Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[Keitaro]

I still want Pokemon Stadium 1 on random. It's my favorite stage

Every single person I play at DM's tourney will have to be counterpicked with Poke Stadium by me. Expect it.

 

[Jihnsius]

It's the same reason people don't take candy from little kids or steal multivitamins from the health food store, because nobody gives a crap if you can press A for 8 minutes, even though candy is rewarding, and multivitamins are healthy, there just isn't any social reinforcement and no sense of satisfaction.

While I agree with the remainder of the post, I disagree with this bit. I take a lot of satisfaction in thieving from children.

Also, completely unrelated, imagine how amazing the game would be if Pokéfloats was random and was the only tournament legal stage.

 

[Egret]

im tired of hearing stage bans it makes me never want to be in a tourny. smash brothers best moments i have experianced are the random moments. if you want a plain fighing game get old school mortal kombat or street fighter if you want fun easy going random moments play a game where snake can shoot a pikachu with a rocket launcher. enough said

Why should tournament matches be forced to adhere to your vision of "easy going random moments" instead of actually offering balanced play?

 

[Dacvak]

Does anyone have a full stage select screenshot? I've been trying desperately to find one and simply can't.

~Dac

 

[Jihnsius]

Does anyone have a full stage select screenshot? I've been trying desperately to find one and simply can't.

~Dac

http://smashwiki.com/wiki/Stages
Scroll to the bottom for a list, most of which are pictured after you follow the respective links.

 

[Cless]

lol
6. if a level isnt final destination or a flat level its banned
7 . if a level has more than 2 platforms its banned

im tired of hearing stage bans it makes me never want to be in a tourny. smash brothers best moments i have experianced are the random moments. if you want a plain fighing game get old school mortal kombat or street fighter if you want fun easy going random moments play a game where snake can shoot a pikachu with a rocket launcher. enough said

Umm, only like 5 or 6 stages are outright banned, and they still can be played on if both players agree.

A tournament is not a place for too much randomness. You don't enter a karate tournament and want to have to worry about flying bricks all the time.

Also, Mortal Kombat is a terrible fighter. Fun game, but terrible fighter.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

^^^ @ Cless

QFT

 

[Milln]

What's the story on infinites causing stage bans, now? I heard that level nine computers are getting out of down-b Wall Shine Spam and that you can DI out of Rapid A-against-the-walls ? Truth? False?

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

What did the runner accomplish? Are you daft? They're accomplishing bill paying, and they're winning money from this.

If I told you, you could win 1,000 dollars, just for running in a circle, I'm cancered heart serious that you'd jump on that faster than a fat kid on Jessica Alba.

Yes, but the objective of a Smash game is to defeat your opponent. Nobody runs a tournament saying "Ok, everyone run away, and you'll win". So who would tell you that you could win $1,000 just for running in a circle (by playing Smash)?

It's a lot like the NBA before the shot clock was introduced. Before there was a shot clock, players would sometimes run around for several minutes dribbling and passing without taking a shot. Scores were sometimes as low as 21-18. As dumb as it sounds, yes it did happen.

We don't want that to happen again, do we?

Well, a score would still be decided based on skill. Only in Smash you don't have to deal with 'ball hogs'.

 

[Cless]

Yes, but the objective of a Smash game is to defeat your opponent. Nobody runs a tournament saying "Ok, everyone run away, and you'll win". So who would tell you that you could win $1,000 just for running in a circle (by playing Smash)?

In a perfect world, that'd be great, but people are restricted by things like life and time. Tournaments can't run for days. You're assuming that the Fox would run away the entire time and stall the match forever. They wouldn't if there was no time limit, but what if the Fox just took pot shots, since we're assuming no time limit here, until you were at 200 and then just up smashed you? Fox player is still winning the game, but that would take forever.

This is why there are time limits. To limit the amount of time a tournament can take, and since ties can occur when there is a time factor involved, you have to make rules for that.

 

[dmbrandon]

What's the story on infinites causing stage bans, now? I heard that level nine computers are getting out of down-b Wall Shine Spam and that you can DI out of Rapid A-against-the-walls ? Truth? False?

Until I see proof it's not broken, my tourns will ban walls.

Umm, only like 5 or 6 stages are outright banned, and they still can be played on if both players agree.

A tournament is not a place for too much randomness. You don't enter a karate tournament and want to have to worry about flying bricks all the time.

Also, Mortal Kombat is a terrible fighter. Fun game, but terrible fighter.

Any stage can be played if people agree. I don't mind, but I'll hear no johns afterwards.

Mortal Kombat was fun in 1994.

In a perfect world, that'd be great, but people are restricted by things like life and time. Tournaments can't run for days. You're assuming that the Fox would run away the entire time and stall the match forever. They wouldn't if there was no time limit, but what if the Fox just took pot shots, since we're assuming no time limit here, until you were at 200 and then just up smashed you? Fox player is still winning the game, but that would take forever.

This is why there are time limits. To limit the amount of time a tournament can take, and since ties can occur when there is a time factor involved, you have to make rules for that.

His name is DarkPaladin of Chaos... Stop feeding him this stuff. He has post 1000 posts, if he doesn't understand, that's his fault for being blind.

Ignorance is bliss, until you need to defend it.

 

[Ryan-K]

Yes, but the objective of a Smash game is to defeat your opponent. Nobody runs a tournament saying "Ok, everyone run away, and you'll win". So who would tell you that you could win $1,000 just for running in a circle (by playing Smash)?

'.[/FONT]

They run away because they DO win.

If fox hits you with a laser on hyrule then you have to run after him for the stock limit and you win by percent or whatever.

Without a stock time limit the game would never end or close to it.

I have seen noob melee matches with like falco go for over 10 minutes now imagine that with people who know what they are doing.

Rules are there to protect fun and noone goes to a smash tournament to play laser tag. Hyrule being allowed would pretty much force everyone to pick fox so there would be no tourney scene to speak of really.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

His name is DarkPaladin of Chaos... Stop feeding him this stuff. He has post 1000 posts, if he doesn't understand, that's his fault for being blind.

What do my name and post count have to do with anything...? And I was actually going to say I didn't think about the 'taking potshots' thing. Way to be an *******.

 

[popo12]

Until I see proof it's not broken, my tourns will ban walls.

How will you know for sure that it is broken then? The best way to see whether or not it's broken is to see it in tournament play, by banning it so soon you lose your best source of proof.

 

[joenopride]

How will you know for sure that it is broken then? The best way to see whether or not it's broken is to see it in tournament play, by banning it so soon you lose your best source of proof.

Hah! Logicpwned.

 

[Overswarm]

How will you know for sure that it is broken then? The best way to see whether or not it's broken is to see it in tournament play, by banning it so soon you lose your best source of proof.

You have two posts, and your second post was completely and totally....

AWESOME!!!!!!!!

Really, anyone that bans anything other than the most obvious things before having conclusive tournament proof from multiple tournaments and multiple games.... that's just plain old bad competition.


Don't try to tell me something as odd as walls is obvious. Obvious is a stage that is so small that you die at 20%. Obvious is a stage so large that faster characters could run away nonstop without being hurt. Obvious is a stage with hazards that kill you in one hit that cannot be avoided.

Past that, not much is obvious. Even then, some stages that fit the above categories have a possibility of working out.

 

[verditude]

EDIT: Nvm, need to read 1st post better

 

[Milln]

Now i'm starting to go with the ones that are saying test more. Even though you do have the game and many in your crew, do, it does take a wide variety of mindsets and thought patterns (not to mention character choices) to thoroughly test many of the complaints, especially Wall Shine Spam and Rapid A Wall Infinites.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Why is it so hard for two people with Brawl to sit down, pick a walled stage and test this crap?

Just...jab / shine them against the wall and see if they can DI out or not! gosh

 

[Hitaku]

Why is it so hard for two people with Brawl to sit down, pick a walled stage and test this crap?

Just...jab / shine them against the wall and see if they can DI out or not! gosh

I tried to DI out and failed. Please keep in mind I am not the best with smash DI. To be honest, I'm not even sure smash DI has even been confirmed to be in.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone else has commented on this, but past 155% (really its 150%-157%, not sure on the exact number) you are knocked away from the wall. So its not an infinite, its 0%-155% damage.

 

[Artisan]

I'll withold comment on the others until I've actually seen them myself, but I'm confused as to the reasoning regarding tether recoveries on The Summit.

You say there are no ledges on the bottom stage, so they lose their recovery. But there is water there, so I don't understand why it's such a disadvantage, also considering what I've heard about people edgeguarding the tether recoveries. From my understanding, it doesn't seem any different in that sense from Great Sea.

Edit: Never mind, I misunderstood "bottom area" as meaning the part of the stage where the stage is at the bottom of the mountain. If there are no ledges at all anywhere, I at least understand what you're saying now.

 

[HugS]

DMbrandon, please address Hyuga's post. Don't just PM him a response. He made many good points that should be responded to.

 

[CT Chia]

wow hyugas post is pretty genius lol. either way, iv played the game myself a bit and will soon get a lot more time hands on with it. i plan on making a list of neutrals and counterpicks for a tourney my crew is running soon, but i plan to have that list with complete reason for my choices. some of dm's stage ban choices though and allowing some to be legal just confuse me.

 

[Jem.]

Melee Poke'mon Stadium shouldn't be banned.

 

[Ornj]

seriously you responses to Hyugas posts is almost insulting

 

[dmbrandon]

DMbrandon, please address Hyuga's post. Don't just PM him a response. He made many good points that should be responded to.

wow hyugas post is pretty genius lol. either way, iv played the game myself a bit and will soon get a lot more time hands on with it. i plan on making a list of neutrals and counterpicks for a tourney my crew is running soon, but i plan to have that list with complete reason for my choices. some of dm's stage ban choices though and allowing some to be legal just confuse me.

seriously you responses to Hyugas posts is almost insulting

1. Stay on topic, where I choose to reply is of my own accord.

2. The last post I see that he's made is off-topic, and will be ignored.

Continue discussion! Those still around: Pokemon stadium Vs Delfino Plaza for a Neutral stage!!

What we know: Both stages have walls. Kanto's are more Prominent, and last longer, while delfino has the changing level thing going on. If you haven't played, please don't respond to this post with a stone decision.

 

[Zenjamin]

changing levels are not a big deal as they are scripted.
def plaza>PK stadium just because PK has more/longer walls

 

[dmbrandon]

changing levels are not a big deal as they are scripted.
def plaza>PK stadium just because PK has more/longer walls

Right, but some characters caught off guard could SD when the level rises!

I'd rather DP (lolz), but it's not solely up to me, ya know? My first tourn is this weekend, and I think I'm gonna take a poll... Unless any of you guys have solid proof.

btw, Lost Oddesey is great! :D

 

[Endless Nightmares]

If wall infinites (and there are at least four than I know of already -_-) cannot be broken out of, do you think it's better to ban the walled stages, or the wall infinites themselves?

In Melee, it wasn't really a problem because only one character had a wall infinite, and it was quite difficult to pull off. Also, the only legal stage with a significant wall was PStadium. But now, there are plenty of walls and plenty of characters with easy wall infinites.

I just don't know what to think.

 

[brawlpro]

Think this, "brawl will be just as balanced as melee"

. . . . . .. ... .......

 

[popo12]

I have a couple of questions about Shadow Moses. Exactly how many infinites won't break the wall? I've seen Falco's do it in a video, but I know you said that Pikachu's wouldn't. Also, how do you use the walls to camp?

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Lmfao @ some random guy trying to be important.

Lmfoa @ Brawl noobs getting upset that stages get banned.

I'm going to love tearing *** online.

 

[Zenjamin]

Right, but some characters caught off guard could SD when the level rises!

I'd rather DP (lolz), but it's not solely up to me, ya know? My first tourn is this weekend, and I think I'm gonna take a poll... Unless any of you guys have solid proof.

btw, Lost Oddesey is great! :D

well, thats their fault. the LV shouldnt be able to mindgame you like that when it does the same thing every time.

 

[HugS]

I am a terrible Fox player. Always have been. And If I can catch extremely good players in an infinite with 30 seconds, the IMO the stage should be banned.

Who are these extremely good players? I'm sure we've had a vast amount of Brawl tournaments proving these players are extremely talented. That's the only way you could be justified in making such ridiculous claims. Right?

Imagine a world where various tournaments would decide who is good and who isn't. In this magical world, we could decide if something is ban worthy. The good players would give us a better indication of what rules should be in effect. Your pre-release matches vs your neighborhood heroes are not the makings of good tournament rules.

Instead of coming off so much as a frustrated melee failure, why don't you address the issues being brought up by the very people who make decisions on what rules future tournaments will follow? You seem like you'd want your rules to be adopted at the tournaments you go to, so then why ignore their concerns?

 

[Overswarm]

Just in case the new Brawl members haven't noticed or not, Hugs, myself, and just about everyone else that has posted against dmbrandon's topic theme of "this way is right because I'm awesomer than you" are all part of the smash back room.

The smash back room is the group that generally decides things such as tier lists, standard rulesets (which involves stages heavily), and other such isuses.

dmbrandon is not part of that group, and as such his list is no more or less accurate or important than if any other random brawl member had made a post. His reasoning and logic behind his points are not backed up by tournament play and thus are completely irrelevant. As he has nothing but circumstantial evidence against his friends... it doesn't matter what he says as it is only opinion. Everyone will read someone's opinion and either like it or not, and that's fine for him to post like that; just don't think this is a definite list or that he has any sort of authority.



Discussion continue.

 

[mindlesstom]

Just in case the new Brawl members haven't noticed or not, Hugs, myself, and just about everyone else that has posted against dmbrandon's topic theme of "this way is right because I'm awesomer than you" are all part of the smash back room.

The smash back room is the group that generally decides things such as tier lists, standard rulesets (which involves stages heavily), and other such isuses.

dmbrandon is not part of that group, and as such his list is no more or less accurate or important than if any other random brawl member had made a post. His reasoning and logic behind his points are not backed up by tournament play and thus are completely irrelevant. As he has nothing but circumstantial evidence against his friends... it doesn't matter what he says as it is only opinion. Everyone will read someone's opinion and either like it or not, and that's fine for him to post like that; just don't think this is a definite list or that he has any sort of authority.



Discussion continue.

This is the third time you've posted something like this in this thread alone. You are helping nothing besides furthering your own 'status.' Not one time has someone backed you up, or thought you were helpful, informative, or useful in anyway. If you don't approve of this thread, mind you, the rest of SWF is at your disposal. Post reported, please either discuss the topic, or remove yourself from it. What you're doing is trolling, and is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Back on topic: This weekends tournament will run with Delfino, with Kanto1 as a Counter Pick. Any character with a rapid can catch someone in the tree, or the construction zone with no hope of escaping.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

Lmfoa @ Brawl noobs getting upset that stages get banned.

I was only asking... If you're referring to me, because I brought up the Temple, simply because I don't play competitively.

 

[mindlesstom]

I was only asking... If you're referring to me, because I brought up the Temple, simply because I don't play competitively.

That's fine, but this isn't really the thread to ask why melee stages were banned. There's pages upon pages upon pages of articles in the melee section. People don't like explaining things 200 times, especially if the topic is five years old.

As you not playing competitively, maybe you should jump into the scene? go to a local tourn, and feel it out.

 

[Joshu]

El oh el. The only reason he brings up the Back Room thing is because people that are in the backroom have proven themselves as people who are not only good at Melee, but can judge what is and isn't fair with an intelligent and open mind, among other things. We're all people who have taken the time to show that we have what it takes to try to make the game as fair and balanced as possible. Montage, however, has just come into these forums claiming that they're the best evar because "ZOMG WE PLAYED FOR 80 HOURS IN MY BASEMENT WE HAVE MASTERED ALL ASPECTS OF THE GAME."

Really, do you get why someone like Overswarm is in the back room while you're not? It's because he takes the time to analyze things fairly while you all just come in and shout WE HAVE THE GAME AND PLAYTIME BAN BAN BAN. And for all of your extensive playtesting, you certainly don't know much. Take this, for instance:

At one point, you'll have to take shelter under a small, metroid-esque tenty thing. You have to fight to keep people out, in hopes to gain a stock advantage. In teams, there's not enough room for two people to be under, and one attack to keep the others out. You'll kill your teammates much too much. IMO it's a fair singles stage, because that lava wave will only happen every 3-4minutes.

Have you ever even played this stage?? The shelter is pointless, you can jump and dodge the lava with barely any effort at all. You can even grab a ledge and avoid the lava with extreme ease. You would think after all your testing you would have found this.

If you want to help the Brawl community, fine. But coming in here and acting like you're the Gods of Brawl because you've played it a lot doesn't do anything. If you'd get your heads out of your ***** and actually listen to the intelligent posters in this swarm like Overswarm, Hyuga, Hugs, and others, you'd realize this. You can't possibly grasp every aspect of what's broken and what's not in this game after playing it for less than a month. The only way to do this is to see how everything works out in tournament play over longer periods of time. If you guys want to help, fine, a topic with opinions like this is great. But until you're actually willing to listen to suggestions and acknowledge that you don't understand everything, all of your points are moot.

 

[Zenjamin]

i would just like to say that to my knowledge, brandon has never claimed these stages to be anything other then opinion and speculation as to what the final banned stages will be.

hes just stating his opinion, which he tested out as much as one person can, and is using this to make a prediction about the future, and stage his own tournament with rules instead of waiting 4 months or so for the BRoomers to come up with something official.

seems to me people are putting words in brandons mouth.


dont agree with a stage ban? fine explain why, he likes that, taht is the point of this thread.
but repeating, "these is not official! you have no authoriri!" is rather pointless, its not the direction he was going.


... at least that is how ive seen it.



personally, I love this list, I host tournaments in a small town where no BRoomers will witness, out here, the cheap **** that happens on spear piller, ect... will not benifit the smash community.
So id rather have some sort of guide to follow when cold hard cash is involved... there is no reason for competive players like us to go with nothing at all. when the BRoomers come out with something else months from now, fine.
but untill "extensive experence" comes along, ill just have to roll with logic....