Moonblasting the competition! The Psychic/Fairy type Gardevoir for Smash Ultimate

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Thoughts? Do you think this is correct?

But don’t push the panic button yet

Because reminder that the ballot may give Gardevoir the spot since it involved the words “to present for gen 3”

Besides Gardevoir is still missing in action

 

[Teeb147]

Thoughts? Do you think this is correct?

But don’t push the panic button yet

Because reminder that the ballot may give Gardevoir the spot since it involved the words “to present for gen 3”

Besides Gardevoir is still missing in action

Seems like a normal biased critique. Demos could have more rushed placeholder names, dunno why it's treated like a big deal.
(Not to say the leak couldn't be fake in any case)

May look into it at some point, but I gotta go for now.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I'd say that critique is as valid as the leak itself. A leak won't put Gardevoir in smash, it'll be either Sakurai's intrigue or her popularity in the ballot.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Maybe Gardevoir will be this game's Palutena.

Was in a fake leak but got in anyway.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Thoughts? Do you think this is correct?

But don’t push the panic button yet

Because reminder that the ballot may give Gardevoir the spot since it involved the words “to present for gen 3”

Besides Gardevoir is still missing in action

It's all the same arguments. Nothing new, nothing that truly debunks it. The only actually good argument is the naming stuff. Everything else is speculation or pure garbage. How many times will people say "Gothitelle is too dumb" before realizing that's not an argument at all?

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't really matter. People are only so adamant about proving it false because they want it to be false, like if they don't provide the proof it may become reality. It's either true or false and no amount of arguing can change whichever one it is.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It's all the same arguments. Nothing new, nothing that truly debunks it. The only actually good argument is the naming stuff. Everything else is speculation or pure garbage. How many times will people say "Gothitelle is too dumb" before realizing that's not an argument at all?

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't really matter. People are only so adamant about proving it false because they want it to be false, like if they don't provide the proof it may become reality. It's either true or false and no amount of arguing can change whichever one it is.

I keep bringing up that there were loads of characters added that seemed as stupid at the time ect. but I keep getting the explanation of how they make sense... ignoring the point that we only know that stuff now because of hindsight.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

agreed, if smash speculation has taught me anything, it is that the fan's perceptions of Roster inclusion is about 50/50. And yet, despite numerous surprise characters and red herrings, people still act blind to their own perceptions as if its gold. If Gardevoir is added, I assure you she too will become "an obvious choice."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

agreed, if smash speculation has taught me anything, it is that the fan's perceptions of Roster inclusion is about 50/50. And yet, despite numerous surprise characters and red herrings, people still act blind to their own perceptions as if its gold. If Gardevoir is added, I assure you she too will become "an obvious choice."

See also, people saying Richter was an obvious guess, missing all the reaction videos with people going "Who's Richard?"

For crying out loud, it might be fake but it wasn't obvious!

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Are people actually saying that? Because not only did no one guess him but Smashboards even had several "this is who Ricter Belmont is" threads to inform the masses (which I found somewhat surprising to say the least).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Are people actually saying that? Because not only did no one guess him but Smashboards even had several "this is who Ricter Belmont is" threads to inform the masses (which I found somewhat surprising to say the least).

Yes, some people are saying this leak wasn't even a lucky guess as Richter is the obvious non-Simon Belmont.

In Japan maybe but even then the Castlevania series is nowhere near as big as it is overseas. Over here the big other Belmont is Trevor, star of the Castlevania III and the netflix series.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

See also, people saying Richter was an obvious guess, missing all the reaction videos with people going "Who's Richard?"

For crying out loud, it might be fake but it wasn't obvious!

Historical revisionism tends to be a common sight in lieu of having to admit to taking the L. Hindsight is a ***** like that.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

On a much less "for heaven's sake!" topic, here's a picture I found.

Rosalina and Luma Echo maybe?

 

[WaddleKing]

On a much less "for heaven's sake!" topic, here's a picture I found.

Rosalina and Luma Echo maybe?

Reminds me of this picture I had found on Miiverse long ago.

Though me and my friend had thought of Gardevoir + Jirachi (Or Starfy if you want to go that) rather than Minior.

But if you want my take, I say Gardevoir is too good to be like Rosalina in moveset.

 

[Teeb147]

When I was looking for Gardevoir mods, I thought it would be cool to find one for Rosalina, it would just fit more. Didn't find any.
I like the pic with the Minior, that could work. Though obviously not for Ultimate.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I keep bringing up that there were loads of characters added that seemed as stupid at the time ect. but I keep getting the explanation of how they make sense... ignoring the point that we only know that stuff now because of hindsight.

Not to mention that Gothitelle wouldn't be getting in on her own merits at all. She'd be getting in as a clone entirely on Gardevoir's coattails. That's much less strange than someone like Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Maybe Gardevoir will be this game's Palutena.

Was in a fake leak but got in anyway.

I'm still confident Gardevoir could make it into the game. It's not as as some people thinks, she has a real fanbase. Imo there is no absolute 'ruleset' for Sakurai and his team regarding newcomers. There are factors sure, like popularity, marketing (promoting a franchise or a new game) etc. Sometimes one, a few or none of those factors are taken into consideration. Gardevoir has her popularity and it should be plenty enough to make her a plausible choice.

Who needs leaks when you got hope?

 

[Teeb147]

A leak is really just a possible truth. Can have hope for it too.
It sucks when people lie. But sometimes a leak gives people hope because they didnt think it was possible, or much, in the first place.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

But if you want my take, I say Gardevoir is too good to be like Rosalina in moveset.

Agreed, for me the appeal of a playable Gardevoir is in having a fighter based on grace and dance. Rosalina may have the former, but definitely not the latter. Some might argue that Shantae could also fit that niche, but I'd argue that Shantae's form of dance doesn't really translate as much into her moves as they do her transformations. For Gardevoir, her form of dance incorporates straight into her moves (like say an aerial piroutte or up tilt grand battement). Such a concept would be completely new to smash.

Having Gardevoir echo another character, thereby shedding her dancing roots and influences, would be a disservice to the character as a whole.

 

[Teeb147]

Agreed, for me the appeal of a playable Gardevoir is in having a fighter based on grace and dance. Rosalina may have the former, but definitely not the latter. Some might argue that Shantae could also fit that niche, but I'd argue that Shantae's form of dance doesn't really translate as much into her moves as they do her transformations. For Gardevoir, her form of dance incorporates straight into her moves (like say an aerial piroutte or up tilt grand battement). Such a concept would be completely new to smash.

Having Gardevoir echo another character, thereby shedding her dancing roots and influences, would be a disservice to the character as a whole.

Animations are easy to adjust, look at Dark Samus. They could still make her(gardevoir) dance more just like that.
That said I'd still want her to be original. Not that they couldn't use Rosalina as a base for her, since they do have quite a bit in common.
Shantae's got potential to be more vibrant, if they add more animation than the original games, but I guess you're right.

 

[WaddleKing]

Agreed, for me the appeal of a playable Gardevoir is in having a fighter based on grace and dance. Rosalina may have the former, but definitely not the latter. Some might argue that Shantae could also fit that niche, but I'd argue that Shantae's form of dance doesn't really translate as much into her moves as they do her transformations. For Gardevoir, her form of dance incorporates straight into her moves (like say an aerial piroutte or up tilt grand battement). Such a concept would be completely new to smash.

Having Gardevoir echo another character, thereby shedding her dancing roots and influences, would be a disservice to the character as a whole.

I mean if we're speaking moveset wise realistically, I'd say it's only to an extent in terms of appearance and somewhat animations wise (Why she works best modded over Rosalina in Mario Kart) they work similar. Moveset wise not really too much imo, I'd say she's more like Mewtwo and definitely Zelda in that. Rosalina and her may both have a dress but different kinds, plus Gardevoir doesn't use things such as galaxy rings, cosmos (in her case psychic powers) coming out of her dress, a wand and her other abilities in the same manner for the most part.
If she had to have a base, I'd say it'd be between Zelda and Mewtwo she'd work best mainly, though you could draw inspiration from Rosalina too but I don't think she'd work well as a main one.

When I had created this thread I had no echos in mind, back then I was unsure if it could really get added because it might not add much to the table (Mewtwo being the biggest factor) but it can represent a lot of things and certainly be unique, echo or not, leak or not, I sure hope we don't let this support simply fade away, I really enjoying seeing people support Pokemon not just for being from the latest generation then move onto the next one when that one passes and just ignore all the previous ones. After all we got Pokemon Trainer back in Brawl, who's latest thing was FireRed and LeafGreen

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well I have always been against bandwagoning the newest generation or even treating pokemon in terms of generation relevance. The way I understand it, pokemon are no different than any other nintendo franchise, with characters over time building a legacy through the games they're in. This is why I don't understand the gen 1 over representation argument (since they are simply characters who have been represented more and thusly built a larger fanbase) or why I don't like bandwagoning on new gen reps (for characters that have hardly proved their merit). It would seem in my mind that characters like Gardevoir and Blaziken have a much bigger legacy at this point making them the best new representative for the franchise. Personally I simply prefer Gardevoir's aesthetic and moveset potential over Blaziken which is why I support her as the next best poke rep.

As for moveset differentiation, I think Pokken shows how different Mewtwo and Gardevoir operate as fighters. I can't see them operating the same, Mewtwo's aesthetic doesn't match Gardevoir character at all. Sakurai makes an effort to make all unique fighters utilize moves that speak their personality which in itself would make them vastly different characters. Gardevoir simply as a psychic type might not add much but, Gardevoir as a graceful psychic magical dancer is something unique compared to say an interstellar space princess or a savage psychic powerhouse. As for Shantae, I don't mean any ill regard to the character. I simply feel that their forms of dance (and how they relate to their moves) are vastly different and thus aren't comparable in terms of substitution.

Though I understand if Gardevoir had to be an echo, she could work as a Rosa echo I suppose. Though if she took this route, I would hope she would be differentiated simply by not having a luma equivalent and damage changes to her moves to make up for it (and maybe different visual effects instead of the galaxy effects). Still I don't know if I'd be down with Gardevoir as an echo as my interest in her playability is more on what unique things she has to offer over say just having her in (though I suppose beggars can't be choosers).

Also I hate to mention it but, while I don't believe Red was added due to relevancy, technically pokemon firered and leafgreen were the last pokemon games to come out upon Brawl's initial project plan. I remember at the time of Brawl's release window, there being suprise about 4th gen inclusion due to the fact that Diamond and Pearl had been released the same year as the first trailer for Brawl. Though I suppose following that same logic, we can certify that AS and OR were the latest poke games upon Smash Ultimate's project plan. I don't know, honestly I find poke reps almost impossible to guess but I just hope it isn't unwarranted gen 7 fanfare. Actually I think the only pokemon rep I would be happy with would be Gardevoir (though I wouldn't mind a Blaziken echo of C. Falcon).

 

[WaddleKing]

Well I have always been against bandwagoning the newest generation or even treating pokemon in terms of generation relevance. The way I understand it, pokemon are no different than any other nintendo franchise, with characters over time build a legacy through the games they're in. This is why I don't understand the gen 1 over representation argument (since they are simply characters who have been represented more and thusly built a larger fanbase) or why I don't like bandwagoning on new gen reps (for characters that have hardly proved their merit). It would seem in my mind that characters like Gardevoir and Blaziken have a much bigger legacy at this point making them the best new representative for the franchise. Personally I simply prefer Gardevoir's aesthetic and moveset potential over Blaziken which is why I support her as the next best poke rep.

As for moveset differentiation, I think Pokken shows how different Mewtwo and Gardevoir operate as fighters. I can't see them operating the same, Mewtwo's aesthetic doesn't match Gardevoir character at all. Sakurai makes an effort to make all unique fighters utilize moves that speak their personality which in itself would make them vastly different characters. Gardevoir simply as a psychic type might not add much but, Gardevoir as a graceful psychic magical dancer is something unique compared to say an interstellar space princess or a savage psychic powerhouse. As for Shantae, I don't mean any ill regard to the character. I simply feel that their forms of dance (and how they relate to their moves) are vastly different and thus aren't comparable in terms of substitution.

Though I understand if Gardevoir had to be an echo, she could work as a Rosa echo I suppose. Though if she took this route, I would hope she would be differentiated simply by not having a luma equivalent and damage changes to her moves to make up for it (and maybe different visual effects instead of the galaxy effects). Still I don't know if I'd be down with Gardevoir as an echo as my interest in her playability is more on what unique things she has to offer over say just having her in (though I suppose beggars can't be choosers).

Also I hate to be mention it but while I don't believe Red was added due to relevancy, technically pokemon firered and leafgreen were the last pokemon games to come out upon Brawl's initial project plan. I remember at the time of Brawl's release window, there being suprise about 4th gen inclusion due to the fact that Diamond and Pearl had been released the same year as the first trailer for Brawl. Though I suppose following that same logic, we can certify that AS and OR were the latest poke games upon Smash Ultimate's project plan. I don't know, honestly I find poke reps almost impossible to guess but I certainly hope it isn't unwarranted gen 7 fanfare. Actually I think the only pokemon rep I would be happy with would be Gardevoir (though I wouldn't mind a Blaziken echo of C. Falcon).

I can agree Rosalina's aesthetic is similar but moveset wise they're really not much alike at all really, even Mewtwo shares more in moveset, they don't do the same type of attacks and I don't ever recall Gardevoir using her dress in the same manner as things like Rosalina's fair and bair while it's done a similar swipe as Mewtwo's fair in the TCG.

Granted translating something like Rosalina's moveset into another is pretty rare it'd work usually, as her moveset is pretty specific to her character unlike some others who are easier to translate, though I feel some of her aesthetic could work well for Gardevoir though (The dash, similar animations here and there, general feel etc)
In general though I think we can look at all of our Psychic/Magic users (Ness, Lucas, Robin, Zelda, Mewtwo, Rosalina (Kind of)) for inspiration one way or another.
Also something I just realized, if it somewhow became an echo of Rosalina (Though I really can't see it work well at all) it'd be the first one unless you count Ganondorf in Melee as one to have debuted before the fighter it's an echo of. Though as I said I feel Zelda works far better than Rosalina for Gardevoir myself, I do not feel they are as similar as made out to be personally.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

Outside the Pokémon series, I've known for a while the exact characters I really want in Ultimate, but when I look at which Pokémon I'd want, I can't seem to decide.

I remember, a few days ago, answering a fan poll about newcomers in Ultimate and scrolling through the "characters you want the most" section, and when I saw Gardevoir, I stopped. I asked myself, "Is Gardevoir really this popular to get into a poll?" The more I thought about it, the more I wanted to give a vote to Gardevoir, but after some hard consideration, I used it for another Pokémon that I think would be more likely to make the cut, probably Decidueye.

There isn't really any specific Pokémon I want to become a fighter. What I can say, though, is that my 3 favorite Pokémon generations are 3, 5, and 7 (with 3 being my #1 favorite), and those 3 are the only generations to not be represented in Smash with fighters. I know Pichu's sort of a joke character, but he/she's still from Gen 2. I also know that I love Grass-type starters, which I feel got shafted a bit compared to Fire-types across the series, and especially compared to Water-types.

What I want, then, is really any Pokémon that's from Gen 3, 5, or 7, and/or a Grass-type starter. Obviously Gardevoir fits this, and while Gardevoir isn't necessarily one of my favorite Pokémon, I definitely like her a lot, and I think she's one of the best Gen 3 Pokémon/Fairy-types.

I don't know if I'd commit to putting my full support behind any single Pokémon, but I'd be pretty happy if Gardevoir was confirmed playable for Ultimate.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Even if the leak was a (very) lucky fake, remember at the end of the day: It's not over until we see Gardevoir.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Even if the leak was a (very) lucky fake, remember at the end of the day: It's not over until we see Gardevoir.

Yeah, that is why I want to wait until the next wave of Poké Ball assists before getting excited so I don't risk being Ashley'd again.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yeah, that is why I want to wait until the next wave of Poké Ball assists before getting excited so I don't risk being Ashley'd again.

I love how we got lingo now

Luigification: To be altered from a clone moveset
Echo'd: To loose differencs to be easier to make a clone moveset out of (e.g. Daisy having a Toad now)
Isaac'd: To be unceremoniously dropped from a non-playable role entirely when there were hopes for a promotion
Ashley'd: To be unceremoniously confirmed for a non-playable role when there's hopes for a promotion.

Wonder if they'll make it to urban dictionary

 

[SebasSancy]

Even if the leak was a (very) lucky fake, remember at the end of the day: It's not over until we see Gardevoir.

I still have hope. I think that in 2015 we got Pokkén and before that we got Pokémon ORAS, and Gardevoir is so popular among pokémon fans . On the new Luminose City stage there's a poster of Diantha alone, when the obvious choices would be putting her with Gardevoir wich is her ace pokémon.


I don't know, maybe I'm unbiased, but I still want Gardevoir and I think it may happen

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I can agree Rosalina's aesthetic is similar but moveset wise they're really not much alike at all really, even Mewtwo shares more in moveset, they don't do the same type of attacks and I don't ever recall Gardevoir using her dress in the same manner as things like Rosalina's fair and bair while it's done a similar swipe as Mewtwo's fair in the TCG.

Also something I just realized, if it somewhow became an echo of Rosalina (Though I really can't see it work well at all) it'd be the first one unless you count Ganondorf in Melee as one to have debuted before the fighter it's an echo of. Though as I said I feel Zelda works far better than Rosalina for Gardevoir myself, I do not feel they are as similar as made out to be personally.

I guess Zelda could work too. The thing I like about pokemon incorporation is that the attack moves are vague enough that there's no saying which way they would be interpreted into a fighting game. I also don't see pokemon in the same type using the same moves in the same ways. I think Greninja shows this off in a cool way by not just using moves like Hydro Pump and Shadow Sneak in a traditional fashion but using these moves in very Ninja like ways. I guess that's why I have a hard time relating Gardevoir to Mewtwo despite the type and moveset similarities.

But yeah fair enough if Gardevoir was an echo there are a couple of characters that could work. I just hope if Gardevoir is in that she is unique.

 

[PichuMain]

I wonder if we can be added for support for Gardevoir. This thread is pretty old up till recently.

But would anyone be willing to try, or even main Gothitelle? There's A LOT of backlash like you guys explained, but if this is true and bites the doubters in the butt, would you guys be willing to try Gothitelle?

Would Gardevoir be a weighty character due to her size? Idk.

 

[Teeb147]

I wonder if we can be added for support for Gardevoir. This thread is pretty old up till recently.

But would anyone be willing to try, or even main Gothitelle? There's A LOT of backlash like you guys explained, but if this is true and bites the doubters in the butt, would you guys be willing to try Gothitelle?

Would Gardevoir be a weighty character due to her size? Idk.

I don't think anyone would be upset about it to the point of boycotting gothitelle, especially if she just happens to be in the game.
There might be a few salty people, but just being an echo, who cares. Free extra fighter.

Gardevoir would probably be like Rosalina's weight.

 

[Luminario]

I wonder if we can be added for support for Gardevoir. This thread is pretty old up till recently.

But would anyone be willing to try, or even main Gothitelle? There's A LOT of backlash like you guys explained, but if this is true and bites the doubters in the butt, would you guys be willing to try Gothitelle?

Would Gardevoir be a weighty character due to her size? Idk.

For me it'll probably be the same situation as Peach and Daisy, where I play the original one much more than the echo but they'd both get a lot of play time.

Garde would probably be lightweight no matter how it's handled, probably in the Peach to Rosalina range of weight.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

I support. Gardevoir is my second favorite Pokemon.

The only think keeping me hopeful is that it's so far the only Gen 3 Pokemon that appeared in Smash 4 that has yet to be shown in Ultimate. I don't believe the datamine leak, but I'm glad it brought more discussion for her.

 

[PichuMain]

I wonder how they'll implement her moveset into Smash. Especially her Recovery.

Also, hello TimidKitsune!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder how they'll implement her moveset into Smash. Especially her Recovery.

Also, hello TimidKitsune!

Well if Gardevoir has a unique moveset then the one they'll need to use is Future Sight as that's one of it's signatures. Recovery would most likely be Teleport but may function differently from Mewtwo's

 

[PichuMain]

Well if Gardevoir has a unique moveset then the one they'll need to use is Future Sight as that's one of it's signatures. Recovery would most likely be Teleport but may function differently from Mewtwo's

Is that like a Counter? I never played Pokemon.

 

[Nemuresu]

Is that like a Counter? I never played Pokemon.

It's a move that the user sets in one turn and then harms whatever opponent is on the battlefield two turns later. Basically, think of it as some kind of trap move.

And now that I'm here, sign me up as a Gardevoir supporter. It's my fave non-legendary/mythical pokémon.

 

[PichuMain]

Lets get this Gardevoir train going!! Support for BEST Pokemon! Who's with me?!

It's a move that the user sets in one turn and then harms whatever opponent is on the battlefield two turns later. Basically, think of it as some kind of trap move.

And now that I'm here, sign me up as a Gardevoir supporter. It's my fave non-legendary/mythical pokémon.

Ooooh. So its Snakes Mines, except its not detonated remotely? Thats interesting. Would certainly create space for Gardevoir, and would have absolute control due to fear of landing on that trap.

 

[NintenZ]

You know, I see her and Gengar as probably one of the more likely non-Gen 7 Pokemon in the game, and I feel that she would be really unique as a character in Smash in all honesty.

Count me in as a supporter.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

You know, I see her and Gengar as probably one of the more likely non-Gen 7 Pokemon in the game, and I feel that she would be really unique as a character in Smash in all honesty.

Count me in as a supporter.

I know Gengar is popular, but a pretty good portion of the Pokemon reps is filled up by Gen I slots (Gen I is where Gengar was introduced), plus you already have Mewtwo and Greninja filling out the Ghostly/telekinetic role quite well, if anything I'd rather see Gengar as a Pokeball assist.

It's either Gardevoir or bust.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

IMO, I would love to see Gardevior in Smash

But at the same time, don't understand the reasoning for Gothitelle. Her legs are far too short and her dress isn't flowy enough for her to be a proper Gardevior echo.