MookieRah's Lucario Impressions: Updated 2/7/08 @ 3:45 PM

[DeuceBlade]

Lucario will feel the wrath of Samus' bair if he tries to short hop dair me. jk lol.. but good update, makes me wonder if lucario will spawn future techniques.

 

[DarkDragoon]

-Ignore Accidental Double Post-

 

[DarkDragoon]

=( Awww, I discovered that DAir Shffl already!

All the lag on this attack wears off by the time you begin falling again, and there is very little start up.

I didn't expressly SAY Shffl, because there isn't an L Cancel, but...still...
>.> Old news!
Heh, kidding.
Anyhow though, DAir->NAir, give it a shot. Since Noir in (his AT topic) reported that aerials cancel out if the first few frames of the attack are done right before hitting the ground or something, so that would put extra pressure on the opponents shield, or knock them away with some damage if they come out of it. If they dodge roll "behind" you, the NAir is a 360 rotation, so they're hit, and can only dodge away, which will be met with a Lag-less Aura Sphere.

=X Hey! Look what you're getting me to do! Spill pieces of my MetaGame Plan.
Stop it! =P.

Also, Lucario's changes in power and knock back is NOT at all detrimental to any game plan at all. Infact, its similar to what will eventually become PT's play style, in that the switching of the pokemon forces the opponent to be well versed in not 1, but 3 characters all at the same time.

However, for Lucario, its even harder, as he has ~5 Different multipliers, meaning he can have well over 3 viable strategies based on his current damage count. Once you hit 200%, you'll obviously be on the defensive, but at the same time, so will your opponent, fearing the combo of the massive power and knockback, and the huge aura sphere you're holding in your hand.

BLARGH! Again with my revealing MetaGame Pieces.

Mookie, I need your AIM Name or something similar, I wouldn't mind discussing with you.

--Sorry about being sorta "hyper" in this post, the meds I'm taking are sorta like..."WOOO!"-ish.--

-DD

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Wow Lucario looks promising. I'm most likely going to main him.

 

[PyrasTerran]

I am ecstatic that the character i wanted to main from the beginning is turning into such a great character.

 

[2.72]

So basically Lucario can jump and immediately dair and then land with no lag. It's sick people. Real sick.

Aye, that is very, very sick indeed. It looks like it could be like Falco's shield pressuring combined with something akin to float canceling. Amazing.

Gah, I have no idea who I want to play! I'll probably figure it out eventually.

 

[kaid]

I hereby nominate the act of abusing the rising Dair, with the name Pillar Canceling, as a combination of Falco's Pillar and Peach's float cancel.

 

[Micahc]

I second Kaids motion. Lucarios damage multiplier seems SIIIICK.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I hereby nominate the act of abusing the rising Dair, with the name Pillar Canceling, as a combination of Falco's Pillar and Peach's float cancel.

I already named his USmash Aura Pillar ;D!
His DAir is Aura Stomp =P.
So, call it Stomp Canceling ^_^v.
-DD

 

[kaid]

Stomp canceling sounds too much like Gannondorf. Pillar is Falco's move.

 

[Sudai]

Woo, I got in the first post without meaning to~ :o

As for the DAir technique, why not just call it a momentum cancel? I'm sure someone will find another move that does something similar for other characters and we can just use "momentum cancel" to cover all bases.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Stomp canceling sounds too much like Gannondorf. Pillar is Falco's move.

When you look at him do it, you see he clearly creates Aura under his feet, floats on it, and stomps it twice. Its much closer to Gannon's than it is to Falco's DAir.

Woo, I got in the first post without meaning to~ :o

As for the DAir technique, why not just call it a momentum cancel? I'm sure someone will find another move that does something similar for other characters and we can just use "momentum cancel" to cover all bases.

Well, there is already the "AMC" or Air Momentum Cancel, which I told Mookie about today in our chat.

Basically, after being hit, as you can observe various NPCs doing, you simply air dodge, and cancel out a portion of the momentum you have. "AMC" is when you pair it with a DI towards the stage, and even at High %s, you're not sent very far.

Now, we COULD call it a "BMC" for "Blue Momentum Cancel, or "LMC" for "Lucario Momentum Cancel", since Lucario most likely CAN AMC, then do a DAir, completely stopping ALL momentum, and barely losing any vertical distance for it, getting the second jump and Extreme Speed Back.

BAH! I hate revealing tidbits of my MetaGame before its done.

Stop it all of you ~_~...
-DD

 

[kaid]

Wait... Dairing gives your jump back?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

DD, no offense, but you really shouldn't be here if you believe that your own private metagame should be top secret. This is a forum for discussing these techniques. The best players are not #1 simply because they keep their tricks secret. They simply play the best. Where would you be if everyone kept advanced techniques secret?

@kaid, where did you get that impression?

 

[raphtmarqui]

DD, no offense, but you really shouldn't be here if you believe that your own private metagame should be top secret. This is a forum for discussing these techniques. The best players are not #1 simply because they keep their tricks secret. They simply play the best. Where would you be if everyone kept advanced techniques secret?

Exactly, whats up with all that secracy bull$hit? You don't see anyone else hiding techniques. Everyone is going to find out eventually anyways/

 

[Indignant]

I think he means "until he's done" like he said. I think it's more about not looking like an idiot than secrecy. He could say a few things that seem one way but might not actually be that way and end up looking foolish. Keeping metagame bits secret is silly anyway because people will pick it up from how you play...unless you aren't done yet, as is the case. He wants, probably, to develop techniques in secret, absolutely crush someone to unveil them and THEN teach them...or something similar.

 

[MookieRah]

LOL @ people jumping to all sorts of silly conclusions. I really doubt that DD had any sort of malicious plans of withholding information. Seriously, the game isn't out in the US yet, he's probably just building a game plan and waiting till it's release which is what I'm doing.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Buzz been the only one to actually play Brawl so far? I'm thinking that no matter what DD and I cook up, Buzz is the only one who would have an idea as to how things would truly work. I know that anything I discover through vids I will relay to Buzz to try it out when he gets to play again.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Oh, well if hes just waiting to reveal his plan when the game hits the US then thats fine. He was just making it seem like he wanted to keep some silly secret Lucario metagame all to himself forever or something/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr0mNzm8bWs
Check out 1:24 when Lucario hits Snake with his Up Smash. Look how long after Snake connects with the attack. Lucario's Up Smash might have the same properties Mewtwos's Up Smash had after all. Snake was also kinda far away from the visible hitbox too.

 

[MookieRah]

Holy crap, you are right. Wow, so his upsmash lasts a LONG, and at a certain point it hits a larger area that it did previously. The only big difference being that Lucario's upsmash hits only once.

Also, it seems like EVERY one of his smashes has a crazily deceptive hitbox. Lucario's fsmash actually hits quite high, as it was stopping Snake's aerial offenses with ease in that match.

 

[DarkDragoon]

LOL @ people jumping to all sorts of silly conclusions. I really doubt that DD had any sort of malicious plans of withholding information. Seriously, the game isn't out in the US yet, he's probably just building a game plan and waiting till it's release which is what I'm doing.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Buzz been the only one to actually play Brawl so far? I'm thinking that no matter what DD and I cook up, Buzz is the only one who would have an idea as to how things would truly work. I know that anything I discover through vids I will relay to Buzz to try it out when he gets to play again.

**My post was longer than this, but then my internet died out on me... =(*
Thanks for the defense @_@.

My "MetaGame Plan" is just that, a plan, potentially "Lucario 1.0". I have a few friend with Brawl, most of which assist me in my "studies". I'll finish it up sometime this week, and give it to people like Buzz, have them review it and such. ^_^ I don't plan on just showing up and owning with Lucario, because that wouldn't be fun, and for all I know, it'll suck if I don't get any feedback on it before use. =P The Guide/FAQ I made is there to help, not to lead wrongly.

And according to my friends, "BMC" does work. It does not restore any jumps, Kraid, it just stops you from flying farther over any more than you need to, which is a bit more than most characters will using "AMC" alone.

Sorry if I seemed sorta stupid about things, my med seem to be taking control away from my brain. It'll be fixed shortly.

However, even more deceptive seems to be Lucario's DSmash Box.

I highlighted Lucario's Fists, and Snake himself. Happened around 00:56 of the above linked video.

I think I might start Highlighting potential hitboxes to pass the time.
I'll post more later, then add to the FAQ if we like it.

-DD

 

[Sudai]

DD, the DSmash isn't that deceptive. If you look there's a little blue ring that travels a little bit above the ground and that is touching Snake. I'm guessing that's what causes the hitbox to extend out the way it does.

 

[DarkDragoon]

=/ Yea, but I thought those little rings were just from his Aura...
and the blue outline over snake was from the aura's "fire" or whatnot.
I dunno, it seemed new and exciting to me =P.
::EDIT::
Darnit Mookie, not being on AIM so I can ask you things T_T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ymEDwzfVQQ
Anyhow, look around 1:49, after Lucario gets BAired by Marth over the edge.
On his recovery, it seems one of two things has happened:
1)You can "bounce"(~1:51), which reduces the landing lag, evidenced by the immediate operation of his shield.
2)Bounce or not, low lag, although I doubt it, because I've seen some lag around 5:05 where he crouches down after landing the move.

-DD

 

[Shuyin]

Does his D-Air Spike? Does he have any known spikes?

 

[DarkDragoon]

It COULD Spike, if you angle it right.
And by right, I mean like, completely above the target...
but perhaps its just a meteor?
-DD

 

[Agosta44]

I have a question about his SHHL, or whatever you call it (I feel like a total nub right now, I'll google it later):

What if you Short hop into the down air, and force palm grab them right when you land? It can break through shields, right?

Just trying to think up some combos : \

 

[Itakio]

I think my post a few pages back went unnoticed, but is certainly worth seeing. Here it is again.



If you look at about 1:32 in this video, you can see Lucario's back throw, and I must say, it looks insane. It almost kills Olimar at only 76%!

Edit - nevermind, it was noted on the first page. But in response to that. Doesn't DI in the same direction of the knockback do nothing in Melee? I guess it could be different in Brawl. But another point that should be considered is that there isn't really time to think about which way to DI if someone grabs and throws you immediately.

 

[Ichida]

This article is what made Lucario my main. <3

 

[MookieRah]

Edit - nevermind, it was noted on the first page. But in response to that. Doesn't DI in the same direction of the knockback do nothing in Melee? I guess it could be different in Brawl. But another point that should be considered is that there isn't really time to think about which way to DI if someone grabs and throws you immediately.

Nah, when you DI the same direction you go even further that way. You can tell by his trajectory that it was a DI to the left and he was thrown left.

 

[Itakio]

Wait, I think I can explain this. I've looked around and when Lucario does his back throw in most videos, there is a slight delay before the opponent goes flying, but in the one with Olimar he tossed him away very quickly. So then, couldn't what we saw in the Olimar video just be Lucario's side B grab?

 

[MookieRah]

*Shrug* Who knows. I've yet to see video confirmation that his side B grabs so I don't know how it looks or whatnot.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Lucario's side-B can indeed grab in the right situation, but it is VERY hard to land... for me... >_<

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Hello again guys.

I just figured I'd leave you some tidbits of some testing I was doing. Most of this, I don't think you have posted.

Lucario just keeps looking better and better.

Lucario's priority is INSANE!!!!!

We tested some of his tilts. His u-tilt cancels out Bowser's F-smash and Ike's f-tilt. You get that clink noise. His d-tilt and f-tilt act the same way, canceling out some smash attacks and powerful tilts. They also have very quick start-up time and very small lag time. His tilts are GREAT! I just can't help thinking Sheik when I use them.

His dair is also "too good" as you already know. We have yet to find a move that out prioritizes it. It can be out reached, but not out prioritized from what we can tell. The fact that it slows down all downward momentum means that it can be used in dodging incoming u-airs from the enemy and used in recovering somewhat. On top of the auto L canceling it can do already, we have one sexy move.

All his aerials seem to have a huge amount of priority and power. His aerials get insane knock back wise at higher percentages. If anything good came out of Mewtwo being axed, it was that we got a character with great priority this time around. As all you Mewtwo people know, Mewtwo had so little priority that it was saddening. (No offense to you Mewtwo guys of course. )

His recovery is good distance wise, but sucks start up wise. Just make sure you have a second to get it off before you are hit. He can be hit out of the start-up quite easily. Also, it is imperative that you get a ledge. If not, GET AS FAR ONTO THE STAGE AS POSSIBLE. His lag time after an Extreme Speed is horrible. Extreme Speeds bend ability makes it useful for recovering mindgames. You can almost do a 90 degree movement. Not quite, but close. This makes it useful for faking like you are going on stage, and then going for the ledge or the side of the stage and wall clinging. You can wall cling for as many jumps as you have. That is 3 if you want. If you use the Extreme Speed to wall cling however, you cannot use Extreme Speed again until you touch the stage.

Down B in the air does the same reversal motion, but the retaliation goes down and at an angle. So it can be used off the edge of the stage, it is just not as effective. If used above the stage, he will automatically teleport back down to the stage. Useful for an escape tactic.

Forward B, from what I can tell, cannot grab in the air. It is great to use as an aerial though. I love to use it against shielding opponents. They get so frustrated when they expect a dash attack and get a Force Palm. It is also pretty powerful.

His damage meter mechanic is truly insane. I overkilled my friend Jeff's Wolf at 60% with a forward smash uncharged when Lucario was at 180%!!!!!! He flew like he was hit with a Bomb, no joke. (We play with items off of course, the bomb is just for comparison.) I also killed a Kirby at 60% with an u-air at 160%.

Just from looking at the way he plays, his damage meter mechanic, and how well he counters some, Lucario looks to be no less than mid tier at the worst. Better, high. At best, even top.

I did however, find another horrible match-up. Lucario vs Jigglypuff....... It is much like Captain Falcon vs Marth in Melee. It can go either way, but it is no fun at all. Marth and Jigglypuff seem to be his only troubles so far.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Any requests for trying something out, let me know that as well. I will do what I can.

I hope to have a video up really soon. We just have to find the time to make some. This Friday, I think.

 

[dguy6789]

Very cool stuff Blood Hawk.

 

[MookieRah]

I did however, find another horrible match-up. Lucario vs Jigglypuff....... It is much like Captain Falcon vs Marth in Melee. It can go either way, but it is no fun at all. Marth and Jigglypuff seem to be his only troubles so far.

This matchup was gay for Mewtwo as well. Patience is key, so I'm assuming that the matchup is probably more even than you think, it's just that it's incredibly frustrating.

Great info Blood Hawk, it's very much appreciated.

 

[kaid]

Can Lucario use moves after using airdodge or ^B?
Can he use B moves after using Nair?
Does the Nair disable effect end when you land, or does it keep up the next time you jump?

 

[MookieRah]

I don't believe he can perform moves after his up B, but everyone can perform moves after their air dodge.

From what I've heard about nair it seems like you can't really perform any actions in the air after you use it, and yeah, it resets when you land.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Lucario looks awesome. A lot cooler than Mewtwo.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Can Lucario use moves after using airdodge or ^B?

No, he is un-able to do anything after an up B. He is helpless until he either lands, wall clings, or grabs an edge.

Can he use B moves after using Nair?

He can use B moves after a nair.

I am not sure if I got hit however, so being damaged might stop this. More testing is required. I will get back to you on it.

Does the Nair disable effect end when you land, or does it keep up the next time you jump?

Nair ends when you hit the ground. It is another auto L canceling move. The lag is very minimal if any. So you could nair into your opponent with proper spacing, and then short hop nair upon hitting the ground. You would be much better off approaching with a short hopped dair or a force palm if they are shielding.

 

[MookieRah]

Man, you guys need to check out these vids: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142417

A Lucario player that actually uses aerials correctly! Yay. Good stuff. Also, I've updated the main page.

 

[Agosta44]

Edit: nevermind, already been answered.