Monty Python's Flying Mafia - SCUM VICTORY, Vult/Doop win the game!

[Dooplissity]

@Ryu: What about Nabe?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Ryu: What about Nabe?

Not really prefered over Gheb and if I did a compromise lynch having it end up on Kouse would be better. Nabe kind of a third wheel not as interested in.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

#HBC | Nabe your like on my post was liking support for a gheb wagon..... right? if Dooplissity and #HBC | Red Ryu are on board like they should be (based on their posts - if they back out then they are #exposed as gheb's buddy ), we have enough votes to lynch. i for one am not going to let scum!gheb buddy me all game just to trick the rest of you into quicklynching me while I'm V/LA again. nope nope nope[/QUOTE]
The like was at your joke. Wouldn't go Gheb toDay outside of crunch, there's not enough.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

EBWOP:

#HBC | Nabe your like on my post was liking support for a gheb wagon..... right? if Dooplissity and #HBC | Red Ryu are on board like they should be (based on their posts - if they back out then they are #exposed as gheb's buddy ), we have enough votes to lynch. i for one am not going to let scum!gheb buddy me all game just to trick the rest of you into quicklynching me while I'm V/LA again. nope nope nope

The like was at your joke. Wouldn't nudge Gheb toDay outside of crunch, there's not enough.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

To express my feelings of his post, it's easier to convey why I dislike Ryu's slot. Me stating he gets no points is because I want to show that that post gets him no credit for being a thought that has come much too late. I state it's fake since I don't believe he'd have that thought if he supported me early game, liked my #71, and did not even question me. He had me as null it seemed, but he never tried to develop a read on me either. Why did you ask me this? How do you read Fandango?

But you're expressing your feelings to Ryu. Why did Ryu need to be told that you think he seems "fake" and isn't accruing "points", when leaving it for a lynching case shortly thereafter would give him more time and opportunity to post more fake things and screw up more point opportunities? Telling Ryu that he's fake and not getting any points isn't very far removed from a scum read and only seems to serve to inform that scum read that his play is bad. Hence, why I asked.

Did informing Ryu have a beneficial effect on what you got out of him following this, and consequently to the Ryu segment of #274? Did you expect that it would?

I don't want to nudge Fand into this discussion, but I don't think there's anything immediately concerning there. Would crunch, wouldn't lunch.

 

[Vult Redux]

gheb's play reminds me a lot of Earthbound Mafia where we had each other as mutually town. In that game scum!gheb took advantage of me being V/LA and got obvtown!vig!slayinggheb'sbuddies!me compromise lynched before I could claim. I see Kouse in the same vulnerable position i was in and gheb pushing that while also mysteriously deciding I'm town (seriously, everyone should go read that post, it's a huge red flag) makes me concerned.

i should clarify that i think gheb has given okay responses to most things i've brought up. for example, it's true that "well he's new, so we shouldn't look his Kouse's behavior at the same level as the other players" is really the only argument for keeping Kouse (at best he is dead weight). However, it's a really good reason (imo) in this case. Gheb really looking at specifics/facts rather than the big picture... which I'm not convinced is what I should expect from town!gheb.

also fwiw dead weight players are really good vig bait... though i can't say anything about the relevance of that given it's a 9p setup.

ranmaru i haven't fully read RR but i did see that he and I are/were on the same page regarding gheb. I also made the post yesterday partly to scarepressure gheb and partly to test if RR was going to follow through on a read that he posted... which he did. for those reasons i like him atm

vote: gheb

this puts gheb at L-2 fyi. I'm really not enthusiastic about a Kouse lynch but I'm less enthusiastic about a no lynch obviously. I remember not liking Fand a few days ago but I haven't kept up on him so I'm not sure yet if I'd be for or against that. I know Doopliss wants Nabe and has brought up good points iirc Nabe's play feels like it matches his meta though so idk.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

It's very simple psychology. When you tell someone to expect something, the mental impact of it is lessened. Telling the Town you will possibly fake interactions means that if/when you do, it jumps out less and is less likely to get called out in the thread (or even consciously noticed) in the first place.

But that's what playing brownie townie is -- a series of empty interactions (RVS), which people force context upon later to justify what's usually a shot-in-the-dark lynch. If you pressure me to play brownie townie, then you are expecting me to provide those interactions that you see as being necessary to the game. Naturally, asking for such interactions would make it hard to "call them out", because they were asked for... but that has nothing to do with what I've said at all.

Where your definition differs from mine is that I deem those D1 interactions as "fake", or intrinsically empty, vapid. From my perspective, you're saying that if I provide these basic town interactions (that are ultimately empty) after being pressured to do so, then that is somehow an "out", and runs contrary to what you'd expect a townie to do.

You're probably not saying that, since it has a fundamental flaw: you do expect townies to provide interactions for you to read. But my statement of it in this way is an attempt to put what you're saying in terms of what I'm saying, in hopes that what I'm saying becomes clear to you, because apparently it's not.

What I'm saying is this: if pressured to act brownie townie, I will, but that's ****ing stupid. For one thing, it's much more valuable to observe my current trajectory and see if I crash and burn, since in acting this way I'm clearly acting with some purpose or intent to what I'm doing, that you can conceivably hang me on later if it doesn't pan out.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The Vote Count

Kouseband (2) - Spak, Gheb
Volt Redux (1) - Kousband
Nabe (1) - Dooplissity
Red Ryu (1) - Ranmaru
Gheb (3) - Fandangox, Red Ryu, Vult Redux

the NOT VOTING Count

- Nabe


Pretty sure on this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nabe where you thinking about going?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

gheb's play reminds me a lot of Earthbound Mafia where we had each other as mutually town. In that game scum!gheb took advantage of me being V/LA and got obvtown!vig!slayinggheb'sbuddies!me compromise lynched before I could claim. I see Kouse in the same vulnerable position i was in and gheb pushing that while also mysteriously deciding I'm town (seriously, everyone should go read that post, it's a huge red flag) makes me concerned.

The reach is strong with this one.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'd hit Gheb, I'd hit Kouse. Gheb moreso; shallow play, weird vibe.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

EBWOP: nudge

 

[ranmaru]

Spak Need your comments on recent events and would like an update on your reads. I know you got your teeth pulled out I don't remember if it was yesterday or today. Anyway please have something by today or tomorrow morning.

@Kouseband Where are you? Please post or replace out. Thanks.

 

[ranmaru]

Going to martial arts, I'll post when I get back. (I might play melee before getting back though)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

nudge Maven89 is deadline in just under 5 hours?

 

[Maven89]

No, Deadline is for midnight tomorrow

 

[Fandangox]

Reads:

Dooplisity: We've been on the same thought wavelenght through most of the game. He's trying to keep town focused on scumhunting. Townread.

Vult Redux: Can't get a solid read on this slot. He's got prescense on the thread, but I really can't get a grasp on this one. Null

Spak: Okay first off Defen's post about Ran's push on Kouse made a lot of sense to me. The replace was sudden and unexpected, but I do recall the slot said they'd be VLA. After that Spak has been mostly active, but hasn't had much direction in the thread. His case on Kousebound is pretty weak, he's assuming Kousebound is not posting because he's newbscum. Kousebound hasn’t posted enough for people to suggest the slot as anything other than a non-policy lynch, yet two people are pushing this slot. Null - Scumlean

Red Ryu: He started fine with his early game questions. Disappears after that. His interactions exchange with Ran makes me believe both are town. He’s got a point on Spak, which made me rethink that slot. Null - Town Lean.

Ranmaru: His start was VERY iffy, specially his 57, seemed just way too forced and I didn't like how he was treating the other players's actions considering it was still RVS. Some of his questions were also either pointless or stupid (asking me early game if I was hoping to get a read on Defen with my questioning, come on dude) After Ryu vs Ran however the slot looks a bit better, that exchange read to me like Town vs Town, specifically him asking Ryu liked his #71 seems to me like Ran genuinely trying to read the slot. Null - Town Lean.

Nabe: Classic Nabe. Would recommend as a policy lynch if he doesn't start actually helping out town most of his actions in this game have been reactive, only responding to people poking him, and not taking any initiative himself. Even that one post where he asked everyone to talk about “a topic” gets ignored when I asked him what he wanted to talk about. Then just goes to argue with Dooplisity on something mostly unrelated to this one game. If anyone has a vigshot unsure of who to use it on, he's a good candidate. Normally would be scum, but its nabe, so its hard to say. Null/vig bait.

Kousebound: Null. Not enough content to draw anything significant from this post.

Gheb: Obviously scum, at first his opinion on Ran and Kouse started the opposite of what it is now (although he did never scumread Ran fwiw) Also he has stated multiple times that Kouse is scum, yet his actual move was to go after me based on what he thinks is a scumate defending someone? ON DAY 1? He hasn’t even explained how Kouse is “Obscum” his whole case on me hinges on Kouse being scum WHEN WE LACK THIS INFORMATION. When Vult and I pressure him on that he STILL doesn’t explain why the **** Kouse is scum to him, BUT GOES ON TO EXPLAIN WHY HE GOING AFTER ME AND KOUSE IS THE LOGICAL THING SINCE HE SUSPECTS THEM, without once again, ELABORATING WHY HE THINKS KOUSE IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM.

 

[Fandangox]

Please vote Gheb for the presidential term of D1 to D1

 

[Fandangox]

That's not what I said, however. I said that scum can't do that if they intend to win, not that they never do it. It's an eggshell strategy. Of course, I'm working under the basic assumption that you think I'm smart enough / care enough to employ 10 minutes of my time to come up with a tenable strategy.


Let's spend as little time on bull**** as possible, by imagining the game you posit where I have an "out" for bad play.

- Nabe says, "I'll pretend I'm a brownie townie if people pressure me into it."
- Scum!Nabe gets pressured (presumably by Detective Inspector Dooplissity in this scenario)
- Scum!Nabe acts more townie to throw town off the scent
- Scum!Nabe takes heat for bad fake town play (nailed to the wall again by the Doopster)
- Scum!Nabe says, "It wasn't bad town play, it was bad fake town play!"
- Everybody says, "there's nothing we can do, he told us earlier he'd act like town..."
- justasplanned.jpg gets posted by Scum!Nabe in the scum chat, they all praise him
- Dooplissity frowns as he contemplates the failings of the justice system

You are over complicating this ****. All we want you to do is you get off your ass and do some scum hunting if you really are town.

 

[Fandangox]

#HBC | Nabe who is your lynch target today and why.

 

[ranmaru]

I like Fandango's reads. I will say I don't see how he genuinely thinks my questioning wrt Defen is dumb, as his persistence was bad. I think he is trying to force an explanation and says I should understand his perspective when I don't see it. "Its not complicated, she just gave the same answer" (which was correct, mind you)

I think he wanted a different answer but did not ask the right question. @Vult help me out here. I also still don't see how Doop sees this same thought process, if one of you can show it to me that would help me immensely.

Otherwise, at this point I think it is only a misundersranding and again, I like fans reads so far.

I would really like Spaks input here.

 

[Maven89]

@Kouseband has received a warning, he'll be replaced if he doesn't participate

 

[Fandangox]

I like Fandango's reads. I will say I don't see how he genuinely thinks my questioning wrt Defen is dumb, as his persistence was bad. I think he is trying to force an explanation and says I should understand his perspective when I don't see it. "Its not complicated, she just gave the same answer" (which was correct, mind you)

I think he wanted a different answer but did not ask the right question. @Vult help me out here. I also still don't see how Doop sees this same thought process, if one of you can show it to me that would help me immensely.

Otherwise, at this point I think it is only a misundersranding and again, I like fans reads so far.

I would really like Spaks input here.

Don't know what else to add about it other than what I already explained on my #154. To me defen's second response was the equivalent of someone being asked their reads yet they only give out the end result (town/scum, etc) without explaining why. I was trying to get a feel of that slot and the answer was pretty much he same to me. Maybe saying "you ignore the question" wasn't the right way to go about it, but on my head it served the same purpose.

 

[Fandangox]

Also I'm leaving to CEO tomorrow, so I will be V/LA till the 25th when I return late at night. I can read the thread on my phone, but I will be busy over the weekend.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nudge ranmaru , #285. Please make your third return to the thread since that post.
Vote: Red Ryu as inducement to acknowledge my presence.

Fandangox hi yeah I see you *waves* ooh yer wicked ay


Gheb wagon doesn't feel great, it seems like everybody is sitting on their hands waiting for deadline to pull votes.

 

[Spak]

I apologize if anything is unclear, but I'm still a little bit out of it after getting me teeth pulled.

Ran can die and I don't care what his alignment his, the way he has pushed a lot of slots is so trigger happy for blood I find it that anti town to not have any patience for players then proceed to ignore the actually players with no paper trail.

I think that Ran has just been trying to use his vote more progressively than normal to add pressure, and it's going way too far to say that Ran should die based off of focusing on people he finds scummy rather than people he doesn't see around as much.

S_Defenstration's slot on a reread has inconsistent reasoning and some really shallow reasoning to reach on Ran earlier.

Spak hasn't posted anything to really change my mind on this.

Vote: Spak

And yet you're accusing me of not considering a player's skill level while voting for them? I think that aside from the replace out (which she had a legit reason for, as I saw in the PM), she didn't really do anything I wouldn't expect from noob!Town.

I'd be all for seeing your slot dead with the stuff I reread and the garbage you are trying to use to say, "Ruy is scum because he didn't post in 2 hours" You don't even consider the actual irl scenario with me but give other slots a complete pass on this. Why? Because you saw me post earlier and then stop. Face it, that is exactly why you jumped on me. Call it OMGUS all you want, I do not like your play.

I don't know about Ran, but this wasn't ever the main concern about you this game. My main concern is that when someone has asked you for a read this game, you've given mostly whimpy gut reads and then have pretty much no evidence to support said reads. Then, when you're further questioned on them, you've given pretty bad reasoning that only looks at one aspect of a person's play, not the whole picture. You seem to be picking and choosing what you see in certain people to fit your read list, not analyzing slots so that you can place them on your list appropriately.

My opinion is the same as this post, he is a fallback right now for me since he has little to his name and made it clear it's a bandwagon vote.

So you'd be fine with your town lean dead? The post that you quoted with having the same opinion as seems like Gheb doesn't care about what happens to that slot, whereas you've stated that you think he's town. If that's the case, why are you trying to defend him one post, and then support his lynch in the same breath? At best this is bad play, at worst this is bussing (if Kouse is scum).

Spak hasn't changed anything until he actually does more.

Says the person who pretty much skipped the middle half of D1.

Reread what his previous slot did again,

What did my previous slot do again? I remember thread sentiment looking on Defen pretty positively until she had to leave for IRL reasons.

then reread Spak's scum read on Kouse. No one should really have a solid scum read on Kouse unless they think that was reaching newbie scum. I highly doubt that, he seemed to actually have some belief in what he was saying about you as good or bad as it wanna call it. Spak's post on him reaches on what he did but doesn't consider anything of his experience nor context to what he said with Kouse's thoughts. Spak's huge one post on him is just formulaic way to look at him as scum with not much thought into

That huge post is a formulaic way of trying to analyze Kouse's play as objectively as I can. I went and broke down his play post by post, and analyzed what he was saying to the best of my ability.

Right now, Ryu is looking pretty bad from my perspective. I'm not sure how much more I'll respond to before lunch because this took me a while, but I'll be working on it. I also haven't checked over this post at all, so hopefully there aren't too many half-written sentences lol.

 

[Spak]

Town read.

I've liked your content even at parts where I disagree with it.

You are in the Fand/Vult area of I want you to stay around.

I don't know about Ran, but this wasn't ever the main concern about you this game. My main concern is that when someone has asked you for a read this game, you've given mostly whimpy gut reads and then have pretty much no evidence to support said reads. Then, when you're further questioned on them, you've given pretty bad reasoning that only looks at one aspect of a person's play, not the whole picture. You seem to be picking and choosing what you see in certain people to fit your read list, not analyzing slots so that you can place them on your list appropriately.

What's your take on Ryu vs Ran, how does that affect your reads on both of them?

Ryu looks worse. Ran looks better. I'll be back later.

 

[ranmaru]

Nabe, thank you for the vote. You should stay on him. I don't think it was beneficial, since I did not state that until almost half a page down. He was already reacting to my vote on him, so I think that reaction was telling enough. I post things in the moment, so I do not plan ahead or anything. I did not expect that much posting but I would expect push back from scum as they do not just give in.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Somebody please remind me why we're not lynching Kouse right now?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I apologize if anything is unclear, but I'm still a little bit out of it after getting me teeth pulled.

Your gonna feel loopy for a while after getting them pulled.

And yet you're accusing me of not considering a player's skill level while voting for them? I think that aside from the replace out (which she had a legit reason for, as I saw in the PM), she didn't really do anything I wouldn't expect from noob!Town.

Why didn't you state this earlier?

Can you share any of this or is it best not to?

So you'd be fine with your town lean dead? The post that you quoted with having the same opinion as seems like Gheb doesn't care about what happens to that slot, whereas you've stated that you think he's town. If that's the case, why are you trying to defend him one post, and then support his lynch in the same breath? At best this is bad play, at worst this is bussing (if Kouse is scum).

I don't think he is going to flip scum but I don't think he is a bad lynch in the long run.

If that makes sense.

I'm not confident in the slot flipping scum, but if it got lynched over the slot sitting in limbo until worst case scenario where a modkill happens then yeah lynching it would be better than not.

Says the person who pretty much skipped the middle half of D1.

Really doesn't make sense at all since I am talking about a replace in over someone being inactive.

That huge post is a formulaic way of trying to analyze Kouse's play as objectively as I can. I went and broke down his play post by post, and analyzed what he was saying to the best of my ability.

The problem is the fact your way about it looks like he was scum first then reasoning second. It's the same problem I have with Gheb's way of going about it. Both of you look liked you called him scum first then came up with the reasoning second.

I buy your post more than Gheb if I put it on a scale but I still don't care for either.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nudge ranmaru , #285. Please make your third return to the thread since that post.
Vote: Red Ryu as inducement to acknowledge my presence.

Fandangox hi yeah I see you *waves* ooh yer wicked ay


Gheb wagon doesn't feel great, it seems like everybody is sitting on their hands waiting for deadline to pull votes.

Nabe, thank you for the vote. You should stay on him. I don't think it was beneficial, since I did not state that until almost half a page down. He was already reacting to my vote on him, so I think that reaction was telling enough. I post things in the moment, so I do not plan ahead or anything. I did not expect that much posting but I would expect push back from scum as they do not just give in.

Are you two trying to make a no lynch happen?

 

[Vult Redux]

i started typing this this morning but then had to go to work and i see spak and others have posted since then but i'll post this anyway

Gheb wagon doesn't feel great, it seems like everybody is sitting on their hands waiting for deadline to pull votes.

doesn't help that we need 5 votes but there are only 7 players in the thread. /: 1 of which is gheb... so 5/6 to get the lynch.

also i have to admit that I'm afraid to talk too much about other people because I'm worried that RR and Doopliss will jump ship on me before the deadline and we'll end up with a no lynch. <_> (I s2g Doopliss if you're still voting Nabes at deadline i will consider it ultimate betrayal)

your RR vote doesn't help. I want to keep him longer. Ran didn't like him before but I'm not sure how he feels now

also i forgot to mention the Spak slot. when Spak started giving some insight and analysis that I liked I dropped focus on the slot. now that it's the end of D1 I'm kind of worried that the slot will have gone through the whole day phase just having reacted to things and not scumhunted. but on the other hand i have a really good feeling about gheb and his response to my last post makes me feel more confident

 

[Spak]

Why didn't you state this earlier?

Can you share any of this or is it best not to?

I think it was something about her wanting to celebrate her mom's birthday. She probably replaced out because she wanted to spend time with her family, and I offered to hydra with her on an alt account when she got back but she hasn't actually checked the role PM since Friday night (before I sent out the offer). I'm guessing that she figured being out for a whole day was too much time to miss, and wanted to replace so that someone else could have a better chance of contributing to the game.

I don't think he is going to flip scum but I don't think he is a bad lynch in the long run.

If that makes sense.

I'm not confident in the slot flipping scum, but if it got lynched over the slot sitting in limbo until worst case scenario where a modkill happens then yeah lynching it would be better than not.

OK, that makes sense.

Really doesn't make sense at all since I am talking about a replace in over someone being inactive.

I thought you were talking about me, not my slot. Oops.

The problem is the fact your way about it looks like he was scum first then reasoning second.

That is the scientific method. Make a hypothesis then test it rather than run tests and then look for a hypothesis. It's hard to get to any conclusions without theories. I'm not saying that Kouse is 100% for sure scum, but he's been one of my biggest leads for a while now and you'd be hard-pressed to find scum right now based off of no circumstantial evidence.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Unvote

I don't think it was beneficial, since I did not state that until almost half a page down. He was already reacting to my vote on him, so I think that reaction was telling enough. I post things in the moment, so I do not plan ahead or anything. I did not expect that much posting but I would expect push back from scum as they do not just give in.

You've talked around my question here by answering my secondary question, by stating that you didn't inform Ryu of his bad play in order to get anything beneficial out of his reaction. The primary question is, why did you inform Ryu? Why did you address a scumread on Ryu towards Ryu?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

EBWOP: nudge damn it

 

[ranmaru]

I have answered this before. To express how I feel. Everyone else can see it. Also to be able to have a trail of what I dislike of Ryu. I have done this many times in past games too, and this is beginning to feel like game theory talk. It was me reacting to Ryu's play.

Purpose: To show how I feel, and to interact with ryu. I gain more from interactions then solely making a case without doing so. It also happened that it was my reaction to his play. I did not do it so his play could improve, since if I were I would be off Ryu by now, and I would not say it publicly, and he would go into all that anyway and reply to my case the same way.

So, I hope this helps you see ny thought process. Now, let us progress with discussing who goes today. I am done discussing this.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I approve.

Vote: Gheb

I feel this vote is not strongly supported. He only recently stated a gutscum on gheb but gheb was in limbo for him and his gutscum reasoning is not original. Plus this shows ryu does not really care of the direction of spak, he gave that up quickly.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Maven89 request votecount and # of hours before deadline hits.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I feel this vote is not strongly supported. He only recently stated a gutscum on gheb but gheb was in limbo for him and his gutscum reasoning is not original. Plus this shows ryu does not really care of the direction of spak, he gave that up quickly.

As I said before.

Are you trying to make a no lynch happen?

Kouse and Gheb are the best lynches right now in terms of what people will actually support and be able to do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I feel this vote is not strongly supported. He only recently stated a gutscum on gheb but gheb was in limbo for him and his gutscum reasoning is not original. Plus this shows ryu does not really care of the direction of spak, he gave that up quickly.

And yes I changed my mind because I did not like what Gheb posted.