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Moonblasting the competition! The Psychic/Fairy type Gardevoir for Smash Ultimate

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Tall,, thin, light, (apparently) female. I don't see the issue. Is it because her feet are too small for lightning kicks?
It's more than that. Based on its Pokedex entry from Pokemon Emerald, Gardevoir is able to levitate, and I don't recall Zelda having that kind of ability. Having levitation abilities would warrant having better mobility overall; maybe not as fast on the ground as Mewtwo, but Gardevoir's overall mobility would be on the above average side of the scale.

Also, Gardevoir could be one of the floatiest fighters, having the second slowest falling speed and second lowest gravity; it would only lose to Jigglypuff in those departments.

And as you've said yourself, Gardevoir's feet are too small when compared to Zelda's; last I've checked, it doesn't learn any kicking attacks in the Pokemon series.
 

Guybrush20X6

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It's more than that. Based on its Pokedex entry from Pokemon Emerald, Gardevoir is able to levitate, and I don't recall Zelda having that kind of ability. Having levitation abilities would warrant having better mobility overall; maybe not as fast on the ground as Mewtwo, but Gardevoir's overall mobility would be on the above average side of the scale.

Also, Gardevoir could be one of the floatiest fighters, having the second slowest falling speed and second lowest gravity; it would only lose to Jigglypuff in those departments.

And as you've said yourself, Gardevoir's feet are too small when compared to Zelda's; last I've checked, it doesn't learn any kicking attacks in the Pokemon series.
None of those seem to be deal breakers. Gardevoir can float but doesn't need to. Also, I know Pokedex stats don't count for much but Gardevoir is nowhere near Jigglypuff light.

As for the tiny feet, Zelda's kicks were always more about the magic she summoned at her heels. IIRC, the actual kick is a sourspot and some of the worst aerials.

Gardevoir may be more suited to Rosalina but it doesn't mean that they are impossible as a Zelda Echo.
 

WaddleKing

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Moveset wise, I don't think a Gardevoir with most if not, any of Rosalina's moves would work, unless you were to somehow merge Gardevoir and Jirachi together but even then it'd lack her wand. (Although it'd be kind of rad) Zelda is more suited for it if they were to base her off someone, even Mewtwo would be more suited than Rosalina.
But on the idea of Gardevoir as a Zelda echo fighter, not too sure how they'd go with that, it'd be the first time we'd get such a strong clone off different series, and I am not sure if all of Zelda's attributes would translate to it. I could see them going more the Melee Ganon route realistically if so, although it would obviously take a lot more work, though not as much as a completely original moveset. Still it's an interesting idea.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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None of those seem to be deal breakers. Gardevoir can float but doesn't need to. Also, I know Pokedex stats don't count for much but Gardevoir is nowhere near Jigglypuff light.

As for the tiny feet, Zelda's kicks were always more about the magic she summoned at her heels. IIRC, the actual kick is a sourspot and some of the worst aerials.

Gardevoir may be more suited to Rosalina but it doesn't mean that they are impossible as a Zelda Echo.
Gardevoir would still be heavier than Jigglypuff. It's just that its levitation abilities would enable it to descend at a slower rate than with most of the other Smash Bros. contenders.

Moveset wise, I don't think a Gardevoir with most if not, any of Rosalina's moves would work, unless you were to somehow merge Gardevoir and Jirachi together but even then it'd lack her wand. (Although it'd be kind of rad) Zelda is more suited for it if they were to base her off someone, even Mewtwo would be more suited than Rosalina.
After seeing this post, I had to go back and look at the Miiverse drawings that I saved. I remembered seeing a drawing of a Gardevoir and Cleffa imitating Rosalina and a Luma.

WVW69idg_9cLtptdOW.png


The drawing belonged to a former Miiverse user who used the name, ソードマスターリンク.
 

Guybrush20X6

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On the topic of Garde-Rosalina, I think she'd have moveset powers adjusted and Luma would be replaced with a Moon blast projectile that works like Kirby's version of Luma shot. (Lucina is basically Marth minus Gimmick after all) And the Star Bit equivalent would come from Gardevoir itself.

I think Zelda's the best fit myself but both versions can work.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I'm worried for one particular scenario, Gardevoir is no longer a Pokeball Pokemon and we then go the next 6 months and the DLC cycle in a state of perpetual "just maybe".

Side note: Palutena Echo could work if Gardevoir summons a pole of psychic energy like how Lucario makes Aura bones in Pokken.

B: Magical Leaf
B-Side: Moonblast
B-Up: Teleport
B-Down: Reflect/Lightscreen
 

P.Kat

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I'm worried for one particular scenario, Gardevoir is no longer a Pokeball Pokemon and we then go the next 6 months and the DLC cycle in a state of perpetual "just maybe".

Side note: Palutena Echo could work if Gardevoir summons a pole of psychic energy like how Lucario makes Aura bones in Pokken.

B: Magical Leaf
B-Side: Moonblast
B-Up: Teleport
B-Down: Reflect/Lightscreen
Well the bright is side is that we don't see a Pokéball Pokémon using the same mechanic as Gardevoir did. I didn't see any other Pokémon using reflect otherwise that would of seal her fate so I think she still has a chance.

Your Palutena echo idea sounds good too.
 
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Kirby Dragons

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Echoing Rosalina is a poor idea IMO. You'd need a replacement for Luma, which would have to be some random Pokemon Gardevoir has no connection to. You could take out Luma completely and create a semi-clone, but then Gardevoir would just be a terribly worse version of Rosie.

Gardevoir could actually match Zelda's specials:
  • Nayru's Love: Reflect
  • Din's Fire: Will-O-Wisp
  • Farore's Wind: Teleport
  • Phantom Slash: Gallade
  • Triforce of Wisdom: Shattered Psyche
EDIT: I didn't even see Guybrush do this on the first page. His specials turned out to be the exact same as mine (but no Final Smash).
 
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Guybrush20X6

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I went ahead and made potential Garde Echos for ust about all the characters that I think could fit.

Gardevoir ε-z :ultzelda:

No specific moveset alterations needed outside of Phantom Slash's animations.
B: Reflect/Light Screen
B-Side: Will O' Wisp
Up-B: Teleport
Down-B: Gallade

FINAL SMASH: Black Hole- Triforce of Wisdom but circular

Gardevoir ε-p :ultpalutena:

Gardevoir has no staff but moves using it can summon a vortex of psychic energy in it's stead. The two moves that use the shield can use a reflect barrier.

B: Magical Leaf
B-Side: Moonblast
B-Up: Teleport
B-Down: Reflect

Final Smash: Black Hole + Hyperbeam- What it says on the tin.

Gardevoir ε-r :ultrosalina:

The one that would need the most alterations, Gardevoir doesn't have a Luma equivelent by itself BUT there are a couple of solutions.

A. There is no Luma and like Lucina to Marth, Gardevoir has damage and knockback values changed to be user friendly Rosalina
B. Gardevoir teams up with Minior, a Gen 7 Pokemon that seems to be Game Freak's version of the Luma

Solo moveset

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Disarming Voice
B-Up: Fling
Down-B: Trick

With Minior

B: Iron Head
B-Side: Power Gen
B-Up: Fling
B-Down: Trick

Gardevoir ε-m :ultmewtwo:

One that makes sense on the surface but would need some alterations. The tail attacks would need to be reanimated to either use a vague psychic limb to strike people with or use it's dress to strike instead.

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Confusion
B-Down: Teleport
B-Down: Imprison (Disable with different name)
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
I went ahead and made potential Garde Echos for ust about all the characters that I think could fit.

Gardevoir ε-z :ultzelda:

No specific moveset alterations needed outside of Phantom Slash's animations.
B: Reflect/Light Screen
B-Side: Will O' Wisp
Up-B: Teleport
Down-B: Gallade

FINAL SMASH: Black Hole- Triforce of Wisdom but circular

Gardevoir ε-p :ultpalutena:

Gardevoir has no staff but moves using it can summon a vortex of psychic energy in it's stead. The two moves that use the shield can use a reflect barrier.

B: Magical Leaf
B-Side: Moonblast
B-Up: Teleport
B-Down: Reflect

Final Smash: Black Hole + Hyperbeam- What it says on the tin.

Gardevoir ε-r :ultrosalina:

The one that would need the most alterations, Gardevoir doesn't have a Luma equivelent by itself BUT there are a couple of solutions.

A. There is no Luma and like Lucina to Marth, Gardevoir has damage and knockback values changed to be user friendly Rosalina
B. Gardevoir teams up with Minior, a Gen 7 Pokemon that seems to be Game Freak's version of the Luma

Solo moveset

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Disarming Voice
B-Up: Fling
Down-B: Trick

With Minior

B: Iron Head
B-Side: Power Gen
B-Up: Fling
B-Down: Trick

Gardevoir ε-m :ultmewtwo:

One that makes sense on the surface but would need some alterations. The tail attacks would need to be reanimated to either use a vague psychic limb to strike people with or use it's dress to strike instead.

B: Energy Ball
B-Side: Confusion
B-Down: Teleport
B-Down: Imprison (Disable with different name)
oooh I like the idea of trading Palutena's staff for a vortex. I think that Mewtwo and Rosalina are just too out-there to really work as echoes, even though a Rosi echo that removes Luma sounds pretty unique in itself.
 

SEGAGameBoy

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If we're talking about just Psychic-type Pokemon, Gardevoir is definitely my favorite. If we're talking about Pokemon in general, my favorite is Giratina. I support!
 
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Still looking for supporters? I'm in :)

Especially after seeing this:
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/
Hi! I was working at CEO this year and I managed to get a copy the demo build used for the tournaments. There were a few interesting things in the code for the character select:
>The Simon Belmont leaker had the Castlevania IP right, but not the character. "Rihita", Richter Belmont's Japanese name, was among those listed.
>"Sirnight", Gardevoir's Japanese name, was among them. Interestingly, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are all listed with their echo counterparts - "Gothiruselle" (Gothitelle) was underneath her. I presume, then, that Gothitelle is going to be an echo of Gardevoir.
>"Mario2" was listed as a seperate character. I have no idea what this means, but if I had to guess, either Paper Mario or Mario 64 Mario.
>"Kruru" (King K Rool) and "DakuS" (Dark Samus? It was underneath regular Samus) were both listed, unsurprisingly.
Obviously it's a demo build, so there may be more characters who haven't been added to the select screen code yet.

My attention was just brought to this one when I searched "Richter" in the 4chan archives. This supposed leak was submitted on July 1st, way before the direct or it's announcement. It predicted Richter, which is a substantial claim. Definitely keep an eye on this one.

The credibility of this leak and others are discussed on the Official Smash Ultimate discussion. As for myself, i want to believe.

 
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XStarWarriorX

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Still looking for supporters? I'm in :)

Especially after seeing this:
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/
Hi! I was working at CEO this year and I managed to get a copy the demo build used for the tournaments. There were a few interesting things in the code for the character select:
>The Simon Belmont leaker had the Castlevania IP right, but not the character. "Rihita", Richter Belmont's Japanese name, was among those listed.
>"Sirnight", Gardevoir's Japanese name, was among them. Interestingly, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are all listed with their echo counterparts - "Gothiruselle" (Gothitelle) was underneath her. I presume, then, that Gothitelle is going to be an echo of Gardevoir.
>"Mario2" was listed as a seperate character. I have no idea what this means, but if I had to guess, either Paper Mario or Mario 64 Mario.
>"Kruru" (King K Rool) and "DakuS" (Dark Samus? It was underneath regular Samus) were both listed, unsurprisingly.
Obviously it's a demo build, so there may be more characters who haven't been added to the select screen code yet.

My attention was just brought to this one when I searched "Richter" in the 4chan archives. This supposed leak was submitted on July 1st, way before the direct or it's announcement. It predicted Richter, which is a substantial claim. Definitely keep an eye on this one.

The credibility of this leak and others are discussed on the Official Smash Ultimate discussion. As for myself, i want to believe.

I never thought this would be legit, but who the hell would mentioni ricky, ever? If true it would satisfy me. Pokken is a underrated game. Let me join your supporter list.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Still looking for supporters? I'm in :)

Especially after seeing this:
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422689663/
Hi! I was working at CEO this year and I managed to get a copy the demo build used for the tournaments. There were a few interesting things in the code for the character select:
>The Simon Belmont leaker had the Castlevania IP right, but not the character. "Rihita", Richter Belmont's Japanese name, was among those listed.
>"Sirnight", Gardevoir's Japanese name, was among them. Interestingly, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are all listed with their echo counterparts - "Gothiruselle" (Gothitelle) was underneath her. I presume, then, that Gothitelle is going to be an echo of Gardevoir.
>"Mario2" was listed as a seperate character. I have no idea what this means, but if I had to guess, either Paper Mario or Mario 64 Mario.
>"Kruru" (King K Rool) and "DakuS" (Dark Samus? It was underneath regular Samus) were both listed, unsurprisingly.
Obviously it's a demo build, so there may be more characters who haven't been added to the select screen code yet.

My attention was just brought to this one when I searched "Richter" in the 4chan archives. This supposed leak was submitted on July 1st, way before the direct or it's announcement. It predicted Richter, which is a substantial claim. Definitely keep an eye on this one.

The credibility of this leak and others are discussed on the Official Smash Ultimate discussion. As for myself, i want to believe.

By Arceus's plates I hope it's true.
It's almost like the fake leak I would make if I was inclined to do that sort of thing. ('cept mine would have had Ashley too).

It seems a little strange at first for Gothielle to get in as a Gardevoir Echo but it makes sense when you realise, along with the inevitable Gen 7 Pokemon that would make a Pokemon for every single generation (Gen 6 Greninja, Gen 5 Gothielle, Gen 4 Lucario, Gen 3 Gardevoir, Gen 2 Pichu, Gen 1 all 151 of 'em)

As for Mario 2 it could either be Paper Mario or, it could be Smash 64 METAL Mario who is listed as an echo but has Smash 64 Mario's moveset and weighs a tonne.

It could be spitballing but I now I'm more hopeful then I've ever been.

(Now we just need Roll as a Mega Man Echo and Smash Ultimate has the main cast of my webcomic ^_^)
 

Dr. Jojo Phantasma

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If this leaks up true, I would find it hilarious how we are speculating who Gardevoir would be an echo of, but she gets one of her own. :p
 

Kirby Dragons

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BTW, I almost have a Gardevoir in Pokemon Diamond. After revisiting the Pokemon League and beating every trainer except Cynthia (I'm surprised I beat Lucian), I got my Kirlia up to level 29.
 

Guybrush20X6

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BTW, I almost have a Gardevoir in Pokemon Diamond. After revisiting the Pokemon League and beating every trainer except Cynthia (I'm surprised I beat Lucian), I got my Kirlia up to level 29.
Cool beans ^_^

I have a Gardevoir on my team if the game allows it.

My current one is a male by the name of Gabrielle. Currently levelling him up to take on Necrozma.

I wonder what kind of moveset Gardevoir and Gothitelle could share. Maybe I'll take a look at their learnsets and see if something clicks.
 

KMDP

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You can count me among the Gardevoir Supporters. It's one of my favourite Pokémon.
Cool beans ^_^

I have a Gardevoir on my team if the game allows it.

My current one is a male by the name of Gabrielle. Currently levelling him up to take on Necrozma.

I wonder what kind of moveset Gardevoir and Gothitelle could share. Maybe I'll take a look at their learnsets and see if something clicks.
Lucario is the Pokémon I will always find a way to shoe-horn into my party. :laugh:
 

TCT~Phantom

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Seeing as how echos can now borrow from multiple sources, I can see Garde borrowing from Mewtwo for most attacks and for a few that it could not do involving the tail it can use Zelda’s animations.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Well I've gone all in and made a Gothitelle thread too. Maybe counting our Torchics before they hatch but what the hey.
 

KMDP

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Well, I'm glad I posted in this thread then. ;)

I'll keep an eye on the Gothitelle thread until the count is done.
 

Anop

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Hey guys! Can I join the Gardevoir support list? I honestly had 0 hope but with this new leak I can believe a little bit! So to be 100% sure, she wasn´t shown as a pokeball pokemon yet right?

Oh man it would be hype to have both Gardevoir and Gothitelle, it would shock a lot of people but it kinda makes sense to represnt every pokemon gen for the Ultimate edition.
 

zferolie

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Hmm I never thought that Gardevoir could actually happen, but if that 1 leaker was right and not just lucky in his guesses... then maybe she has a shot. I wouldn't mind her joining the roster, and she could be a very cool pokemon choice, a very different psychic type in the game so far. almost a pure phsycic unlike mewtwo and ness/lucas.

Gothitelle as her echo... interesting. could work honestly.
 

HairMythe

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Indeed, she wasn't shown as a pokéball pokémon yet.
You can count me in as a supporter as well. It's one of my favorite pokémon actually so I'd be glad to play her in smash.

Btw, I was wondering, if we consider both the vergeben/loz18 leaks and the Gardevoir leak are compatible, does such a scenario actually rules out a gen 7 Pokémon ? Wouldn't having a hot pokémon make Gardevoir, and especialy Gothitelle more acceptable ? It would also be even more in line with the "Everyone is here" theme. Is there any reason to rule out this possibility other than "3 poké reps is too much" ?
 

zferolie

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Indeed, she wasn't shown as a pokéball pokémon yet.
You can count me in as a supporter as well. It's one of my favorite pokémon actually so I'd be glad to play her in smash.

Btw, I was wondering, if we consider both the vergeben/loz18 leaks and the Gardevoir leak are compatible, does such a scenario actually rules out a gen 7 Pokémon ? Wouldn't having a hot pokémon make Gardevoir, and especialy Gothitelle more acceptable ? It would also be even more in line with the "Everyone is here" theme. Is there any reason to rule out this possibility other than "3 poké reps is too much" ?
I know Vergeben leaks, but not familiar with loz18. what has they said?

And well... Gardevior is very popular, for both pure and not so pure reasons. I would like her and Gothitelle as pokemon choices, and if we don't get a gen 7 rep I think she would be very likely, as I am 100% sure that we are getting a pokemon.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Don't forget, Pokemon did get multiple unique characters in the same game before.

Pikachu and Jigglypuff in 64
Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard and Lucario in Brawl

Only game to get a single Pokemon was 4 with Greninja.
 

HairMythe

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I know Vergeben leaks, but not familiar with loz18. what has they said?
Not much really, and nothing related to Pokémon. The leaks are tied because of how very compatible they are and how it seems they communicate to double check their respective sources.

Don't forget, Pokemon did get multiple unique characters in the same game before.
This is exactly what I'm thinking about. It'd make 4 gen represented at once with only two originals, an echo, and a veteran. Talk about being efficient.
 

zferolie

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I saw this video just now and he brings up good points about Gardevior being likely.


Sakurai got luckly guessing Greninja was gonna be the popular one. its possible he didn't want to guess for gen 7, and saving that for DLC. Another thing people have been asking for is other gens being represented in smash. So Sakurai could have looked for a popular pokemon from gen 3 or 5, that also could have an echo from the other generation. Gardevoir and Gothitelle are really your only choices that fit that bill.

I think we are getting a new pokemon, 100%. And we will see that pokemon in the next normal direct, most likely at the end of this month or start of september. Why? Because it seems like they use these smash directs to put out the super hype ones, or ones that need more detail/has a new stage tied to them. A pokemon would not be a super hype one, so saving it for a surprise trailer at the end of a normal direct would be perfect. And since Sakurai seems to love the idea of echos now to beef out the roster and give more rep, having that 1 trailer show a character WITH an echo fits more. So a Gardevoir trailer would be quite fitting.

Not sure what you could do with the trailer that shows off more then just pokemon though, but sakurai would know how to do it
 

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I'm imagining a trailer with Pokemon trainer fighting Lucario in Gen 7's Battle Royale when Lucario gets LARIAT'd out of nowhere and "Incenaroar spins to win!" (never mind that was a dark move against a fighting steel type, we're working on anime logic here were Dark type vs Machamp is curb stomp for the 4 armed one) then after some more gameplay show off, we cut back to Incenaroar in an even fight with Charizard (for Gen 1 gets special treatment) when the two are attacked by Moonblast and Dark Pulse. Then reveals Gardevoir and Gothitelle both at once.

And during their gameplay footage there's a 7 player match and they're lined up like Pikachu, Pichu, Gardevoir, Lucario, Gothitelle, Greninja and Incenaroar.

I'd prefer another Gen 7 Pokemon but I think this trailer works well.
 
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RileyXY1

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I'm imagining a trailer with Pokemon trainer fighting Lucario in Gen 7's Battle Royale when Lucario gets LARIAT'd out of nowhere and "Incenaroar spins to win!" (never mind that was a dark move against a fighting steel type, we're working on anime logic here were Dark type vs Machamp is curb stomp for the 4 armed one) then after some more gameplay show off, we cut back to Incenaroar in an even fight with Charizard (for Gen 1 gets special treatment) when the two are attacked by Moonblast and Dark Pulse. Then reveals Gardevoir and Gothitelle both at once.

And during their gameplay footage there's a 7 player match and they're lined up like Pikachu, Pichu, Gardevoir, Lucario, Gothitelle and Incenaroar.

I'd prefer another Gen 7 Pokemon but I think this trailer works well.
You forgot Greninja.
 

Guybrush20X6

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You forgot Greninja.
Not anymore thanks to revisionist history.

Also realised, if this is all true, we'll have more psychic Pokemon in Smash than Electric. How nutty is that?
 
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HairMythe

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Sakurai got luckly guessing Greninja was gonna be the popular one. its possible he didn't want to guess for gen 7, and saving that for DLC.
I liked this vidéo, however I didn't really like that particular point, and feel it is slightly biaised. I actually don't think a gen 7 starter is that risky. The starters are usualy quite popular while they're still hot and even if the least popular one was to get in smash, it would get a good reception overall. If Primarina is not getting much speculation, it's mainly because of her body type, not because of people hating her. Some may be salty for Decidueye but well, even in 2016 Sakurai could be sure he wouldn't deliver an unwanted nobody. If there was risks in a gen7 newcomer, it would be Mimikyu or Lycanroc if anything.
However the point isn't invalid actually. Waiting to see which gen7 character will become popular before making it would be a wise decision after all.

The same can be said about the Gardevoir/Gothitelle pair, especially the latter, as she would lock the gen5 slot out of an original and liked pokémon. Some people may also dislike to have the awaited Gen7 Pokémon delayed for Gardevoir and Gothitelle honestly. Adding Gothitelle would be, in my opinion, much more risky than any starter. Not that I don't hate Sakurai playing daredevil with characters additions, though.
 

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You know, I wasn't interested in the idea of a playable Gardevoir in Smash Bros. but after thinking about it... it could be an awesome idea. Here's what I posted in the general speculation thread: (link to the post)

So I've recently discovered the Gothitelle thing, and it made me think about the prospect of getting a playable Pokémon from every generation thanks to Echo fighters.

I'm sorry but I don't like the idea of playable Gothitelle in Smash, I don't have a specific grudge or dislike of this Pokémon in particular, it just... would stick like a sore thumb in the playable Pokémon roster, it really wouldn't feel like a Nintendo All-Star at all. But I have another idea for a playable Pokémon from every gen so far.

First of course bring us a unique gen VII Pokémon newcomer, then add two Echo fighters to represent Hoenn and Unova respectively. This makes me think I half-jokingly speculated a few weeks ago about Victini as an Echo of Pikachu. They roughly have the same body shape, Victini just has a thinner body between the head and legs, and they have the same Pokédex size. Here's how I imagine it:
  • Thunder Jolt becomes Incinerate: Victini takes the same pose as Pikachu, but the projectile is a fireball that works like Mario's custom big fireball.
  • Skull Bash becomes Zen Headbutt and is functionally the same.
  • Quick Attack remains the same.
  • Thunder becomes Searing Shot: Victini takes the same pose as Pikachu then powerful flames surround its body and damage anyone nearby.
  • Final Smash becomes V-Create and is basically a clone of Marth's and Lucina's Final Smash except a fiery V appears instead of a hit point counter.
In addition, Pikachu's electric effects, asides from Quick Attack and the pummel, would be replaced by flame effects. When I thought about Victini as a Pikachu Echo earlier I thought it would probably not work because of the animation differences but Dark Samus suggests that they're being a bit more liberal with animation changes that I expected them to be, as Victini's animations would certainly be less intensive to differenciate from Pikachu's that Dark Samus, basically it would be giving it a different idle stance as well as walking and running animations (which would certainly be floating like DS as suggested by the datamined animations from SM).

The cons are that Victini has longer arms, which would make it a bit harder to port over Pikachu's animations. I also had a shorter tail, but this would probably only affect the up smash's range.

And for the Hoenn rep Gardevoir is good, but rather than a unique newcomer, make it an Echo of Mewtwo. They have roughly the same body shape and abilities (Gardevoir can learn all of Mewtwo's special moves from Smash), so it could work. The big con is that Gardevoir lacks a tail, although the dress-like feature could be a workable substitute, at least down tilt, up tilt and up air: I admit it would look weird on forward tilt, back air and especially down throw. For other attributes, while Mewtwo uses dark magic aesthetics, Gardevoir would instead use light magic similar to Zelda, and could have Shadow Ball replaced with Moonblast (while being functionally similar). And for the Final Smash Gardevoir uses Hyper Beam, which works as a clone of Pokémon Trainer's Final Smash. It might sound generic, but don't forget that it would be a reference to Mega Gardevoir's Pixilate ability, and it would be colored in pink as a reference to this. It can also be more functionally similar to Mewtwo's FS if you replace Hyper Beam with Hyper Voice, but it seems a bit less hype.

I said earlier that with the exception of Dark Samus all potential echo ideas I generally saw as nice bonus rather than something I want, but I think I've found new echo fighters I really want. It would be such an amazing way to have all regions get playable representation! If they get revealed in a trailer with a gen VII Pokémon newcomer and a Pokémon boss like Guzzlord I think I would be incredibly hyper hyper and it would be a Pokémon fan's wet dream when it comes to Smash. Those who are not genwunners anyway
tl;dr instead of Gothitelle for the Unova rep include Victini as an Echo of Pikachu and make Gardevoir an Echo of Mewtwo; half of Mewtwo's tail moves could be substitued by Gardevoir's dress-like features, and Mewtwo's dark magic effects would be replaced with light magic.

Also two things I didn't mention in this quite long post:
  • Rather than giving Gardevoir Confusion, it could be possible to give it instead Reflect like in its Poké Ball appearances in previous Smash games. It can't work as a command grab but would be able to reflect projectiles from anywhere including from behind.
  • Forward tilt and back air, which wouldn't look right by replacing the tail with the dress, would instead be cloned from Lucario, while down throw would be cloned from Greninja.
I've received no response in the Smash general discussion thread yet, but what do you think about it?
 
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HairMythe

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That would feel a lot cleaner than Gothitelle honestly. Victini is way more hype. Gardevoir feels a tad clunky as Mewtwo's Echo. Not irrealisable, but clunky nonetheless. Maybe there's a better Pokemon in gen 3 suited to be an echo ? *Looks at Pokédex* Nevermind. Except Slaking as DDD's echo there's nothing obvious. Medicham as Lucario's echo. A lot less hype than Gardevoir, but our favorite furry could use an echo without aura.

I'll add there's a pokémon thread somewhere out there and that our conversation is setting off to something more general. Might be good to bring the topic there actually.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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One move that would be really cool for Gardevoir (and Gothitelle) to use would be Future Sight.

Placing a trap on the stage that then goes off after a set amount of time with a BOOM!
 

Dr. Jojo Phantasma

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Honestly, Gothitelle would be a bit weird, I mean you would have
Pikachu- Grand Mascot of Pokemon
Pokemon Trainer- Represents the trainer mechanic and has the iconic Kanto starters
Jigglypuff- At the time she was popular in the anime, and well she has original 12 status
Mewtwo- Iconic legendary Pokemon
Pichu- Pre-evo form of Pikachu who is the grand mascot
Lucario- Face of Gen 4
Greninja- Alola starter
Gardevoir- Popular Gen 3 Pokemon
Gen 7 Pokemon- Most likely will be a starter like Incineroar or an UB like Buzzwole.
And then you would have Gothitellle who is just a random Pokemon in Gen 5, lol. But tbf, it is a smart way to get Gen 5 representation in there. Plus I like Gothitelle so I am all for it.

EP780_Gardevoir_y_Gothitelle.png
 
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Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
You know, I wasn't interested in the idea of a playable Gardevoir in Smash Bros. but after thinking about it... it could be an awesome idea. Here's what I posted in the general speculation thread: (link to the post)



tl;dr instead of Gothitelle for the Unova rep include Victini as an Echo of Pikachu and make Gardevoir an Echo of Mewtwo; half of Mewtwo's tail moves could be substitued by Gardevoir's dress-like features, and Mewtwo's dark magic effects would be replaced with light magic.

Also two things I didn't mention in this quite long post:
  • Rather than giving Gardevoir Confusion, it could be possible to give it instead Reflect like in its Poké Ball appearances in previous Smash games. It can't work as a command grab but would be able to reflect projectiles from anywhere including from behind.
  • Forward tilt and back air, which wouldn't look right by replacing the tail with the dress, would instead be cloned from Lucario, while down throw would be cloned from Greninja.
I've received no response in the Smash general discussion thread yet, but what do you think about it?
Right, I forgot to respond in the main thread to that.
I think it could theoretically work, but the problem with Gardevoir being a Mewtwo echo is that their body types don't overlap as well. Gardevoir and Gothitelle get away with it due to them both being tall and slender enough that their hitboxes will be pretty much identical, but Mewtwo's legs stick out pretty far on either side along with the tail having it's own hurtbox, so they'll probably have to add the hurtboxes to her entire dress and therefore have to animate that too, which is still probably less work than making Garde unique. Other than that it all works well enough. Also down throw can be taken from Rosalina or Palutena instead, and forward tilt and bair can both be taken from Rosi too.
 
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