Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Mr_Kreep3r]

I'm still they only one that thinks backthrow is going to be amazing

Tech chase throws.

 

[Zult]

I'm still they only one that thinks backthrow is going to be amazing

Tech chase throws.

I definitely think there will be some follow up at 0-10%. Back throw to ftilt. Back throw to dash attack. Back throw to DL o: Back throw to DFS to chase tech rolls and if they roll in to dodge it they get hit by the bite after.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still they only one that thinks backthrow is going to be amazing

Tech chase throws.

Tech roll away though.

Given Kamui's speed I imagine her options would be limited to cover the distance from a tech roll away (generally speaking). Like, reasonably she could probably only follow with maybe a Dash attack or DFS, the latter which we know has no follow-ups from anywhere outside of the midrange, possibly a tipper F-Smash, but all of that depends on if the opponent DIs wrong, assuming B-throw can be reasonably influenced by DI. If they DI the thing up they can probably just jump away and avoid all possible follow-up options completely as their hitstun will end before they hit the ground.

Doesn't really seem all that amazing for the purpose of the applications about which you're speaking, tbh, it might not even have any applications outside of just throwing the opponent away to take stage control or force the opponent offstage, just from looking at it.

 

[Mechaglacier]

I still wonder why having a combo throw or a kill throw is a necessity especially since plenty of combos start from attacks and not grabs

 

[ARGHETH]

I still wonder why having a combo throw or a kill throw is a necessity especially since plenty of combos start from attacks and not grabs

While it's not needed, getting damage off of grabs is useful because grabs beat shield. If you have neither (and if DL doesn't beat shield), the opponent can shield more without risking too much. They can't just shield, of course, but it makes shields strong against him.

 

[False Sense]

Speaking of throws, we haven't seen U-Throw used outside of the initial reveal trailer, correct?

Judging by the apparently high knockback of D-Throw, and the dragon transformation they share, there's a fair chance it could have kill power.

Though if we don't have a good kill throw, it's not the end of the world. As long as we can still get kills when needed and can apply shield pressure, it's not a necessity.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Tech roll away though.

Given Kamui's speed I imagine her options would be limited to cover the distance from a tech roll away (generally speaking). Like, reasonably she could probably only follow with maybe a Dash attack or DFS, the latter which we know has no follow-ups from anywhere outside of the midrange, possibly a tipper F-Smash, but all of that depends on if the opponent DIs wrong, assuming B-throw can be reasonably influenced by DI. If they DI the thing up they can probably just jump away and avoid all possible follow-up options completely as their hitstun will end before they hit the ground.

Doesn't really seem all that amazing for the purpose of the applications about which you're speaking, tbh, it might not even have any applications outside of just throwing the opponent away to take stage control or force the opponent offstage, just from looking at it.

If you tech roll away you give up stage control and now I'm center stage with my Bairs DFS and long reaching Fsmash... and this only at 40% ish lower it could combo higher it could set up edge guards.

 

[ZephyrYoshi]

I'm still they only one that thinks backthrow is going to be amazing

Tech chase throws.

I'm getting the vibe that bthrow will be a kill throw. This depends on whether it has a lot of knockback growth though.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Speed really isn't that bad... this is @1:50 in demonstration after jabs

 

[Zult]

I'm getting the vibe that bthrow will be a kill throw. This depends on whether it has a lot of knockback growth though.

Looks weak to me. If anything, I'm expecting up throw or down throw to kill. It just wouldn't make sense for a throw to look so powerful to not kill. It would look so funny if people are living from up throw at like 130 or 140 considering they are getting tossed up by a freakin dragon.

 

[Deleted member]

If you tech roll away you give up stage control and now I'm center stage with my Bairs DFS and long reaching Fsmash... and this only at 40% ish lower it could combo higher it could set up edge guards.

Well, considering that Corrin can only reasonably cover tech in place and roll in with her kit, it's likely she'll want to look towards potential damage from those tech options, i.e. she'll be looking to cover them, so if I tech in place I risk eating tipper F-Smash or charged DFS -> possible (but limited) followups on the getup frames, at lower percent's I'm in CQC range for any of Corrin's CQC options, at which point if those options actually happen, which are fairly likely, I take damage and lose stage control anyways. If I roll in I risk getting punished even harder since I am then in DFS's optimal range as well as in even closer range of Corrin's CQC, so then I take even more damage and lose stage control or am placed in an otherwise disadvantageous position. Hell, even in the GIF you posted Bayonetta got punished with a Dash Attack for rolling in and lost stage control anyways.

Bair's pushback means I can just walk and powershield and eventually I'll be back near center stage since Corrin is moving away from me (granted a player probably won't just spam AC Bair, but my point stands), DFS has a trivial amount of shield damage/stun , is very easy to react to, and because of its albeit slight however still existent endlag that won't stop me from moving back towards center stage either.

Fsmash is also potentially reactable.

The point is, why would I tech in place or roll in and risk getting punished hard (since that is the range in which Corrin can effectively and should effectively punish), take damage, and then lose stage control, when I can temporarily relinquish stage control and work to get it back while only taking minimal (if any) damage?

You said it yourself, "Tech Chase Throws," if I can roll away and easily escape a tech chase why wouldn't I choose to do that?

I never said it couldn't be used for setting up edge situations, I made a point to state that positioning from the throw itself seems its major practical utility.

I'll let you take center stage all day long if I have a percent lead and can avoid the risk of losing it because I chose to tech to within punishable range. Especially if I can pester you with stuff from a distance, if not, then you still have to approach me anyways. If I don't have a percent lead, then yeah I'll have to approach after giving up stage control, that's life, but it's better than being down by additional percent in the process.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Where have you been the past month, bruh. We have someone who made a list of frame data from the 30fps footage. These corrin noobs coming from everywhere, jeez >_>

Edit: http://smashboards.com/threads/move...iscussion-thread.426055/page-19#post-20765187

Thank you, @Nextime



Ye... Corrin won't be impressing you until she kills at 30 with tilts and has combo throws that start killing at 5 with an average frame data of 1

Why the hell has no one been talking about this and why is there no frame data thread? Have you ever thought about why so many people aren't informed about Corrin's frame data? And I'm the noob. Sure lol.

 

[ZephyrYoshi]

Why the hell has no one been talking about this and why is there no frame data thread? Have you ever thought about why so many people aren't informed about Corrin's frame data? And I'm the noob. Sure lol.

that stuff's usually data mined, isn't it?

 

[DarkDeity15]

that stuff's usually data mined, isn't it?

I didn't think that Corrin's data would actually be in the game already though. Usually it would be all over the place whenever that happens. There would usually also be a thread about it asap. Not sure why you guys are taking your time about it.

 

[Zult]

We might have maintenance the day before the DLC release and that's when things will get data mined. Besides, I already know what is fast and what isn't after 2 months of re-watching Corrin's trailer. I'm more interested in the FAF and IASA frames since that's hard to gauge from a video.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Well, considering that Corrin can only reasonably cover tech in place and roll in with her kit, it's likely she'll want to look towards potential damage from those tech options, i.e. she'll be looking to cover them, so if I tech in place I risk eating tipper F-Smash or charged DFS -> possible (but limited) followups on the getup frames, at lower percent's I'm in CQC range for any of Corrin's CQC options, at which point if those options actually happen, which are fairly likely, I take damage and lose stage control anyways. If I roll in I risk getting punished even harder since I am then in DFS's optimal range as well as in even closer range of Corrin's CQC, so then I take even more damage and lose stage control or am placed in an otherwise disadvantageous position. Hell, even in the GIF you posted Bayonetta got punished with a Dash Attack for rolling in and lost stage control anyways.

Bair's pushback means I can just walk and powershield and eventually I'll be back near center stage since Corrin is moving away from me (granted a player probably won't just spam AC Bair, but my point stands), DFS has a trivial amount of shield damage/stun , is very easy to react to, and because of its albeit slight however still existent endlag that won't stop me from moving back towards center stage either.

Fsmash is also potentially reactable.

The point is, why would I tech in place or roll in and risk getting punished hard (since that is the range in which Corrin can effectively and should effectively punish), take damage, and then lose stage control, when I can temporarily relinquish stage control and work to get it back while only taking minimal (if any) damage?

You said it yourself, "Tech Chase Throws," if I can roll away and easily escape a tech chase why wouldn't I choose to do that?

I never said it couldn't be used for setting up edge situations, I made a point to state that positioning from the throw itself seems its major practical utility.

I'll let you take center stage all day long if I have a percent lead and can avoid the risk of losing it because I chose to tech to within punishable range. Especially if I can pester you with stuff from a distance, if not, then you still have to approach me anyways. If I don't have a percent lead, then yeah I'll have to approach after giving up stage control, that's life, but it's better than being down by additional percent in the process.

The tech away like you said could still be covered by dash attack and the bayonetta player got punished because they tried to jump. If we see stuff like Fsmash almost killing from almost center stage why put yourself on the ledge where you can die relatively early or at tipper range. Tech in place WT would have be the best option in my opinion.

 

[DarkDeity15]

We might have maintenance the day before the DLC release and that's when things will get data mined. Besides, I already know what is fast and what isn't after 2 months of re-watching Corrin's trailer. I'm more interested in the FAF and IASA frames since that's hard to gauge from a video.

Would it really hurt to just post the thread with a disclaimer? Jeez. Excuses all over the place.

 

[WarTubaFox]

It seems like overall Corrin has low endlag moves besides dash attack and the counter. It's also hard to tell from the little footage we've seen

 

[ARGHETH]

Would it really hurt to just post the thread with a disclaimer? Jeez.

A disclaimer saying ... what, exactly? That stuff hasn't been data mined yet?

 

[DarkDeity15]

A disclaimer saying ... what, exactly? That stuff hasn't been data mined yet?

Click on the link Zult provided. He says that the data might be changed, so then it would be obvious to just add a disclaimer saying that the data may or may not be changed upon Corrin's release.

 

[False Sense]

Click on the link Zult provided.

Save it for when we have precise data.

This Moveset thread is serviceable till then.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Save it for when we have precise data.

This Moveset thread is serviceable till then.

I'm just saying that it would be better for people to know sooner rather than later. If almost nothing has been changed upon release, then you'll just look bad. But fine, whatever. These boards just aren't the type to be on top of things it would seem. I'll post again when these boards gain some real sense and structure.

 

[Zionaze]

Speed really isn't that bad... this is @1:50 in demonstration after jabs

I feel like jab might kill too near the sides if it sends bayo that far at 110%

 

[Raziek]

I'm just saying that it would be better for people to know sooner rather than later. If almost nothing has been changed upon release, then you'll just look bad. But fine, whatever. These boards just aren't the type to be on top of things it would seem. I'll post again when these boards gain some real sense and structure.

Shut it dude, you're just making yourself look like a goon.

They gave you a perfectly reasonable answer.

Incomplete and uncertain data does not warrant its own thread.

 

[Merfect]

I just thought of something. Would it be faster for Corrin to travel across the stage with momentum from Bair rather than running?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Shut it dude, you're just making yourself look like a goon.

They gave you a perfectly reasonable answer.

Incomplete and uncertain data does not warrant its own thread.

Link mains tend to be goons, yeah. I already said I'd wait for Corrin's release, be it in a vague way lol. I know you guys will be glad to have me around at some point so it doesn't really matter. I'll be lurking every once and a while until there is more structure or when I can buy the shoe-less dragon person.

 

[ARGHETH]

I just thought of something. Would it be faster for Corrin to travel across the stage with momentum from Bair rather than running?

Probably not and it'll probably be a lot less safe anyways. It doesn't look like it gives enough momentum to do that, and anyways if you run you can at least shield at any point to block attacks. Using Bair...you can airdodge or jump if you aren't in the middle of the Bair animation, I guess.

 

[WispBae]

Okay, so I was asked by @sunfallSeraph to provide my comments on Corrin's available info. So I shall.

First, on movespeed. In what universe is what we have seen called SLOW?! You people are so spoiled, good lord! Sure, maybe if you are comparing Corrin's movespeed to Sheik, ZSS or Limit Cloud, then it looks slow. Ok. But she's not slow. She looks about average. And you know what? That's perfectly fine! She has TONS OF RANGE. Extra speed would most likely be excessive. If you look at the other sword wielders, speed is basically directly inverse to range. Roy and MK are fast as hell, but short range. Ike is a bit slower, but has extra range. The 'exception' to this is somewhat Cloud, who is fast, and has large range, but has a lot of start-up on many of his approach tools. Corrin's speed is just fine for the range she has.

Airspeed, fallspeed, jump height, jumpsquat all look very functional. Short hop is very close to the ground, and in the 1v1 video you see the Corrin player frequently making use of SH -> FF Uair, which has very little visible landing lag, and surprisingly great forward range. Uair looks reeeeally good. Similarly, we also see what looks like FH Fair -> Falling Nair. Nair looks to have very little landing lag and great range.

Talking about other moves.....

Jab looks great. Gentleman variant looks pretty consistent, and the rapid bite is so gigantic that I don't think there will be any worries about people falling out of it. Solid range on the initial strike, and fast.

F-tilt. Why are people saying this move is bad, wtf? Robin makes functional use of her's, and it has half the range, does less damage, and she's got a slower run speed to pivot it with! That move is going to be a fantastic ground spacer and I won't be told otherwise. There's barely any lag on it.

There is no universe in which you can convince me that is a bad move.

D-tilt looks great as well. As was pointed out, appears to have very low KBG, showing a string into Uair at 80%. Very solid ground combo starter. Great range once again.

U-tilt I am unsure on. Hitbox looks great vertically, and pretty active, but seems somewhat narrow horizontally. Will take some playing with to see how effective it is as an actually functional anti-air.

F-Smash is better than I expected. Figured it would have some apparent drawback due to the range, but based on when we saw it kill in the trailer, Pivot F-Smash will be reeeeeally good.

U-Smash looks as fast as I was hoping, but we didn't actually see it connect. Jury remains out. Same with D-Smash.

Uair looks like a better Marth Uair in every possible way. A+

Bair has the autocancel I prayed it would, so that move is going to be SUPER useful.

Dair looks surprisingly good. Start-up looks low enough that I wouldn't really call it reactable, and it's not so laggy that you can HARD punish it even if blocked.

Fair looks like it might be the god move. That move looks like it has no landing lag, and the range is NUTS. It's like Brawl marth Fair on roids.

Nair looks really useful as a spacing tool (huge range, low landing lag), but it didn't look like it did very much damage or necessarily connected reliably. Will take some playing with.

DFS is about what I expected. Not going to get an amazing follow-up at long range, but it charges very fast and has solid stun at close range. Can definitely get good payoff with it with the right read. I also saw the JP player B-reverse it while landing, so that's going to be a solid defensive mixup.

Dragon Lunge. This move looks a lot better than I thought. The direct trailer made it look like it had a ton of start-up, but evidently not if used from the air. This will be great for landing mixups, cannot wait to lab applications. False Sense was 100% correct to note this interaction:

Being able to use that out of a pivot and bail on a kick-away if needed... really good.

Dragon's Ascent I was HOPING didn't send Corrin into helpless, but alas, it does. Still looks more than functional as a recovery. Great distance, a hitbox that reaches above the ledge, and it auto-snaps. Check, check, check.

Dragon Surge is what I expected. Probably going to be the best counter because it kills vertically? Probably? (Unless you count Ryu's Focus Attack as a 'counter-type' move.)


Throw game looks like it could potentially be a bit spotty, but if D-throw kills (it looks like it has good knock-back) then we're in business, nothing else really matters at that point.

I am very excited for this character. Has all the makings of a strong sword character.

Excellent Analysis. But you didn't cover the most important parts...

First victory pose looking very good. Very badass, classic dragon roar, lasts a good while and is intimidating enough when your opponent is thinking about whether to switch characters or not. Good standing pose as well, very confident, I'm thinking this will be the BnB for victory poses, the one you'll want to get most often.

Second victory pose worries me much more. "That went well"? C'mon, you're part dragon, don't act like a lil wuss! If anything you should have a head on your sword and say something like "You don't mess with a dragon!". If you're gonna place your sword into the ground as well, put it with more force and deeper. Looking like you don't wanna mess up Momma's good floor, just tapping the ground like that. Not to mention that finishing pose, like a reject backstreet boy. Luckily this was the male alt, so I'm hoping the female alt will be a lil more badass.

The jury is still out for the taunt game, though with victory poses like this, I wouldn't hold my breath...

 

[Merfect]

Probably not and it'll probably be a lot less safe anyways. It doesn't look like it gives enough momentum to do that, and anyways if you run you can at least shield at any point to block attacks. Using Bair...you can airdodge or jump if you aren't in the middle of the Bair animation, I guess.

Hmm, maybe not if you look at it like that. But maybe we could use it to boost ourselves over certain projectiles like needles or ZSS's Paralyzer and go for a quick punish. Concidering how little lag Bair has. I think there could be certain applications for it in this way.

 

[LancerStaff]

Ye... Corrin won't be impressing you until she kills at 30 with tilts and has combo throws that start killing at 5 with an average frame data of 1

I'd be more impressed if the only frame of reference for safety wasn't a character with a f9 jab...

I haven't seen anything amazing yet. I don't see an easy way to kill, damage output isn't amazing, and grab combos are nonexistent. May have a kill throw, but again I don't see grabs coming easy. Relying on edgeguarding and tech chases won't get you very far.

 

[Raziek]

Who is LancerStaff and why does everyone seem to think impressing him is important?

All I've seen is a bunch of baseless pessimism.

 

[alguidrag]

Who is LancerStaff and why does everyone seem to think impressing him is important?

All I've seen is a bunch of baseless pessimism.

Because he is the only real pessimist here (at least he is saying that Corrin is worst than pit and forgot mentioning zelda every post), all other are seeing his flaws but his assets too, maybe he is here to put some balance with a high number of people saying good things we need at least one people trying to see all his flaws (law of world)

 

[False Sense]

Who is LancerStaff and why does everyone seem to think impressing him is important?

All I've seen is a bunch of baseless pessimism.

Mostly because this thread is in desperate need of moderation.

 

[LancerStaff]

Who is LancerStaff and why does everyone seem to think impressing him is important?

All I've seen is a bunch of baseless pessimism.

Probably because I've brought up a lot of good points in the previous weeks...

Okay smart guy, do you see any easy ways to kill with Corrin? If not, why do you think he will beyond blind hope?

 

[PK Gaming]

Because he is the only real pessimist here (at least he is saying that Corrin is worst than pit and forgot mentioning zelda every post), all other are seeing his flaws but his assets too, maybe he is here to put some balance with a high number of people saying good things we need at least one people trying to see all his flaws (law of world)

His pessimism is hilariously over the top and it basically amounts to concern trolling. If anyone brings up anything remotely positive about Corrin, you can bet your ass he'll dutifully deliver the good truth and explain to us that Corrin really ain't ****™

Which makes me feel all the more better about the character, considering how good is track record is.

 

[alguidrag]

Probably because I've brought up a lot of good points in the previous weeks...

Okay smart guy, do you see any easy ways to kill with Corrin? If not, why do you think he will beyond blind hope?

I see down-tilt to up-air that seems to kill at some point, and offstage dragon lunge, and a read to DFS bite, Fair to upair (since many tournament stages have low celling), a right timed counter, well thats more than i expected at first.

 

[IceAnt573]

Probably because I've brought up a lot of good points in the previous weeks...

Okay smart guy, do you see any easy ways to kill with Corrin? If not, why do you think he will beyond blind hope?

Well...I do think Raziek is a smart guy. He knows what to do with Robin than almost everybody else in North America.

 

[Raziek]

I'd be more impressed if the only frame of reference for safety wasn't a character with a f9 jab...

I haven't seen anything amazing yet. I don't see an easy way to kill, damage output isn't amazing, and grab combos are nonexistent. May have a kill throw, but again I don't see grabs coming easy. Relying on edgeguarding and tech chases won't get you very far.

Uair was shown to kill at reasonable percents. Bair was shown killing Meta-knight in the trailer. F-Smash killed Bayo mid-stage at like 90? Dragon Lunge's initial stab kills. DFS Bite has been shown to kill. Counter kills at like 100.

U-Smash, which we haven't seen connect yet, will probably kill.

Even if you go ahead and assume that Corrin has no kill throws (which I think is not necessarily a realistic assumption), that's more than enough. There are great characters who have even less reliable killing tools (Mario and Pikachu come to mind immediately).

Going even beyond that, you have put forth no evidence to suggest that Corrin won't be able to kill. And where are you coming up with this assertion that Corrin will have trouble getting grabs? If Fair is as safe as it looks, Empty Jump -> Fair or Grab can just as easily be as useful as it was to Brawl Marth.

I'm just seeing you being pessimistic for no real reason, is all.

Why is damage output not amazing? All her aerials except Fair were over 10%, IIRC. Tilts did solid damage, DL did like 15...

You're just saying things with no real backing and most importantly, you are assuming the worst in situations where exactly the opposite could be true.

(You assume that she has no throw combos. Assume she can't get grabs, assume she will have to rely on edge-guarding & tech-chasing, etc. There's no evidence to say it couldn't be exactly the opposite.)

 

[Brandybuck]

Excellent Analysis. But you didn't cover the most important parts...

First victory pose looking very good. Very badass, classic dragon roar, lasts a good while and is intimidating enough when your opponent is thinking about whether to switch characters or not. Good standing pose as well, very confident, I'm thinking this will be the BnB for victory poses, the one you'll want to get most often.

Second victory pose worries me much more. "That went well"? C'mon, you're part dragon, don't act like a lil wuss! If anything you should have a head on your sword and say something like "You don't mess with a dragon!". If you're gonna place your sword into the ground as well, put it with more force and deeper. Looking like you don't wanna mess up Momma's good floor, just tapping the ground like that. Not to mention that finishing pose, like a reject backstreet boy. Luckily this was the male alt, so I'm hoping the female alt will be a lil more badass.

The jury is still out for the taunt game, though with victory poses like this, I wouldn't hold my breath...

I don't know, I like the second victory pose. It's relaxed but still confident like you and the battle are just an afterthought not really worth his effort. I'm a sucker for easy confidence as much as badassery. The left arm is awfully stiff though

Anyway, I'm excited for Corrin. I expected much worse, even the dash attack is better than I'd hoped.

 

[Zionaze]

Excellent Analysis. But you didn't cover the most important parts...

First victory pose looking very good. Very badass, classic dragon roar, lasts a good while and is intimidating enough when your opponent is thinking about whether to switch characters or not. Good standing pose as well, very confident, I'm thinking this will be the BnB for victory poses, the one you'll want to get most often.

Second victory pose worries me much more. "That went well"? C'mon, you're part dragon, don't act like a lil wuss! If anything you should have a head on your sword and say something like "You don't mess with a dragon!". If you're gonna place your sword into the ground as well, put it with more force and deeper. Looking like you don't wanna mess up Momma's good floor, just tapping the ground like that. Not to mention that finishing pose, like a reject backstreet boy. Luckily this was the male alt, so I'm hoping the female alt will be a lil more badass.

The jury is still out for the taunt game, though with victory poses like this, I wouldn't hold my breath...

I have a japanese wii u so my 2nd victory pose will be buffed. Also i won't be hearing bayos awful voice when she gets hit :V