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That's not what I said.
I said that prior to her appearing only in spin-offs, she barely has any material for a moveset as every character can do what she does there, it's not a question of rapresentation.
Oh, some people have ideas of a Super Mario Land moveset, mostly it involves her using the power ups in that game, some view it like how Rosalina uses the Lumas's abilities despite her not doing so at all in Galaxy, a poor excuse if you ask me. Another thing some say is that Rosalina dis not have any moveset potential at all, as she did not do anything consistent in neither Galaxy 1 and 2, again a poor biased excuse if you ask me.
Oh, some people have ideas of a Super Mario Land moveset, mostly it involves her using the power ups in that game, some view it like how Rosalina uses the Lumas's abilities despite her not doing so at all in Galaxy, a poor excuse if you ask me. Another thing some say is that Rosalina dis not have any moveset potential at all, as she did not do anything consistent in neither Galaxy 1 and 2, again a poor biased excuse if you ask me.
I think you still don't get what he says. He says that in a lot of games where Daisy appeared, there were other characters that could have the same abilities as her for Smash. Rosalina's powers are based on Galaxy (you know, where she does use her powers and where she does things relevant and consistent), and nobody except her could represent these abilities. Still, Mario and Luigi could have in some ways, but they were already in Smash with another moveset.
Rosalina consistently showed Cosmokinesis, Gravitokinesis and warping, all of wich got translated into all of her animations, included her idle stance, she used them even in some spin-offs, but that's another story.
Rosalina consistently showed Cosmokinesis, Gravitokinesis and warping, all of wich got translated into all of her animations, included her idle stance, she used them even in some spin-offs, but that's another story.
Let's just leave it on 'Nothing consistent before the spin offs', shall we? Don't wanna bore you or waste you time. The only other consistent thing she has done is crystal manipulation in Strikers Charged, but again as you've said, nothing before the spin-offs.
Let's just leave it on 'Nothing consistent before the spin offs', shall we? Don't wanna bore you or waste you time. The only other consistent thing she has done is crystal manipulation in Strikers Charged, but again as you've said, nothing before the spin-offs.
The 'holograms' are what transport the players to the field, if it was simulation, then it would have been at least shown in the opening, if I showed you a link to the OP of Daisy for Sm4sh thread would you read it? That page does a far better job at explaining questions that I would, but I also don't want to post it and see or hear that people aren't checking it out.
The 'holograms' are what transport the players to the field, if it was simulation, then it would have been at least shown in the opening, if I showed you a link to the OP of Daisy for Sm4sh thread would you read it? That page does a far better job at explaining questions that I would, but I also don't want to post it and see or hear that people aren't checking it out.
Hm.. I might go and take a look at this thread sometime.
Yeah, I seldom go to Reddit too. GameFaqs, only go there when I search gaming stuff on Google.
Hm.. I might go and take a look at this thread sometime.
Yeah, I seldom go to Reddit too. GameFaqs, only go there when I search gaming stuff on Google.
Hm.. I might go and take a look at this thread sometime.
Yeah, I seldom go to Reddit too. GameFaqs, only go there when I search gaming stuff on Google.
In fact I have read interesting discussions, then I saw: "Who has the best eating donut animation ?" (about MP10), I laughed and closed the page. Never touched it again.
IMO I don't really see a need for Daisy to be in Smash. She wouldn't really offer anything unique and even in Mario games she serves as an alternate female choice that isn't Peach, she never really comes into her own nor does she stand out. She stood out most in a SEGA game of all things, and even then, not by much. I mean, she was only ever created as a replacement for Peach in a game where Peach couldn't be used.
People go on about how she should have a sports based moveset, but sports isn't even that unique to her. Tons of Mario characters are playable in the sports games including all of the current Smash reps, and including Koopas and Boos and what not. Not to mention that Waluigi fans constantly say he should have a sports moveset, which kind of proves both characters are very generic and one-note.
I'd be fine with her being like Alph in that she's an alt for Peach, but I see no reason to go any further than that. I know she has her fans but I frankly think she's incredibly overrated and I think most of her fans only come from nostalgia (i.e. they were the younger sister in a pair of gaming sisters and the older sister always chose Peach, so the younger sister forced themselves to like Daisy a lot to better justify their character choice in their head). Luigi's popularity initially came from that too, but then Nintendo actually did stuff with him, like Luigi's Mansion and the RPGs and what not that really defined him as more than a one dimensional "player two" character, to the point where most people actually like him a lot more than Mario.
Don't interpret this as hate or anything, I'm just being blunt. She just isn't a character I care for, and that's frankly because there isn't really a reason to, the creators of these games have never really tried to make me care for her, so why should I? Fans can try to convince me all they want, but at the end of the day, I shouldn't need fan headcanons or interpretations and over-analysing and informed characterisation to appreciate the character, because the creators should be making me see the character's merits. And Daisy just barely has anything. I could say the same about Peach, but she's part of the original Super Mario cast and is Mario's love interest so she gets into Smash on that alone, and she HAS had some good, endearing portrayals that aren't completely one-dimensional (like in Super Paper Mario, where I actually quite like her), from time to time.
And no, I don't think "she completes the trio of Mario princesses!" and I don't think that's an excuse to add her. For one, Rosalina isn't a princess. But the other thing is, even forgetting that...why do people feel compelled to associate Rosalina with Peach and Daisy, as if they are the "Mario girl trio"? Rosalina and Daisy haven't had a single specific character interaction together. Peach and Rosalina have only had one (not counting the Super Mario-kun manga which is really obscure and completely it's own thing anyway). And literally all it is, is this:
Rosalina was reunited with Young Master Luma, and gives a little speech, and is also happy to see Mario, Peach, and Lubba again. Peach echoes Rosalina's sentiments, most likely referring to wanting to be reunited with Mario after being separated from him.
That's it, that's their only specific interaction across the entire Mario franchise. You can assume they are friendly with each other, but they have barely had any time to even get to know each other personally. Rosalina kinda just has an attachment to Mario's crew in general, most specifically Luigi, but not specifically Peach at all really. They just kinda have a mutual sentiment in this brief moment.
Granted, out of context, you'd probably think they are sisters or even lovers based on this exchange, but if you watch the full ending sequence to Galaxy 2, you'll see that they were not referring to exclusively each other, just kind of the general group, with Rosalina specifically seeking out Young Master Luma who wandered off in Galaxy 1 and ended up with Mario in Galaxy 2, and Mario specifically had been searching for Peach and Peach is obviously really happy to be reunited with him.
It's not like they are inseparable or something and have a ton of unique, shared quirks, like say, Sonic & Tails, who are basically "blood brothers", often described as having and shown to have an "unbreakable bond". Nor are they heated rivals, like Sonic & Knuckles, that are also pretty friendly with each other. They are acquaintances, and just so happen to show up in the same games as each other since they are a part of the same franchise.
Rosalina is her own character that is completely unaffiliated with Daisy, and is affiliated with Peach to a minor degree. So "completing the trio" is not an excuse for including Daisy. Rosalina isn't in Smash to be some supplementary character to Peach, she's her own thing entirely. There isn't a trio to be completed.
The Mario representation already has one rep that feels unnecessary (Dr. Mario). There is only one more Mario character I think deserves an addition, and I think that's Captain Toad - people have wanted Toad in the game since Melee because he's cute, but Toad was never really this unique character with unique themes or abilities, he was just another happy-go-lucky Mario character, that didn't even have any special abilities that other characters didn't have. So I understand why he was never added. But through Captain Toad, they've created a charming character out of a Toad, that has had his own unique personality since Galaxy, and now he even has his own game, so there is plenty to work with ability wise that isn't reaching.
But ''Daisy couldn't have a unique moveset'' is a bulllcrap argument , it is for ANY Character.
I think this was pretty clear ever since the first game.
Peach who is not a fighter canonically , Has a really unique moveset , based on her series .
Diddy Kong takes some from DK64 and so
Many characters take something from their home series and many other elements in the moveset are either new or totally UNRELATED to the character.
one word: ''Ha-Chaaa!''
and others simply take advantage on their debut games or abilities portrayed in the past , hence Rosalina doing many things she really didn't in the past except for floating which is really unique to her.
The fact that she had a wand also comes in , theres relation as they use it in Smash to make her ''attack'' with Luma and to command it.
In the end , i don't know how would it be if Daisy makes it , but Sakurai totally knows a thing or two abut giving somebody a moveset , see R.O.B , Mr G&W and Duck Hunt for example.
Also i still think Daisy would be better than Toad or Paper Mario , which are the Top in the peak of ''LAME'' in the roster wish list.
But ''Daisy couldn't have a unique moveset'' is a bulllcrap argument , it is for ANY Character.
I think this was pretty clear ever since the first game.
Peach who is not a fighter canonically , Has a really unique moveset , based on her series .
Diddy Kong takes some from DK64 and so
Many characters take something from their home series and many other elements in the moveset are either new or totally UNRELATED to the character.
one word: ''Ha-Chaaa!''
and others simply take advantage on their debut games or abilities portrayed in the past , hence Rosalina doing many things she really didn't in the past except for floating which is really unique to her.
The fact that she had a wand also comes in , theres relation as they use it in Smash to make her ''attack'' with Luma and to command it.
In the end , i don't know how would it be if Daisy makes it , but Sakurai totally knows a thing or two abut giving somebody a moveset , see R.O.B , Mr G&W and Duck Hunt for example.
Also i still think Daisy would be better than Toad or Paper Mario , which are the Top in the peak of ''LAME'' in the roster wish list.
Actually, the majority of Peach's Smash moveset is based on her Super Mario RPG abilities, in which she was a magic caster, with a few extra things like golf club/tennis racket and turnips from SMG2. Then the rest of the gaps were filled in with one or two generic "girly" moves, but that was fine since there were no girly characters in the game besides Jigglypuff I guess, and Peach is party defined by her girlyness and there really isn't a Nintendo character that's more girly (though Daisy comes quite close to be honest).
Let me re-iterate - you could come up with a unique moveset for Daisy, but it would likely feel forced and like you had to reach for it. She doesn't have any naturally unique characteristics.
Half of Rosalina's moves are original in terms of the animations, but they are based on her gravitational powers and her role as a cosmic goddess. They also made many of her moves resemble dolphin tricks, since dolphins are elegant and beautiful, and so is Rosalina. And she effectively "swims" through the air as is.
And while it was likely unintentional on Sakurai's part, the dolphin idea came full circle in Puzzles & Dragons, where Rosalina is a Water element character with water powers.
In fact I have read interesting discussions, then I saw: "Who has the best eating donut animation ?" (about MP10), I laughed and closed the page. Never touched it again.
Unfortunaly, I won't be able to read every interesting things (today at least), but I'll try out.
But ''Daisy couldn't have a unique moveset'' is a bulllcrap argument , it is for ANY Character.
I think this was pretty clear ever since the first game.
Peach who is not a fighter canonically , Has a really unique moveset , based on her series .
Diddy Kong takes some from DK64 and so
Many characters take something from their home series and many other elements in the moveset are either new or totally UNRELATED to the character.
one word: ''Ha-Chaaa!''
and others simply take advantage on their debut games or abilities portrayed in the past , hence Rosalina doing many things she really didn't in the past except for floating which is really unique to her.
The fact that she had a wand also comes in , theres relation as they use it in Smash to make her ''attack'' with Luma and to command it.
In the end , i don't know how would it be if Daisy makes it , but Sakurai totally knows a thing or two abut giving somebody a moveset , see R.O.B , Mr G&W and Duck Hunt for example.
Also i still think Daisy would be better than Toad or Paper Mario , which are the Top in the peak of ''LAME'' in the roster wish list.
Saying Daisy doesn't have moveset potential in the thread of Blue Peach is pretty dang hypocrite and honestly pretty stupid.
Daisy has flowers, Rosa has cosmos.
Rosa has a moveset, Daisy will also have a good moveset.
Rosa is elegant, Daisy is energetic and brash. (Whatever it means)
Rosa has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance, Daisy has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance (but then those hyperactive ones with balls on their nose)
And I dare to say that Rosalina's moveset is just elegant kicks with a swirly sprite attached to them.
There's nothing explicitly super groovy cosmos about THAT
EDIT: I do agree tacking random baseball bats and ZSS kicks to Daisy is one of the worst Mario newcomers (others are Geno) you can come up with.
I'm talking flower power here, not sports.
Saying Daisy doesn't have moveset potential in the thread of Blue Peach is pretty dang hypocrite and honestly pretty stupid.
Daisy has flowers, Rosa has cosmos.
Rosa has a moveset, Daisy will also have a good moveset.
Rosa is elegant, Daisy is energetic and brash. (Whatever it means)
Rosa has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance, Daisy has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance (but then those hyperactive ones with balls on their nose)
And I dare to say that Rosalina's moveset is just elegant kicks with a swirly sprite attached to them.
There's nothing explicitly super groovy cosmos about THAT
Saying Daisy doesn't have moveset potential in the thread of Blue Peach is pretty dang hypocrite and honestly pretty stupid.
Daisy has flowers, Rosa has cosmos.
Rosa has a moveset, Daisy will also have a good moveset.
Rosa is elegant, Daisy is energetic and brash. (Whatever it means)
Rosa has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance, Daisy has a pretty much unintentional and straw-graspy dolphin resemblance (but then those hyperactive ones with balls on their nose)
And I dare to say that Rosalina's moveset is just elegant kicks with a swirly sprite attached to them.
There's nothing explicitly super groovy cosmos about THAT
I mean liking flowers to the point of being it her special move in every spin-off.
That argument is like saying everybody who gazes at stars sometimes is Rosalina and could use her galaxy kicks and saturn rings.
I mean liking flowers to the point of being it her special move in every spin-off.
That argument is like saying everybody who gazes at stars sometimes is Rosalina and could use her galaxy kicks and saturn rings.
Those flowers are just part of every special move related to her ever.
Her name is a flower, her crown has a flower, her dress has a flower.
This isn't just a one-time feature, it's her main form of attacking.
Flowers are to Daisy what speed is to Sonic.
Sure, every game character can be fast, but it's Sonic's schtick.
Those flowers are just part of every special move related to her ever.
Her name is a flower, her crown has a flower, her dress has a flower.
This isn't just a one-time feature, it's her main form of attacking.
Flowers are to Daisy what speed is to Sonic.
Sure, every game character can be fast, but it's Sonic's schtick.
She doesn't interact with them. A few flowery particle effects will accompany her kicking a ball at points or doing a twirl, but they aren't even real flowers, they are transparent particle effects, there to look pretty. Just like how Peach has transparent heart particle effects accompany her special moves in a lot of games.
She doesn't use flowers themselves as an attack. She doesn't even have a flower equivalent to Toads. She's not able to shoot a daisy chain from her wrists like Spider Man shoots web, and she doesn't summon Piranha Plant from the ground. She just has a pretty flower aesthetic, for visual flair.
That is not a basis for a moveset. This is why I see her as being a Peach alt/clone, where they just change the hearts and peaches to different kinds of flower themed particle effects.
EDIT: That Mario Wiki link only further proves the point I just made.
That type of discussion wouldn't start if people actually stop to assimilate Rosalina and Daisy, especially when they didn't have anything to do with each other.
She doesn't interact with them. A few flowery particle effects will accompany her kicking a ball at points or doing a twirl, but they aren't even real flowers, they are transparent particle effects, there to look pretty. Just like how Peach has transparent heart particle effects accompany her special moves in a lot of games.
She doesn't use flowers themselves as an attack. She doesn't even have a flower equivalent to Toads. She's not able to shoot a daisy chain from her wrists like Spider Man shoots web, and she doesn't summon Piranha Plant from the ground. She just has a pretty flower aesthetic, for visual flair.
That is not a basis for a moveset. This is why I see her as being a Peach alt/clone, where they just change the hearts and peaches to different kinds of flower themed particle effects.
EDIT: That Mario Wiki link only further proves the point I just made.
And this is the part where you MAKE attacks out of it.
Make a move where she throws petals like in the gif, but where they do damage.
Make a move where she makes a garden that slows opponent's movement.
Just like Sakurai made moves from the galaxy-motif for Rosalina, he could do the same for Daisy, who already has flower related moves, like Flowerbed Return.
That's exactly my point though. You'd have to reach. Make stuff up for her.
I'll be perfectly fine with Daisy being her own unique character in Smash, maybe even support her and be an active fan, when she 1) starts showing up in more than spin-offs, 2) is given unique powers in mainline games or RPG games, and 3) these powers can be more than just visually unique in Smash (i.e. if her power in an RPG game is just "she has a flower sword that can shoot flower petals", I see no reason to include, as she would just be a swordfighter essentially with a projectile. However, if she was given a "Daisy Chain" weapon that is essentially a whip, in an RPG game, and THEN was put into Smash with that, that'd be awesome, as there aren't any characters in Smash that use a whip as their weapon, except for ZSS who only uses one for one or two attacks).
Until then, I don't think she warrants an addition, and doesn't have anything truly cool to work with.
That's exactly my point though. You'd have to reach. Make stuff up for her.
I'll be perfectly fine with Daisy being her own unique character in Smash, maybe even support her and be an active fan, when she 1) starts showing up in more than spin-offs, 2) is given unique powers in mainline games or RPG games, and 3) these powers can be more than just visually unique in Smash (i.e. if her power in an RPG game is just "she has a flower sword that can shoot flower petals", I see no reason to include, as she would just be a swordfighter essentially with a projectile. However, if she was given a "Daisy Chain" weapon that is essentially a whip, in an RPG game, and THEN was put into Smash with that, that'd be awesome, as there aren't any characters in Smash that use a whip as their weapon, except for ZSS who only uses one for one or two attacks).
Until then, I don't think she warrants an addition, and doesn't have anything truly cool to work with.
I've heard that the Daisy support thread has packed up and migrated to the Rosalina thread.
It's not like Daisy needs explicit origins for her moves.
Look at Luigi's Green Missile. It has (correct me if I'm wrong) no origins whatsoever.
There's nothing stopping the developers giving Daisy equipment like a chain of Daises, or a side special that makes her rush forward, leaving flowers trapping the opponent.
If we forget about the origins of the characters and how important they are and whatnot. I would say that she's more Smash worthy than Peach.
That's the actual opposite. Sakurai said he prefers develop characters that has nothing to do with the fighting universe, and he would most likely introduce those ones to Smash.
Um, I know this is a Rosalina ththread and this is no place for a question like this but, What would your thoughts be if Daisy made it as DLC in Sm4sh? It is not my intention nor I am trying to convince anyone to vote for her, just wanna know what your thoughts would be.
Daisy only made one mainstream appearance as the damsel in Super Mario Land; a very minimal role to say the least. Afterwards, she became nothing more than a mere spin-off character. Rosalina has had more mainstream involvement than Daisy, which is the main reason for why Rosalina made it as a playable character in Smash 3DS/Wii U.
Remember that spin-off appearances do not help a character make the cut as a playable in Smash Bros., since Waluigi is an Assist Trophy. As such, Daisy would've been made into an Assist Trophy herself, if she was ever considered to have more than just a mere trophy cameo.
No they aren't. She doesn't have a "galaxy" motif by the way, it's a "cosmic" motif.
Rosalina is a literal goddess. Her entire point is that she is a character with mysterious and amazing powers. That's one of her defining character traits. The way Rosalina's character is set up, they can give her powers ad infinitum, based around anything, because one of her defining character traits is how powerful she is. Hence, she gets random powers out the wazoo, even in something as simple as Mario Golf and Puzzles & Dragons. Smash gave her new powers too, but they were based on the cosmic powers she ALREADY displayed, and if they didn't, it wouldn't matter, because the way the character is set up in the Mario series, her powers are endless and therefore you can make them up and add to her arsenal.
Also she DID have the Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2, which is where the idea of giving her cosmic kicks coming from a universe between her legs, likely came from.
Daisy, on the other hand, doesn't have any special or unique powers. She's just a normal person, for all intents and purposes. And she isn't very unique there.
Daisy needs to see a reboot to her character that fleshes her out, defines her, and gives her powers, before she sees a fully featured addition to the Smash roster.
I've heard that the Daisy support thread has packed up and migrated to the Rosalina thread.
It's not like Daisy needs explicit origins for her moves.
Look at Luigi's Green Missile. It has (correct me if I'm wrong) no origins whatsoever.
There's nothing stopping the developers giving Daisy equipment like a chain of Daises, or a side special that makes her rush forward, leaving flowers trapping the opponent.
If we forget about the origins of the characters and how important they are and whatnot. I would say that she's more Smash worthy than Peach.
Luigi's Smash moveset in Smash is basically to make him like Mario, but a whole lot weirder and clumsier. The Green Missile is a part of that theme.
Also that last line is silly - "if we forget about the things that completely justify a Smash addition to Sakurai in the first place as shown by his design documents, Daisy is more worthy for Smash than Peach". That makes no sense.
No they aren't. She doesn't have a "galaxy" motif by the way, it's a "cosmic" motif.
Rosalina is a literal goddess. Her entire point is that she is a character with mysterious and amazing powers. That's one of her defining character traits. The way Rosalina's character is set up, they can give her powers ad infinitum, based around anything, because one of her defining character traits is how powerful she is. Hence, she gets random powers out the wazoo, even in something as simple as Mario Golf and Puzzles & Dragons. Smash gave her new powers too, but they were based on the cosmic powers she ALREADY displayed, and if they didn't, it wouldn't matter, because the way the character is set up in the Mario series, her powers are endless and therefore you can make them up and add to her arsenal.
Also she DID have the Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2, which is where the idea of giving her cosmic kicks coming from a universe between her legs, likely came from.
Daisy, on the other hand, doesn't have any special or unique powers. She's just a normal person, for all intents and purposes. And she isn't very unique there.
Daisy needs to see a reboot to her character that fleshes her out, defines her, and gives her powers, before she sees a fully featured addition to the Smash roster.
Luigi's Smash moveset in Smash is basically to make him like Mario, but a whole lot weirder and clumsier. The Green Missile is a part of that theme.
Also that last line is silly - "if we forget about the things that completely justify a Smash addition to Sakurai in the first place as shown by his design documents, Daisy is more worthy for Smash than Peach". That makes no sense.
Well this has been a very interesting discussion here. Don't know what brought a Daisy supporter here in the first place in a thread as awesome as this.
And with that, I'm gonna take a piss first and then and go back to sleep.
Luigi's Smash moveset in Smash is basically to make him like Mario, but a whole lot weirder and clumsier. The Green Missile is a part of that theme.
Also that last line is silly - "if we forget about the things that completely justify a Smash addition to Sakurai in the first place as shown by his design documents, Daisy is more worthy for Smash than Peach". That makes no sense.
Sorry, What I actually meant was that in terms of the CHARACTER Daisy easily meets the requirements for Smash.
"A character that shows personality in their game"
Daisy has this in the bag. She is a crazy woman-child who's always in your face. Compared to Peach and Rosalina who are much more ladylike.
"It is important to show what a character can do."
Daisy can use a mix of flower abilities, crystal abilities and sports equipment.
The only problem is franchise distribution. And since there are only a few notable Mario characters to add left, and Mario is Nintendo's flagship franchise.....
