Wogrim
Smash Lord
I'll update tonight or tommorrow. I have all my video ambitions fulfilled for the time being =)
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Moves and Matchups Guide: Submissions Thread
- Thread starter Wogrim
- Start date
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Mr.Fakeman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 382
I'd have to agree with Doggalina that matchups for Captain Falcon are going to be really hard to decide, oh yes and may I point out that Captain Falcon does lack alot of range in his attack. He is an unfairly close player, so if you can get into your opponents defensivelly and then switching to a fast attack or combo etc. I believe that would be a useful attack pattern for Captain Falcon, also what I mean by Captain Falcon lacking range is that he holds no projectile attacks and has trouble (alot of trouble if you may recall) countering ranged opponents for example Marth, since Marth posseses a sword all his A moves will take some skill to counter especially with close ranged players. Sorry for not posting like Wogrim said, by the way I learn't alot from the guides. Thank you. 
Wogrim
Smash Lord
Attack patterns/playstyles isn't really a section in the guide. Yes we know he has no projectile and has trouble against ranged opponents. Glad you're learning stuff though, that's what it's for.I'd have to agree with Doggalina that matchups for Captain Falcon are going to be really hard to decide, oh yes and may I point out that Captain Falcon does lack alot of range in his attack. He is an unfairly close player, so if you can get into your opponents defensivelly and then switching to a fast attack or combo etc. I believe that would be a useful attack pattern for Captain Falcon, also what I mean by Captain Falcon lacking range is that he holds no projectile attacks and has trouble (alot of trouble if you may recall) countering ranged opponents for example Marth, since Marth posseses a sword all his A moves will take some skill to counter especially with close ranged players. Sorry for not posting like Wogrim said, by the way I learn't alot from the guides. Thank you.
TKD
Smash Lord
Double post. Sorry!
TKD
Smash Lord
Metaknight's the character I know most about. Here's some stage info on him for the complete Falcon guide that's in progress.
He does just a bit less well in Smashville and Final Destination. This is because in other stages, most characters have some trouble with trivial things, like tricky ledges and short trips to die sideways. Smashville's platform can somewhat help recovery. This advantage doesn't help MK because he never has trouble recovering anyways. These stages are also relatively big, making it just a bit more difficult for Metaknight to KO with downsmash, or an aerial shuttle loop, since his KO moves depend on how close his opponent is from a deathwall, more than how much damage they have.
These stages are convenient in a shallow way, what makes them good is that they get you through just a bit less trouble, while Metaknight isn't at a disadvantage in any stage because he's that good.
Stages to avoid against Metaknight, I know of one. Luigi's Mansion. Hands down the best stage for MK, no question. You should ban this against MK, if you don't have your own MK to ditto against him. Tornado does way too good there, he can refresh his KO moves by hitting pillars, and he has no trouble lasting until very high percentages because of the stage's many properties that facilitate longevity. Plus, his upthrow, if performed near the center of the stage, crashes into the TOP PLATFORM. Even from below. It doesn't KO too early, but it can, at very high percentages.
He does just a bit less well in Smashville and Final Destination. This is because in other stages, most characters have some trouble with trivial things, like tricky ledges and short trips to die sideways. Smashville's platform can somewhat help recovery. This advantage doesn't help MK because he never has trouble recovering anyways. These stages are also relatively big, making it just a bit more difficult for Metaknight to KO with downsmash, or an aerial shuttle loop, since his KO moves depend on how close his opponent is from a deathwall, more than how much damage they have.
These stages are convenient in a shallow way, what makes them good is that they get you through just a bit less trouble, while Metaknight isn't at a disadvantage in any stage because he's that good.
Stages to avoid against Metaknight, I know of one. Luigi's Mansion. Hands down the best stage for MK, no question. You should ban this against MK, if you don't have your own MK to ditto against him. Tornado does way too good there, he can refresh his KO moves by hitting pillars, and he has no trouble lasting until very high percentages because of the stage's many properties that facilitate longevity. Plus, his upthrow, if performed near the center of the stage, crashes into the TOP PLATFORM. Even from below. It doesn't KO too early, but it can, at very high percentages.
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
Peach
Difficulties
--Chaingrab
+This move easily builds up damage,so you should try to play safe when under 30%
Bad Stages
> Battlefield
-- Peach can easily juggle you in the air,and it gets hard to get back down with the platforms in the way
+ Try not to jump when your on the platforms
Mario
FLUDD
+Keep in mind that mario can angle his flood up,down,or neutral
Ike
exta info
If he uses his side-b recovery than try to force him to use it on you,it would be an easy kill.
Difficulties
--Chaingrab
+This move easily builds up damage,so you should try to play safe when under 30%
Bad Stages
> Battlefield
-- Peach can easily juggle you in the air,and it gets hard to get back down with the platforms in the way
+ Try not to jump when your on the platforms
Mario
FLUDD
+Keep in mind that mario can angle his flood up,down,or neutral
Ike
exta info
If he uses his side-b recovery than try to force him to use it on you,it would be an easy kill.
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
hmm i think this is right,its something like that
4.5 Kirby
Damage/Combos:
d-smash>utilt>utilt>u-smash
Edit-lol i was playing bweezy 2vs2 yeesturday
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoADaj20soI
++Edgeguarded his recovery
++Was being punished alot
4.5 Kirby
Damage/Combos:
d-smash>utilt>utilt>u-smash
Edit-lol i was playing bweezy 2vs2 yeesturday
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoADaj20soI
++Edgeguarded his recovery
++Was being punished alot
I can help you guys, for the Wolf match-up:
Wolf:
Difficulties
-- Bair Spam
+ Wolfs Wall of pain is his defensive fortress. Unless you outrange it, it's very hard to break through.
+ A well spaced bair spam can destroy many approaches
Solution: Beat it with a well timed uair. It's hard but it works if executed correctly. Wolf doesn't like his defense being cracked by CF.
-- Punishing Moves
+ Falcons biggest problems against Wolf. Some of Wolfs move have extremely little startup lag and can punish a lot of Falcons moves. His best punishers are Fsmash and Usmash
+ Good Wolfes use Fsmash and Usmash only for punishment (Fsmash for range and Usmash for DMG)
Solution: Avoid laggy moves, especially those with ending lags, they are very risky.
-- Reflector Counter
+ Wolf's Reflector has invincibility frames and good range. Thus it's a very good counter for many moves, especially those, that lack disjointed hitboxes
+ It has almost no startup lag but quite a long ending lag
Solution: Don't attack recklessly as Wolf will just stop your moves with Shine. Try to bait it out of him via Mindgames or empty SHs (to fake it out of him) and make use of it's ending lag
-- Blaster Spam
+ Many ppl believe, that Wolf uses it for camping but that's not true
+ It's mostly used to force you to approach or to cancel out a lot of moves - it has extremely high priority as well as a disjointed hitbox
Solution: Getting around it should be easy. Just stay close enough so he won't spam it
-- Dsmash
+ Has excellent horicantal Knockback and has almost no startup lag
+ Has a long ending lag, leaving Wolf open for punishment
Solution: Keeping your % low is a must here. Play very carefully, especially since he likes to counter you a lot
-- Weight
+ Wolf is moderately heavyand CF has troubles finishing his opponents off
Solution: Keep your smashes fresh until he has enough % or you'll have a hard time. Edgeguard him as long as he doesn't use forwardB, which spikes you
Combos, Kill Moves and Gimp Moves
Damage/Combos:
Wolf has no true combos. He can pressure your shield somewhat with SHnair -> Jab -> Jab -> (Jab cancel) -> Dtilt -> Dtilt. Otherwise he may try to juggle you with multiple uairs. Airdodge them.
Kill Moves:
Dsmash. A good Wolf will always keep it fresh, unless the opponent is really light
Fair. Works at high percentages but is more often used as a "regular attck" due to it's excellent properties
Utilt. Very high % only
Gimp Moves:
Dair. Spikes you...
Bair. An edgeguarding move
Blaster. Interrupts your recovery
Bad Stages
> Battlefield
-- Wolf can camp you out on the platforms
+ Move around a lot and try to land single hits, without being overly agrresive
> Smashville
-- Wolf's best stage. He can spam lasers, camp on the platform and bairs and has little recovery issues
+ Avoid it if you can. Otherwise you may want to knock him out on the sides via the moving platforms
> Yoshis Island
-- Another good stage for Wolf. Similar to Samshville, without a moving platform
+ Try to stagespike his UpB with your bair. Otherwise use the same tactics as on BF
Good Stages
> Lylat Cruise
-- Wolf's worst stage. The moving spaceship screws blaster and his recovery and bair spam is prevented by the low platforms
+ Use falcon kick a lot. Try to knock him off the stage - if the ship moves, he's almost dead
> Pokémon Colloseum
-- The lips on the edges can screw up Wolfs recovery. The stage changes constantly, disallowing many of Wolfs favourite strategies
+ Bair him under the stage if you can and adaot your strategy depending on the stage - sometimes Wof can't spam lasers, sometimes bair becomes useless.
Hope this helps...
Wolf:
Difficulties
-- Bair Spam
+ Wolfs Wall of pain is his defensive fortress. Unless you outrange it, it's very hard to break through.
+ A well spaced bair spam can destroy many approaches
Solution: Beat it with a well timed uair. It's hard but it works if executed correctly. Wolf doesn't like his defense being cracked by CF.
-- Punishing Moves
+ Falcons biggest problems against Wolf. Some of Wolfs move have extremely little startup lag and can punish a lot of Falcons moves. His best punishers are Fsmash and Usmash
+ Good Wolfes use Fsmash and Usmash only for punishment (Fsmash for range and Usmash for DMG)
Solution: Avoid laggy moves, especially those with ending lags, they are very risky.
-- Reflector Counter
+ Wolf's Reflector has invincibility frames and good range. Thus it's a very good counter for many moves, especially those, that lack disjointed hitboxes
+ It has almost no startup lag but quite a long ending lag
Solution: Don't attack recklessly as Wolf will just stop your moves with Shine. Try to bait it out of him via Mindgames or empty SHs (to fake it out of him) and make use of it's ending lag
-- Blaster Spam
+ Many ppl believe, that Wolf uses it for camping but that's not true
+ It's mostly used to force you to approach or to cancel out a lot of moves - it has extremely high priority as well as a disjointed hitbox
Solution: Getting around it should be easy. Just stay close enough so he won't spam it
-- Dsmash
+ Has excellent horicantal Knockback and has almost no startup lag
+ Has a long ending lag, leaving Wolf open for punishment
Solution: Keeping your % low is a must here. Play very carefully, especially since he likes to counter you a lot
-- Weight
+ Wolf is moderately heavyand CF has troubles finishing his opponents off
Solution: Keep your smashes fresh until he has enough % or you'll have a hard time. Edgeguard him as long as he doesn't use forwardB, which spikes you
Combos, Kill Moves and Gimp Moves
Damage/Combos:
Wolf has no true combos. He can pressure your shield somewhat with SHnair -> Jab -> Jab -> (Jab cancel) -> Dtilt -> Dtilt. Otherwise he may try to juggle you with multiple uairs. Airdodge them.
Kill Moves:
Dsmash. A good Wolf will always keep it fresh, unless the opponent is really light
Fair. Works at high percentages but is more often used as a "regular attck" due to it's excellent properties
Utilt. Very high % only
Gimp Moves:
Dair. Spikes you...
Bair. An edgeguarding move
Blaster. Interrupts your recovery
Bad Stages
> Battlefield
-- Wolf can camp you out on the platforms
+ Move around a lot and try to land single hits, without being overly agrresive
> Smashville
-- Wolf's best stage. He can spam lasers, camp on the platform and bairs and has little recovery issues
+ Avoid it if you can. Otherwise you may want to knock him out on the sides via the moving platforms
> Yoshis Island
-- Another good stage for Wolf. Similar to Samshville, without a moving platform
+ Try to stagespike his UpB with your bair. Otherwise use the same tactics as on BF
Good Stages
> Lylat Cruise
-- Wolf's worst stage. The moving spaceship screws blaster and his recovery and bair spam is prevented by the low platforms
+ Use falcon kick a lot. Try to knock him off the stage - if the ship moves, he's almost dead
> Pokémon Colloseum
-- The lips on the edges can screw up Wolfs recovery. The stage changes constantly, disallowing many of Wolfs favourite strategies
+ Bair him under the stage if you can and adaot your strategy depending on the stage - sometimes Wof can't spam lasers, sometimes bair becomes useless.
Hope this helps...
Falcos_feather
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2006
- Messages
- 103
this is the first time i visit the Falcon threads... And I must say it's very cozy in here ^^ it's so cute of you guys to main him and trying to get the best out of him =)
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
mario
-- Cape
+if mario is edgehogging dont try to grab him lika a dummy,he'll just do his cape stall
-- Cape
+if mario is edgehogging dont try to grab him lika a dummy,he'll just do his cape stall
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
How cute of you to come visit... Tea?
Grab... You mean Falcon dive?
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
yeah,thanks falcon dive
Majora_younglink
Smash Apprentice
Not to revive an old topic but I think matchups should begin to be discussed again, some of them I feel aren't as good as they could be said while others just seem to describe 1~2 things in the matchup. We should start a weekly discussion like most other chary boards have been having in my opinion. Plus there hasn't been any discussion on them for a while here.
RebazTalei
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 148
i dont know about you guys. but this needs a lot of change,
if you have a pretty Decent falcon, Toon Link is a pretty normal matchup, yes playing GOOD toon links
because Toon link floats after every Jab kind of attack, like the N-air Cancel, Double Jab's, and holding toon link close is always better, but NONE of his areal attacks can counter falcon's up air. so after a grab, you can down throw, and it depends on how fast you are. and just u-air twice, depends if he does not air-dodge, its air dodge can be punish'd in many ways, after makin an Full hop and up-air. after the airdodge, you can N-air cancel, and get back too where you started from.
as for Falco, he is one of the worst matchups you can have, if you have an oponent, who likes to laser spam, thats pretty ****ed. because falcon needs perfect timing on alot of things, and one simple laser can kill it.
marth is not a nightmare matchup either, marths that have spacing can be a pain in the ***.
but when a marth is offensive, there are plenty ways too punish, marth's main move is F-air too F-air, right? after the second f-air you can already Shield grab and punish him for it, but that is just basic, soon or later i'l have some vids up against a pretty Good Marth, izaw's marth, his marth is madness though.
i am bad at these things, but i think i'l be a little bit more active in this section.
if you have a pretty Decent falcon, Toon Link is a pretty normal matchup, yes playing GOOD toon links
because Toon link floats after every Jab kind of attack, like the N-air Cancel, Double Jab's, and holding toon link close is always better, but NONE of his areal attacks can counter falcon's up air. so after a grab, you can down throw, and it depends on how fast you are. and just u-air twice, depends if he does not air-dodge, its air dodge can be punish'd in many ways, after makin an Full hop and up-air. after the airdodge, you can N-air cancel, and get back too where you started from.
as for Falco, he is one of the worst matchups you can have, if you have an oponent, who likes to laser spam, thats pretty ****ed. because falcon needs perfect timing on alot of things, and one simple laser can kill it.
marth is not a nightmare matchup either, marths that have spacing can be a pain in the ***.
but when a marth is offensive, there are plenty ways too punish, marth's main move is F-air too F-air, right? after the second f-air you can already Shield grab and punish him for it, but that is just basic, soon or later i'l have some vids up against a pretty Good Marth, izaw's marth, his marth is madness though.
i am bad at these things, but i think i'l be a little bit more active in this section.
TofuToph
Smash Journeyman
I wouldn't recommend hitting someone whilst grabbing them with falcon (I mean kneeing them, tapping A...you get me) at any percent lower than 30 because if you're playing a competent player they'll be able to shake out...his knees are pretty slow and you'll be lucky to get one off!
TofuToph
Smash Journeyman
But I feel like Marth kills a lot of Falcon's pseudo-combos with his instant fAirs. For instance if you try to follow a down throw by a quick flash kick (or two) he can always get is fAir out before you!!! That in itself is really annoying, except it's very possible to dash grab him after you block/spot-dodge a forward smash because of Marth's lag. And as we all know...marth only uses fAir, fSmash and fB. Haha. (sarcasm at the end. I know dTilt and uB are often used)
Falco is a really nasty matchup, but if you know how to counter (I think it's really called perfect shielding/what use to be REFLECTING in melee) then Falco's lasers aren't much of a problem because I often find myself slowly approaching the falco while I hear *ting...ting...ting...ting*. However, his chain grab -> ledge grab at low percents = Falcon is dead, no matter how spread his wings may be : ( . Also, Falco's lack of delay from most of his aerials makes it really annoying to try and punish him, which is a lot of what Falcon does from my experience. Not to mention his jabs beat most peoples, including Falcon's. (yes I know that jabs collide and you slide backwards but Falco always just starts slapping the **** out of my jabs and it pisses me off! )
A bonus against Falco is that the knee at the ledge at 40% will kill him if grab the ledge form his fB (at FD I mean).
By the way Rebaz I saw your Falcon 'combo' video and it was really tight!!! Respect to anyone spreading the word about Falcon.
At some point I'll make this post easier to follow and clarify the points I'm trying to make haha.
--- I noticed when playing BrawlBro's (a really really good diddy) diddy that you can short hop over the end of Diddy's dash attack and punish him with a knee. This is very useful for when diddys are dashing to pick up a banana, and Diddy can be hard to punish so I thought I'd share that with you guys if it helps at all.
Wogrim
Smash Lord
Yeah I know the info is old, but I'm not likely to update it any more since it's a lot of work that I don't really have the time for anymore. Save your opinions for the weekly matchup discussion thread.
TofuToph
Smash Journeyman
Aww, Falcon now has even less love haha. Alright then, thread over?!
Wogrim
Smash Lord
I wouldn't mind it being unstickied, but I don't want it locked because I might pick it up again eventually.
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