though.

I really don't think so... Dtilt > Uair doesn't seem like the thing that'll work at kill percents. And Marth has Jab 1 > Fsmash and yet he's still Marth.

To me it does. It seems amazing for follow ups judging by what's been shown.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Bayonetta very clearly double jumped after the dash attack though.

If you buffer SH fair it would have most likely caught the jump.

 

[DarkDeity15]

If you buffer SH fair it would have most likely caught the jump.

Isn't that what he did though? You can easily escape the string with an airdodge. Even if it does work it's probably very % specific.