Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[Jihnsius]

People keep stating that the rapid-A "infinite" has been disproven yet I've seen no one explain it. Anyone care to elaborate?

As for the laser-lock:
Once competitive players get enough practice, they will be able to see it coming and learn to tech it. Everyone will eventually know that if you're dropped by a Falco next to the wall, don't not tech. In Melee, Fox can drillshine infinite half of the roster without a wall, and more than half with. It's not always easy to set up if you're fighting a competent opponent, mind, but it's still possible. Although Falco's infinite will be much easier to perform, it will still be difficult to set up at higher levels of play.

Of course, however, this will give the Falco an obvious advantage to intentionally not laser to get easy tech-chasing in. I doubt this would be considered too cheap, though, considering some of things characters get away with in Melee.

EDIT: But then again Fox still has a wall infinite, as does Dedede.

 

[Volrec]

good stuff mr.k

 

[RyokoYaksa]

The rapid-A "infinite" was disproven the moment Smash DI factored in. It's the same reason why jabs in Melee and in Brawl somehow wind up putting the target behind you.

None of the wall junk really deserves a ban unless the truly infinite ones are being used to stall out the clock. The people who wish to pass judgments on what is "too good" or too "broken" in Brawl really need to look back and research the reasons why things were banned in Melee, and also take a good look at Sirlin's article on banned elements. The lack of hindsight, and foresight, displayed in this thread is astounding.

 

[dmbrandon]

The rapid-A "infinite" was disproven the moment Smash DI factored in. It's the same reason why jabs in Melee and in Brawl somehow wind up putting the target behind you.

None of the wall junk really deserves a ban unless the truly infinite ones are being used to stall out the clock. The people who wish to pass judgments on what is "too good" or too "broken" in Brawl really need to look back and research the reasons why things were banned in Melee, and also take a good look at Sirlin's article on banned elements. The lack of hindsight, and foresight, displayed in this thread is astounding.

you know, the wall appeared in the great sea for about 20 seconds, ryoko, and I took a stock off you. Imgaine if that was, and I could camp it, while laser spamming. That's fair to you, I encourage you to bet money against a good fox, and let him pick shadow moses.

 

[Sgt.Frog]

Way to drain the fun out of a good game guys. ^_________________________________^

Tourneys rock!

 

[dmbrandon]

Way to drain the fun out of a good game guys. ^_________________________________^

Tourneys rock!

If you're in a stage discussion thread, and you're not into tourneys, I'd imagine you're wasting what useless time you have.

 

[Ryan-K]

I hope you realize people play tournies BECAUSE they have fun.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

you know, the wall appeared in the great sea for about 20 seconds, ryoko, and I took a stock off you. Imgaine if that was, and I could camp it, while laser spamming. That's fair to you, I encourage you to bet money against a good fox, and let him pick shadow moses.

I'm not johning about getting infi-shined on a wall at all. It's happened to me nearly every Melee tournament I've been in, and no matter how good the technique on its own is, there is still the glooming factor that I let myself be taken into that situation.

The fact that Fox could waveshine you and force you against a wall is what made most strongly centralized walled levels broken in Melee (like Peach's Castle). He can't do that anymore. It's a strong Fox advantage, but that alone is nothing worth banning the entire level over. The issue of a shine infinite variably existing on potentially every level with or without walls was hardly broken enough to be banned in Melee, it certainly isn't going to in Brawl without Waveshining. This is the lack of hindsight I mentioned before. Is the level neutral? No. Bannable? Not with anything you've presented.

-And also, with rules around stage selection, counterpicking, and stage elimination, I can guarantee that such a MM would never, EVER, happen without me being **** sure I could do something about it. It's hardly any more or less unfair than me taking a Falco to Mute City, Brinstar, or some equally obnoxious level that favors Peach and destroys Falco in Melee.

I encourage you to get off my balls and realize there will always be powerful techniques in this game, but to really ban them, a lot of thinking needs to be done first as to what level of "too good" it is, which should be easier when so many people have Melee's example to follow upon, and with so many ways to avoid so-named "bannable" techniques.

 

[KishPrime]

I still have no problem with walls. Shrug.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

I think Wario Ware shouldn't be banned for the Micro Games.

But it seems it will be banned for WINNING them, which reward you with power boost items even when they're off. I can understand beating a game to avoid damage...but to compound it with a free super mushroom / Starman? If not for the Star Man (which, along with hearts and max tomatoes, items I always turn off in a "serious" match) being there, I would think nothing could hold this stage back.

 

[Puddin Master]

I think some of these are ridiculous. Norfair banned ONLY for teams? Shadow Moses Island? Why don't you just ban characters on certain stages that have unfair advantages if you HAVE to ban something?

 

[Mushroom Pie]

I'm not certain I understand why Electroplankton is banned. I get that the ledges can confuse tethers, but since the bottom of the stage is lined with water, that won't result in a death for them anyway, will it? It seems like more of an inconvenience than anything, which to me would place it firmly in the counterpick category.

Then again, I admittedly haven't kept up with information on the swimming mechanic. Does landing in water not return your jumps to you? Even if that is the case, couldn't the player just conserve their jump for after they've swam to a platform? It limits their mobility and options, sure, but I don't see how it does that to the point of necessitating a ban.

 

[Overswarm]

Why not wait until we have tournament results to actually ban things?

 

[Mushroom Pie]

Why not wait until we have tournament results to actually ban things?

It sounds to me like this list was based on some pretty darn extensive playtesting, so at the absolute minimum it's a good starting point.

 

[Overswarm]

It sounds to me like this list was based on some pretty darn extensive playtesting, so at the absolute minimum it's a good starting point.

It couldn't have been extensive. The game hasn't even released in America yet. It's a guy playing with his friends making a hypothesis; as long as you treat it as one man's opinion rather than anything of concrete value than it is fine... but still.

 

[dmbrandon]

I'm not johning about getting infi-shined on a wall at all. It's happened to me nearly every Melee tournament I've been in, and no matter how good the technique on its own is, there is still the glooming factor that I let myself be taken into that situation.

The fact that Fox could waveshine you and force you against a wall is what made most strongly centralized walled levels broken in Melee (like Peach's Castle). He can't do that anymore. It's a strong Fox advantage, but that alone is nothing worth banning the entire level over. The issue of a shine infinite variably existing on potentially every level with or without walls was hardly broken enough to be banned in Melee, it certainly isn't going to in Brawl without Waveshining. This is the lack of hindsight I mentioned before. Is the level neutral? No. Bannable? Not with anything you've presented.

-And also, with rules around stage selection, counterpicking, and stage elimination, I can guarantee that such a MM would never, EVER, happen without me being **** sure I could do something about it. It's hardly any more or less unfair than me taking a Falco to Mute City, Brinstar, or some equally obnoxious level that favors Peach and destroys Falco in Melee.

I encourage you to get off my balls and realize there will always be powerful techniques in this game, but to really ban them, a lot of thinking needs to be done first as to what level of "too good" it is, which should be easier when so many people have Melee's example to follow upon, and with so many ways to avoid so-named "bannable" techniques.

If you could waveshine properly, and get the infinite, you deserved it. I this game, you hold down, and spam B with no chance of escape. I suck *** with fox and still caught you, amongst the many I've faced. It's too easy to break the game, sorry if I want fair tournament experiences. I'll test it at the tourn this weekend, but odds are, my list iwll be the official list within a few months.

I still have no problem with walls. Shrug.

I think some of these are ridiculous. Norfair banned ONLY for teams? Shadow Moses Island? Why don't you just ban characters on certain stages that have unfair advantages if you HAVE to ban something?

If you take a level 25 tifa, and pit him against Ruby, who's gonna win?

I'm not certain I understand why Electroplankton is banned. I get that the ledges can confuse tethers, but since the bottom of the stage is lined with water, that won't result in a death for them anyway, will it? It seems like more of an inconvenience than anything, which to me would place it firmly in the counterpick category.

Then again, I admittedly haven't kept up with information on the swimming mechanic. Does landing in water not return your jumps to you? Even if that is the case, couldn't the player just conserve their jump for after they've swam to a platform? It limits their mobility and options, sure, but I don't see how it does that to the point of necessitating a ban.

There's no swimming in elektroplanton.

It couldn't have been extensive. The game hasn't even released in America yet. It's a guy playing with his friends making a hypothesis; as long as you treat it as one man's opinion rather than anything of concrete value than it is fine... but still.

If you can prove anything better, then please.

 

[Mushroom Pie]

It couldn't have been extensive. The game hasn't even released in America yet. It's a guy playing with his friends making a hypothesis; as long as you treat it as one man's opinion rather than anything of concrete value than it is fine... but still.

If I'm to believe what he's saying, and as of now I have no reason not to, then it's at least extensive enough to form a pretty reasonable estimation of what the stage banlist will ultimately look like. He might have a few stages wrong, sure, but overall it looks solid to me. Really, none of the justifications for banning stages look all that out there. The only bans that look worth challenging are the wall stages, and if we really don't currently know of any way to escape wall infinites, then yeah, they need to get banned and stay banned unless someone finds a way to escape them.

Oh, and I've got another question. On Mario Bros. Arcade, I know I've seen people make the platform above them pop up by jumping at it from the bottom. How does that affect people standing above the character jumping? Even if it stuns them or something, I highly doubt it's anything enough to actually counteract camping in the corridors, but I'm curious anyway.

There's no swimming in elektroplanton.

Ah. Well there you are then. I wonder why they made that water not count as swimmable?

 

[Overswarm]

If you can prove anything better, then please.

I can't prove anything, I can only guess. You are in the same boat. That's the point. Until there is identifiable mishaps and problems in tournament play, you can really only think about banning things that are insanely obvious, like Hyrule Temple in Melee.

Before that, any bans are preference and nothing more.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'm not a pro player or anything, so I apologize for anything stupid I'll say in advance, but isn't that what they did with wobbling? I don't know the exact rule or anything, but I heard that there was a time limit on it where you could only do it so long until it was illegal. I can see that being enforced, since it shouldn't be hard to just look at your watch for about 5 seconds to see if they stop.

That's exactly what they did with wobbling. Though the rule didn't stick, the fact is that people found it to be really an unfair advantage and as a whole most people just gave up on the tech out of the pure desire for a fair match.

Really, you never see pros wobble.

 

[joenopride]

That's exactly what they did with wobbling. Though the rule didn't stick, the fact is that people found it to be really an unfair advantage and as a whole most people just gave up on the tech out of the pure desire for a fair match.

Really, you never see pros wobble.

All 3 times you see an Ice Climber

 

[Milln]

I can't prove anything, I can only guess. You are in the same boat. That's the point. Until there is identifiable mishaps and problems in tournament play, you can really only think about banning things that are insanely obvious, like Hyrule Temple in Melee.

Before that, any bans are preference and nothing more.

dmbrandon actually owns the game and has a crew of players who are constantly testing and researching with him. You and he are not in the same boat. dmbrandon is making conjecture based on perpetually gathered evidence that he can access at any time. Because he has the game.

 

[Hand of Pain]

wait... so Great Sea isn't in the ban list?!

That's all I care to know... yay!

 

[Milln]

Great Sea rules, from what i've seen. XD Catapults are the best.

 

[Zenjamin]

Brandon, you might wana consider banning all walk-offs.

DDD chain-grabbing is the new wave-shining when in comes to banning stages... only they are easier to do.

my friend threw a tantrum after i chaingrabbed him off the side of (marths stage) and bridge of elden



EDIT:
I also think walls and walk-offs should be allowed for teams.
getting gimped because you dont have a team-mate to bail you out? tough **** mate, should have kept your teammate alive.

 

[dmbrandon]

Brandon, you might wana consider banning all walk-offs.

DDD chain-grabbing is the new wave-shining when in comes to banning stages... only they are easier to do.

my friend threw a tantrum after i chaingrabbed him off the side of (marths stage) and bridge of elden



EDIT:
I also think walls and walk-offs should be allowed for teams.
getting gimped because you dont have a team-mate to bail you out? tough **** mate, should have kept your teammate alive.

It's been proven you can escape chain grabs with smash DI. You can only do it til like 40%.If they're against the edge of a walk off, they could just be fsmashed out by d3 anyways.

 

[Overswarm]

dmbrandon actually owns the game and has a crew of players who are constantly testing and researching with him. You and he are not in the same boat. dmbrandon is making conjecture based on perpetually gathered evidence that he can access at any time. Because he has the game.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=137382

It took the back room over 5 months to complete a competitive ruleset that wasn't biased, involving over 25 people discussing a game nearly a decade old that they all had extreme experience with in both a competitive setting and the perspective of a tournament organizer.

How long has it taken dmbrandon, an unknown with, for obvious reasons, no real tournament experience with Brawl to make this list? He made the original post on the 4th of February. The game came out not too long ago.

The list is nothing but conjecture. Conjecture is fine, but it is presented as if he is an authority on the matter merely because he is one of hundreds that have played the game. He is not, nor is anyone else merely because they've played it. I, as well as virtually everyone in the smash community I know, have played it; we all make broad generalizations about what we think will or won't be banned, but lists like these are just as viable as lists of characters that will be banned.

I'll test it at the tourn this weekend, but odds are, my list iwll be the official list within a few months.

I see. -_^

 

[dmbrandon]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=137382

It took the back room over 5 months to complete a competitive ruleset that wasn't biased, involving over 25 people discussing a game nearly a decade old that they all had extreme experience with in both a competitive setting and the perspective of a tournament organizer.

How long has it taken dmbrandon, an unknown with, for obvious reasons, no real tournament experience with Brawl to make this list? He made the original post on the 4th of February. The game came out not too long ago.

The list is nothing but conjecture. Conjecture is fine, but it is presented as if he is an authority on the matter merely because he is one of hundreds that have played the game. He is not, nor is anyone else merely because they've played it. I, as well as virtually everyone in the smash community I know, have played it; we all make broad generalizations about what we think will or won't be banned, but lists like these are just as viable as lists of characters that will be banned.




I see. -_^

I don't only play melee. I've been in tournaments for games since I was 7. (I'm 22 now) I have more wins in tournaments, then you have posts on this board. (Exaggeration, but you get the idea.) I've been hosting tourns for years now, and understand why certain things should or should not be banned.

While I may not be a name you know, my general knowings are heavily regarded as trust worthy, and in some places, law. I wouldn't make this list without some idea of what I'm doing.

Only time will tell.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

dmbrandon actually owns the game and has a crew of players who are constantly testing and researching with him. You and he are not in the same boat. dmbrandon is making conjecture based on perpetually gathered evidence that he can access at any time. Because he has the game.

That may be, but what is there to be gained by letting a small number of "elite" (most of whom are far from elite in most respects) decide (by conjecture) what is to be played the other 99% of people who are waiting until March 9th? Nothing.

The point is that the burden of proof is upon the one making the claim. No techniques should be banned until they are demonstrated IN TOURNAMENT PLAY to be broken. Simply demonstrating something in training mode or in a non-tourney match between people who have had the game barely a week is insanely short of acceptable evidence.

 

[dmbrandon]

That may be, but what is there to be gained by letting a small number of "elite" (most of whom are far from elite in most respects) decide (by conjecture) what is to be played the other 99% of people who are waiting until March 9th? Nothing.

The point is that the burden of proof is upon the one making the claim. No techniques should be banned until they are demonstrated IN TOURNAMENT PLAY to be broken. Simply demonstrating something in training mode or in a non-tourney match between people who have had the game barely a week is insanely short of acceptable evidence.

Perhaps, like I've said before, you'd be willing to bet money against it in a match? Would oyu wanna bet 100$ vs a fox who can counterpick a level to which he only has to hit you one time to kill you?

And you can keep saying you have to fall into it, but if you keep your distance, he'll laser spam you.

 

[Zenjamin]

It's been proven you can escape chain grabs with smash DI. You can only do it til like 40%.If they're against the edge of a walk off, they could just be fsmashed out by d3 anyways.

well, a DDD Fsmash is quite abit harder to pull off then a grab.
also, it only takes about 4 grabs to push them off the side.

also, was the smash DI thing tested with sheild canceled grabs? in general how extensivly was it tested?

not that it matters too much, it really doesnt take that much to push someone off the side, even when you are near the middle.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Perhaps, like I've said before, you'd be willing to bet money against it in a match? Would oyu wanna bet 100$ vs a fox who can counterpick a level to which he only has to hit you one time to kill you?

And you can keep saying you have to fall into it, but if you keep your distance, he'll laser spam you.

What the hell does whether one arbitrary person can beat another in a money match have to do with what should be the rules for the community at large? It's a piece of circumstantial evidence at best.

Again, there is no reason to ban any technique until it is shown to be broken in tournament play.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you may very well turn out to be right, I'm saying: what a small number of people (perhaps less than one tenth of a percent of the potential tourneygoing audience of this game, elite or otherwise) say, after having played it barely a week, is not for me and should not be sufficient evidence for anyone.

 

[dmbrandon]

What the hell does whether one arbitrary person can beat another in a money match have to do with what should be the rules for the community at large? It's a piece of circumstantial evidence at best.

Again, there is no reason to ban any technique until it is shown to be broken in tournament play.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you may very well turn out to be right, I'm saying: what a small number of people (perhaps less than one tenth of a percent of the potential tourneygoing audience of this game, elite or otherwise) say, after having played it barely a week, is not for me and should not be sufficient evidence for anyone.

The question bears! If you were in a tournament, would you want to rely on running away from wallshining as a strategy? It changes the game, and that's what we need to avoid! Why bad Princess peaches castle? Because it changes the way the game is played. It turns from a fight, to a chase, and imo, we need to go the opposite way. Focus on real skill.

And it's been 2 weeks. ^_~

 

[Sliq]

Dear dmbrandon,

Shut your elitist mouth. You know absolutely nothing about nothing, which is in and of itself deserving of an award--possibly the "Biggest Elitist ******* in the Universe" award.

You come out of nowhere, and spout all this non-sense like you are some sort of self appointed authority, when in fact you are just a noob he needs to not be a dumb ******* and wave his **** around on the internet.

tl;dr

You are not an authority on anything other than being a giant tool.

 

[Overswarm]

I don't only play melee. I've been in tournaments for games since I was 7. (I'm 22 now) I have more wins in tournaments, then you have posts on this board. (Exaggeration, but you get the idea.) I've been hosting tourns for years now, and understand why certain things should or should not be banned.

While I may not be a name you know, my general knowings are heavily regarded as trust worthy, and in some places, law. I wouldn't make this list without some idea of what I'm doing.

Only time will tell.

Okay, so you won a couple of Mario Kart tournaments and your level 100 Mewtwo was a beast at your local gamestore growing up. You're into a larger community now and are an unknown.

If you wish to look at my credentials, you'd find that I'm a competitive gamer and have been for many years. I started heavily competiting with Halo 2 after loving Halo: CE and after enjoying playing games in small in-store tournaments and get togethers in other games. Halo 2 was a game in which I decided to become a media source, and I became a name-brand over the course of the games lifetime. If you were a competitive gamer, you knew me. I had over half a million viewers to my work on strategy and tournament function, three book deals offered, worked as a freelance writer for Major League Gaming, was flown to New York by MLG for the sole purpose of writing on smash, am a writer for Wifiwars.com which is a website operated by Jason, aka M3D of smashboards, who worked as the smash lead for MLG for a length of time. I am blessed to be aquainted with many of the elite members of the smash community, most especially the midwest as that is where I reside, and have travelled extensively for smash. With the exception of FC, I have never placed outside of the top 32 in a smash tournament, including my first MLG at St. Louis. I have logged countless hours on the topic of competitive gaming and have become a de facto source for both smashers and Halo players alike. I own and run www.overswarm.com, which focuses on strategy for both Halo and Smash. I have been a member of the back room for some time and have spent lengthy periods of time discussing the intricacies of Melee with smashers that have much more experience than you or I, and was part of the group that worked on the SBR standard ruleset.

Do I have a big e-***** too, now?

Despite any credentials you may post attempting to puff up your credibility, you are little more than a Melee player that did not reach the elite ranks who happened to get Brawl early. Your guesses and thoughts are no more right or wrong than would be Dylan_Tnga's (sorry DT) if he had bought the game early as well. It doesn't matter who you are or how much you play; you don't have any tournament records, experience, or observations with a large collection of skilled smashers. You have your friends sitting next to a modded wii and talking about how much better they are than people that haven't played the game. To make matters worse, you are openly criticizing any and all other sources of information and presenting yourself as an authority when you are the exact opposite. If I had to point to a poster that was looking for attention rather than attempting to help a community, my finger would point like a compass towards you.

 

[dmbrandon]

Dear dmbrandon,

Shut your elitist mouth. You know absolutely nothing about nothing, which is in and of itself deserving of an award--possibly the "Biggest Elitist ******* in the Universe" award.

You come out of nowhere, and spout all this non-sense like you are some sort of self appointed authority, when in fact you are just a noob he needs to not be a dumb ******* and wave his **** around on the internet.

tl;dr

You are not an authority on anything other than being a giant tool.

I bet ou feel better. Don't spam the thread without at least trying to be relevant.

Okay, so you won a couple of Mario Kart tournaments and your level 100 Mewtwo was a beast at your local gamestore growing up. You're into a larger community now and are an unknown.

If you wish to look at my credentials, you'd find that I'm a competitive gamer and have been for many years. I started heavily competiting with Halo 2 after loving Halo: CE and after enjoying playing games in small in-store tournaments and get togethers in other games. Halo 2 was a game in which I decided to become a media source, and I became a name-brand over the course of the games lifetime. If you were a competitive gamer, you knew me. I had over half a million viewers to my work on strategy and tournament function, three book deals offered, worked as a freelance writer for Major League Gaming, was flown to New York by MLG for the sole purpose of writing on smash, am a writer for Wifiwars.com which is a website operated by Jason, aka M3D of smashboards, who worked as the smash lead for MLG for a length of time. I am blessed to be aquainted with many of the elite members of the smash community, most especially the midwest as that is where I reside, and have travelled extensively for smash. With the exception of FC, I have never placed outside of the top 32 in a smash tournament, including my first MLG at St. Louis. I have logged countless hours on the topic of competitive gaming and have become a de facto source for both smashers and Halo players alike. I own and run www.overswarm.com, which focuses on strategy for both Halo and Smash. I have been a member of the back room for some time and have spent lengthy periods of time discussing the intricacies of Melee with smashers that have much more experience than you or I, and was part of the group that worked on the SBR standard ruleset.

Do I have a big e-***** too, now?

Despite any credentials you may post attempting to puff up your credibility, you are little more than a Melee player that did not reach the elite ranks who happened to get Brawl early. Your guesses and thoughts are no more right or wrong than would be Dylan_Tnga's (sorry DT) if he had bought the game early as well. It doesn't matter who you are or how much you play; you don't have any tournament records, experience, or observations with a large collection of skilled smashers. You have your friends sitting next to a modded wii and talking about how much better they are than people that haven't played the game. To make matters worse, you are openly criticizing any and all other sources of information and presenting yourself as an authority when you are the exact opposite. If I had to point to a poster that was looking for attention rather than attempting to help a community, my finger would point like a compass towards you.

If you know Halo, you should know Montage, as we're ranked. TheIncredible, Pistola, etc. All part of Montage before they got signed. We started them

As for me, I was ranked in THPS and won WCG in 2004, thanks. I've made more money in a day, then you've made in your life. (Video games respective) I don't like to namedrop, but hey, ya gotta do whatcha gotta d,

And we don't say we're better. We do say we know tournament play, and these stages are just plain unfair. IF you have SOLID reason for not banning any of the listed, then I oblige you. Otherwise, this WoT you have presented is just a stale attempt. I'm trying to help, but it's hard considering every joe shmoe who has seen a brawl vid has an opinion; an opinion solely based at trying to debunk me and look important.

I do respect your approach, however. Your arguement was well thought out, and while I may seem abrasive, I only try to defend my claims. It's hard, because like you said, many don't know me. So when people like Fonz and MookieRah post against me, I have to come strong. The voice has to be loud, to be heard to jaded ears. I apologize if I have offended you.

My melee preceedings, however, are a different story. I have a few big name wins. while I never won a TON of cash, i still made a decent name in my region. When I did play. I've only been playing again since brawl came out, and I'm pretty sure it's the Smash World Forums. Not the Melee world Forums. Making my claims stronger, considering melee records don't matter.

If you need further comparison: Justin Wong didn't play MvC. Yet, he's the most feared name in the sequel.

You don't need to play the older games, to be good at the new ones. That's what makes video games so great. People don't need to dedicate 20 years to their practice! They just have to be ready to adapt.

Me? I'm adapting.

 

[Overswarm]

I bet ou feel better. Don't spam the thread without at least trying to be relevant.



If you know Halo, you should know Montage, as we're ranked. TheIncredible, Pistola, etc. All part of Montage before they got signed. We started them

As for me, I was ranked in THPS and won WCG in 2004, thanks. I've made more money in a day, then you've made in your life. (Video games respective) I don't like to namedrop, but hey, ya gotta do whatcha gotta d,

And we don't say we're better. We do say we know tournament play, and these stages are just plain unfair. IF you have SOLID reason for not banning any of the listed, then I oblige you. Otherwise, this WoT you have presented is just a stale attempt. I'm trying to help, but it's hard considering every joe shmoe who has seen a brawl vid has an opinion; an opinion solely based at trying to debunk me and look important.

I do respect your approach, however. Your arguement was well thought out, and while I may seem abrasive, I only try to defend my claims. It's hard, because like you said, many don't know me. So when people like Fonz and MookieRah post against me, I have to come strong. The voice has to be loud, to be heard to jaded ears. I apologize if I have offended you.

My melee preceedings, however, are a different story. I have a few big name wins. while I never won a TON of cash, i still made a decent name in my region. When I did play. I've only been playing again since brawl came out, and I'm pretty sure it's the Smash World Forums. Not the Melee world Forums. Making my claims stronger, considering melee records don't matter.

If you need further comparison: Justin Wong didn't play MvC. Yet, he's the most feared name in the sequel.

You don't need to play the older games, to be good at the new ones. That's what makes video games so great. People don't need to dedicate 20 years to their practice! They just have to be ready to adapt.

Me? I'm adapting.

I don't have an opnion on what should be banned or not. I have guesses. You have an opinion on what should be banned in 2 weeks of play time.

I don't think I need to be any clearer than that.

 

[dmbrandon]

I don't have an opnion on what should be banned or not. I have guesses. You have an opinion on what should be banned in 2 weeks of play time.

I don't think I need to be any clearer than that.

It doesn't take a year to realize tethers can't recover. Nor does it to see that wallshining is too easy, and to broken.

 

[Sliq]

It doesn't take a year to realize tethers can't recover. Nor does it to see that wallshining is too easy, and to broken.

I think Jigglypuff should be banned. I mean, come on, six jumps. SIX!? That's so broken, and if you can't see why it is broken, then you are obviously not as awesome as me and my long list of self fellatio.

 

[Drephen]

It doesn't take a year to realize tethers can't recover. Nor does it to see that wallshining is too easy, and to broken.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

The question bears! If you were in a tournament, would you want to rely on running away from wallshining as a strategy? It changes the game, and that's what we need to avoid! Why bad Princess peaches castle? Because it changes the way the game is played. It turns from a fight, to a chase, and imo, we need to go the opposite way. Focus on real skill.

And it's been 2 weeks. ^_~

Everything "changes the game," it's by how much that matters, and not everyone is likely to agree on that point, nor on what the game "should be." You even say yourself "imo we need need etc etc."

It's one thing to point out something that you can suspect will later come to be banned, but we won't KNOW until we test it in the TOURNAMENT SCENE. We don't ban things just becuase a few people who got the game early said so. Tourneys are a completely other beast. If you want to give us big evidence that it should be banned, go win a non-local tournament with it.