Move Set Discussion - MOVE OF THE DAY = Dair

[Crooked Crow]

I love his grab range
it's pretty good

The d-throw sets them up for a lot of things and you can kill with it if they're really predictable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I never do grabs with Wario since Chomp tends to work like a grab most of the time. Plus, it's harder to make successful grabs in Brawl compared to Melee.

 

[Crooked Crow]

actually, i find it so much easier to grab and a lot less punishable compared to melee..

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Never grab? Why are you handicapping yourself!

It's extremely easy to grab, just press Z! No but seriously, just shieldgrab or dair into grab.

so my question is... everyone knows downthrow and forward throws' usefulness, but are back throw and upthrow ever worthwhile? Can they set up for any follow attacks?
- PLease respond only if u have good insight....

Sometimes I just bthrow or uthrow just to switch it up. If I grab someone near the edge and I'm facing away from the edge then I'll bthrow them off. Or if there's a platform above me, I'll uthrow them and try to make up something to do after that, usually uair.

 

[PhantomX]

I backthrow pretty often in games... upthrow I rarely find uses for... but I'll mix it in once in a while.

 

[cyclops4ever]

up throw is great. alot of good people panic in the air quick to dodge or flee. and upon landing most shield or roll. bite em. not 100 percent but not many people like the high ground. n back throw to back a works at times.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Never grab? Why are you handicapping yourself!

It's extremely easy to grab, just press Z! No but seriously, just shieldgrab or dair into grab.

I know that it's easy to grab, but pulling it off is a different story. Especially against skilled players and CPUs.

Anyway, depending on the character, the number of grabs that I do can vary. I've done more grabs with Donkey Kong and Dedede than with Mario and Fox. One reason is the grab range, while the other is based off smash attack usage (I do more smash attacks with Mario and Fox than with Donkey Kong and Dedede).

So far, I don't do grabs with Yoshi (Egg Lay), Bowser (Flying Slam), Ganondorf (Flame Choke), Wario (Chomp), and Lucario (Force Palm) since they do have moves that work similar to actual grabs and are usually easier to pull off.

 

[harpuia190]

usually i use the down throw due to it's chaingrabbish properties, and due to me being like the only wario in my state a lot of people don't expect it

 

[DMG]

I'm surprised his grab comes out at frame 6, it seems like it takes longer than that.

He has a pretty decent grab range and even though not every throw is that useful, his grab game is a lot better than some characters. Fthrow is also a great damage dealer. Even if I am facing the wrong way, I will Fthrow someone just to get the 13% from it.

 

[3GOD]

Fair:
Maximum Damage: 8%
First Attack Frame: Frame 5
Landing Lag: 16 Frames
Knockback: KO’s Mario at ~225% (at the center of FD with no DI)

Fair is a great aerial for off-stage chasing since it's quick and doesn't last quite as long as Nair. Also, it will auto cancel pretty easily from a SH, but I find Dair to be better generally on stage.

One mistake I found myself making early in Brawl was attempting to land Fairs on shielding opponents. If you can get close enough to land the Fair, you have better options like the Chomp/Bite. Fair has WAY too much landing lag to use in this way.

 

[Ryan-K]

Good poking and edgeguarding move, stays out for a decent amount of time, however has too much landing lag and isn't spectacular in any way aside from it being fairly quick.

 

[PhantomX]

Fair is particularly amazing vs people that love to spam non-explosive projectiles, as Wario's chubby feet will destroy most of them (while continuing forward, it's not like a clash/clang/whatever)... allowing you to approach through auraspheres, arrows, or whatever else. It's amazing for setting up gimps due to it's tiny knockback as well... but yeah, I STILL find myself fairing on shielding opponents rarely, it's a habit that's hard to get out of.

 

[DMG]

I've started using Fair less and less as I have progressed with Wario, but it is still great for lengthening aerial chains and it serves gimping purposes well. The least favorite part of it, to me, is the damage it does. 8% max is not very much considering Dair can do around double that. I have no problems with hitting shields as long as I don't get landing lag and can retreat it during mid move.

I am still amazed at how fast his moves come out. Like, I knew his nair and dtilt were pretty quick, but not THAT quick. Frame 3 for Nair? That's insane.

 

[Wario Nut]

I think Fair is good because it's quick and sets up alot of combos.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I use fair to quickly interrupt someone's attack after I've been hit or if I'm stunned.

It comes out really fast

 

[Wario Nut]

I use fair to quickly interrupt someone's attack after I've been hit or if I'm stunned.

It comes out really fast

Thats why it's really good.

 

[Blarfenzo]

Sometimes if someone is hanging on the edge, I jump to where they'd have to go regardless and Fair. It goes through most if not every get up from the edge and could mess with them.

 

[PUDGE]

I'm going to have to agree with the majority of you guys about using it less and less as people have gotten better, of course its a pretty good off stage edge guard but other than that its really not worth it unless you know you can guarantee a move after while trying to combo, a lot of people shield it and some people could even grab you with there ridiculous range

 

[danielreece2]

i usually sub a Fair with a neutral air, unless im saving the Nair for a Gimp, or if theres not time.
its a pretty good approch though, to SH Fair, and wobble around in the air randomly.

 

[White Pikmin]

fair doesnt have good knockback, but it deals lots of damage

not as much a uair, though

 

[PhantomX]

fair doesnt have good knockback, but it deals lots of damage

not as much a uair, though

Lolwut? No it doesn't.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The f-air is pretty lame as an aerial attack. Heck, despite being similar to Mario's n-air, Mario's can actually make KOs.

 

[Eszett]

I like comboing Fair into itself off the stage, but when I'm on the stage I prefer to just do strings of Dairs. I'll mix it up and throw a Fair in every so often.

 

[DMG]

The f-air is pretty lame as an aerial attack. Heck, despite being similar to Mario's n-air, Mario's can actually make KOs.

Don't get me started on Mario's Down B... Seriously, talk about a wasted space for an actual move.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Don't get me started on Mario's Down B... Seriously, talk about a wasted space for an actual move.

Did I say anything about F.L.U.D.D.? I don't think so.

 

[Blarfenzo]

Did I say anything about F.L.U.D.D.? I don't think so.

Nope but you called one of Wario's moves useless for not being able to KO, so he mentioned one of Mario's. Not all moves are suppose to KO, ever hear of damage building? And it's not really similar to Mario's Nair, it's a fast kick that you can string together or gimp easily with, while Mario's is a solid kick that stays out awhile and can interrupt moves easily or KO at high percentages. They are just similar in appearance, but they function completely different.

 

[Wario Nut]

Nope but you called one of Wario's moves useless for not being able to KO, so he mentioned one of Mario's. Not all moves are suppose to KO, ever hear of damage building? And it's not really similar to Mario's Nair, it's a fast kick that you can string together or gimp easily with, while Mario's is a solid kick that stays out awhile and can interrupt moves easily or KO at high percentages. They are just similar in appearance, but they function completely different.

I agree with Blarfenzo. Fair is good at damage building and you can keep your forward momentum allowing you a safe landing if you miss unlike Nair .

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Come to think of it, the only thing fair is useful for is gimping and setting up for stuff at early-mid percents on stage, or late percents off stage for edgegaurds. It isn't awful at all but sometimes its hard to place somewhere.. fullhop fair > something else is kinda useful, I usually FH Nair for pressure. If you think hard about placing it somewhere or how to set it up, this isn't the move for you. Its just suppose to be in there without thought.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

I mainly use the corkscrew only once per stock and it is a bit situational. It is possible for the opponent to DI when they are at mid and high percentages. So what i do sometimes when they are at 0 percent, I Dair into corkscrew. it works about 75% of the time for me. If done correctly it should do a quick and easy 25-30 damage.

 

[PUDGE]

people like ROB who have a ridiculous UPB its a completely useless attack when there off the stage and you are trying to guard, alls ROB is gonna do is Fair you back, he out-prioritizes warios Fair

 

[3GOD]

Waft (Down-B):

Maximum Damage: 42% (fully charged)

First Attack Frame:

Charge Level Zero (about 0:00 – 0:17): Trips on Frame 16 (no damage)
Charge Level One (about 0:17 – 0:57): Frame 10
Charge Level Two (about 0:57 – 1:50): Frame 5
Charge Level Three (Full Charge): Frame 9 (Super Armor Frames 5-10)​

Knockback:

Charge Time…..Mario KO% (at the center of FD with no DI)
0:56…..…..…..…..187 (Useless)
0:58…..…..…..…..98
1:00…..…..…..…..95
1:05…..…..…..…..92
1:10…..…..…..…..85
1:15…..…..…..…..81
1:20…..…..…..…..76
1:25…..…..…..…..72
1:30…..…..…..…..67
1:35…..…..…..…..62
1:40…..…..…..…..60
1:45…..…..…..…..55
1:50…..…..…..…..52
Full…..…..…..…..96
​

This move is AMAZING!

Seriously, it's Wario's best KO move. Look at the knockback of the Waft between 0:57 and Fully Charged (Charge Level Two). It has insane knockback and can be used in the air. Also, for Charage Level Two, it's unpredictable since Wario doesn't blink brown until the full charge is reached, and it's pretty fast at 5 frames during it's most potent charge level.

Seriously, think about this...an attack that can KO around 60-70% realistically and comes out in 5 frames! It's also pretty much guaranteed to be fresh (non-stale) since you only use it once every minute at most. You should always try to use it between 1:00 and 1:50 of charge since it's basically useless before 0:57 and not as potent when the full charge is reached (around 1:50).

If you don't manage to pull-off the Charge Level Two Waft, you can use the Fully Charged Waft for recovery (or level two for recovery if you need it). Also, the fully charged waft gets a few frames of super armor, which could help survive an edge guard attempt and counter attack the opponent in the process.

Basically, the waft is amazing (if you didn't catch the big bold letters above). Use it for KOs or for recovery if you need to. Learn to watch the timer and know when you're at charge level two.

One great way to land a level two waft is to jump at an aerial opponent and lure an airdodge. Then just waft them for the KO! Wah Wah Waaah!!

 

[Wario Nut]

You're absolutly right, it is awsome for attacking and recovery when its charged.No more needs to be said about this move.

 

[Ryan-K]

It also has a deciving hitbox. It hits way to wario's sides as he goes up as well as when he goes up. Although those hits aren't as strong they still kill at similar percents.

You pretty much covered it. Also I think the full waft has a stronger hit when wario himself hits them when he is flying up but it does less damage (28%)

Also full waft can kill yourself

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, full Waft has huge vertical knockback, at the expense of less damage.

This move is epic though... nothing better than farting on an opponent to kill them... and it's great for mindgames, comes out really fast, etc.

Also, for those of you that don't know, the waft > MK's glide attack

 

[PUDGE]

3god summed it up, new topic!!! lol jk <3

 

[Goochf1111]

so the waft should be discussed more (it deserves it!). OK first off, 1/2 waft and 3/4 waft come out ridiculously quick sometimes i jump into a player knowing i will get hit but my waft will come out quicker and we will trade hits, except they arent coming back and i am. waft has deceiving hitboxes above and below it. IF u are trying to gimp people waft is hugely important, as it will often hit people who think they are safe. Another reason it is so effective is its suprise factor; a move u can only do every 90 seconds is hard to track. Good players should not be confined to using in game clocks, as you should learn to "feel" the timing.

- U cant call urself a good wario unless u know waft in and out.

A good fart can make or break matches. I have won innumerable times because of wafts greatness. In one instance, a lucas had frozen me off the edge at 150% and began taunting (thinking the match was over), I broke out of the ice at the bottom corner of battlefield, biked up the edge and and ledge hopped 3/4th wafted in his taunting face to win. He was pissed, i was laughing.

As a side note, i never used a full waft unless i screw up and forget to waft at 1min to 1.5 min. Full waft is much more predictable, slower, and can get u in trouble off the top.

 

[Goochf1111]

PS- if i do forget, and am blinking with a full fart, i use it mainly for the 40% hit, rather than the knockback,.... which is usually harder to land, but worth it.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

The fart is awesome. I love it so much, I think it might be my favorite attack in the game.

My brother hates it. I guess getting killed by a fart every minute isn't nice.

Everything else's been covered

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Wario Waft is a common move that I use. Even now I've been trying to time the move right so that I can deliver a strong hit on foes.

 

[Blarfenzo]

I'd say something about it but you guys got it down, basically I guesstimate when it's just right(I'm almost always right) and use it to KO at low percents. If I can't get it in that way, use it to get an easy 42% on opponent. It's such a great move, who knew farting could be so useful?