Monty Python's Flying Mafia - SCUM VICTORY, Vult/Doop win the game!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't like how Ran reacted to Kouse on a reread, he should know better than to go that deep on a player he knows little of in terms of skill and experience.

 

[ranmaru]

Red Ryu, can you tell me why you liked my #71?
You state that you townlead Kouseband now, can you state why?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Let me make my position on Fandango clear. I feel he is scum, trying to paint myself and then Defen as scum.You can clearly see this in his questioning to Defen, which for some reason, he does not accept the answer. It reads to me as trying to make her look bad, when she was actually correct to assume Ryu is questioning alot, but not actually giving conclusions from his questions. I also see this in his wording about my read change on Vult. "You lost your confidence quite fast, eh?" as if that's supposed to be a point against me, I find this attempt tainting. It's a good thing to re-evaluate reads, and I think it was a good time to drop my little push on Vult. He is doing a little too much asking, and not enough giving reads/votes. I think he would have done more had she not replaced out, but I do not think his intentions were genuine.

I also want to state to the whole town, that reading Ryu simply on his questioning is not enough. He's a null at best, and his lack of play is concerning. I saw him supporting me on my little vult push and that's it. Not to mention that Ryu wasn't proactive about it and hopped on it as soon as I started it. I think Fandango's opinion of Ryu is a half-***** attempt at a read.

Unvote Vote: FangangoX

Huge jumping the gun when he gave reasonable answers, slow down.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, give me a read on Gheb and Nabe.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like Defenestration and Red Ryu for their activity in thread. Kouseband being quite is a bit disheartening and I smell possible noobie scum vibes via being afraid to post.



What exactly sticks out about Vult?

bolded.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gheb and Nabe have done very little, want to get them to contribute more when I can dig into this deeper.

Ran can die and I don't care what his alignment his, the way he has pushed a lot of slots is so trigger happy for blood I find it that anti town to not have any patience for players then proceed to ignore the actually players with no paper trail.

Fand and Vult are fine in my book right now. Kind of interested in previous questions from Fand as to his read of Doop and why he had an issue with someone having a town read on Doop. @Fandangox

S_Defenstration's slot on a reread has inconsistent reasoning and some really shallow reasoning to reach on Ran earlier.

Spak hasn't posted anything to really change my mind on this.

Vote: Spak

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also, give me a read on Gheb and Nabe.

They have done nothing and can be policy lynched if nothing else.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fair enough. I did not like the questioning wrt the ryu read but I did like your point on gheb stating how him being confident and his #165 not lining up. I just felt it could go either way with the defen kouse position.

I am not cool with your wagon anymore, and you are null to me now. I like Vult.

Unvote Vote: Red Ryu

Yet gives Nabe and Gheb a pass because??? what exactly?

Because I posted more before I got busy?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not much. I think Vult is a town lean, and I want to completely re-read Fanny's slot before giving an assessment on it. I read Ryu's inactivity as null if he's been working the whole time (real life priorities over Mafia), but I expect something fairly substantial from him read-wise by the end of the phase if he wants to not be on my scum list D2. Kouse still looks scummy, you still look townie, Nabe, Gheb, and Doop all still look null, and I'm still confirmed town.

Well this is better.

Can you tell me why Kouse, I found it to be more new town than scum.

 

[ranmaru]

No thoughts on (Gheb/Nabe) their votes which are more than nothing?

I don't like how Ran reacted to Kouse on a reread, he should know better than to go that deep on a player he knows little of in terms of skill and experience.

This comes across as fake, and you get no points for stating this, this late in the game.

 

[ranmaru]

I also want to state I don't believe the excuse that you confused Kouse with Defen. Still waiting on your townkouse reasoning.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No thoughts on (Gheb/Nabe) their votes which are more than nothing?

I can take more from Gheb now that I saw his post. More to work with than before.

Nabe I got nothing still/

This comes across as fake,

Zero reasoning for this out of nowhere statement.

You jumped on him fast which reads to me as over ambitious one way or another. I don't like that either way as finding it to not be helping find scum over getting a lynvh.

and you get no points for stating this, this late in the game.

Don't care.

 

[ranmaru]

It reads fake to me because it would be easy for you to state this early game and you seem to only be saying this now because you are being wagoned (OMGUS). You seem to be focusing a lot on me when you 'don't care about my alignment'. I also don't support the Spak push.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I support a ryu wagon. Dude is taking way too long to get involved here. Still unsure how he mixed up Kouse voting me as someone else, and not feeling how he had a null on vult after all that questioning he did.

You have zero background to even suggest this, ever.

Best you have is past hydras which supports that you should even past this know better than this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Suggest in the past that you know better than to think me not being here means I am scum*

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It reads fake to me because it would be easy for you to state this early game and you seem to only be saying this now because you are being wagoned (OMGUS). You seem to be focusing a lot on me when you 'don't care about my alignment'. I also don't support the Spak push.

I wasn't here and did a reread because got two people mixed up.

I actually do care to get you to either die or get your head on straight. Your early play actually I find to be legit bad on a reread, with your over aggressive attitude when I know you know better to actually be scummy.

Even worse when you have hydra'd with me when I haven't posted with you for days and yet you call that out as being scummy when you fully are aware I can vanish for a few days sometimes when I also did it when we hydra'd 3-4 times.

 

[ranmaru]

I was saying in general. No meta involved in that. I was talking about interest in finding scum. I could have been wrong and looking at an inactive townryu but I don't believe in your reads that took this long to generate. Also I don't like that you have a read that's "I don't care about his alignment". If you are town you'd have to do better than push Spak, who was a town read before replacing and never let me down, the entire time.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I liked the latter half of it, but didn't agree with the first little bit.

I feel like Ran is going overboard with the vote (which looks super aggressive in comparison to what I've come to expect from Ran's voting style), but he's going off of the only lead that he has at the moment. Fanny looks like he's trying to save face while he clearly didn't read Defen's response fully, but I'm not sure if that puts him in the position of being scum... I'd like to remind everyone that people are suspicious by nature, so while Fanny "tainting" Ran's image could have been on purpose, it may have also been Fanny showing some of his suspicion towards another slot or pressuring Ran to see how he would react.

I think that Vult is trying to get a read on me, as I'm one of the people in this game he's played with before and he seemed to greatly dislike my slot before (and maybe even after?) the replacement. I'm fine with my rump being nudged, but I honestly think that Ryu needs more nudging to get active again.

No more!

Let's take a detailed look at Kouse's content thus far, starting at the beginning of the game:

• #47 - RVS vote
• #68 - States he needs to check the thread more, votes Vult for sticking out (this was right after thread sentiment swung towards Vult pressure).
• #76 - Says that he is really quiet because he's distracted by other media and it's his first time playing Mafia
• #78 - Says that he's suspicious of Vult because he "blackmailed" Defen (even though Vult already described how the "blackmail" wasn't scummy), which doesn't defend the read well at all.
• #80 - Kouse doubts Ran and likes Ryu, which was completely unexplained (note that Ran was the only one questioning him so he doesn't like pressure, and goes along with thread sentiment with Ryu).
• #86 - Explains the Ran read as him wanting "other people to looks scummy, getting himself out of the spotlight of suspicious and push somebody else in it". This makes no sense as Ran hadn't been pushed at all up to that point, and had been putting himself in the spotlight by asking questions and stating opinions on current events of the time.
• #89 - Kouse says that nobody else was suspicious of him so he isn't in the spotlight (which nobody said he was, so this makes me think he's deadly afraid of being in the spotlight), and then tries to tangle his words around to make it sound like he's saying something that he wasn't (to avoid backtracking).

He then dips out of thread, never to be seen again. I'd be a bit more forgiving if he decided to say "hey, I screwed up, this was a noobie mistake", but it looks a LOT like he's trying to stay out of the spotlight, gets trapped by his own paranioa about being in the spotlight, tries to backtrack and turn the situation back on Ran, and flees at the slightest hint of pressure. I dunno about you, but that kind of action looks pretty scummy to me.

It's like 11:30 so I'll probably be off to bed soon. Talk to you all in the morning!

But he still hasn't posted in a while and it seems like a reach to call him out as scum because he stopped posting past his first few ones.

 

[ranmaru]

So no opinion on Ghebs vote on Fandango, who you seem to like? At all?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I was saying in general. No meta involved in that. I was talking about interest in finding scum. I could have been wrong and looking at an inactive townryu but I don't believe in your reads that took this long to generate. Also I don't like that you have a read that's "I don't care about his alignment". If you are town you'd have to do better than push Spak, who was a town read before replacing and never let me down, the entire time.

How is me dipping for a weekend and then because I have a 40 hour job I get up early for dodging the thread?! I do stuff other than play mafia for Christs sake.

And what the hell do you call my early questions then, I was trying to get the game started when I noticed a post I liked too early had something I actually didn't like in it.

I could care less if your slot lives or dies because your slot is being jumpy for a lynch. I noticed early and many of the points you had were grasping for reasons to get something going rather than something actually solid. That I got a problem with.

I don't care what you think of my reads I'll say what I want.

I don't prefer a Kouse lynch, slot early on reads like newbie not liking something and thinking it was scummy. Only reason I would be ok with this is if it staying inactive to the end of the day.

Spak hasn't done anything to redeem what his previous slot did, I do find what D_etc, did to be worse than what Kouse did and actually reads like he didn't have jack when he went on with you talking to Fand about it.

I want Vult and Fand to stay for now. Both are contributing well and imo it's more benefical to keep them around looking at their content thus far.

I'd be all for seeing your slot dead with the stuff I reread and the garbage you are trying to use to say, "Ruy is scum because he didn't post in 2 hours" You don't even consider the actual irl scenario with me but give other slots a complete pass on this. Why? Because you saw me post earlier and then stop. Face it, that is exactly why you jumped on me. Call it OMGUS all you want, I do not like your play.

Nabe is still in limbo, nothing done.

Gheb came in and gave something but still not far from the limbo area.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't mind lynching Kouse first if that's what you guys wanna do. I just saw that Fanny had a fresh vote on him and wanted to keep the momentum going.

My opinion is the same as this post, he is a fallback right now for me since he has little to his name and made it clear it's a bandwagon vote.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Going to bed and turning alerts off until I can actually post again.

 

[ranmaru]

Your early game was not good either. You were not proactive, and only asked Vult questions when I started. Your result having Vult as null shows you were only questioning to question. I also don't get why you say Spak hasn't changed anything for you when you already say 'this is better' to one of his quotes. I think your play right now is fake and omgus. I think your read on Spak is weak. I also don't like that you don't consider Spak's actions when considering the read, and you are only looking at the previous slot owner to have an excuse to keep the scumread. Finally I still don't believe that you mixed up Kouse and Defen.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Your early game was not good either. You were not proactive, and only asked Vult questions when I started. Your result having Vult as null shows you were only questioning to question. I also don't get why you say Spak hasn't changed anything for you when you already say 'this is better' to one of his quotes. I think your play right now is fake and omgus. I think your read on Spak is weak. I also don't like that you don't consider Spak's actions when considering the read, and you are only looking at the previous slot owner to have an excuse to keep the scumread. Finally I still don't believe that you mixed up Kouse and Defen.

Asking a question doesn't not always warrant a direct read. I'm not gonna jump on him and call him scum like you did with others early on. Vult I found get better as the game went on. I wanted to do a starting point to get something started.

Spak hasn't changed anything until he actually does more. Reread what his previous slot did again, then reread Spak's scum read on Kouse. No one should really have a solid scum read on Kouse unless they think that was reaching newbie scum. I highly doubt that, he seemed to actually have some belief in what he was saying about you as good or bad as it wanna call it. Spak's post on him reaches on what he did but doesn't consider anything of his experience nor context to what he said with Kouse's thoughts. Spak's huge one post on him is just formulaic way to look at him as scum with not much thought into

I do think Kouse had some sort of thought in this that wasn't faked, if he got lynched it would be because inactive not because the slot is legitimately scummy. Combine that with a slot I didn't like and you get Spak who really only gave me one thing to work with.

Yes it is better what he posted and I wanna talk to him on this, why are you so nitpicky on this going in circles. You're tunneling really hard with play that is grating to me right now.

I asked you again why my play is fake when it is clear you haven't once tried to read anything I posted in the page or so, "but ruy post so late guyz" Screw that, you got on my case because I stopped posting and that is really the only thing you are hanging onto.

 

[ranmaru]

It's pretty hard not to read/notice any posts of yours in the pages before this one. It being better means you don't care to read him any further, you are just scumreading him to have a scumread. I am not convinced by your Spak read, and he has legitimate points on Kouse. I think you will continue to try to handwave my reasoning against you as 'you stopped posting', when it's much more than that. Most importantly, your interest in finding scum. Especially with you stating that you are fine with PL'ing Nabe and Gheb.

 

[ranmaru]

I will be going to sleep, I have nothing else to say to you. Have a good night Ryu.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's pretty hard not to read/notice any posts of yours in the pages before this one. It being better means you don't care to read him any further, you are just scumreading him to have a scumread. I am not convinced by your Spak read, and he has legitimate points on Kouse. I think you will continue to try to handwave my reasoning against you as 'you stopped posting', when it's much more than that. Most importantly, your interest in finding scum. Especially with you stating that you are fine with PL'ing Nabe and Gheb.

I'm reading him as scum right now because I haven't talked to him yet nor seen anything to convince me otherwise.

I'm with you on me not asking anything recently or much past the first few pages, I haven't because of me working on a paper for a certification and going back and forth with you.

I am partially hand-waving you because you aren't reading anything I have posted in the past page or so, at all.

I want you to explain why you think you mixed them up. There is something I can guess, but I want to see your thought process on it. How does that affect your scumlean on Kouse?

Let me be clear on this, one last time.

I saw both get on you, one of which I didn't mind because I saw a player who didn't know what he was doing another another whom showed to have clearly some past experience early on.

I posted from my phone on that post when I got their names mixed up, I don't reread in games usually unless I feel like I need to. I play off memory most of the time.

That is what happened and it is why I wanted to reread because it was clear I didn't get names right earlier and needed a refresher from not posting.

 

[ranmaru]

Question for you: Who do you think is scum with spak?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Question for you: Who do you think is scum with spak?

Gut feeling Gheb form what I am rereading atm.

Hey look, it's Gheb and he even read the whole thread!

I first wanna make it clear that I take back whatever little I said about Ran and Kouse. Ran is super-awesome-obvious town in my book and ... I know it sounds crazy but ... I think he's right on just about everything so far?!? I also like Vult for the most part. They seem to be quite OK with each other too so I think the ideal scenario would be for us three to just ally up and steamroll this game asap. I think this one will go pretty fast.

Ryu, Doop and Spak all ... kinda exist but I don't really care about them a whole lot and I'm totally OK with putting a hold on reading them for an indefinite amount of time.

Kouse and Fanny are the scumteam and we should lynch them. Kouse has been exposed as scum pretty much in RVS and Fanny made some clumsy attempts to cover for him without aggroing Ran - who has both of them individually as scum reads. These are the hard stances I'm willing to commit to now until any of it turns out to be wrong. But to get this game going I think lynching Fanny is the right course of action.

Vote: FandangoX

I don't see clearly exposed scum at all and really want more here to see what Kouse even did to expose anything other than he tried to make a stance and something he saw that looked wrong.

Nabe is a coin flip for me to read right now, but even reading more carefully I'd probably be more hesitant to say he is a Policy Lynch when I see some of his other posts where he gives more to the table with a spak read and what he did with Doopy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Even then the Fandy scum read from him is a weak chainsaw kind of look to it, like Frandy went after you to get pressure off of Kouse. I don't see that when rereading that interaction over trying to just get some reads.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I hate how you guys have to make everything so complicated >_<

Ranmaru's #91 sums up why Kouse is scum pretty accurately and concisely. Especially the way he parroted Defene's reasoning on why he finds Vult to be suspicious is noteworthy because he literally parrots the usage of the word 'blackmailing' - a word that I find very unfitting to describe what Vult's been doing. It's a massive parrot to just re-use such a specific word in this fashion and it reeks very opportunistic ... to me it seems like he couldn't find a better answer as to why he'd be suspicious of Vult and decided to just use whatever happened to be easily avilable.

I'm not sure why Kouse choose to selectively interpret Ran's play as dubious via him "trying to push other people into the spotlight". Specifically the accusation that he just "really wants other people to look scummy" is pretty hefty and 100% enough a reason to push for his lynch. If that's what Kouse actually thinks about Ran then I have no clue why Kouse was satisifed doing nothing and just keeping his vote on Vult. To me it seems Kouse was just happy to have the discussion move somewhere else and then dip - he hasn't posted since then I believe even though he's been on yesterday according to his profile and he ignored Ryu's very legitimate question in #87.

That's honestly good enough to justify a lynch at this point. Kouse has made himself pretty suspicious without any pressure on him and he has been fairly inactive overall. He interacted with Ran and Ryu and other people [Fanny, myself] have taken stances on him over the course of the Day as well. We should lynch the slot imo.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Between post #95 and post #104 Fanny tries to discredit Ran's case by questioning the 'parroting'-part of Ran's argument. Given my current position on Kouse I'm very doubtful of Fanny's intentions here. He seems pretty eager to discredit not only Ranmaru's case on Kouse by consistently calling his reasoning weak [without explaining why they're weak either] but Ran's play as a whole by saying he was trying to control the flow of the game as it that were something negative. Fanny uses two weak points himself between those none posts - one is that Ran supposedly is using weak reasoning to push new players [similar as in Kouse's case that I mentioned in the above post, this is a very heavy accusation that you'd normally push a lynch for!], the other is the claim that Ryu's questions make him look like actively hunting for scum - that doesn't seem justify at all. So I think @Fandangox should probably explain both things. a) what exactly is wrong with Ran's callout on Kouse's parroting? Why is it weak and why did you have to bring up the fact that Kouse is a new player in order to discredit Ran himself rather than his arguments? b.) where the heck are you getting the idea from that Ryu's been legitimately hunting for scum? I know you said it's a soft read but even soft reads need to have at least some sort of basis.

I definitely think there's a connection between Kouse and Fanny. Kouse made himself look suspicious and Ran pointed out the how and why about it. Then Fanny comes in, discredits Ran and his case based on what I consider poor reasoning and tries to deflect the pressure elsewhere. After that Kouse magically disappears and stops posting as soon as he's off the hook. Ran also pointed out both slots as individually scummy. I'm going to operate under the assumption that they are a scumteam until I see a good rason to think otherwise.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd also like to mention that in post #181 we have the second instance of Fanny misinterpreting something. My answer "nothing specific" was in response to Ran's question of what made me change my mind on Kouse, not in response to what makes him look scummy to me.

That's something you could've seen had actually read the interaction between Ran and myself in order to figure out where we're coming from, rather than just trying to defend Kouse / discredit his attackers no matter what.

 

[ranmaru]

I am interested in Fanny's reads, and a vote from him. Also thanks for clarifying on your mind changing on kouse.

 

[ranmaru]

Gheb, you bring these points and they seem solid, yet you did like Fannys post coming in and stating my #91 was reaching. Can you explain why you liked that?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It matched my thought process back then - a thought process that I consider flawed now, mind you. I didn't unlike it because I think unliking previously liked post can be 'abused' in some way. We had that discussion in an earlier game, I don't remember which one, but Dastrn brought up the point and I thought it was reasonable enough to apply it for myself.

 

[Dooplissity]

This is textbook-definition Nabe bull****. I'm still mad at what he pulled last game.

@anyone familiar with nabe: Is it normal for him to make vaguely "rah rah go town" with very little substance?

Let's be clear -- it's not about me wanting to look town (because that's not a valid reading at all, me saying it is genuinely empty even if people take me up on it like Spak and revitalize their content). It's about me wanting and subsequently inviting a thread of players who are easy to read and have new commentary, who aren't having a muddy wallow in the field about whether or not a now-gone player's answer to a question was a proper answer or dodged the question, when the question took place in the first 24 hours of the Day and was a question about nothing to begin with.

You're doing fine.

It's still vague and unhelpful. If you want to generate content, call out specific players or specific things you feel merit discussion. Just going "boy i wish we had more content" without making any suggestion as to what that content might be doesn't /actually/ do anything for the Town, but it does /look/ Town.

I feel like town!nabe's version does those things, but scum!nabe doesn't actually have to care about it. Scum!nabe would actually rather not suggest new topics to talk about, because he'd rather let discussion stagnate, then go "I told you so! Look how Town I was!"

Not a fan of gheb's posts at all. I'm loading into a game of LoL atm, will explain soon

#HBC | Red Ryu : You listed reads on everyone but me. Read on me?

 

[Spak]

But he still hasn't posted in a while and it seems like a reach to call him out as scum because he stopped posting past his first few ones.

It's not just leaving, it's doing what he did and then leaving during questioning. I'm comparing Kouse's reaction to my own in my first big game, where I screwed up pretty bad and it looked like I was backtracking a LOT and constantly changed my story, but then I stuck with it and almost got to endgame (until I got killed off by an Indie). Kouse, on the other hand, ran away from pressure and hasn't come back for most of the phase; that looks pretty scummy to me, considering he also showed that he was paranoid about being in the spotlight by his defensive reaction of "nobody was ever suspicious of me" when nobody implied that he was under pressure.

Anyways, going to get my teeth pulled out of my mouth (and trying to push someone who won't post/respond is like pulling teeth lol). See ya in a few hours?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@anyone familiar with nabe: Is it normal for him to make vaguely "rah rah go town" with very little substance?



It's still vague and unhelpful. If you want to generate content, call out specific players or specific things you feel merit discussion. Just going "boy i wish we had more content" without making any suggestion as to what that content might be doesn't /actually/ do anything for the Town, but it does /look/ Town.

I feel like town!nabe's version does those things, but scum!nabe doesn't actually have to care about it. Scum!nabe would actually rather not suggest new topics to talk about, because he'd rather let discussion stagnate, then go "I told you so! Look how Town I was!"

Not a fan of gheb's posts at all. I'm loading into a game of LoL atm, will explain soon

#HBC | Red Ryu : You listed reads on everyone but me. Read on me?

Town read.

 

[Dooplissity]

Anyway, I disagree with pretty much everything in Gheb's #231. You all keep trying to apply veteran player logic to kouse, and that's fundamentally flawed. I talked about this earlier, but he's not parroting as part of a greater strategy. He's a new player - he saw something agreeable and agreed with it. Occam's razor dictates that's it's a lot more likely that he's just a new player playing weakly (sorry!) than heavily thinking through his actions - I actually think his weak play is indicative of town!kouse, as scum!kouse would be getting coached hardcore. His disappearance gives me pause, I admit, but I still think the slot is town

Gheb's #232 is worse. He criticizes Fan for discrediting Ran and calling Ran out on making an easy push on a new player. I did that far more than Fan did, going as far as voting Ran with a wall of accusations and listing Kouse as a solid townread. From Gheb's PoV, if anyone is Kouse's buddy it should be me, since I've been defending him and pushed Ran early. Even if he thinks that Fan's behavior was worse than mine somehow, surely doing what I did is worth a callout, given that Gheb is scumreading Kouse the hardest? Yet Gheb doesn't even mention me at all - why? I think this is because his read on Fan is fabricated. Town!Gheb should be all over me, but scum!gheb gains nothing from pushing me when nobody scumreads me, and would much rather cast shade on Fan, whose's taken heat from several players, notably the very aggressive Ran.

Ran vs. Ryu looks Town v. Town to me. Ryu's indignation at Ran''s push reads genuine, and Ran's aggression on the Ryu slot seems townie to me - there are easier places to fish for a ML and Ran's in no need of more towncred for being aggressive.

I re-read Ran vs Fan, Fan's comments about Defen saying something. Fan asking a question, and then Defen posting essentially the same thing again is true. I can sort of see where's Ran's coming from, since Fan didn't answer everything directly, but I see exactly what Fan's saying and I agree with it.


reads:
{Ran, Ryu}
{Fand, Vult, Kouse}
{}
{Spak}
{Gheb, Nabe}


@Nabe: Full reads list please.
@Gheb: Full reads list please.

@thread: thoughts on Nabe/Gheb? I get that there's not much to judge, but I've posted cases on both and I'd be happy to see either swing. Nabe in particular is damning - most of his very few posts have been when things were directly aimed at him, and his lack of general reads this late is extremely offputting