I really only use it after jabs or for edge guarding mindgames... it's good a surprise/finisher but not to use too frequently, imo.
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Move Set Discussion - MOVE OF THE DAY = Dair
- Thread starter 3GOD
- Start date
honestluigi
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 8
Do Wario's forward smash next please!
I think we will start with the smaller moves and move up to moves like the Waft and Fsmash.
Ftilt is an interesting move for me. I don't use it too much but it can catch people off guard after a dthrow or after a SH Airdodge. I like how you can angle it slightly to change trajectory but other than that, I don't like very much about it (besides the range.)
Ryan-K
Smash Master
The start up does throw people off. It also has a decieving hitbox, both vertically and horizontally. It can people slightly in front of and right above where the fist hits, well the straight one anyway. I use it often enough but the range is the best part. If it was faster it would be amazing though.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
Sadly ftilt is pretty much all Wario's got in terms of range. It's a decent move I suppose, has alright knockback so it can be a kill move at higher percentages. It's great after missing the last hit of a boost smash (by the time the attack starts up they are right in your range for a ftilt). Decent move overall...
handsockpuppet
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,438
I like it, and use it sometimes. I don't normally angle it, though, because the C-stick doesn't angle. it has good range, power, knockback, and has little ending lag. if you don't use it, you should start fitting it in. after all, without mindgames, Wario is useless.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
You have Cstick set to tilts? That's interesting.
handsockpuppet
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,438
It's extremely useful for Wario. it makes the Ftilt, Utilt, Downtilt, jab, and Nair so much easier. for Fsmash, I just do forward and A. because it's set to tilts, I can also do the Nair by tilting the C-stick sideways. I do the jab by tilting the C-stick backwards. try it, you won't regret it.
Blue sHell
Smash Journeyman
Ftilt:
Ftilt is absolutely great for Wario's ground game and fits perfectly into his moveset. It's practically one of Wario's only moves with startup lag and that in itself makes it a mindgame MACHINE. I LOVE tricking people with ftilt. Because Wario is always so extremely in your face the whole battle, when your in range for a ftilt people assume that you will approach with a fast aerial as your next approach, but instead if you throw out the ftilt they psyche themselves out because of its speed. They might spotdodge and get hit by it still, if they dodge behind you you have time to fsmash, and if they try to use a keep away move they will still possibly get hit by it.
Empty SH or airdodge ftilt is also very very nice. You guys have probably seen me doing it in a vid or two and really it's just funny how often it tricks people. Also, against faster characters there is a clever strat I use sparingly just to throw in another mindgame. If you consistantly use ftilts while in place your opponent will hopefully be a little hesistant to approach you with a SH or a running ground attack, but obviously because of the startup they could time an attack in between and usually they do try, BUT, if you predict when they will approach correctly you could switch it up into a quick fsmash to their face.
Plus it stops metas nado.
Overall though using the ftilt even at all is just personal prefrence, just like all of Wario's tilts(I personally never ever use Uptilt and probably use dtilt like once every 6 matches for some situations).
EDIT: just realized I missed Upsmash day. sucks, I would of liked writting about it. also missed upb day but I probably would of wrote like three sentences about it anyhow.
Ftilt is absolutely great for Wario's ground game and fits perfectly into his moveset. It's practically one of Wario's only moves with startup lag and that in itself makes it a mindgame MACHINE. I LOVE tricking people with ftilt. Because Wario is always so extremely in your face the whole battle, when your in range for a ftilt people assume that you will approach with a fast aerial as your next approach, but instead if you throw out the ftilt they psyche themselves out because of its speed. They might spotdodge and get hit by it still, if they dodge behind you you have time to fsmash, and if they try to use a keep away move they will still possibly get hit by it.
Empty SH or airdodge ftilt is also very very nice. You guys have probably seen me doing it in a vid or two and really it's just funny how often it tricks people. Also, against faster characters there is a clever strat I use sparingly just to throw in another mindgame. If you consistantly use ftilts while in place your opponent will hopefully be a little hesistant to approach you with a SH or a running ground attack, but obviously because of the startup they could time an attack in between and usually they do try, BUT, if you predict when they will approach correctly you could switch it up into a quick fsmash to their face.
Plus it stops metas nado.
Overall though using the ftilt even at all is just personal prefrence, just like all of Wario's tilts(I personally never ever use Uptilt and probably use dtilt like once every 6 matches for some situations).
EDIT: just realized I missed Upsmash day. sucks, I would of liked writting about it. also missed upb day but I probably would of wrote like three sentences about it anyhow.
cyclops4ever
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2007
- Messages
- 162
the uptilt ladies and gentlemen is one of his greatest moves. better than the forward smash in alot of ways. better knockback and smoothly comes after any air move. love it...love it love...great range compared to his others. and you can rock paper wario with sonic's fward smash. lol and when down tilt day comes...omg yes. omg yes.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
I assume you mean ftilt? And I really don't think it has more knockback than the forward smash unless you spam it (by it I mean the fsmash).
one more thing, c stick makes neutrals in the air more ez??? not at all, if u play with any controller , im sure alot of the pros slide there thumb from x to a whiel there control stick is neutral then continuing there motion after that is complete.
3GOD
Smash Ace
Chomp (Neutral B):
Maximum Damage: ???
Grab Frames: Frame 8 through Frame 73
Knockback: KO’s Mario at ~330% (at the center of FD with no DI)
Not really much data to be collected on the Chomp (aka Bite) since it's such a unique move. You can inflict more damage by pressing B (or A as I prefer) repeatedly, and the higher the damage of your opponent, the longer you can hold them in your mouth and chomp away. If you want the exact % for KO of Mario (not in training mode -the %'s are a little different), go ahead and figure it out - it's something around 330%, so obviously this is not a KO move!
However, that little bit of data about "Grab Frames" is HUGE for Wario. Basically, think of the Chomp as a grab that can be used from the air and lasts for a full second if you want. This is amazing against shield campers, and also seems to frustrate people who like to dash attack a lot (since they dash attack right into your open mouth).
Some key things to keep in mind about the Chomp:
1) It can be used from the air! Make sure you take advantage of this! If you know your opponent is going to shield your aerial approach, you can just get right on top of them, release the control stick, and hit B to start chomping away. I also love to do aerial crossovers (get behind the opponent), and chomp them from behind. Also, jump and grab opponents on platforms with the Chomp!
2) It lasts for a freakin' second plus some! People cannot shield this move, and they cannot spot dodge this move. If someone loves to spot dodge your aerial approaches, you can throw in the Chomp to catch them once their dodge finishes.
3) It will stop MANY attacks! Sonic is an easy match up in large part because of this one move. Basically all of his attacks can be eaten by the Chomp. While it's most obvious with Sonic, there are many attacks for many characters that will "trade hits" with the Chomp. You'll have to experiment to see what moves can be eaten, but mostly it will be jabs, tilts, smashes and dash attacks.
Chomp also can be used in some low % combos like Dair --> Chomp --> Boost Smash, but many of these are not true combos (like most in Brawl). Mostly I like to use it to frustrate people who shield camp. If you can cause some mental breakdowns with this move, it will most definitely help you 3 stock instead of 2 stock your opponents!
One final comment - Wariocides are fun in friendlies, but they do not work against even a recently dead corpse. Translation: Wariocides are WAY too easy to mash out of - don't use them.
Maximum Damage: ???
Grab Frames: Frame 8 through Frame 73
Knockback: KO’s Mario at ~330% (at the center of FD with no DI)
Not really much data to be collected on the Chomp (aka Bite) since it's such a unique move. You can inflict more damage by pressing B (or A as I prefer) repeatedly, and the higher the damage of your opponent, the longer you can hold them in your mouth and chomp away. If you want the exact % for KO of Mario (not in training mode -the %'s are a little different), go ahead and figure it out - it's something around 330%, so obviously this is not a KO move!
However, that little bit of data about "Grab Frames" is HUGE for Wario. Basically, think of the Chomp as a grab that can be used from the air and lasts for a full second if you want. This is amazing against shield campers, and also seems to frustrate people who like to dash attack a lot (since they dash attack right into your open mouth).
Some key things to keep in mind about the Chomp:
1) It can be used from the air! Make sure you take advantage of this! If you know your opponent is going to shield your aerial approach, you can just get right on top of them, release the control stick, and hit B to start chomping away. I also love to do aerial crossovers (get behind the opponent), and chomp them from behind. Also, jump and grab opponents on platforms with the Chomp!
2) It lasts for a freakin' second plus some! People cannot shield this move, and they cannot spot dodge this move. If someone loves to spot dodge your aerial approaches, you can throw in the Chomp to catch them once their dodge finishes.
3) It will stop MANY attacks! Sonic is an easy match up in large part because of this one move. Basically all of his attacks can be eaten by the Chomp. While it's most obvious with Sonic, there are many attacks for many characters that will "trade hits" with the Chomp. You'll have to experiment to see what moves can be eaten, but mostly it will be jabs, tilts, smashes and dash attacks.
Chomp also can be used in some low % combos like Dair --> Chomp --> Boost Smash, but many of these are not true combos (like most in Brawl). Mostly I like to use it to frustrate people who shield camp. If you can cause some mental breakdowns with this move, it will most definitely help you 3 stock instead of 2 stock your opponents!
One final comment - Wariocides are fun in friendlies, but they do not work against even a recently dead corpse. Translation: Wariocides are WAY too easy to mash out of - don't use them.
Popertop
Smash Champion
About the wariocide: If you're hanging on the ledge and you lure your opponent in somehow, you can LH bite and throw them into the ledge for a stage spike on most characters. A few like Meta can still survive, and if you are able to pull it off they might learn the tech time, but still a valid mindgame.
And as we know, Wario is all about the mindgames.
And as we know, Wario is all about the mindgames.
honestluigi
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2008
- Messages
- 8
Is Wario's ftilt really stronger than his fsmash?
No, it is weaker in damage and knockback. However, if Fsmash has been used a lot and it diminishes, then Ftilt can be stronger knockback wise.
I LOVE Wario's Chomp, this move is unlike anything else out there in Brawl. Wario's is an aerial beast and having a move that can grab IN THE AIR just compliments him so well. It helps his ability to pressure shielding opponents and it just strikes me as a defining move for Wario, along with his Waft and Bike.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
The Chomp (I prefer to call it the Bite) is my second favorite move in the game, beaten only by the Waft. It is a lot like a grab, except with a few different properties:
• It can be used while in the air.
• It always throws forward.
• It can be held out for a very long time.
• It can interrupt certain attacks, and it can eat certain projectiles.
The Bite is an extremely versatile move, and it is a very important part of his game. Noob Wario users often have trouble implementing it into their game. I'll give you all of the ways I use it:
• For comboing. Dair leads right into Bite at lower percentages, which leads right into Bike or a Boost Smash. Bite is great for comboing especially since Wario has the above to options to follow up very quickly. See the Wario Combo Thread link in my signature for more bite-related combos.
• To avoid getting punished. Since Bite interrupts a lot of moves, it is good to use in a tight situation to avoid getting punished. For example, if your opponent airdodges/spotdodges a dair or some other aerial, you can just press the B button and most of the time you will get them right as they are coming out of their dodge.
• For mindgames. This kind of goes along with the second way to use Bite. Bite is a great move to use mindgames with. Using it randomly actually works for me a lot of the time, especially against fast characters. Another way I like to use it in mindgames is to just start charging up an fsmash when away from the opponent. You know how it is. Your opponent will generally wait right outside the range of the fsmash and then try to run in and punish right after you use it. Just unleash the fsmash and use Bite, it WILL GET opponents that you haven't played that much.
• Gimping. The Bite is a good gimping move in the fact that it interrupts a lot of recoveries. I think that this move in itself makes the Luigi match-up a good bit easier. When they are charging up the Green Missile, just hold out Bite while standing on the edge. They will fly right into Wario's mouth most of the time, and you can throw them back out there, generally too low vertically to use Green Missile again. The only way i've found so far that they can avoid this is to purposely aim the Green Missile short of the ledge, and then Tornado - Up-B. However, during the post-green missile lag you can just jump off the stage and Bite them while they are about to use their Down-B. Throw them out and Waft/Bike back up to the stage. You can do this kind of stuff to many characters, and it works well. Try it out.
• Throw opponent of stage + Jump off + Bite + Rapidly press Down-B + Waft back up to the stage and grab ledge = Wariocide and a stock up.
That's all I've got, i'm interested to see what Blue sHell has on the subject of Bite.
• It can be used while in the air.
• It always throws forward.
• It can be held out for a very long time.
• It can interrupt certain attacks, and it can eat certain projectiles.
The Bite is an extremely versatile move, and it is a very important part of his game. Noob Wario users often have trouble implementing it into their game. I'll give you all of the ways I use it:
• For comboing. Dair leads right into Bite at lower percentages, which leads right into Bike or a Boost Smash. Bite is great for comboing especially since Wario has the above to options to follow up very quickly. See the Wario Combo Thread link in my signature for more bite-related combos.
• To avoid getting punished. Since Bite interrupts a lot of moves, it is good to use in a tight situation to avoid getting punished. For example, if your opponent airdodges/spotdodges a dair or some other aerial, you can just press the B button and most of the time you will get them right as they are coming out of their dodge.
• For mindgames. This kind of goes along with the second way to use Bite. Bite is a great move to use mindgames with. Using it randomly actually works for me a lot of the time, especially against fast characters. Another way I like to use it in mindgames is to just start charging up an fsmash when away from the opponent. You know how it is. Your opponent will generally wait right outside the range of the fsmash and then try to run in and punish right after you use it. Just unleash the fsmash and use Bite, it WILL GET opponents that you haven't played that much.
• Gimping. The Bite is a good gimping move in the fact that it interrupts a lot of recoveries. I think that this move in itself makes the Luigi match-up a good bit easier. When they are charging up the Green Missile, just hold out Bite while standing on the edge. They will fly right into Wario's mouth most of the time, and you can throw them back out there, generally too low vertically to use Green Missile again. The only way i've found so far that they can avoid this is to purposely aim the Green Missile short of the ledge, and then Tornado - Up-B. However, during the post-green missile lag you can just jump off the stage and Bite them while they are about to use their Down-B. Throw them out and Waft/Bike back up to the stage. You can do this kind of stuff to many characters, and it works well. Try it out.
• Throw opponent of stage + Jump off + Bite + Rapidly press Down-B + Waft back up to the stage and grab ledge = Wariocide and a stock up.
That's all I've got, i'm interested to see what Blue sHell has on the subject of Bite.
3GOD
Smash Ace
I completely forgot to even mention it's gimping abilities. It's particular awesome against Snake, but it can be difficult to actually land since Snake players usually recovery very high away from the stage. Regardless, gimping it just one more thing about this move that demonstrates its versatility.
Also, I used to consider Bite/Chomp my favorite move, but since I've begun using 3/4 charged Waft more, I have to say it's taken my top spot. Wario is fat because he's full of legend!
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
I use Chomp as an alternative to grabbing opponents. You can rack up damage to your foe and spit him/her out. Plus unlike actual grabs, the foe can't get free unscathed. The only flaw with this move however, is that you can get pushed off a ledge and to your demise (along with the victim).
Please focus your attention to the Bold, Red words. When, if ever, in a one vs one match, will Wario be pushed off the ledge while he is chomping someone? I assume you mean that someone can come behind Wario while he is chomping another opponent and push Wario and the other guy off. If so, then who cares? If I'm fighting one opponent, I'm not gonna worry about Casper the friendly ghost pushing me off somehow.
Sans wrote a pretty in depth review of the Chomp, so props to you. I too am curious about what Blue sHell would say about this move.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Yeah that's mainly an issue for stages with environmental hazards (such as Green Greens) and multi-man matches, but I just wanted to pull that information out.Please focus your attention to the Bold, Red words. When, if ever, in a one vs one match, will Wario be pushed off the ledge while he is chomping someone? I assume you mean that someone can come behind Wario while he is chomping another opponent and push Wario and the other guy off. If so, then who cares? If I'm fighting one opponent, I'm not gonna worry about Casper the friendly ghost pushing me off somehow.
Sans wrote a pretty in depth review of the Chomp, so props to you. I too am curious about what Blue sHell would say about this move.
I forgot about Green Green, that is a valid point. But yeah, very situational.
Can we discuss Dtilt next maybe?
I say that we do Dtilt as the last move, just to spite Dr. Mario Guy 
MIKE TYSON in the house with a chomp!!!! boxer for sure but ya, everyhing u guys have mentioned i wil agree with BUT!!! the wariocide, it doesnt matter if ur opponent survives a wariocide cus most likely, u can too, and if u cant u did soemthing wrong, BUT once again wariocide even if survived just keeps pressure on ur opponent if u kno u can save urself, dont stop yourself from attempting it.
but ya, everyhing u guys have mentioned i wil agree with BUT!!! the wariocide, it doesnt matter if ur opponent survives a wariocide cus most likely, u can too, and if u cant u did soemthing wrong, BUT once again wariocide even if survived just keeps pressure on ur opponent if u kno u can save urself, dont stop yourself from attempting it.
Popertop
Smash Champion
you don't even need to 'cide to pull it off.
You can throw them right out of the bite right?
So you could throw them into the stage?
And if you're facing the other way like someone else said you could waft out of it, killing them and recovering at the same time.
brilliant.
You can throw them right out of the bite right?
So you could throw them into the stage?
And if you're facing the other way like someone else said you could waft out of it, killing them and recovering at the same time.
brilliant.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
Of course you don't need the cide to pull it off...The whole idea is getting a stock ahead, though I don't know why people call it "Wariocide" when you don't even die.
I'm not 100 percent sure on this... but generally when you attempt a Wariocide, you go too far under the ledge to spike them... and even if you were to throw them into the stage... I don't think the knockback on the bite is all that stellar, so I'm not sure if it would be able to ledgespike effectively.
I find that attempting to use the chomp in "cide" attempts is best when you are on a stage w/ a lip and the opponent has a limited recovery.
I find that attempting to use the chomp in "cide" attempts is best when you are on a stage w/ a lip and the opponent has a limited recovery.
3GOD
Smash Ace
You cannot control when he throws them out of his mouth exactly. If you chomp a lot with B or A, he will throw them a little faster I think. The main factor is the opponent mashing out as far as I can tell, so they control when they are released more than you do.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Great move tha tgives him more options. You can eat items and waddle dees which also makes it pretty good. This is one of his best moves imo. Good for set ups and for following up on dair or punishing shield camping.
Also maybe I missed it but I don't think you mentioned how the bite> ddd/kirby inhale.
If you bite while you are getting sucked in, you will grab them before they grab you. Works vs potential swallowcides and messes them up.
Also maybe I missed it but I don't think you mentioned how the bite> ddd/kirby inhale.
If you bite while you are getting sucked in, you will grab them before they grab you. Works vs potential swallowcides and messes them up.
cyclops4ever
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2007
- Messages
- 162
the chomp is the best move in his arsenal...oh yeah, good for mindgames, dmage, pressure...ahh what else do you need to win? next move please.
Popertop
Smash Champion
Even on stages without a lip, the angle at which it sends them down is delicious.
It gimps the hell out of Marth, but his recovery is poopoo anyway.
Moar research.
Also, I wasn't sure about being able to throw them on command, but maybe we could look into throw times at various percentages with various button mashing speeds?
NeonTigerX3
Smash Rookie
I've thrown someone out of a Bite into the side of Final Destination before. It was pretty much the best thing ever...it spikes them down pretty hard.
Also, it would seem like footstooling is an option if they make it out of the Bite on the way down on stages with no lip, like Yoshi's Island? I've seen it happen. /shrug
Also, it would seem like footstooling is an option if they make it out of the Bite on the way down on stages with no lip, like Yoshi's Island? I've seen it happen. /shrug
3GOD
Smash Ace
Uair:
Maximum Damage: 18%
First Attack Frame: Frame 8
Landing Lag: 9 Frames
Knockback: KO’s Mario at 113% (at the center of FD with no DI)
This move is awesome! It is great for combos and juggling, and if it's not stale, it's a great KO move. Falling/fast falling Uairs are good after a full jump Dair. Take a look at that damage - 18% when fresh! This is like an aerial smash attack! I typically don't worry about saving it for a KO since I know that I get a good Waft charge every minute or so (and still have Fsmash and Ftilt as fallbacks).
Here's a hint for auto fast falling certain aerials (Uair, Fair, and Bair; but Uair is most useful): if you are holding down on the control stick (you can do this even as Wario rises) and press the C-stick up after the peak of Wario's jump, he will auto fast fall the Uair. This way you can begin holding down on the control stick early and not have to time that part correctly. Then just do a Uair with the C-stick to auto fast fall after the peak of the jump.
Maximum Damage: 18%
First Attack Frame: Frame 8
Landing Lag: 9 Frames
Knockback: KO’s Mario at 113% (at the center of FD with no DI)
This move is awesome! It is great for combos and juggling, and if it's not stale, it's a great KO move. Falling/fast falling Uairs are good after a full jump Dair. Take a look at that damage - 18% when fresh! This is like an aerial smash attack! I typically don't worry about saving it for a KO since I know that I get a good Waft charge every minute or so (and still have Fsmash and Ftilt as fallbacks).
Here's a hint for auto fast falling certain aerials (Uair, Fair, and Bair; but Uair is most useful): if you are holding down on the control stick (you can do this even as Wario rises) and press the C-stick up after the peak of Wario's jump, he will auto fast fall the Uair. This way you can begin holding down on the control stick early and not have to time that part correctly. Then just do a Uair with the C-stick to auto fast fall after the peak of the jump.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
I thought Uair did 17%? Oh well. This is definitely one of Wario's best moves. With mindgames, you can use it to juggle opponents for a long amount of time, and at low percentages it combos very well. I usually keep it somewhat fresh since it is one of Wario's best KO moves. The clap's hitbox comse out really fast if you shorthop it and wait a second before using it, so you can mix it up by approaching with a delayed SH Uair (though I wouldn't do it very much).
Not much to discuss I don't think. Pretty self explanatory move.
Not much to discuss I don't think. Pretty self explanatory move.
3GOD
Smash Ace
Yeah I thought so too, but I've done 18% with it a few times. It might have a sweet spot or something.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
Alright. When this is done you should take all the information that you post every day about the move and then a couple things about what other people say about the move, and it could go in Blue sHell's guide or something.
Ruuku
Smash Lord
I like chasing my opponent off the stage with side B then go into Uair. Another good one is downB to Uair.
Sans Glutin
Smash Ace
That only works when you have a full waft and you are underneath your opponent though, but yeah.